New Gen KTM Troubles

Kenny Lingus
Profile picture for user Kenny Lingus
Posts
1088
Joined
9/9/2016
Location
Watkins Glen, NY, USA
Kenny Lingus 1/30/2022 8:22am
1/30/2022 8:22am
RC commented several times on the bike looking off. I think he said something along the lines of, "The whole team is not exactly setting it on fire".
3
-MAVERICK-
Profile picture for user -MAVERICK-
Posts
68161
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario, CA
-MAVERICK- 1/30/2022 8:35am
1/30/2022 8:35am
Kenny Lingus wrote:
RC commented several times on the bike looking off. I think he said something along the lines of, "The whole team is not exactly setting it...
RC commented several times on the bike looking off. I think he said something along the lines of, "The whole team is not exactly setting it on fire".
RC doesn't know what he's talking about!

#Sarcasm
4
1
tek14
Profile picture for user tek14
Posts
4974
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa, FI
tek14 1/30/2022 8:37am
1/30/2022 8:37am
JJO741 wrote:
I don’t think the bike is a problem. AP7 looked really good in the heat race battling with Tomac and he got 2nd in Oakland. Not...
I don’t think the bike is a problem. AP7 looked really good in the heat race battling with Tomac and he got 2nd in Oakland. Not sure what happened with him tonight. Webb hasn’t really looked like himself this year so far. Musquin has been kind of all over the place.

It’s cliché to say, but the 450 class is just stacked. I think we’re starting to see that Sexton, Anderson, Tomac, and Ferrandis have been the fastest speed wise, but other than that it’s been pretty crazy.
AP7 looked to be all over the place and making many mistakes per lap. After his pre season interviews how he can put KTM where ever he wants that was not case with Yamaha looked just opposite when Tomac went by.
They are early testing for SX and seems Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha has their setup dialed for different tracks for now.
With same new frame (even not production ones) Herlings is looking great outdoors.
1
1
Dirty Points 1/30/2022 8:41am
1/30/2022 8:41am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 8:43am
JJO741 wrote:
I don’t think the bike is a problem. AP7 looked really good in the heat race battling with Tomac and he got 2nd in Oakland. Not...
I don’t think the bike is a problem. AP7 looked really good in the heat race battling with Tomac and he got 2nd in Oakland. Not sure what happened with him tonight. Webb hasn’t really looked like himself this year so far. Musquin has been kind of all over the place.

It’s cliché to say, but the 450 class is just stacked. I think we’re starting to see that Sexton, Anderson, Tomac, and Ferrandis have been the fastest speed wise, but other than that it’s been pretty crazy.
tek14 wrote:
AP7 looked to be all over the place and making many mistakes per lap. After his pre season interviews how he can put KTM where ever...
AP7 looked to be all over the place and making many mistakes per lap. After his pre season interviews how he can put KTM where ever he wants that was not case with Yamaha looked just opposite when Tomac went by.
They are early testing for SX and seems Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha has their setup dialed for different tracks for now.
With same new frame (even not production ones) Herlings is looking great outdoors.
Has Herlings ever looked anything other than great outdoors? He only has two outdoors looks: Great and Injured.
10
5

The Shop

See All »
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
37762
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
TeamGreen 1/30/2022 8:44am
1/30/2022 8:44am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's. Anderson is bringing his 2018 form Tomac is back to Tomac (I...
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's.

Anderson is bringing his 2018 form
Tomac is back to Tomac (I think it's here to stay this year)
Sexton young super talent.

The rest are where they should be.

Mookie looks better this year tbh.

Overall the rides that people are putting in this year are exactly where they should be.
Historically, since moving to KTM and when he was with Aldon, Cooper hunted people down...he REALLY hunted them down towards the end of the race. Also, he was The King of The Inside-Pass...ESPECIALLY in tighter bowl turns where the competition always needed to depend on the "Bowl". He'd pass their asses "on the flat" and leave them for DEAD.

All of that is missing this year. The late race "attack". The decidedly FASTER than the competition "inside pass". Hell...the fire ain't the same...at all.

Another thing, he -was- becoming a helluva lot better in the whoops. His whoop-speed seems to be hit-or-miss nowadays.

There's no hate in my observations. In-fact, quite the opposite...I'd rather see him in the mix. Kenny, too, but...that's another story. Kenny seems to really fall off the pace once something...anything...interferes with his initial attack. That's a bummer: I want to see him in "it", too.

Something that kinda solves the entire discussion about "it must be the BIKE" is Jason Anderson: He's CRUSHING IT on the Kawi. You know...? The Kawi that everyone blamed for Eli's troubles. Well, low and behold, maybe it's NOT the bike...maybe these guys just needed a change -or- needed to mix-up their day to day life to make things seem new, again.

But, I could be wrong.
7
3
HD1200
Profile picture for user HD1200
Posts
1090
Joined
5/11/2008
Location
Greenville, GA, USA
HD1200 1/30/2022 8:44am
1/30/2022 8:44am
How long until KTM makes a 450sxf and a 450mxf? Different bikes for different disciplines.
2
1
Dirty Points 1/30/2022 8:47am
1/30/2022 8:47am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 8:47am
HD1200 wrote:
How long until KTM makes a 450sxf and a 450mxf? Different bikes for different disciplines.
Why would they make a specific bike for a discipline that virtually nobody rides, yet has stringent rules that it must be a mass-market model?
4
Thisusernameisavailable 1/30/2022 8:47am
1/30/2022 8:47am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash. There was...
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash.

There was nothing wrong with the bike at A1, there was nothing wrong with the bike at Oakland, there was nothing wrong with the bike last night. Webb isn't performing- he was beaten last night by two of the 'new' bikes and one of the 'old' bikes.

If ALL of the new bikes were consistently lagging behind, id agree with you, but that simply isn't happening.
Broseph wrote:
By that logic, the YZ450 was completely sorted in 2019 at A1 when Barcia got 1st. But we all know that’s not true.
Well not really, in 2019 the YZF (Best result) went 1,6,7,7 in the first four rounds. Yet The '22 FE/RE has so far gone 2,2,4,5.

The '22 FE has so far consistently been up the sharp end with four top fives in four races. How anyone can say its not performing is perplexing.

If we compare this result to Star's YZF so far this year, it's gone 6,4,2,1. Three top fives in four races.

*NOTE: Im not saying any bike is better than the other, im just noting that the 'new' bike is not the problem.
1
9
lostboy819 1/30/2022 8:49am
1/30/2022 8:49am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 8:53am
Must be the antique steel frame, everyone know aluminum frames are the way to go. Wink next thing ya know KTM will use a carburetor and air cooling and drop down to 6 inches of suspension travel. Or Webb will dial it in and start winning and make a run for the championship just like in the past. They will get it dialed and AP always looks squirrely on a SX track.
1
3
PNWMXer
Profile picture for user PNWMXer
Posts
1804
Joined
1/13/2022
Location
Washington, WA, USA
PNWMXer 1/30/2022 8:59am
1/30/2022 8:59am
lostboy819 wrote:
Must be the antique steel frame, everyone know aluminum frames are the way to go. ;) next thing ya know KTM will use a carburetor and...
Must be the antique steel frame, everyone know aluminum frames are the way to go. Wink next thing ya know KTM will use a carburetor and air cooling and drop down to 6 inches of suspension travel. Or Webb will dial it in and start winning and make a run for the championship just like in the past. They will get it dialed and AP always looks squirrely on a SX track.
Girling Trax shock? Laughing
1
Gravel
Profile picture for user Gravel
Posts
1933
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA, USA
Gravel 1/30/2022 9:01am
1/30/2022 9:01am
Give KTM and Roger a few months of development during the races and it’ll be good. This pattern is pretty predictable, the second season on a new bike usually is when it starts to consistently shine.

I’ve always wondered how much lab time is invested in the bikes before the riders are involved. With enough time and money anything can be measured and quantified. It takes a while to develop the database of what works and what doesn’t so it’d be a big commitment, maybe the moto market just doesn’t support R&D at that level?
Kenny Lingus
Profile picture for user Kenny Lingus
Posts
1088
Joined
9/9/2016
Location
Watkins Glen, NY, USA
Kenny Lingus 1/30/2022 9:04am
1/30/2022 9:04am
Kenny Lingus wrote:
RC commented several times on the bike looking off. I think he said something along the lines of, "The whole team is not exactly setting it...
RC commented several times on the bike looking off. I think he said something along the lines of, "The whole team is not exactly setting it on fire".
-MAVERICK- wrote:
RC doesn't know what he's talking about!

#Sarcasm
As long as it's not colors.
1
davis224
Profile picture for user davis224
Posts
7603
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL, USA
Fantasy
176th
davis224 1/30/2022 9:25am
1/30/2022 9:25am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash. There was...
And those changes were sorted by A1 when it scored a 2nd. Now three weeks later and "let's blame the new bike" doesn't wash.

There was nothing wrong with the bike at A1, there was nothing wrong with the bike at Oakland, there was nothing wrong with the bike last night. Webb isn't performing- he was beaten last night by two of the 'new' bikes and one of the 'old' bikes.

If ALL of the new bikes were consistently lagging behind, id agree with you, but that simply isn't happening.
Broseph wrote:
By that logic, the YZ450 was completely sorted in 2019 at A1 when Barcia got 1st. But we all know that’s not true.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Well not really, in 2019 the YZF (Best result) went 1,6,7,7 in the first four rounds. Yet The '22 FE/RE has so far gone 2,2,4,5. The...
Well not really, in 2019 the YZF (Best result) went 1,6,7,7 in the first four rounds. Yet The '22 FE/RE has so far gone 2,2,4,5.

The '22 FE has so far consistently been up the sharp end with four top fives in four races. How anyone can say its not performing is perplexing.

If we compare this result to Star's YZF so far this year, it's gone 6,4,2,1. Three top fives in four races.

*NOTE: Im not saying any bike is better than the other, im just noting that the 'new' bike is not the problem.
Except I think everybody on the new bike, who get paid to say how great the bike is, has been quoted as saying they're off on set up and are chasing comfort. I don't think I've heard Deano say it, but I dont think I've heard anything from him anyway.
3
Sluggo77
Profile picture for user Sluggo77
Posts
310
Joined
3/25/2018
Location
CA
Sluggo77 1/30/2022 9:53am
1/30/2022 9:53am
They always had an advantage in a chassis that was near perfect for SX, especially in the corners.
This year's frame is not modified or redesigned. It is brand new, and wait for it, not as good is the old one.
If you mess around with something that works great, odds are not in your favor.
10
313 SlowDown 1/30/2022 9:55am
1/30/2022 9:55am
Each one of the new gen bike Austrian riders looked a little out of focus as if they all were ill or out of shape. Given this is not easily true, it has to be the bike.
BTW, 7 Austrian bikes from 5th to 11th in the result, even if not all new gen.
In any kind of road racing this indicates the vehicle is the limit, maybe it doesn't apply here
Moto520
Profile picture for user Moto520
Posts
3668
Joined
2/4/2013
Location
Schaumburg, IL, USA
Moto520 1/30/2022 10:17am
1/30/2022 10:17am
Of course the new bike has something to do with it. It’s going to take a little bit for the bike to be as refined as the old generation. I think it definitely has an impact
2
HD1200
Profile picture for user HD1200
Posts
1090
Joined
5/11/2008
Location
Greenville, GA, USA
HD1200 1/30/2022 10:19am
1/30/2022 10:19am
HD1200 wrote:
How long until KTM makes a 450sxf and a 450mxf? Different bikes for different disciplines.
Dirty Points wrote:
Why would they make a specific bike for a discipline that virtually nobody rides, yet has stringent rules that it must be a mass-market model?
There is obviously people who ride both, even amateur riders that aren't pros yet. Really though, it was a question, why did you answer a question with a question?
3
spimx
Profile picture for user spimx
Posts
1314
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Port Isabel, TX, USA
spimx 1/30/2022 10:46am
1/30/2022 10:46am
From last night Barcia looks a lot more comfortable than Webb
2

Pit Row

See All »
spimx
Profile picture for user spimx
Posts
1314
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Port Isabel, TX, USA
spimx 1/30/2022 10:49am
1/30/2022 10:49am
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's. Anderson is bringing his 2018 form Tomac is back to Tomac (I...
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's.

Anderson is bringing his 2018 form
Tomac is back to Tomac (I think it's here to stay this year)
Sexton young super talent.

The rest are where they should be.

Mookie looks better this year tbh.

Overall the rides that people are putting in this year are exactly where they should be.
TeamGreen wrote:
Historically, since moving to KTM and when he was with Aldon, Cooper hunted people down...he REALLY hunted them down towards the end of the race. Also...
Historically, since moving to KTM and when he was with Aldon, Cooper hunted people down...he REALLY hunted them down towards the end of the race. Also, he was The King of The Inside-Pass...ESPECIALLY in tighter bowl turns where the competition always needed to depend on the "Bowl". He'd pass their asses "on the flat" and leave them for DEAD.

All of that is missing this year. The late race "attack". The decidedly FASTER than the competition "inside pass". Hell...the fire ain't the same...at all.

Another thing, he -was- becoming a helluva lot better in the whoops. His whoop-speed seems to be hit-or-miss nowadays.

There's no hate in my observations. In-fact, quite the opposite...I'd rather see him in the mix. Kenny, too, but...that's another story. Kenny seems to really fall off the pace once something...anything...interferes with his initial attack. That's a bummer: I want to see him in "it", too.

Something that kinda solves the entire discussion about "it must be the BIKE" is Jason Anderson: He's CRUSHING IT on the Kawi. You know...? The Kawi that everyone blamed for Eli's troubles. Well, low and behold, maybe it's NOT the bike...maybe these guys just needed a change -or- needed to mix-up their day to day life to make things seem new, again.

But, I could be wrong.
Webb can't compete if he can't get the bike to corner on the inside
caviar&cigarettes338 1/30/2022 10:50am
1/30/2022 10:50am
spimx wrote:
From last night Barcia looks a lot more comfortable than Webb
He’s on the previous gen bike and probably happy to be on it
2
mooch
Profile picture for user mooch
Posts
1861
Joined
2/16/2008
Location
USA
Fantasy
75th
mooch 1/30/2022 11:06am
1/30/2022 11:06am
USA wrote:
Physically, coop looks off. They showed him and Roger talking at the truck before the mains and coop had bags under his eyes. I can't say...
Physically, coop looks off. They showed him and Roger talking at the truck before the mains and coop had bags under his eyes. I can't say I have ever seen him look 'tired' like that for a race. Then in the main it was like 2018 again, totally not the same guy.

Could be a couple things, new bike, new training program, lingering illness, idk, this is not the coop we have seen since 2019 except for A1
I thought the same thing when I saw Webb talking with Roger in that clip...bags under his eyes and not looking healthy.
2
kb228
Profile picture for user kb228
Posts
6153
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH, USA
kb228 1/30/2022 11:44am
1/30/2022 11:44am
Webb looks like he did before he signed with aldon. Hope he can turn it around but rv and dunge didnt win 2 titles and leave his program.
2
Zycki11
Profile picture for user Zycki11
Posts
7921
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
Zycki11 1/30/2022 11:51am
1/30/2022 11:51am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 1:41pm
Rotaholic wrote:
The qualifying times each week have been right up there, it's not the bike. This season is stacked, I think it's all mental from here.
No that can't be it. Cooper is in a league of his own mentallyBlink . So many Webb fanboys and the facts are still present. Webb is being beaten outright by speed. He was close enough in years past and has great race craft. But when guys are blowing by you from 4 seconds back and yarding you then the race craft goes out the window. The only thing saving his season is 4 different winners in 4 rounds. He is very lucky to only be 12 points back
3
1
davistld01
Profile picture for user davistld01
Posts
9365
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Springfield, MO, USA
davistld01 1/30/2022 11:57am
1/30/2022 11:57am
I doubt DeCoster is a happy camper.
1
1
DrinkMoreWater 1/30/2022 12:09pm
1/30/2022 12:09pm
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's. Anderson is bringing his 2018 form Tomac is back to Tomac (I...
Cooper looks off but he never was the fastest since his arrival in 450's.

Anderson is bringing his 2018 form
Tomac is back to Tomac (I think it's here to stay this year)
Sexton young super talent.

The rest are where they should be.

Mookie looks better this year tbh.

Overall the rides that people are putting in this year are exactly where they should be.
TeamGreen wrote:
Historically, since moving to KTM and when he was with Aldon, Cooper hunted people down...he REALLY hunted them down towards the end of the race. Also...
Historically, since moving to KTM and when he was with Aldon, Cooper hunted people down...he REALLY hunted them down towards the end of the race. Also, he was The King of The Inside-Pass...ESPECIALLY in tighter bowl turns where the competition always needed to depend on the "Bowl". He'd pass their asses "on the flat" and leave them for DEAD.

All of that is missing this year. The late race "attack". The decidedly FASTER than the competition "inside pass". Hell...the fire ain't the same...at all.

Another thing, he -was- becoming a helluva lot better in the whoops. His whoop-speed seems to be hit-or-miss nowadays.

There's no hate in my observations. In-fact, quite the opposite...I'd rather see him in the mix. Kenny, too, but...that's another story. Kenny seems to really fall off the pace once something...anything...interferes with his initial attack. That's a bummer: I want to see him in "it", too.

Something that kinda solves the entire discussion about "it must be the BIKE" is Jason Anderson: He's CRUSHING IT on the Kawi. You know...? The Kawi that everyone blamed for Eli's troubles. Well, low and behold, maybe it's NOT the bike...maybe these guys just needed a change -or- needed to mix-up their day to day life to make things seem new, again.

But, I could be wrong.
I'm agreeing with you he's off his game but at the same time Cooper is lucky that Tomac went missing for 2-3 years and Anderson likewise, I'm not discrediting Cooper at all I actually love his grit and determination no one has as good racecraft as him, if you had Coopers mind and Tomac's ability it would be an unstoppable combination.


The reason why I said Cooper is lucky is because Tomac has been off for quite a while until this year, people don't trust their eyes I swear the years that Tomac wasn't dominating people chalked up to say that everyone has gotten faster which is true to an extent but Tomac is arguably the fastest rider to come out of America maybe not in SX(Stew) but in MX 100%.

The crazy thing is what Tomac did last night isn't even his best, if he gets the win next week look out because that man thrives on confidence.
4
5
brimx153
Profile picture for user brimx153
Posts
3344
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
brimx153 1/30/2022 12:12pm
1/30/2022 12:12pm
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off season talk about it being far better in whoops was wrong . When Mookie only looks ok in the whoops it has to mean something. I think marv actually has looked better in whoops this year but id say that s more DV than bike., my opinion is the bike is good but there chasing trying to get better in the whoops so much its hurting the turns . Maybe coop would be better off doubling down on what he is good at , and be willing to struggle a bit im the whoops
1
Zycki11
Profile picture for user Zycki11
Posts
7921
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
Zycki11 1/30/2022 12:18pm
1/30/2022 12:18pm
brimx153 wrote:
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off...
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off season talk about it being far better in whoops was wrong . When Mookie only looks ok in the whoops it has to mean something. I think marv actually has looked better in whoops this year but id say that s more DV than bike., my opinion is the bike is good but there chasing trying to get better in the whoops so much its hurting the turns . Maybe coop would be better off doubling down on what he is good at , and be willing to struggle a bit im the whoops
The only problem with that is that Webb hasn't had the chance to jump the whoops. His best pass through them was after he tipped over in the turn and decided to forgo them altogether.
8
1
DrinkMoreWater 1/30/2022 12:23pm
1/30/2022 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 1/30/2022 12:24pm
brimx153 wrote:
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off...
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off season talk about it being far better in whoops was wrong . When Mookie only looks ok in the whoops it has to mean something. I think marv actually has looked better in whoops this year but id say that s more DV than bike., my opinion is the bike is good but there chasing trying to get better in the whoops so much its hurting the turns . Maybe coop would be better off doubling down on what he is good at , and be willing to struggle a bit im the whoops
Look at the riders KTM have vs Star/HRC/Kawi, those 3 teams have better riders.

Tomac back in form
Anderson back in form
Ferrandis an animal
Sexton could be the next thing.

Webb is not showing his best he's out form.
Marv is in his twilight of his career
Mookie looks good
AP looks good for him (lets be honest he's never going to win championship).

I hate blaming bikes but I still think the Yammy is not the best bike in SX but when you have talent like Tomac and Ferrandis it doesn't matter.

I remember Stewart switching from Kawi to Yammy that Yammy looked shit but he was that good he made it work, it's the same today.

TLDR - Riders > bikes.
5
6
brimx153
Profile picture for user brimx153
Posts
3344
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
brimx153 1/30/2022 12:40pm
1/30/2022 12:40pm
brimx153 wrote:
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off...
All i know in every round so far this year the bike is not better than last year s in the whoops. So all the off season talk about it being far better in whoops was wrong . When Mookie only looks ok in the whoops it has to mean something. I think marv actually has looked better in whoops this year but id say that s more DV than bike., my opinion is the bike is good but there chasing trying to get better in the whoops so much its hurting the turns . Maybe coop would be better off doubling down on what he is good at , and be willing to struggle a bit im the whoops
DrinkMoreWater wrote:
Look at the riders KTM have vs Star/HRC/Kawi, those 3 teams have better riders. Tomac back in form Anderson back in form Ferrandis an animal Sexton...
Look at the riders KTM have vs Star/HRC/Kawi, those 3 teams have better riders.

Tomac back in form
Anderson back in form
Ferrandis an animal
Sexton could be the next thing.

Webb is not showing his best he's out form.
Marv is in his twilight of his career
Mookie looks good
AP looks good for him (lets be honest he's never going to win championship).

I hate blaming bikes but I still think the Yammy is not the best bike in SX but when you have talent like Tomac and Ferrandis it doesn't matter.

I remember Stewart switching from Kawi to Yammy that Yammy looked shit but he was that good he made it work, it's the same today.

TLDR - Riders > bikes.
Imo bike and webb looked great first round everywhere bar whoop s , he was terrible in them (just like last year when he won ) . I dont think the new bike is at fault ,i think they went too far in a direction to try get him more comfortable in the whoops . Which was the prime purpose of this new bike to fix . Imo once the the track s get rutty and soft , Webb will be winning , and anyone who thinks he is out of the championship is mad .
1
Grouper
Profile picture for user Grouper
Posts
300
Joined
11/28/2021
Location
Paducah, KY, USA
Grouper 1/30/2022 1:00pm
1/30/2022 1:00pm
So much emphasis on bikes and stuff I think everyone forgets that these people are humans. One off weekend team-wide can provide insane levels of confirmation bias and now you have to get it out of your head that it was just you. Pair that up with an off day on the track, a bad head, slick track.. on and on. There’s not a single bad bike on that racetrack. If you think that you are unintelligent.
4

Post a reply to: New Gen KTM Troubles