Filthy Phil sandbagging the 250 class

I don’t know how to feel about Phil moving down to 250’s. I see that Vince Freese moved down too… Craig and J-mart have been there forever. When do we kick these guys out?? To me, the 250 class is starter class for supercross. I know these guys can make money in that class but when do we let the “up and comers” have a chance?
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1/8/2022 6:13am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2022 6:16am
I don’t know how to feel about Phil moving down to 250’s. I see that Vince Freese moved down too… Craig and J-mart have been there...
I don’t know how to feel about Phil moving down to 250’s. I see that Vince Freese moved down too… Craig and J-mart have been there forever. When do we kick these guys out?? To me, the 250 class is starter class for supercross. I know these guys can make money in that class but when do we let the “up and comers” have a chance?
If you think either one of the guys that moved down have the potential to win races or the championships, please pass me some of what you’re smoking. They aren’t going to be taking any podium bonus money from the kids.
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Brad460
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1/8/2022 6:15am
Hard for me to think of any pro class as a “starter” class…
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bens152
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1/8/2022 6:18am
It’s ok, i see it more like - these guys need jobs, the owner wants them to race, so they are like awesome, I’ll race.

Phil is probably close to having to retire without the support from his team, so I’m just happy to see him out there. MCR probably thinks Friese could do well on a 250, get the sponsors out there with his good starts and running up front. Few guys get hurt, and he’s up there in the top ten.

Why not.

I don’t think it’s Phil and Vince banging on the desk or “sand bagging” asking for a 250 ride. To be fair I wouldn’t want anything to do with trying to make a 450 main if I were them.
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motomike137
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1/8/2022 6:23am
bens152 wrote:
It’s ok, i see it more like - these guys need jobs, the owner wants them to race, so they are like awesome, I’ll race. Phil...
It’s ok, i see it more like - these guys need jobs, the owner wants them to race, so they are like awesome, I’ll race.

Phil is probably close to having to retire without the support from his team, so I’m just happy to see him out there. MCR probably thinks Friese could do well on a 250, get the sponsors out there with his good starts and running up front. Few guys get hurt, and he’s up there in the top ten.

Why not.

I don’t think it’s Phil and Vince banging on the desk or “sand bagging” asking for a 250 ride. To be fair I wouldn’t want anything to do with trying to make a 450 main if I were them.
I don't begrudge them getting a paycheck anyway that they can. Making 450 mains isn't getting any easier.
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The Shop

1/8/2022 6:40am
I don’t know how to feel about Phil moving down to 250’s. I see that Vince Freese moved down too… Craig and J-mart have been there...
I don’t know how to feel about Phil moving down to 250’s. I see that Vince Freese moved down too… Craig and J-mart have been there forever. When do we kick these guys out?? To me, the 250 class is starter class for supercross. I know these guys can make money in that class but when do we let the “up and comers” have a chance?
That starter class is putting laps time in very close to the 450s
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dsmith
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1/8/2022 6:44am
Them kids in the 250 class ain't gonna take no shit from friese....
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Premix
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1/8/2022 6:46am
Guys like the OP have a local hero that they think is fast and guys like Phil, J Mart, Craig, and VF are taking that spot in their mind. Meanwhile that hero’s going to be 35 seconds off the race pace and skipping the whoops every qualifying session and will be posting his “grinding” post on Monday that OP will comment” you got this bro”
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bowl
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1/8/2022 6:58am
Phil be lucky to get top ten finish.Unsure
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murph783
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1/8/2022 6:59am
I’m a huge Phil fan. He’ll be in the mix outdoors on the 450…but supercross? Nah. He’ll do reasonably well where he’s at so I think that’s all good
yak651
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1/8/2022 7:02am
Phil showed during outdoors that he's not going to be a threat so good for him to still have some support to go racing. I'm all for moving factory supported "kids" out of the 250 "support class" that should/would be competitive in the main class, but if it keeps vets racing more power to them.
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-MAVERICK-
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1/8/2022 7:25am
Sandbagging. Yeah, no!

They're not taking rides from anyone. If you don't have a factory ride or support ride straight from Loretta's, you got work to do.

It didn't stop Weston Peick from going out there and earning his factory ride. He's proof that it can be done.

People were saying Reed was taking someone's ride or someone's spot on the gate. For starters, he had his own team, so he wasn't taking anyone's ride. He wasn't taking anyone's spot on the gate either because he went out there and qualified just like every other rider.

Want their spot? Go out and beat them.
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Nairb#70
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1/8/2022 8:07am
250 and 450 class are officially now equally as legit.
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philG
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1/8/2022 8:21am
Its a lot easier to make mains against half the riders.
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1/8/2022 8:27am
The 250 class is so far off from the original context creation of a class that if any of the top 5 450 riders dropped down I would still not consider them to be sand bagging.
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holeshot413
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1/8/2022 8:37am
I don’t think the 250 class should have riders “pointing out” or aging out. Some guys are just better 250 riders and yes maybe some can’t find a 450 ride. Let em race!
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skeef
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1/8/2022 8:37am
It's not the lites class anymore.
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KTMBRO362
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1/8/2022 8:42am
👎🏻
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ATKpilot99
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1/8/2022 8:42am
I don’t think the 250 class should have riders “pointing out” or aging out. Some guys are just better 250 riders and yes maybe some can’t...
I don’t think the 250 class should have riders “pointing out” or aging out. Some guys are just better 250 riders and yes maybe some can’t find a 450 ride. Let em race!
Then it should be one championship like the 450s .
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lestat
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1/8/2022 8:44am
I don’t think the 250 class should have riders “pointing out” or aging out. Some guys are just better 250 riders and yes maybe some can’t...
I don’t think the 250 class should have riders “pointing out” or aging out. Some guys are just better 250 riders and yes maybe some can’t find a 450 ride. Let em race!
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Then it should be one championship like the 450s .
With equal pay .
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1/8/2022 9:24am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2022 9:25am
Did Phil point out of the 250 class? I don't think he did.
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kage173
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1/8/2022 9:37am
There is no sandbagging at the pro level. You're either following the rules or you're not racing.

Sandbagging only happens at races that don't have the resources to check if you're racing in the class that the rules allow. If you're following the rules you are not sandbagging
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1/8/2022 9:41am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Then it should be one championship like the 450s .
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up or move out.

Christian Craig has been racing 250fs since fucking 2011, literally a decade. Can't wait to see another 5th place season finish!
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murph783
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1/8/2022 9:54am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Then it should be one championship like the 450s .
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up...
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up or move out.

Christian Craig has been racing 250fs since fucking 2011, literally a decade. Can't wait to see another 5th place season finish!
I agree. If people are gonna lifetime it, just make it a national championship.
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-MAVERICK-
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1/8/2022 10:14am
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up...
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up or move out.

Christian Craig has been racing 250fs since fucking 2011, literally a decade. Can't wait to see another 5th place season finish!
I took a look awhile back to see where he stands and he's currently got 48 starts to his name. If he makes all the rounds this year that total will be 58.

Comparison

Davalos: 104 starts (record for most starts)
Alex Martin: 75 starts
Zach Osborne: 68 starts
Shane Mcelrath: 62 starts
Jeremy Martin: 49 starts
Vince Friese: 47 starts
Joey Savatgy: 46 starts
Colt Nichols: 45 starts
Jordon Smith: 41 starts
RJ Hampshire: 39 starts
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1/8/2022 10:22am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I took a look awhile back to see where he stands and he's currently got 48 starts to his name. If he makes all the rounds...
I took a look awhile back to see where he stands and he's currently got 48 starts to his name. If he makes all the rounds this year that total will be 58.

Comparison

Davalos: 104 starts (record for most starts)
Alex Martin: 75 starts
Zach Osborne: 68 starts
Shane Mcelrath: 62 starts
Jeremy Martin: 49 starts
Vince Friese: 47 starts
Joey Savatgy: 46 starts
Colt Nichols: 45 starts
Jordon Smith: 41 starts
RJ Hampshire: 39 starts
That davalos stat is bonkers lmao
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1/8/2022 10:34am
Phil raced 250 SX in 2017 and 2018 for JGR, then went to Canada. Did we complain about this in 2017?

Vince Friese has been a 450 guy from 2016-2020, now he's doing 250. Are we OK with this?

Kyle Chisholm dropped back to 250 in 2017 and 2018 as well. Was this OK?

Honestly, let's just enjoy the racing. If ClubMX sees more value in Phil on a 250 than some unreliable teenager, it's their money. The rules allow him to race 250.
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viking174
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1/8/2022 10:39am
Basically the 250 class is pretty stacked as well and bring in two or three more guys to fill in top ten makes it even more stacked for fresh privateers? Is this what you mean??
Dirt.Squirt
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1/8/2022 10:58am
I’m just glad Phil is back in deathcross
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Question
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1/8/2022 11:03am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2022 11:06am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Then it should be one championship like the 450s .
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up...
I'll die with you on this hill; cap the total number of races you're allowed to ride in the lites class and then ultimately move up or move out.

Christian Craig has been racing 250fs since fucking 2011, literally a decade. Can't wait to see another 5th place season finish!
murph783 wrote:
I agree. If people are gonna lifetime it, just make it a national championship.
I don't get this agenda/lobby, no need to fix something that is not broken, especially when currently it works perfectly (while actually providing ton more jobs).

Having 2 championships in the 250 make things more exciting. Why changing it into something like the 450s ? In 450, although we have been blessed the last seasons, a hierarchy is very often in place after round 6 or 7, and some seasons it was harder to watch round 12 to 17. Just look here how many people are looking for the outdoors here from round 10.

That is why there are quite a few things to think about before changing the racing formats. (pro licence = insured rider for racing and training, more equal purse money for night shows as top factory riders are already well paid, more charity events and auctions for permanently injured riders, merchandising in the pits especially for privateers or enough freedom to collect orders, getting it more mainstream through free streaming on fb and youtube, a closer look at the promoters money to avoid a repeat like in the GPs, getting new locations with ebikes, pooling some dealership money to keep or make more or nearer tracks, college degrees in 250 or futures, limiting money from agents, more pension/investment opp. to avoid riders to blow it all, having more flex on the 500 bikes rules to bring new oems, etc etc)
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Zycki11
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1/8/2022 11:05am
They should leave the 250’s in sx as is and have a 125 class and that class should be the learning curve class
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