How did the new KTM chassis issue come out of nowhere?

hartebreak
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hartebreak
Ok, obviously there is lots of talk about the KTM/Husky chassis issues. What I find odd is how Coop talked about riding the new bike like 2 or 3 years ago and was chomping at the bit for the new bike to be released. He talked about how amazing it was and how much an improvement over the outgoing model it was.

So what happened? Did the bike Coop ride way back then change a ton by the time it made it into production? Did maybe the Covid supply chain issues cause the KTM group to maybe compromise on the final production model? I just don't understand how the bike can go from such an amazing improvement and then immediately turn into a shitbox as soon as they start racing it. I know nothing compares to racing, but surely KTM has had 1000's of laps on the bike with test riders before it ever made it to A1, so how were they so far off?
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Bradshaw Fan
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Bradshaw Fan 4/8/2022 5:41pm
4/8/2022 5:41pm
Maybe it’s not the bike? Mookie and Marv seem to be doing pretty well on it. All last year Tomac didn’t like his hydro clutch and he still won races. Just a thought.
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crc245
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crc245 4/8/2022 5:54pm
4/8/2022 5:54pm
Sometimes there are big differences between pre-production and actual production models (remember the 97’ CR250 debacle)...

My guess is that moto history will footnote a few things from this year: Never leave Baker’s Factory without good reason; Never introduce a new model with ongoing supply chain issues due to wild global circumstances; Keeping riders happy and allowing them freedom to make bigger bike decisions isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Also to note - The new model is better for a majority of us who buy our own bikes. KTM may have just had the previous generation that dialed in for certain professional racers...
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/8/2022 6:33pm
4/8/2022 6:33pm
Not everyone likes the same setup. Just because one or two guys go great on it doesn’t mean another guy can’t struggle to get comfortable. As far as Cooper liking the bike in preproduction testing, think he’s going to say it sucks while he’s employed by KTM?
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ajk423
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ajk423 4/8/2022 7:41pm
4/8/2022 7:41pm
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying him millions to ride sucks.
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Bradshaw Fan
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Bradshaw Fan 4/8/2022 9:34pm
4/8/2022 9:34pm
Being able to adapt to a new motorcycle is part of being a fast talented rider. The 2010 YZ was slated as the worst, but Js7 still won on it. The current YZ 450 was the blue pig. The blue pig which is putting the pumpkin to shame. It's not the bike. Some riders are not able to adapt and overcome.
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tk2stroke
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tk2stroke 4/8/2022 10:41pm
4/8/2022 10:41pm
Coop looks a little more porky this year than in the past, the bike looks just fine for everyone else. Blaming the bike is often the go-to move by former champs who have too much hubris to admit it could be them.
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/8/2022 10:44pm
4/8/2022 10:44pm
ajk423 wrote:
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying...
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying him millions to ride sucks.
I think the total opposite. Although you won’t hear the words “it sucks” we do hear, “we’re struggling with finding a set-up”
tek14
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tek14 4/8/2022 10:57pm
4/8/2022 10:57pm
If you listen Dirk Gruebel talk about new chassis Tom Vialle and so on its clear that they got bike late and havent got time to test new gen enough. I think Herlings will be in same boat when he starts to race. Yes its good bike but old bike had 5-6 development in different tracks and conditions.

They also build flex on rear shockmount that sure wasnt tested enough with fast riders before season started and gave problems for whoops setup. They havent talk if they made stiffeners to connect upper rear mount to chassis and you cant really see because tank and plastics are hiding that part but they said that they found "something" to fix chassis wobbling and that will make it similar to old chassis.
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Viking782
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Viking782 4/9/2022 3:19am
4/9/2022 3:19am
The “best summer ever” guy that likes to show up on the starting line with an un-lit cigarette in his mouth? Yeah, seems like a long term winner for sure!
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reded301
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reded301 4/9/2022 4:32am
4/9/2022 4:32am
Viking782 wrote:
The “best summer ever” guy that likes to show up on the starting line with an un-lit cigarette in his mouth? Yeah, seems like a long...
The “best summer ever” guy that likes to show up on the starting line with an un-lit cigarette in his mouth? Yeah, seems like a long term winner for sure!
If only my racing career had been as shitty as his…🤔
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 5:09am
4/9/2022 5:09am
Bradshaw Fan wrote:
Being able to adapt to a new motorcycle is part of being a fast talented rider. The 2010 YZ was slated as the worst, but Js7...
Being able to adapt to a new motorcycle is part of being a fast talented rider. The 2010 YZ was slated as the worst, but Js7 still won on it. The current YZ 450 was the blue pig. The blue pig which is putting the pumpkin to shame. It's not the bike. Some riders are not able to adapt and overcome.
There are a ton of multi time champions then who apparently aren’t fast or talented if they all should adapt to setups they aren’t comfortable with. Why you think Eli went to Yamaha this year for less money? At the lever they are at the smallest thing could cause an issue. I mean I bet every KTM factory rider has his footpegs located in a different spot than the other, and that’s different than stock….by a few millimeters.
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ajk423
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ajk423 4/9/2022 6:08am
4/9/2022 6:08am Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 6:10am
ajk423 wrote:
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying...
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying him millions to ride sucks.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I think the total opposite. Although you won’t hear the words “it sucks” we do hear, “we’re struggling with finding a set-up”
We hear that everytime a top guy doesn't win a race though. But even if the bike sucks and they do win or podium we don't hear them say "this was a very difficult win or podium for me, the bike was impossible to set up, I did this on skill alone."
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 4/9/2022 6:38am
4/9/2022 6:38am
When the bike doesn't work, it's a problem of physics.

When Webbs bike works and he wins, its an act of god.
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mx317
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mx317 4/9/2022 7:04am
4/9/2022 7:04am
tek14 wrote:
If you listen Dirk Gruebel talk about new chassis Tom Vialle and so on its clear that they got bike late and havent got time to...
If you listen Dirk Gruebel talk about new chassis Tom Vialle and so on its clear that they got bike late and havent got time to test new gen enough. I think Herlings will be in same boat when he starts to race. Yes its good bike but old bike had 5-6 development in different tracks and conditions.

They also build flex on rear shockmount that sure wasnt tested enough with fast riders before season started and gave problems for whoops setup. They havent talk if they made stiffeners to connect upper rear mount to chassis and you cant really see because tank and plastics are hiding that part but they said that they found "something" to fix chassis wobbling and that will make it similar to old chassis.
And adding a brace to the top shock mount would be perfectly legal even in AMA racing. Last year they added the brace on the front down tubes to change flex.
RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 9:22am
4/9/2022 9:22am
ajk423 wrote:
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying...
Or you can NEVER take a factory riders word for how good a bike is. He isn't going to say the bike his team that's paying him millions to ride sucks.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I think the total opposite. Although you won’t hear the words “it sucks” we do hear, “we’re struggling with finding a set-up”
ajk423 wrote:
We hear that everytime a top guy doesn't win a race though. But even if the bike sucks and they do win or podium we don't...
We hear that everytime a top guy doesn't win a race though. But even if the bike sucks and they do win or podium we don't hear them say "this was a very difficult win or podium for me, the bike was impossible to set up, I did this on skill alone."
A bike doesn’t have to suck to be the difference between first and third or even fifth. All it needs to be is a tiny bit off. Look at Eli’s starts now which apparently involves a cable clutch vs hydraulic. You’d think an all-timer would figure out how to start with a hydraulic with practicing every day but it is such a small difference that makes a big impact. That little extra feel, even if it’s mental, can be the difference.
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Jdawggg
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Jdawggg 4/10/2022 7:49am
4/10/2022 7:49am
So Prado won last weekend.. Marv won last night..Just saying
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Mr. Info
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Mr. Info 4/11/2022 5:54pm
4/11/2022 5:54pm
I heard from a voice in the sky that the majority of the testing involved outdoor and when released they were behind on SX platform. I think they might have felt it would transfer into SX without any major issues and now the setups are coming around. But you know those voices most of the time are just in the head.
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UpTiTe 4/11/2022 6:26pm
4/11/2022 6:26pm
Jdawggg wrote:
So Prado won last weekend.. Marv won last night..Just saying
Do you really think Prado is on the same frame?

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Thisusernameisavailable 4/11/2022 9:57pm
4/11/2022 9:57pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I think the total opposite. Although you won’t hear the words “it sucks” we do hear, “we’re struggling with finding a set-up”
ajk423 wrote:
We hear that everytime a top guy doesn't win a race though. But even if the bike sucks and they do win or podium we don't...
We hear that everytime a top guy doesn't win a race though. But even if the bike sucks and they do win or podium we don't hear them say "this was a very difficult win or podium for me, the bike was impossible to set up, I did this on skill alone."
RaceFace58 wrote:
A bike doesn’t have to suck to be the difference between first and third or even fifth. All it needs to be is a tiny bit...
A bike doesn’t have to suck to be the difference between first and third or even fifth. All it needs to be is a tiny bit off. Look at Eli’s starts now which apparently involves a cable clutch vs hydraulic. You’d think an all-timer would figure out how to start with a hydraulic with practicing every day but it is such a small difference that makes a big impact. That little extra feel, even if it’s mental, can be the difference.
I don’t remember Eli being this consistently good at starts on the earlier cable clutched KXF.

I don’t believe the cable or hydraulic is making the difference on his starts.

During the race- maybe. But the starts? I don’t believe it.
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Ace Dudemeister 4/15/2022 10:14am
4/15/2022 10:14am
crc245 wrote:
Sometimes there are big differences between pre-production and actual production models (remember the 97’ CR250 debacle)... My guess is that moto history will footnote a few...
Sometimes there are big differences between pre-production and actual production models (remember the 97’ CR250 debacle)...

My guess is that moto history will footnote a few things from this year: Never leave Baker’s Factory without good reason; Never introduce a new model with ongoing supply chain issues due to wild global circumstances; Keeping riders happy and allowing them freedom to make bigger bike decisions isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Also to note - The new model is better for a majority of us who buy our own bikes. KTM may have just had the previous generation that dialed in for certain professional racers...
There are no supply, manufacturing, or food shortages due to global issues.

These are political decisions to force Americans to accept socialism. They can be stopped immediately and the “problems” can be quickly reversed.
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Brent
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Brent 4/15/2022 10:36am
4/15/2022 10:36am Edited Date/Time 4/15/2022 10:39am
Mr. Info wrote:
I heard from a voice in the sky that the majority of the testing involved outdoor and when released they were behind on SX platform. I...
I heard from a voice in the sky that the majority of the testing involved outdoor and when released they were behind on SX platform. I think they might have felt it would transfer into SX without any major issues and now the setups are coming around. But you know those voices most of the time are just in the head.
Based on my amateur clueless observations I think you are spot on.

Almost every time I went to Fox or Glen Helen in 2021, Kurt, Mo, and the other guys were testing the new gen bike on on the outdoor tracks.

Now this could be bullshit, but I was told that the KTM Pro team didn't get final version to test on a real supercross track until Late October or Early November, and that they had a very hard time with the bike when they rode on the RD field test tracks at the KTM compound in Murrieta.

What does this mean for the average guy? nothing.

My old ass got to ride the new 450, and its pretty good in stock trim. Would I switch from my 2022 KTM right now? Hell no, because the new bike is too green and doesn't have parts available yet.

Next year may be the best time to upgrade for the average racer.
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