AER fork - first ride, do not feel comfortable

Edited Date/Time 12/6/2021 7:50pm
Rode my new-to-me 2017 KTM 250sx for the first time today and love almost everything about the bike. Except how the front end feels. The forks didn't feel like they were traveling too fast through stroke, or too slow - they just felt like they were riding high in the stroke. This was especially apparent in corners.

Do folks get more comfortable with AER forks the more you ride them?

If not, I saw RT has a conversion kit but it's not cheap. I have a '16 KTM 500 EXC - could I potentially swap forks on these two bikes?
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11/27/2021 6:54pm
What did you have your air pressure set at? Clickers aswell?
AJ565
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11/27/2021 6:57pm
Remember us saying to get them revalved? This is part of why. ‘17 was the first year for them and they got updated every year after and that stuff transfers to the old forks and makes them work and feel a lot better. Also the rear suspension, get it setup for you. The rear suspension being either too stiff or too soft for you will make the forks feel like absolute garbage even if they are revalved for you. It’s crazy how much it effects the front suspension. Run the sag between 103-105 and set the forks at the second line.
3
11/27/2021 7:05pm
AJ565 wrote:
Remember us saying to get them revalved? This is part of why. ‘17 was the first year for them and they got updated every year after...
Remember us saying to get them revalved? This is part of why. ‘17 was the first year for them and they got updated every year after and that stuff transfers to the old forks and makes them work and feel a lot better. Also the rear suspension, get it setup for you. The rear suspension being either too stiff or too soft for you will make the forks feel like absolute garbage even if they are revalved for you. It’s crazy how much it effects the front suspension. Run the sag between 103-105 and set the forks at the second line.
Setting sag today at 105mm deffo helped. Also backed out the rebound since the rear end felt like it was packing. The rear feels pretty dang good.

1
11/27/2021 10:38pm
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel.
I'm 155lbs and on my 17 350 have ended up at 125PSI. This, combined with a revalve makes the forks quite usable.

Being realistic they don't work as well as the Ohlins cartridges in my 17 125SX or the SSS forks of my YZ250, but they're far from being the poo that many have made them out to be.

The Shop

11/28/2021 5:21am
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel. I'm 155lbs and on my 17...
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel.
I'm 155lbs and on my 17 350 have ended up at 125PSI. This, combined with a revalve makes the forks quite usable.

Being realistic they don't work as well as the Ohlins cartridges in my 17 125SX or the SSS forks of my YZ250, but they're far from being the poo that many have made them out to be.
Matt is your 17 125 using the TTX22 conversion kit?

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-team-tested-coppersmith-aero-hybrid-…

I absolutely plan to spend more time with stock AER setup, but I am not a huge fan of potentially having to fiddle with air pressure, compression and rebound clickers for every new track or riding area.
Wiscomx
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11/28/2021 6:29am
I had better results with more air pressure and adjusting clickers out to get what I was looking for, adding some float to the mid valve helps, currently on the coppersmith stuff, its a good fork just needs some setup.
11/28/2021 6:37am
As mentioned above, in stock form the 17/18 needs some updates. I used the MX tech midvalve for 60 hours or so and it was a big improvement. They no longer sell it but there are several other options. I would check out the JBI setup, if you comfortable working on the forks it is a very affordable option.

Bruce372
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11/28/2021 7:14am
You've read the internet and decided before you even rode them, they are crap. Now one ride in, on a poorly setup bike they are as crap for sure, so go spend the $2000 that's needed to make it work.
4
Bruce372
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11/28/2021 7:30am
crawfishoo wrote:
As mentioned above, in stock form the 17/18 needs some updates. I used the MX tech midvalve for 60 hours or so and it was a...
As mentioned above, in stock form the 17/18 needs some updates. I used the MX tech midvalve for 60 hours or so and it was a big improvement. They no longer sell it but there are several other options. I would check out the JBI setup, if you comfortable working on the forks it is a very affordable option.

Did you swap the midvalve on a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? Our 2 strokes both gave check valve instead and I found it easier to setup so I converted the 4 stroke to a check valve also.

If the 2017 smoker came with a check valve also, I would just fit the updated 2018 air seal and seal head and be done.

Don't forget, the oil level is adjustable on these forks like regular ones.
m21racing
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11/28/2021 7:37am
As mentioned before, the upgrades to the aer are adaptable to the early model fork. That's a perk to give the air platform a shot. There are reasonable mods that don't break the bank, and give great performance. I think 10% of the cost of a new bike is a reasonable budget for suspension mods. Obviously, you can spend more, but it's got a good baseline to build from.
1
11/28/2021 9:01am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2021 5:20am
Bruce372 wrote:
You've read the internet and decided before you even rode them, they are crap. Now one ride in, on a poorly setup bike they are as...
You've read the internet and decided before you even rode them, they are crap. Now one ride in, on a poorly setup bike they are as crap for sure, so go spend the $2000 that's needed to make it work.
Settle down edge lord.

I knew this bike had air forks, but no actually did not research AER forks before buying I just assumed that KTM would have awesome suspension.

When I rode the bike on a track for the first time the front end did not feel comfortable to me, it did not want to settle in corners and just felt weird. I have not checked or set the air pressure so obviously, before I go and spend $2,000 on fork upgrades, I will obviously do that. I got them working slightly better by backing out compression all the way I'm thinking that there's too much air pressure.

The rear sag was also too little so the previous rider must have weighed a lot more than I do. I set the sag to 105mm and that also helped a little.

Now that I know AER forks require fiddling from track to track, and from conditions to conditions, I am just thinking ahead for plan b and c. This is what intelligent people do everyday in life when potential problems are encountered.



3
FGR01
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Fantasy
11/28/2021 9:33am
Yeah, air pressure before anything else. Not even worth trying to fiddle with anything until you know what pressure you have and set it reasonably for your weight/skill/speed.

Once set up, the AER forks do not require excessive tuning track to track. I basically never touch mine now that I have my settings where I want them. I just bleed and re-verify pressure each ride.
3
yz133rider
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11/28/2021 9:42am
Ooof. I’d be afraid to ride one without even checking the pressure.

Start there lol.
2
sandman768
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11/28/2021 10:00am
Make sure you bleed both forks also using the top cap screws….
2
11/28/2021 10:53am
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel. I'm 155lbs and on my 17...
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel.
I'm 155lbs and on my 17 350 have ended up at 125PSI. This, combined with a revalve makes the forks quite usable.

Being realistic they don't work as well as the Ohlins cartridges in my 17 125SX or the SSS forks of my YZ250, but they're far from being the poo that many have made them out to be.

Pirate421
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11/28/2021 5:02pm
You have a lot of travel to work with it looks like. If all else fails and you want to do a spring conversion I went with mx tech gen 1 lucky kit. Had it installed and valved for me and they did the rear shock with bladder kit and all of it was well under $2000, including shipping. This was with a tuner in Ohio.

I also rode with a guy a few weeks ago who does suspension on the side. He used to race super cross a few years ago and was telling me stories about how he tested with ktm and they were able to basically get a bunch of insight on the AER forks. He said he revalves his personal ktms and loves how they work.
11/28/2021 6:59pm
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel. I'm 155lbs and on my 17...
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel.
I'm 155lbs and on my 17 350 have ended up at 125PSI. This, combined with a revalve makes the forks quite usable.

Being realistic they don't work as well as the Ohlins cartridges in my 17 125SX or the SSS forks of my YZ250, but they're far from being the poo that many have made them out to be.
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/28/520186/s1200_260775675_10158810553939067_3369196154396679916_n.jpg[/img]

You want about half that distance, throw a zip-tie on there to make it easier to measure after each moto.

When you're doing your initial setup, there's a bit of playing around with the pressure and clickers. No different than a spring fork, save for getting the PSI (which is your spring rate) correct. Once that's set, it's just a normal fork. Checking fork PSI when you unload to go riding is no different than checking tire pressure- it's not normally off by much, if any.



Yes, my 125 has the TTX22 cartridges. They work well, but not as well as some KYB stuff I've tried out. I'm leaning toward one of the MX-Tech drop-in solutions for my 350. Got to sell my YZ250 first.
1
Bruce372
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11/28/2021 10:08pm
Set your sag first! Smile
11/29/2021 5:26am
You want about half that distance, throw a zip-tie on there to make it easier to measure after each moto. When you're doing your initial setup...
You want about half that distance, throw a zip-tie on there to make it easier to measure after each moto.

When you're doing your initial setup, there's a bit of playing around with the pressure and clickers. No different than a spring fork, save for getting the PSI (which is your spring rate) correct. Once that's set, it's just a normal fork. Checking fork PSI when you unload to go riding is no different than checking tire pressure- it's not normally off by much, if any.



Yes, my 125 has the TTX22 cartridges. They work well, but not as well as some KYB stuff I've tried out. I'm leaning toward one of the MX-Tech drop-in solutions for my 350. Got to sell my YZ250 first.
Should have the WP fork pressure tool before the weekend.

How does a properly set up TTX22 compare to a properly set up stock AER system?
mx317
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11/29/2021 8:06am
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel. I'm 155lbs and on my 17...
Keep reducing the air pressure until your travel marker (o-ring, zip-tie) shows you're using all but about 1" of travel.
I'm 155lbs and on my 17 350 have ended up at 125PSI. This, combined with a revalve makes the forks quite usable.

Being realistic they don't work as well as the Ohlins cartridges in my 17 125SX or the SSS forks of my YZ250, but they're far from being the poo that many have made them out to be.
Matt is your 17 125 using the TTX22 conversion kit? https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-team-tested-coppersmith-aero-hybrid-spring-conversion-ktm-fork-kit/ I absolutely plan to spend more time with stock AER setup, but I am not...
Matt is your 17 125 using the TTX22 conversion kit?

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-team-tested-coppersmith-aero-hybrid-…

I absolutely plan to spend more time with stock AER setup, but I am not a huge fan of potentially having to fiddle with air pressure, compression and rebound clickers for every new track or riding area.
This is what I am using. I really like my Ohlins Hybrid kit by Coppersmith. I'm running about 56-58 PSI on the air side.
mx317
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11/29/2021 8:09am
Should have the WP fork pressure tool before the weekend.

How does a properly set up TTX22 compare to a properly set up stock AER system?
Best of both worlds. Supple on small bumps with great bottoming resistance while still having the adjustability of air.
1
11/29/2021 8:36am
mx317 wrote:
Best of both worlds. Supple on small bumps with great bottoming resistance while still having the adjustability of air.
Are we talking night and day difference or a minor change only fast guys will probably notice?
mx317
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11/29/2021 9:17am
mx317 wrote:
Best of both worlds. Supple on small bumps with great bottoming resistance while still having the adjustability of air.
Are we talking night and day difference or a minor change only fast guys will probably notice?
It seemed a lot of difference to me and mine is a 2020 FC450. The forks have got better every year, so you should see a major change. The biggest difference to me was how the front wheel follows the ground while tracking into a corner. It will have better traction and just don't beat you up as bad. It is not real cheap, but much less than most other conversions and works well. It is $895 for the kit including spring and another $100 if he installs it.
1
GaryC1
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Fantasy
11/29/2021 9:57am
Yes, didn't realize AER air side needed bleeding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSOd7SHvYPk
Just to confirm, both sides need bleeding like any traditional fork. I know the video shows that but just checking because you only said about the AER side needing bled. As people have said there is so much to tinker with in these forks to get them working how you would like so good luck and enjoy the new steed!
1
Jeff_Brines
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11/29/2021 2:33pm
My $0.02.

Until you've set pressure to your weight, rebuilt them to make sure everything is working properly/is fresh, I wouldn't consider anything.

My guess is you need to drop PSI which will help get your weight were you need it. If you find a spot you like but are bottoming excessively, you can add more oil to the fork outers (ramps up sooner).

Regardless, I'm speculating. Start at the manufacturer's suggested baseline. Tune from there. Chances are we can get it with you spending no more than the cost of some oil. That said, if you don't like something, chime in; there are a myriad of options for you, ranging from very simple revalves to full on cartridge/spring swaps.
Bruce372
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11/29/2021 4:16pm
I've got a new set of internals from a 2019 that come with updated air piston etc that will drop straight in if you are interested in buying.
1
11/30/2021 8:08am
You want about half that distance, throw a zip-tie on there to make it easier to measure after each moto. When you're doing your initial setup...
You want about half that distance, throw a zip-tie on there to make it easier to measure after each moto.

When you're doing your initial setup, there's a bit of playing around with the pressure and clickers. No different than a spring fork, save for getting the PSI (which is your spring rate) correct. Once that's set, it's just a normal fork. Checking fork PSI when you unload to go riding is no different than checking tire pressure- it's not normally off by much, if any.



Yes, my 125 has the TTX22 cartridges. They work well, but not as well as some KYB stuff I've tried out. I'm leaning toward one of the MX-Tech drop-in solutions for my 350. Got to sell my YZ250 first.
Should have the WP fork pressure tool before the weekend.

How does a properly set up TTX22 compare to a properly set up stock AER system?
The TTX22 does everything better. Not a huge difference, but a bit better in small bump absorption, a bit more forgiving in slap downs, and a bit more front end feel, and I'm certainly not a fast guy. Getting the air pressure and clickers helped, and the revalve made it pretty good. If I were going to keep the air forks I'd at least upgrade to the newer internal components.

Admittedly, the Ohlins is in a 125 and the 350 has the air, but I recently decided to sell the 125, so maybe we'll drop the inserts in the Husky and I'll have a much better back to back comparison.
11/30/2021 8:21am
Bruce372 wrote:
I've got a new set of internals from a 2019 that come with updated air piston etc that will drop straight in if you are interested...
I've got a new set of internals from a 2019 that come with updated air piston etc that will drop straight in if you are interested in buying.
I'm interested. DM's suck here, i_dig_dirt@agirlandhertractor.com
1
Falcon
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11/30/2021 8:50am
One thing to remember is that air ramps up much faster than springs. That, in my opinion, is what makes lots of people not like the air forks - when they are set up to work properly in the beginning of the stroke, they get too firm in the middle and bottom parts of the stroke and feel too stiff.

You can usually go with softer compression damping because the air spring has lots of bottoming resistance. That's where I'd start, if I were you. Back your compression clickers out several clicks and see if that helps. (Also, definitely start with the recommended pressures for your weight and speed.)
1

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