STARK FUTURE VARG - An Electric Bike that is Faster and Lighter than a 450?

PJRAUS wrote:

Im not concerned if the company should fail in 3 to 5 years, if I should get stuck with a bike where there is no longer...

Im not concerned if the company should fail in 3 to 5 years, if I should get stuck with a bike where there is no longer any parts available from the oem..it wont bother me. I have rarely ever bought oem parts for my bikes, the high wear items are always covered by the aftermarket anyway.
This bike being electric...I dont anticipate there being anything much that I would ever need from stark...no pistons, cam chains engine bearings..engine anything really..sure if the cpu failed or something
Im not really expecting the big manufacturers to rush into this market..I think it will remain somewhat a niche market...I cant think of a reason why I would want to update the varg within 5 years...maybe ever..its gonna make more power than I need , gonna be easy and cheap as can be to maintain...if the chassis handles well..why bother? Maybe if someone makes a bike 30 pounds lighter then I would probably be interested...I believe a lot of people will be like me..they will just get a bike and keep it for years...that would be a dead end market for the majors but probably suit a company like stark

Titan1 wrote:

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies...

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies aren’t going to start making for the Stark because it’s such a small niche company (relatively few aftermarket companies make parts for Sherco’s and Beta’s right now…how many less will try and make stuff for an even smaller brand? I say very few) so if the company folds (like Alta) you are left with no parts for your bike.

You can take that risk of you want…hard pass from me. Not a knock on the ebike technology (I’m a huge fan of it) and really not even a knock to Stark…just one (the main) reason I’m not buying one.

PJRAUS wrote:

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components...

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components as well as hubs , rims and spokes..
In all likelihood, Stark is probably manufacturing relatively little of the bike in house..
They have probably dropped the coin already on making injection moulds for the plastic on their single model..possibly having an outside supplier produce the plastics with these moulds..
I frankly dont see any problems other than battery, motor and cpu which may or may not be made in house by Stark.
If they should go broke and disappear in 5 years..I find it highly unlikely that I wont be able to get common wear parts.
It remains to be seen...once the media gets a chance to examine them close up.. what will be on the bikes?
Nissin brake parts ? Brembo? Galfer? We already know its Kayaba suspension.. what about bearings? So Stark are gonna use exclusive Stark by design and manufacture bearings and seals in the linkage and head stem..or maybe go to SKF or someone to source bearings and seals , already in production that suit their needs?

I mean really....do people really think that Stark are making evey single component of this bike in house?

I think you are going to have to think a little harder to find a legitimate reason as to why people like me are taking a risk buying the bike...because the ones you are putting forward seem ridiculous to me..

If you dont want an electric bike ..fine..you have your reasons...but I seriously doubt that the fears held by some on this forum , namely that this bike heralds the end of motocross as we know it..have any basis in reality
Also ,I keep seeing , time and time again people saying " if I cant get 80 miles out of it on a trail ride..""
I thought vital mx meant motocross? Why so many here wanting to judge motocross specific bikes by their usefulness as a trail bike? Its a motocross forum...go find an offroad forum...this is a motocross forum...

Titan1 wrote:

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies...

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies aren’t going to start making for the Stark because it’s such a small niche company (relatively few aftermarket companies make parts for Sherco’s and Beta’s right now…how many less will try and make stuff for an even smaller brand? I say very few) so if the company folds (like Alta) you are left with no parts for your bike.

You can take that risk of you want…hard pass from me. Not a knock on the ebike technology (I’m a huge fan of it) and really not even a knock to Stark…just one (the main) reason I’m not buying one.

PJRAUS wrote:

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components...

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components as well as hubs , rims and spokes..
In all likelihood, Stark is probably manufacturing relatively little of the bike in house..
They have probably dropped the coin already on making injection moulds for the plastic on their single model..possibly having an outside supplier produce the plastics with these moulds..
I frankly dont see any problems other than battery, motor and cpu which may or may not be made in house by Stark.
If they should go broke and disappear in 5 years..I find it highly unlikely that I wont be able to get common wear parts.
It remains to be seen...once the media gets a chance to examine them close up.. what will be on the bikes?
Nissin brake parts ? Brembo? Galfer? We already know its Kayaba suspension.. what about bearings? So Stark are gonna use exclusive Stark by design and manufacture bearings and seals in the linkage and head stem..or maybe go to SKF or someone to source bearings and seals , already in production that suit their needs?

I mean really....do people really think that Stark are making evey single component of this bike in house?

I think you are going to have to think a little harder to find a legitimate reason as to why people like me are taking a risk buying the bike...because the ones you are putting forward seem ridiculous to me..

If you dont want an electric bike ..fine..you have your reasons...but I seriously doubt that the fears held by some on this forum , namely that this bike heralds the end of motocross as we know it..have any basis in reality
Also ,I keep seeing , time and time again people saying " if I cant get 80 miles out of it on a trail ride..""
I thought vital mx meant motocross? Why so many here wanting to judge motocross specific bikes by their usefulness as a trail bike? Its a motocross forum...go find an offroad forum...this is a motocross forum...

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

PJRAUS wrote:

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components...

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components as well as hubs , rims and spokes..
In all likelihood, Stark is probably manufacturing relatively little of the bike in house..
They have probably dropped the coin already on making injection moulds for the plastic on their single model..possibly having an outside supplier produce the plastics with these moulds..
I frankly dont see any problems other than battery, motor and cpu which may or may not be made in house by Stark.
If they should go broke and disappear in 5 years..I find it highly unlikely that I wont be able to get common wear parts.
It remains to be seen...once the media gets a chance to examine them close up.. what will be on the bikes?
Nissin brake parts ? Brembo? Galfer? We already know its Kayaba suspension.. what about bearings? So Stark are gonna use exclusive Stark by design and manufacture bearings and seals in the linkage and head stem..or maybe go to SKF or someone to source bearings and seals , already in production that suit their needs?

I mean really....do people really think that Stark are making evey single component of this bike in house?

I think you are going to have to think a little harder to find a legitimate reason as to why people like me are taking a risk buying the bike...because the ones you are putting forward seem ridiculous to me..

If you dont want an electric bike ..fine..you have your reasons...but I seriously doubt that the fears held by some on this forum , namely that this bike heralds the end of motocross as we know it..have any basis in reality
Also ,I keep seeing , time and time again people saying " if I cant get 80 miles out of it on a trail ride..""
I thought vital mx meant motocross? Why so many here wanting to judge motocross specific bikes by their usefulness as a trail bike? Its a motocross forum...go find an offroad forum...this is a motocross forum...

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

#434 wrote:

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching...

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching Brembo brakes and standard bearings and stuff like that. Sure, if they go out of business and if motor or the battery or the electronics fail you habe a problem. However, those things are not parts that wear out (battery looses capacity over time, but very slowly).
I mean completely new products are always for the brave that embrace new tech. Doesn’t matter if it comes from an established company or not.

Titan1 wrote:

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies...

So you don’t think you might need plastics, bearings, rotors, chains, sprockets, and a whole list of other wear parts that I’m confident the “aftermarket” companies aren’t going to start making for the Stark because it’s such a small niche company (relatively few aftermarket companies make parts for Sherco’s and Beta’s right now…how many less will try and make stuff for an even smaller brand? I say very few) so if the company folds (like Alta) you are left with no parts for your bike.

You can take that risk of you want…hard pass from me. Not a knock on the ebike technology (I’m a huge fan of it) and really not even a knock to Stark…just one (the main) reason I’m not buying one.

PJRAUS wrote:

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components...

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components as well as hubs , rims and spokes..
In all likelihood, Stark is probably manufacturing relatively little of the bike in house..
They have probably dropped the coin already on making injection moulds for the plastic on their single model..possibly having an outside supplier produce the plastics with these moulds..
I frankly dont see any problems other than battery, motor and cpu which may or may not be made in house by Stark.
If they should go broke and disappear in 5 years..I find it highly unlikely that I wont be able to get common wear parts.
It remains to be seen...once the media gets a chance to examine them close up.. what will be on the bikes?
Nissin brake parts ? Brembo? Galfer? We already know its Kayaba suspension.. what about bearings? So Stark are gonna use exclusive Stark by design and manufacture bearings and seals in the linkage and head stem..or maybe go to SKF or someone to source bearings and seals , already in production that suit their needs?

I mean really....do people really think that Stark are making evey single component of this bike in house?

I think you are going to have to think a little harder to find a legitimate reason as to why people like me are taking a risk buying the bike...because the ones you are putting forward seem ridiculous to me..

If you dont want an electric bike ..fine..you have your reasons...but I seriously doubt that the fears held by some on this forum , namely that this bike heralds the end of motocross as we know it..have any basis in reality
Also ,I keep seeing , time and time again people saying " if I cant get 80 miles out of it on a trail ride..""
I thought vital mx meant motocross? Why so many here wanting to judge motocross specific bikes by their usefulness as a trail bike? Its a motocross forum...go find an offroad forum...this is a motocross forum...

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

#434 wrote:

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching...

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching Brembo brakes and standard bearings and stuff like that. Sure, if they go out of business and if motor or the battery or the electronics fail you habe a problem. However, those things are not parts that wear out (battery looses capacity over time, but very slowly).
I mean completely new products are always for the brave that embrace new tech. Doesn’t matter if it comes from an established company or not.

Titan1 wrote:

For the sake of all the buyers of the bike I hope you’re right.

#434 wrote:

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching...

PJRAUS‘s right about the components (and with the rest of his post), no problem with wear parts: STARK’s uses KYB suspension, wheels in KTM dimensions, matching Brembo brakes and standard bearings and stuff like that. Sure, if they go out of business and if motor or the battery or the electronics fail you habe a problem. However, those things are not parts that wear out (battery looses capacity over time, but very slowly).
I mean completely new products are always for the brave that embrace new tech. Doesn’t matter if it comes from an established company or not.

Titan1 wrote:

For the sake of all the buyers of the bike I hope you’re right.

PJRAUS wrote:

Well..as we have already agreed...nobody has actually bought one yet, just paid a small deposit. But very soon now, the media are going to get to...

Well..as we have already agreed...nobody has actually bought one yet, just paid a small deposit. But very soon now, the media are going to get to test this bike and report back to us..we are then going to have a great many questions answered...
This to me, speaks volumes about Stark's integrity and their confidence in their product, for surely, if they had anything to hide, they wouldn't be letting the media anywhere near these bikes before they get paid in full for their pre orders.

RaceFace58 wrote:

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it...

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it handles. But will they be on a production bike? Or an improved prototype? I can tell you write now you’ll see nothing but rave reviews. I can guarantee that. It isn’t until people have them in their possession that you’ll know any negatives.

PJRAUS wrote:

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components...

Well Im sure the bike will come with a 520 pitch chain..no problem there, sprockets...they are probably getting them supplied by an outside supplier..likewise brake components as well as hubs , rims and spokes..
In all likelihood, Stark is probably manufacturing relatively little of the bike in house..
They have probably dropped the coin already on making injection moulds for the plastic on their single model..possibly having an outside supplier produce the plastics with these moulds..
I frankly dont see any problems other than battery, motor and cpu which may or may not be made in house by Stark.
If they should go broke and disappear in 5 years..I find it highly unlikely that I wont be able to get common wear parts.
It remains to be seen...once the media gets a chance to examine them close up.. what will be on the bikes?
Nissin brake parts ? Brembo? Galfer? We already know its Kayaba suspension.. what about bearings? So Stark are gonna use exclusive Stark by design and manufacture bearings and seals in the linkage and head stem..or maybe go to SKF or someone to source bearings and seals , already in production that suit their needs?

I mean really....do people really think that Stark are making evey single component of this bike in house?

I think you are going to have to think a little harder to find a legitimate reason as to why people like me are taking a risk buying the bike...because the ones you are putting forward seem ridiculous to me..

If you dont want an electric bike ..fine..you have your reasons...but I seriously doubt that the fears held by some on this forum , namely that this bike heralds the end of motocross as we know it..have any basis in reality
Also ,I keep seeing , time and time again people saying " if I cant get 80 miles out of it on a trail ride..""
I thought vital mx meant motocross? Why so many here wanting to judge motocross specific bikes by their usefulness as a trail bike? Its a motocross forum...go find an offroad forum...this is a motocross forum...

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

PJRAUS wrote:

I will concede the point on battery, cpu and motor...it is a complete unknown at this stage.. I think our argument stems from the differences between...

I will concede the point on battery, cpu and motor...it is a complete unknown at this stage..
I think our argument stems from the differences between us in our own personal situations.,.
If I thought the stark would possibly only last me a year and then be a worn out wreck that I could never get parts for..I wouldn't have signed up.. people who bought Altas are still riding their Altas btw..

But lets say ,in 5 years it is in fact a worn out wreck that I can't get parts for..then hooray..I got 5 years!
I have no hesitation in sacrificing the $ 17k Australian it will cost me to get the 5 years, roughly $3.4 k per year..to get what I want from owning this bike
After having listened to Anton Waas now on various interviews...it comes down to a choice for me over who do I believe? Him...a very successful business man with a passion for all things mechanical, particularly motocross or people like you?
The more I Iisten to Anton...the more confidence I have in him..the more I listen to you, the more I think that emotion clouds your thinking.
I think its fair to say that I can afford to take somewhat calculated risk that I recieve this bike after Ive paid the $17k and never get my value for money spent out of it..
You perhaos are not in any position financially to take any such risk,therefore it effects your thinking on the matter in a negative sense...I mean you did actually mention.. " chain" in your list of things that I might not be able to get from the aftermarket should Stark fail...if emotional rhinking isnt effecting your argument..how would you explain saying that?

Titan1 wrote:

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it...

For as confident as you are trying to be about this...there sure are a lot of "probably's "Maybe's" "should's" "in all likelihood's" "highly unlikely's" and it "remains to be seen's" in that post. Those words/phrases sure express a lot of doubt, and hope...rather than certainty and confidence.

And it seems to me that " battery, motor and cpu" are pretty darn important...and if every aftermarket company in the world made replacement wear parts for the Stark long after they are out of business...but not those three things...you're out of luck.

Do you know how much more difficult it is to get after market parts for Sherco's or Beta's or TM's relative to the big 7 (Kawi, Yam, Honda, Suzuki, KTM, Husky, GasGas)? And those small boutique brands are still producing bikes...so for me, if Stark ever went out of business, I'll never bank of wear parts being available for the bike.

If you're willing to bank your $15K investment on that...go for it...for me...hard pass.

Lots of us race off road and moto...and do it on one bike. That's why range is an issue and brought up...never mind that its a legit viable issue...I predominately ride off road, and so no matter how much I love the e bike tech, or how good the Stark is, until the range improves...I'm just not going to be able to buy one. If I raced moto, or even mostly moto, I wouldn't care at all about the range.

Anyway, I'm not trying to talk you out of buying one...I'm simply stating the reasons why I wont buy one (YET!!!).

PJRAUS wrote:

I will concede the point on battery, cpu and motor...it is a complete unknown at this stage.. I think our argument stems from the differences between...

I will concede the point on battery, cpu and motor...it is a complete unknown at this stage..
I think our argument stems from the differences between us in our own personal situations.,.
If I thought the stark would possibly only last me a year and then be a worn out wreck that I could never get parts for..I wouldn't have signed up.. people who bought Altas are still riding their Altas btw..

But lets say ,in 5 years it is in fact a worn out wreck that I can't get parts for..then hooray..I got 5 years!
I have no hesitation in sacrificing the $ 17k Australian it will cost me to get the 5 years, roughly $3.4 k per year..to get what I want from owning this bike
After having listened to Anton Waas now on various interviews...it comes down to a choice for me over who do I believe? Him...a very successful business man with a passion for all things mechanical, particularly motocross or people like you?
The more I Iisten to Anton...the more confidence I have in him..the more I listen to you, the more I think that emotion clouds your thinking.
I think its fair to say that I can afford to take somewhat calculated risk that I recieve this bike after Ive paid the $17k and never get my value for money spent out of it..
You perhaos are not in any position financially to take any such risk,therefore it effects your thinking on the matter in a negative sense...I mean you did actually mention.. " chain" in your list of things that I might not be able to get from the aftermarket should Stark fail...if emotional rhinking isnt effecting your argument..how would you explain saying that?

Titan1 wrote:

You’re drunk on the koolaide bro…I don’t understand why you feel a burden to defend this bike so passionately? You don’t have to defend it…other than...

You’re drunk on the koolaide bro…I don’t understand why you feel a burden to defend this bike so passionately? You don’t have to defend it…other than you are trying to justify your purchase…which is kinda sad…

Anyway…I hope the bike is everything you want it to be. Based on how passionately you defend it now, I have no doubt it will be the very best bike you’ve ridden, you’ll have no regrets at all, and everyone should have one.

But I have no doubt that a successful business man, is also a great salesman, and will be spinning everything they do to make it sound like the best thing in the world…how do you think business men get other successful business men to invest in start ups that fail? So you keep justifying your purchase…Ill wait and see what actually goes to market, see how the company performs, and then make a decision. You do you, bro…

RaceFace58 wrote:

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it...

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it handles. But will they be on a production bike? Or an improved prototype? I can tell you write now you’ll see nothing but rave reviews. I can guarantee that. It isn’t until people have them in their possession that you’ll know any negatives.

#434 wrote:

I thought you knew all the negatives already..

RaceFace58 wrote:

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it...

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it handles. But will they be on a production bike? Or an improved prototype? I can tell you write now you’ll see nothing but rave reviews. I can guarantee that. It isn’t until people have them in their possession that you’ll know any negatives.

#434 wrote:

I thought you knew all the negatives already..

Bearuno wrote:

Thing is, [b]Titan1[/b] He's buying one. He's got confidence in it. You don't. And both positions are fine. There's no need for you to keep on...

Thing is, Titan1 He's buying one.

He's got confidence in it.

You don't.

And both positions are fine.

There's no need for you to keep on harping on about the 'risks' of being an early buyer of a Stark Varg.

PJ has given thought them, has weighed them up, and is awaiting delivery.

His money, His risk.

It should be of no concern to you, and your decision not to take said risk.

'Cycle Parts' really won't be a problem : as many people know, the bloke who is the 'front 'man, has been involved in one of the largest MC parts and accessories sellers in the World, and he / they won't be so foolish as to try to use anything not connected to the E components, that is bespoke to Stark Varg.

Last night I had the great news that my DH bike Test and Development Rider has ordered one. The Bastard bs'd to me for quite a while, not admitting he had. He's been an E Bike user for yonks, many E pushies, those Stealth E bikes ( though it may be a different S name - I hated the bloody thing, massive hub engine, and bicycle level parts, made for a evil handling bloody mess of a 'bike'). He's expecting his Start Varg early 2023.

Best thing is, I've now no need to buy a Stark , as he's about 2ks from me, I'm ( sort of) retired, and I'll be able to use it during the day, locally, while he's off working. It's not as if he's not got access to far more $$$$$ of my bikes / frames than a Stark Varg costs . He even pre-ordered a set of Grey plastics for my use, as well as the Red for him. I think also, a White set as well.

RaceFace58 wrote:

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it...

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it handles. But will they be on a production bike? Or an improved prototype? I can tell you write now you’ll see nothing but rave reviews. I can guarantee that. It isn’t until people have them in their possession that you’ll know any negatives.

#434 wrote:

I thought you knew all the negatives already..

RaceFace58 wrote:

Wanna take bets on how far past their deadline they start delivering? Leaks of production problems cropping up? Sourcing issues? Or does Stark magically have that...

Wanna take bets on how far past their deadline they start delivering? Leaks of production problems cropping up? Sourcing issues? Or does Stark magically have that figured out too. Everyone in the manufacturing world is seeing lead times months longer than what used to be measured in weeks. I haven’t even brought that one up yet.

RaceFace58 wrote:

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it...

Sorry but they are only going to get to ride it not test it. They will be able ti see how the power is how it handles. But will they be on a production bike? Or an improved prototype? I can tell you write now you’ll see nothing but rave reviews. I can guarantee that. It isn’t until people have them in their possession that you’ll know any negatives.

#434 wrote:

I thought you knew all the negatives already..

RaceFace58 wrote:

Wanna take bets on how far past their deadline they start delivering? Leaks of production problems cropping up? Sourcing issues? Or does Stark magically have that...

Wanna take bets on how far past their deadline they start delivering? Leaks of production problems cropping up? Sourcing issues? Or does Stark magically have that figured out too. Everyone in the manufacturing world is seeing lead times months longer than what used to be measured in weeks. I haven’t even brought that one up yet.

RaceFace58 wrote:

I do. It’s battery powered. That covers it.

Bearuno wrote:

Thing is, [b]Titan1[/b] He's buying one. He's got confidence in it. You don't. And both positions are fine. There's no need for you to keep on...

Thing is, Titan1 He's buying one.

He's got confidence in it.

You don't.

And both positions are fine.

There's no need for you to keep on harping on about the 'risks' of being an early buyer of a Stark Varg.

PJ has given thought them, has weighed them up, and is awaiting delivery.

His money, His risk.

It should be of no concern to you, and your decision not to take said risk.

'Cycle Parts' really won't be a problem : as many people know, the bloke who is the 'front 'man, has been involved in one of the largest MC parts and accessories sellers in the World, and he / they won't be so foolish as to try to use anything not connected to the E components, that is bespoke to Stark Varg.

Last night I had the great news that my DH bike Test and Development Rider has ordered one. The Bastard bs'd to me for quite a while, not admitting he had. He's been an E Bike user for yonks, many E pushies, those Stealth E bikes ( though it may be a different S name - I hated the bloody thing, massive hub engine, and bicycle level parts, made for a evil handling bloody mess of a 'bike'). He's expecting his Start Varg early 2023.

Best thing is, I've now no need to buy a Stark , as he's about 2ks from me, I'm ( sort of) retired, and I'll be able to use it during the day, locally, while he's off working. It's not as if he's not got access to far more $$$$$ of my bikes / frames than a Stark Varg costs . He even pre-ordered a set of Grey plastics for my use, as well as the Red for him. I think also, a White set as well.

Titan1 wrote:

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now. But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty...

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now.

But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty much everything about them (with the exception of range, and a solid established proven company)...in fact...I own one! I have an e-bike in my garage...granted its a Husky EE5...but I absolutely LOVE it! (So does my son) I can't tell you how badly I hope that Husky/KTM/GasGas have a 65 sized version by the time my son is ready to move up. No part of me wants to deal with mini-bike maintenance performance ever again...and I'd gladly keep him on e bikes forever...and I'd be on one, if I could find one if one of the big 7 would come out with one with equal performance and the range to suit the riding that I do.

So I'm not an ebike hater...not at all...I'm the opposite.

Bearuno wrote:

Thing is, [b]Titan1[/b] He's buying one. He's got confidence in it. You don't. And both positions are fine. There's no need for you to keep on...

Thing is, Titan1 He's buying one.

He's got confidence in it.

You don't.

And both positions are fine.

There's no need for you to keep on harping on about the 'risks' of being an early buyer of a Stark Varg.

PJ has given thought them, has weighed them up, and is awaiting delivery.

His money, His risk.

It should be of no concern to you, and your decision not to take said risk.

'Cycle Parts' really won't be a problem : as many people know, the bloke who is the 'front 'man, has been involved in one of the largest MC parts and accessories sellers in the World, and he / they won't be so foolish as to try to use anything not connected to the E components, that is bespoke to Stark Varg.

Last night I had the great news that my DH bike Test and Development Rider has ordered one. The Bastard bs'd to me for quite a while, not admitting he had. He's been an E Bike user for yonks, many E pushies, those Stealth E bikes ( though it may be a different S name - I hated the bloody thing, massive hub engine, and bicycle level parts, made for a evil handling bloody mess of a 'bike'). He's expecting his Start Varg early 2023.

Best thing is, I've now no need to buy a Stark , as he's about 2ks from me, I'm ( sort of) retired, and I'll be able to use it during the day, locally, while he's off working. It's not as if he's not got access to far more $$$$$ of my bikes / frames than a Stark Varg costs . He even pre-ordered a set of Grey plastics for my use, as well as the Red for him. I think also, a White set as well.

Titan1 wrote:

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now. But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty...

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now.

But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty much everything about them (with the exception of range, and a solid established proven company)...in fact...I own one! I have an e-bike in my garage...granted its a Husky EE5...but I absolutely LOVE it! (So does my son) I can't tell you how badly I hope that Husky/KTM/GasGas have a 65 sized version by the time my son is ready to move up. No part of me wants to deal with mini-bike maintenance performance ever again...and I'd gladly keep him on e bikes forever...and I'd be on one, if I could find one if one of the big 7 would come out with one with equal performance and the range to suit the riding that I do.

So I'm not an ebike hater...not at all...I'm the opposite.

Bearuno wrote:

Thing is, [b]Titan1[/b] He's buying one. He's got confidence in it. You don't. And both positions are fine. There's no need for you to keep on...

Thing is, Titan1 He's buying one.

He's got confidence in it.

You don't.

And both positions are fine.

There's no need for you to keep on harping on about the 'risks' of being an early buyer of a Stark Varg.

PJ has given thought them, has weighed them up, and is awaiting delivery.

His money, His risk.

It should be of no concern to you, and your decision not to take said risk.

'Cycle Parts' really won't be a problem : as many people know, the bloke who is the 'front 'man, has been involved in one of the largest MC parts and accessories sellers in the World, and he / they won't be so foolish as to try to use anything not connected to the E components, that is bespoke to Stark Varg.

Last night I had the great news that my DH bike Test and Development Rider has ordered one. The Bastard bs'd to me for quite a while, not admitting he had. He's been an E Bike user for yonks, many E pushies, those Stealth E bikes ( though it may be a different S name - I hated the bloody thing, massive hub engine, and bicycle level parts, made for a evil handling bloody mess of a 'bike'). He's expecting his Start Varg early 2023.

Best thing is, I've now no need to buy a Stark , as he's about 2ks from me, I'm ( sort of) retired, and I'll be able to use it during the day, locally, while he's off working. It's not as if he's not got access to far more $$$$$ of my bikes / frames than a Stark Varg costs . He even pre-ordered a set of Grey plastics for my use, as well as the Red for him. I think also, a White set as well.

Titan1 wrote:

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now. But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty...

You're right...I've overstayed my welcome in this thread. So I'll bow out now.

But one point that is lost is that I LOVE the ebikes, pretty much everything about them (with the exception of range, and a solid established proven company)...in fact...I own one! I have an e-bike in my garage...granted its a Husky EE5...but I absolutely LOVE it! (So does my son) I can't tell you how badly I hope that Husky/KTM/GasGas have a 65 sized version by the time my son is ready to move up. No part of me wants to deal with mini-bike maintenance performance ever again...and I'd gladly keep him on e bikes forever...and I'd be on one, if I could find one if one of the big 7 would come out with one with equal performance and the range to suit the riding that I do.

So I'm not an ebike hater...not at all...I'm the opposite.

Smerwin43 wrote:

I personally enjoy the adversarial comments in these threads, it opens my mind to separate problems and just like everybody else I am looking for the...

I personally enjoy the adversarial comments in these threads, it opens my mind to separate problems and just like everybody else I am looking for the most informed and thought out ideas and I don’t think that comes from trying to make others leave the discussion.

As frustrating as it may be at times, you can always take something away from their comments, and if it were just the believers allowed then there would just be radio silence until the next big news break. I’ve ordered two Stark Vargs and personally can’t wait. I love seeing unread posts in this thread whether negative or positive.

On another note, Anton mentioned the possibility of being 1-2 months late. In my eyes this doesn’t show that they will be, as I said, just opening our eyes to the possibility that it could be late.

Hope I added something to the conversation for you guys.

Smerwin43 wrote:

Rad addition!

face biter wrote:

I got an email yesterday to plan for a November 24th delivery date.
I’m looking forward to it!