STARK FUTURE VARG - An Electric Bike that is Faster and Lighter than a 450?

fs
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HR
12/23/2021 5:21am
I have to admit, as an Alta MXR owner im really impressed with the specs and cant wait to get one, however im a bit suspicious...
I have to admit, as an Alta MXR owner im really impressed with the specs and cant wait to get one, however im a bit suspicious of their claims and hope they are true.

The 6kWh pack is just 200watts larger than the 5.8kWh Alta MXR pack. The Alta MXR cant do a full 30+2 with a pro on it. Hell, depending on the speed of the track and the dirt type i can cook a full battery in about 20 minutes on my Alta MXR and im socal B class. So im really curious whether this bike will be able to last or not.

Regarding charging, it looks like they are using the same 3.3kW charger that Alta used. How fast a battery charges depends on the charging volts + amps, how thermally efficient the battery is, and of course the capacity. When you charge a battery fast it heats up the battery (just like your cellphone). I would expect 2 hours on 240v to recharge a completely dead battery, however yall should understand you dont usually drain the entire battery during a moto so charging events typically happen on a 2/3 depleted battery or so and charging times will be less in practice.

The ordering process for this bike is rad. Ive been screaming for oems to do this for years. You get to spec the bike how you want, and it will be delivered to you with suspension sprung for your weight.

Cant wait to get my hands on one!
take a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoWQ54NpU0&t=715s

MXR pack has 4*21*6 = 504 cells at 10.8Wh per cell (VTC6) = 5.4kwh

The pack also has cells that don't have contact with the thermal casing which means there is a long path to conduct the heat out.

Stark pack is here at 10:02 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE&t=986s
Each cell bottom goes into the metal case. Heat path is a lot shorter than with the MXR.


1
kakarot
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12/23/2021 5:29am
Tortelli was on this weeks Pulp MX show anyone interested in the Stark should give it a listen, he comes on around hour 4,
3
disbanded
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12/23/2021 5:45am
This bike with the funny name is being sold as the best MX bike ever. There is no evidence offered except paid for opinion and slick...
This bike with the funny name is being sold as the best MX bike ever. There is no evidence offered except paid for opinion and slick hype. The bikes do not exist.
Pundits are entitled to examine those claims of greatness closely.

Howz about you contribute one way or the other or ignore?
Biggest asshole on the site
11
SilverSpurs
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12/23/2021 6:00am
I have to admit, as an Alta MXR owner im really impressed with the specs and cant wait to get one, however im a bit suspicious...
I have to admit, as an Alta MXR owner im really impressed with the specs and cant wait to get one, however im a bit suspicious of their claims and hope they are true.

The 6kWh pack is just 200watts larger than the 5.8kWh Alta MXR pack. The Alta MXR cant do a full 30+2 with a pro on it. Hell, depending on the speed of the track and the dirt type i can cook a full battery in about 20 minutes on my Alta MXR and im socal B class. So im really curious whether this bike will be able to last or not.

Regarding charging, it looks like they are using the same 3.3kW charger that Alta used. How fast a battery charges depends on the charging volts + amps, how thermally efficient the battery is, and of course the capacity. When you charge a battery fast it heats up the battery (just like your cellphone). I would expect 2 hours on 240v to recharge a completely dead battery, however yall should understand you dont usually drain the entire battery during a moto so charging events typically happen on a 2/3 depleted battery or so and charging times will be less in practice.

The ordering process for this bike is rad. Ive been screaming for oems to do this for years. You get to spec the bike how you want, and it will be delivered to you with suspension sprung for your weight.

Cant wait to get my hands on one!
fs wrote:
take a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoWQ54NpU0&t=715s MXR pack has 4*21*6 = 504 cells at 10.8Wh per cell (VTC6) = 5.4kwh The pack also has cells that don't...
take a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoWQ54NpU0&t=715s

MXR pack has 4*21*6 = 504 cells at 10.8Wh per cell (VTC6) = 5.4kwh

The pack also has cells that don't have contact with the thermal casing which means there is a long path to conduct the heat out.

Stark pack is here at 10:02 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE&t=986s
Each cell bottom goes into the metal case. Heat path is a lot shorter than with the MXR.


Interesting.

Takeaway: the Alta battery was far less capacity KW and voltage than advertised when actually measured.
7

The Shop

Motofinne
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12/23/2021 6:19am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 6:22am
I've talked with one of the investors/owners the recent week and man i'm impressed. This is the breakthrough that e-MX needed, and it seems like the bike will be racing in 2022 (not US pro or MXGP racing but nationally in Europe).
3
2
Silas444
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12/23/2021 6:34am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 6:39am
Here's a thought: it's long been my belief that the weight and rotating mass of 450s has been a principal reason why, when you crash one, you crash one very hard. Electric bikes, even heavy ones, feel very different there, as they have no rotating mass - but - they might offer an even bigger opportunity, if only because there hasn't yet been a declaration by the AMA or the FIM as to how electric bikes might be separated into two classes. Well, what if the governing bodies did something akin to what boxing does, which is decide the two classes by the bike's WEIGHT. The "Lightweight" class could have a weight limit for the competing bikes of no more than, say, 210 pounds, and the "Heavyweight" or "Unlimited" class would be 211 ponds or more - up to whatever.

This would do two nifty things, in my opinion. Number one, it would make it so the bike an average person rides (the lightweight bike) would be light as a feather and thus not quite as perilous to crash as even a 250F, and two, it would almost certainly bring back a sort of "works era" to our world, as all the OEMs would no longer be limited in terms of the DISPLACEMENT or POWER of their bikes, only the WEIGHT. They could be as radical as they wish to be in terms of design. If you remember the 80s-era Honda twin-cylinder RC125 with Ribi forks (my all-time favorite bike by a mile), then you see where I'm going with this thought. Further, if you remember the 70s era, when there were so many different brands (Maico, AJS, CZ, Rickman, Bultaco, CCM, etcetera, etcetera), then you see where I'm going in that direction too. Electrification might bring dozens of new bike brands to our world, because there's not all that much more front-end development costs than there are on today's electric mountain bikes. This new bike proves that point, does it not? I mean, who'd ever heard of them before now?

Anyway, this was kinda my point when I said it would be nice if the pessimists could maybe start their own thread and just go bitch and whine there. I think there's much to discuss, many new ideas to ponder that are exciting and uplifting, and spending time and energy trying to defend against things like SilverSpurs' kooky rant that this new bike doesn't actually "exist" and that Tortelli and Hill are only saying good things about the fake, photoshopped, bikes they're riding because they've traded their integrity for a few bucks, is like your car getting stuck in the mud. It just goes nowhere, and it ends up a big mess.

As a motocross racer, I prefer quantifiable movement. I'll be the first to concede that whatever happens to this sport, it will happen with me being irrelevant due to my age. That doesn't mean I don't care, though. I do, and if you ask me, the future is gonna be AMAZING........ provided the AMA and FIM don't screw it up with short-sighted bureaucratic thinking, that is.
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SilverSpurs
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12/23/2021 7:17am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 7:39am
Silas444 wrote:
Here's a thought: it's long been my belief that the weight and rotating mass of 450s has been a principal reason why, when you crash one...
Here's a thought: it's long been my belief that the weight and rotating mass of 450s has been a principal reason why, when you crash one, you crash one very hard. Electric bikes, even heavy ones, feel very different there, as they have no rotating mass - but - they might offer an even bigger opportunity, if only because there hasn't yet been a declaration by the AMA or the FIM as to how electric bikes might be separated into two classes. Well, what if the governing bodies did something akin to what boxing does, which is decide the two classes by the bike's WEIGHT. The "Lightweight" class could have a weight limit for the competing bikes of no more than, say, 210 pounds, and the "Heavyweight" or "Unlimited" class would be 211 ponds or more - up to whatever.

This would do two nifty things, in my opinion. Number one, it would make it so the bike an average person rides (the lightweight bike) would be light as a feather and thus not quite as perilous to crash as even a 250F, and two, it would almost certainly bring back a sort of "works era" to our world, as all the OEMs would no longer be limited in terms of the DISPLACEMENT or POWER of their bikes, only the WEIGHT. They could be as radical as they wish to be in terms of design. If you remember the 80s-era Honda twin-cylinder RC125 with Ribi forks (my all-time favorite bike by a mile), then you see where I'm going with this thought. Further, if you remember the 70s era, when there were so many different brands (Maico, AJS, CZ, Rickman, Bultaco, CCM, etcetera, etcetera), then you see where I'm going in that direction too. Electrification might bring dozens of new bike brands to our world, because there's not all that much more front-end development costs than there are on today's electric mountain bikes. This new bike proves that point, does it not? I mean, who'd ever heard of them before now?

Anyway, this was kinda my point when I said it would be nice if the pessimists could maybe start their own thread and just go bitch and whine there. I think there's much to discuss, many new ideas to ponder that are exciting and uplifting, and spending time and energy trying to defend against things like SilverSpurs' kooky rant that this new bike doesn't actually "exist" and that Tortelli and Hill are only saying good things about the fake, photoshopped, bikes they're riding because they've traded their integrity for a few bucks, is like your car getting stuck in the mud. It just goes nowhere, and it ends up a big mess.

As a motocross racer, I prefer quantifiable movement. I'll be the first to concede that whatever happens to this sport, it will happen with me being irrelevant due to my age. That doesn't mean I don't care, though. I do, and if you ask me, the future is gonna be AMAZING........ provided the AMA and FIM don't screw it up with short-sighted bureaucratic thinking, that is.
Maybe the starry eyed, naive optimists start a thread and leave this one to those a bit more sage and pragmatic?

If these battery bikes are gonna run a professional 30 plus 2 mudder with a restart at marketed power the lightweight ones will need to weigh at least 300 lbs.

Usually the heavier the vehicle, the more severe the crash.
1
14
Timo
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Wichita, KS, USA
12/23/2021 7:36am
Silas444 wrote:
Here's a thought: it's long been my belief that the weight and rotating mass of 450s has been a principal reason why, when you crash one...
Here's a thought: it's long been my belief that the weight and rotating mass of 450s has been a principal reason why, when you crash one, you crash one very hard. Electric bikes, even heavy ones, feel very different there, as they have no rotating mass - but - they might offer an even bigger opportunity, if only because there hasn't yet been a declaration by the AMA or the FIM as to how electric bikes might be separated into two classes. Well, what if the governing bodies did something akin to what boxing does, which is decide the two classes by the bike's WEIGHT. The "Lightweight" class could have a weight limit for the competing bikes of no more than, say, 210 pounds, and the "Heavyweight" or "Unlimited" class would be 211 ponds or more - up to whatever.

This would do two nifty things, in my opinion. Number one, it would make it so the bike an average person rides (the lightweight bike) would be light as a feather and thus not quite as perilous to crash as even a 250F, and two, it would almost certainly bring back a sort of "works era" to our world, as all the OEMs would no longer be limited in terms of the DISPLACEMENT or POWER of their bikes, only the WEIGHT. They could be as radical as they wish to be in terms of design. If you remember the 80s-era Honda twin-cylinder RC125 with Ribi forks (my all-time favorite bike by a mile), then you see where I'm going with this thought. Further, if you remember the 70s era, when there were so many different brands (Maico, AJS, CZ, Rickman, Bultaco, CCM, etcetera, etcetera), then you see where I'm going in that direction too. Electrification might bring dozens of new bike brands to our world, because there's not all that much more front-end development costs than there are on today's electric mountain bikes. This new bike proves that point, does it not? I mean, who'd ever heard of them before now?

Anyway, this was kinda my point when I said it would be nice if the pessimists could maybe start their own thread and just go bitch and whine there. I think there's much to discuss, many new ideas to ponder that are exciting and uplifting, and spending time and energy trying to defend against things like SilverSpurs' kooky rant that this new bike doesn't actually "exist" and that Tortelli and Hill are only saying good things about the fake, photoshopped, bikes they're riding because they've traded their integrity for a few bucks, is like your car getting stuck in the mud. It just goes nowhere, and it ends up a big mess.

As a motocross racer, I prefer quantifiable movement. I'll be the first to concede that whatever happens to this sport, it will happen with me being irrelevant due to my age. That doesn't mean I don't care, though. I do, and if you ask me, the future is gonna be AMAZING........ provided the AMA and FIM don't screw it up with short-sighted bureaucratic thinking, that is.
I've crashed 50's, 125's, 250's, 250f's, and 450's and I think everyone of them felt about the same. Mostly depended on the surface I crashed on and if it was flat, downhill, or into a jump face. Landing into a face and high siding are definitely the worst feeling crashes, didn't matter on the bikes CC's.
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Falcon
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12/23/2021 8:28am
The haters should be happy that somebody is trying to build a better mousetrap. Maybe this bike will be the greatest thing ever, maybe not. Either way, it's a start. I definitely want to ride one.
1
2
Silas444
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12/23/2021 8:33am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 4:26pm
Timo wrote:
I've crashed 50's, 125's, 250's, 250f's, and 450's and I think everyone of them felt about the same. Mostly depended on the surface I crashed on...
I've crashed 50's, 125's, 250's, 250f's, and 450's and I think everyone of them felt about the same. Mostly depended on the surface I crashed on and if it was flat, downhill, or into a jump face. Landing into a face and high siding are definitely the worst feeling crashes, didn't matter on the bikes CC's.
Right. Say, let's take a poll, shall we? Let's say you're going to purposefully crash on a huge downhill jump and you have a choice between doing it on a 50cc bike or a 450cc bike. Let's see if both bikes poll the same, shall we? Ugh.

And that thing about the mudder with the restart. Good grief. I remember living in NYC back in 1990 right before the Iraq War. I was having dinner with two friends and they said the Iraqis were gonna kick our ass because we didn't have tanks that could go through sand. I said, "You really think we don't have any tanks that can go through sand?," and they replied, "As usual, your optimism is blinding you and making you SO NAIVE. We saw it on 60 Minutes last night, The Iraqis have an elite guard who are better than our soldiers and our tanks can't go through sand. We can't win."

Turns out they were right, and thats why we're all now ruled by Saddam Hussein. Wait, that didn't happen? Amazing. And now, the only electric motocross bike that will ever be able to endure a mudder will weigh 300 pounds and I'm a naive optimist to think otherwise, Stamp it.

Tiresome, just so goddam tiresome.
5
5
12/23/2021 9:21am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 9:29am
fs wrote:
take a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoWQ54NpU0&t=715s MXR pack has 4*21*6 = 504 cells at 10.8Wh per cell (VTC6) = 5.4kwh The pack also has cells that don't...
take a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BoWQ54NpU0&t=715s

MXR pack has 4*21*6 = 504 cells at 10.8Wh per cell (VTC6) = 5.4kwh

The pack also has cells that don't have contact with the thermal casing which means there is a long path to conduct the heat out.

Stark pack is here at 10:02 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE&t=986s
Each cell bottom goes into the metal case. Heat path is a lot shorter than with the MXR.


Every cell in all 4 modules in the Alta pack is connected to an aluminum plate that is thermally connected to the exterior battery case. However, since the cells are oriented vertical (standing up), the cells in the middle/center of the pack do not get cooled as efficiently as the cells on the perimeter, which can lead to thermal limiting for faster riders.

There are a few design differences with the Stark pack as far as I can see from the CAD images.

First, it appears they are using a larger cell than the 18650; probably 21700's. There appear to be 400 of them, and the math checks out. 400cells x 3.75v x 4.0aH = 6kWh. At a maximum charge probably 4.1v, 6.5kWh? Depends on the actual cells they use. These cells can go up to a maximum of 4.2v but you can't run the bike that way since you can't allow regen (engine braking) to pump more energy into the cells at that point. Would be kinda sketchy riding your first lap without engine braking.

The second major difference is that, unlike the Alta pack where the cells are standing up vertically in a module and 4 modules sandwiched together, the Stark pack has the cells laying horizontally and in 2 case halves, which means every cell is in direct contact with the exterior case with the same distance to airflow. Thermally this should allow for more efficient and even cooling of the cells, but there still will be a temperature gradient where the warmest areas will be in the internal center of the pack.

Stark pack for reference:

9
Fog 25
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Castaic, CA, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2021 9:57am
Fog 25 wrote:
Not to be a Endo here. I’ve been riding the best E motocross bike that’s available now for the last four years a Alta MXR. Probably...
Not to be a Endo here. I’ve been riding the best E motocross bike that’s available now for the last four years a Alta MXR. Probably the best motorcycle that I’ve owned in 53 years of riding and racing. If the stark ever is available to the general public and it meets the hype then I will purchase one.
Ask the richest man on the planet where is the E truck? I guess all those deposits went to the rocket to space.
How much more life does your battery have? How much to replace? What type of riding have you used your Alta for?
I have 120 hours on my MXR, 1900+ miles of motocross track riding. At a good practice pace in map 4 I can run 40 two 45 minutes on the battery. Alta claim 1000 cycles on the battery so if I figure a full cycle at every 40 minutes of riding then I would have around 800 cycles left. But it’s like any motorcycle it can become a boat Anchor anytime. There is no Alta battery replacement available but there’s a few guys that can change out the cells if needed. Have a friend with 200+hours on his and still going strong.
E-motocross bike is not for everyone it has its advantages and disadvantages. It’s all about having fun.
12
1
Silas444
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12/23/2021 10:22am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 12:47pm
Okay, so I just took my dogs for a walk through the woods on my property, and it occurred to me that all those people like me who were posting positive thoughts, have simply left and bought their Stark Vargs. They have predictably abandoned you because that's what they, that's what WE, always do. We don't bother with you, because you're like a pest, like a gnat, like mold on bread. We then go on with our lives up there in those houses you admire from afar, houses (like mine) that have car and motorcycle collections and feature motocross tracks set in picturesque settings that involve hills and valleys and old-growth trees. I tried not to, tried my level-best to give you a taste of the outlook you should adopt, but it appears it was fruitless - so I'll go. I'm off to buy my Varg (60hp, grey) and then to continue living this life, the life of a man whose wildest dreams are tucked snugly in his back pocket.

.Before I depart, though, I'll leave you with a few simple questions:

1. What if you never hit another false neutral because you COULDN'T?
2. What if your bike never seized it's crank because it COULDN'T?
3. What if your local track held Saturday Night races and no one complained about noise because they COULDN'T?
4. What if YOU and YOUR FRIENDS held races in a nearby field and no one complained because they COULDN'T?
5. Lastly, what might happen to your life if you stopped conflating being pragmatic with being sage and being curious with being negative?

My outlook on life was once so dark and dour it almost killed me. I barely - BARELY - made it out of my twenties. In a hospital bed long ago, I vowed to change my outlook once and for all, and against all odds, I did it. I embraced blind faith and bold optimism like they could cure my incurable disease, and they did exactly that, despite the utter impossibility of it. Forty years ago I was told I only had a few years to live. Optimism healed me. Learn from that, young moto-heads, and run headlong toward your future like it's full of guaranteed bliss, for like life itself, it will likely mirror your approach.

Off I go. Be well, and take care who you let bend your ear. Bye now.
32
2
12/23/2021 10:50am
Silas444 wrote:
Okay, so I just took my dogs for a walk through the woods on my property, and it occurred to me that all those people like...
Okay, so I just took my dogs for a walk through the woods on my property, and it occurred to me that all those people like me who were posting positive thoughts, have simply left and bought their Stark Vargs. They have predictably abandoned you because that's what they, that's what WE, always do. We don't bother with you, because you're like a pest, like a gnat, like mold on bread. We then go on with our lives up there in those houses you admire from afar, houses (like mine) that have car and motorcycle collections and feature motocross tracks set in picturesque settings that involve hills and valleys and old-growth trees. I tried not to, tried my level-best to give you a taste of the outlook you should adopt, but it appears it was fruitless - so I'll go. I'm off to buy my Varg (60hp, grey) and then to continue living this life, the life of a man whose wildest dreams are tucked snugly in his back pocket.

.Before I depart, though, I'll leave you with a few simple questions:

1. What if you never hit another false neutral because you COULDN'T?
2. What if your bike never seized it's crank because it COULDN'T?
3. What if your local track held Saturday Night races and no one complained about noise because they COULDN'T?
4. What if YOU and YOUR FRIENDS held races in a nearby field and no one complained because they COULDN'T?
5. Lastly, what might happen to your life if you stopped conflating being pragmatic with being sage and being curious with being negative?

My outlook on life was once so dark and dour it almost killed me. I barely - BARELY - made it out of my twenties. In a hospital bed long ago, I vowed to change my outlook once and for all, and against all odds, I did it. I embraced blind faith and bold optimism like they could cure my incurable disease, and they did exactly that, despite the utter impossibility of it. Forty years ago I was told I only had a few years to live. Optimism healed me. Learn from that, young moto-heads, and run headlong toward your future like it's full of guaranteed bliss, for like life itself, it will likely mirror your approach.

Off I go. Be well, and take care who you let bend your ear. Bye now.
I like that approach! I have a simmilar one after an accident in where I almost lose my leg soooo yeah let´s keep it.. it´s way better and it opens a lot of doors and good things happen always!!

I may buy one in a few years, right now I am damn happy with my YZ250F.. maybe my 4 years old is going to start with an electric bike and he will be happy I'm sure and it´s going to be all he knows.

I consider myself lucky to have ridden 2 strokes and 4 strokes and maybe electric in years, what is not to like???
6
Falcon
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12/23/2021 12:01pm
Silas has a good point about attitude. Your brain has an uncanny way of adapting to it. If you think life is awesome, you'll be correct. If you think it is shit, you'll also be correct.
12
1
byke
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12/23/2021 12:44pm
Falcon wrote:
Silas has a good point about attitude. Your brain has an uncanny way of adapting to it. If you think life is awesome, you'll be correct...
Silas has a good point about attitude. Your brain has an uncanny way of adapting to it. If you think life is awesome, you'll be correct. If you think it is shit, you'll also be correct.
2
moto839
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Amity, OR, USA
12/23/2021 1:47pm
1. What if you never hit another false neutral because you COULDN'T?
2. What if your bike never seized it's crank because it COULDN'T?

So E Bikes don't break?

Do they need a rider?
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15
Falcon
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Menifee, CA, USA
12/23/2021 1:52pm
Just a thought...
How many newbies are going to enter the sport because of electricity? "Oh, now that off-road motorcycles aren't polluting the Earth, I think I'll get one. I may as well get the 80HP version, because my car has 120 HP. I can handle it. Just twist the throttle WFO - the bike does all the work." Whiskey throttle follows...
3
yota
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Crystal River, FL, USA
12/23/2021 1:58pm
this thread has devolved into a waste of time. it was fun in the beginning.
6
1
12/23/2021 2:18pm
Falcon wrote:
Just a thought... How many newbies are going to enter the sport because of electricity? "Oh, now that off-road motorcycles aren't polluting the Earth, I think...
Just a thought...
How many newbies are going to enter the sport because of electricity? "Oh, now that off-road motorcycles aren't polluting the Earth, I think I'll get one. I may as well get the 80HP version, because my car has 120 HP. I can handle it. Just twist the throttle WFO - the bike does all the work." Whiskey throttle follows...
People need to understand that the bike can produce UP TO 80hp. That doesnt mean its going to act like a highly modified 450cc engine that produces 80hp thats just a handful to ride all the time. Nor does it mean you are forced to have that max 80hp available in the current power setting. Nor does it mean anyone really is going to use the max power mode. The bike will come with various preconfigured power maps and youll be able to configure your own.

My fiance who had never ridden a dirtbike before (had street experience) was able to hop on my Alta MXR that has "up to 50hp", and within minutes felt confident to go roll around a kids track. Why? Because in map 1 it doesnt have nearly the amount of max power and acceleration as the fastest power map does.

Thats one of the advantages of electric. 1 bike can be tame enough for the 0hr beginner all the way up to the person who has been riding their whole life, and everyone inbetween, all due to how flexibile the power mapping is. Not only that, but no shifting, no clutch work, and smooth predictable power makes riding much less scary for beginners. And thats a good thing. We want more people joining the sport.

Go back and watch some of the footage from the early Alta demo days and youll hear average Joe Motocross say things like "map 2 was plenty fast, map 4 is to just impress your buddies!"
10
1
12/23/2021 2:45pm
Every cell in all 4 modules in the Alta pack is connected to an aluminum plate that is thermally connected to the exterior battery case. However...
Every cell in all 4 modules in the Alta pack is connected to an aluminum plate that is thermally connected to the exterior battery case. However, since the cells are oriented vertical (standing up), the cells in the middle/center of the pack do not get cooled as efficiently as the cells on the perimeter, which can lead to thermal limiting for faster riders.

There are a few design differences with the Stark pack as far as I can see from the CAD images.

First, it appears they are using a larger cell than the 18650; probably 21700's. There appear to be 400 of them, and the math checks out. 400cells x 3.75v x 4.0aH = 6kWh. At a maximum charge probably 4.1v, 6.5kWh? Depends on the actual cells they use. These cells can go up to a maximum of 4.2v but you can't run the bike that way since you can't allow regen (engine braking) to pump more energy into the cells at that point. Would be kinda sketchy riding your first lap without engine braking.

The second major difference is that, unlike the Alta pack where the cells are standing up vertically in a module and 4 modules sandwiched together, the Stark pack has the cells laying horizontally and in 2 case halves, which means every cell is in direct contact with the exterior case with the same distance to airflow. Thermally this should allow for more efficient and even cooling of the cells, but there still will be a temperature gradient where the warmest areas will be in the internal center of the pack.

Stark pack for reference:

Please don’t bring data to an emotional argument.
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face biter
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12/23/2021 3:29pm Edited Date/Time 12/23/2021 3:30pm
Maybe the starry eyed, naive optimists start a thread and leave this one to those a bit more sage and pragmatic? If these battery bikes are...
Maybe the starry eyed, naive optimists start a thread and leave this one to those a bit more sage and pragmatic?

If these battery bikes are gonna run a professional 30 plus 2 mudder with a restart at marketed power the lightweight ones will need to weigh at least 300 lbs.

Usually the heavier the vehicle, the more severe the crash.
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bigk218
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12/23/2021 5:08pm
and we still haven't seen a Triumph...

Impressed
We have t shirts though
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MalaFide
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12/23/2021 7:11pm
Lurkre 4 yrs.
Im waitin for my tesla truck an now seeing ill be lukcy to get it In 2023
If musk can't make a truck happen since 2019 $100 downe, no chips battery design fails ECT how'll newbs make a bike in 6 monhts?
Wotn happen
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Last Braaap
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12/24/2021 12:57am
MalaFide wrote:
Lurkre 4 yrs. Im waitin for my tesla truck an now seeing ill be lukcy to get it In 2023 If musk can't make a truck...
Lurkre 4 yrs.
Im waitin for my tesla truck an now seeing ill be lukcy to get it In 2023
If musk can't make a truck happen since 2019 $100 downe, no chips battery design fails ECT how'll newbs make a bike in 6 monhts?
Wotn happen
The difference is that Musk is a scam artist since Day 1 (for example he isn't founder of PayPal nor Tesla, he is crazy genius but his stage speech/hype is 100% sociopat stuff).

The team behind Stark atleast has mx background... Also you don't need that much electronics on dirtbike. (if cruise control, abs, traction control, air conditioning and massage seat isn't included in options ofc) Phones are still being made so that's like 50% of the chips you need for varg right there. It is reasonable to expect delays but comparing it to stainless steel meme truck is ridiculous.
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12/24/2021 1:14am Edited Date/Time 12/24/2021 1:14am
moto839 wrote:
1. What if you never hit another false neutral because you COULDN'T? 2. What if your bike never seized it's crank because it COULDN'T? So E...
1. What if you never hit another false neutral because you COULDN'T?
2. What if your bike never seized it's crank because it COULDN'T?

So E Bikes don't break?

Do they need a rider?
The possible mechanical fatalities of electric dirtbike i can see:

- snapped chain -> cause = you are moron or run the chains rockstar husky did in 2021 (sincere condolences)
- torn off sprocket -> cause = you are moron and don't torque your sprocket bolts properly
- electro motor bearings going bye bye-> cause = there are (most likely) three bearings in the motor but since you were sipping on Kool aid and blasting tunes into your helmet you didn't hear them howl loudly last 30 minutes before the fatal accident

I encourage others to add other mechanical failures (the complete destruction of rotor during use seemed unlikely to me so i didn't mentioned it; but i see it as likely as grenading the engine of your brand spanking new factory edition VetC class bike)
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MalaFide
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12/24/2021 2:00am
The difference is that Musk is a scam artist since Day 1 (for example he isn't founder of PayPal nor Tesla, he is crazy genius but...
The difference is that Musk is a scam artist since Day 1 (for example he isn't founder of PayPal nor Tesla, he is crazy genius but his stage speech/hype is 100% sociopat stuff).

The team behind Stark atleast has mx background... Also you don't need that much electronics on dirtbike. (if cruise control, abs, traction control, air conditioning and massage seat isn't included in options ofc) Phones are still being made so that's like 50% of the chips you need for varg right there. It is reasonable to expect delays but comparing it to stainless steel meme truck is ridiculous.
dammit, shoulda come here first togit the lodonw
12/24/2021 2:06am
and we still haven't seen a Triumph...

Impressed
bigk218 wrote:
We have t shirts though
Ricky has a shirt. Not sure anyone else does yet.
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robkinuk
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12/24/2021 4:36am
More chance of seeing these on track than a new Triumph motocross bike?
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Motofinne
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12/24/2021 5:57am
robkinuk wrote:
More chance of seeing these on track than a new Triumph motocross bike?
The media introduction/test day is not that far away, only a couple of months. So i guess so, this will see the light of the day before a Triumph.
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