Bad Wreck this past weekend, can’t for the life of me figure out why.

bh
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Long story short I come up to this table and a fairly decent size kicker/pothole, I think to my self no problem it’s just a little 15 ft table. Next thing I know the bike is going into the biggest endo I’ve ever been involved in. I’m not even at the max height of my jump jet and I have already stepped through the bars.

I end up landing on my feet around the bottom of the landing, pretty much in the flat. By some series of misfortunate events I end up skipping across the ground and by some miracle I end up having my humerus sticking out of my arm. I guess either my bike hit me pretty hard or I hit the ground pretty hard.

I am still sitting here 5 days later dumbfounded at how I went into such a huge endo in such a small amount of time and off such a small jump.

Few factors to consider.
1. I was on a woods setup
2. Im a pretty big fella, to the tune of about 6’ 200lbs
3. I didn’t slow down at all off the jump
4. Bike is a 21 yz250
5. MX1 track at Durhamtown

Scenario 1: maybe it’s just a bit of bad luck. Maybe it was the perfect stork of a kicker, me being a tad too far on the front end, and the suspension being soft enough to send me into this big of an endo.

Scenario 2: I did send a pretty massive jump to flat earlier in the day. Maybe I bent my shock shaft and the shock froze mid stroke after hitting to pothole. But by the same token I think these things have an 18mm shaft I would think that they are near impossible to bend.

Scenario 3: I’m just a goon who has no idea what he’s doing. While this is possible I like to consider myself a very safe and calculated rider. I typically can go 15-20 hours without so much as a tip over.

Who knows. I’m just having a tough time because I felt like I did nothing wrong and hit the jump the same as I did 10 time before and had a totally different outcome.

And sorry if I sound like a babbling idiot. These pain meds are pretty strong lol.

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Zycki11
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11/4/2021 12:46pm
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
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Fourth_Floor
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Saint Marys, PA, USA
11/4/2021 1:06pm
Zycki11 wrote:
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can...
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
What he said.
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08r1dilla
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howell, NJ, USA
11/4/2021 1:36pm
Your front wheel went over the kicker, your rear wheel went in it, throwing you over?
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mark_swart
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Chapin, SC, USA
11/4/2021 1:56pm
BH NOOOOOOO!!!! Man I'm sorry to hear this!

After seeing you ride and being around you, it definitely ain't Scenario 3.

It think it's also pretty rare to even have this type of crash on a two stroke. How much softer did they go on your springs for that woods setup? It almost sounds like it popped out of gear or something to endo so soon after takeoff but I think you probably would have noticed that when it happened.

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The Shop

bh
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11/4/2021 2:12pm
Zycki11 wrote:
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can...
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
Yea looking back on it, me on a woods set on a moto track was like giving a toddler a gun lol. I was and still am baffled by it because I thought I had found the limit of the suspension, but apparently not lol. I had put about 2 hours on the stuff on moto and it and what I did notice about 3 laps before the wreck was it would get pretty low in the stroke when I would charge braking bumps pretty hard.
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neverwas
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11/4/2021 2:15pm
Scenario 1 is most likely but scenario 3 is a possibility. Tongue
Heal up soon.
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bh
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11/4/2021 2:18pm
mark_swart wrote:
BH NOOOOOOO!!!! Man I'm sorry to hear this! After seeing you ride and being around you, it definitely ain't Scenario 3. It think it's also pretty...
BH NOOOOOOO!!!! Man I'm sorry to hear this!

After seeing you ride and being around you, it definitely ain't Scenario 3.

It think it's also pretty rare to even have this type of crash on a two stroke. How much softer did they go on your springs for that woods setup? It almost sounds like it popped out of gear or something to endo so soon after takeoff but I think you probably would have noticed that when it happened.

Yea it was a pretty eventful day lol. I'm gonna have to tell you about it the next time I see you.

I definitely know it wasn't out of gear because I could still feel the wheel spinning when I had it wise open right before I stepped through. and its same spring rate, just different valving, and to be honest it would handle the low shaft speed stuff relatively well like jump landings.
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Jbulz
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11/4/2021 2:19pm
Zycki11 wrote:
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can...
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
Almost. Rebound won't endo you, but if you hit a kicker while bottomed the chassis has to absorb it. Front wheel already off the ground so the bike rotates about it's center of mass.

The shock bottomed on the face before the kicker. Since there was no suspension travel left to absorb the kicker it hammered the back of the bike up and caused you to endo.
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spimx
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Port Isabel, TX, USA
11/4/2021 2:22pm
Why do you go directly through the pot hole? So many kids are crashing just because they don't take the time to look for the smooth line up the face. Coming in or out of a turn taking the rough line is not bad, taking the rough line up a face is bad news. If I'm hitting a sketchy jump gave I try to make myself long so I don't endo.
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ti473
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11/4/2021 2:22pm
Front end slip, rear end kick
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Rotaholic
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11/4/2021 2:33pm
Normally when people dont want to endo they get further on the back of the bike, people tend to tighten up and this is actually the worst thing to do as it loads the shock up even more, after leaving the jump all that sprung energy has to release causing you to pitch forward.
Rebound settings on the shock have a massive effect on jumping also
resetjet
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Tampa, FL, USA
11/4/2021 2:38pm
Thats what reed said after the chadapult.
bh
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11/4/2021 2:44pm
ti473 wrote:
Front end slip, rear end kick
Should have been scenario 4 lol.
garagedog
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11/4/2021 3:13pm
seat bounce physics?
Radical
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San Diego, CA, USA
11/4/2021 5:05pm
My guess is that the pothole compressed your shock to the point of bottoming out. As you exited the pothole, your rear end would've started rotating the bike forward. Then as the shock was rebounding, you hit the kicker which accelerated the rebound (and rotation).
I wouldn't expect rebound settings to be the issue, but compression and/or spring rate.
If you didn't bottom out, the bike would've behaved as you expected.
Set your sag, then check your static sag. At that point you'll know if you need heavier springs or to just adjust the clickers.
cwel11
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11/4/2021 5:10pm
Definitely one of the most frustrating things when you crash and have no definitive cause. Hard to fix a flaw when you’re unsure of what you need to fix. Option 4 should be “shit happens”. And it does in this game. Heal up 👍🏻
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SCC
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11/4/2021 5:51pm
There are no tables. That would imply they are flat take off to landing (you know like a table). All are dished out in the middle to punish /injure those who don't clear them. You said you came up short.
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SKIDLID
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11/4/2021 5:56pm
I had a crash last August, for some reason I never turned missed the corner and drove through a fence that separated the track from property line. Never knew why for 5 months. I had major injuries (3 broken vertebrae in my neck, broken jaw, broken rib and Tramatic brain injury). I kept telling my doctors something is wrong with my shoulder too. 5 months later during my MRI my memory came back enough to remember hitting the jump and telling myself I just popped out my shoulder. This caused my throttle arm to get stuck wide open and I never turned and drove through the fence. The not understanding why this occurred bothered me more than the injuries at times. You may figure out why yet.
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Eric7oneone
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11/4/2021 6:03pm
I had a similar crash that left me wondering this spring. At Daytona amateur supercross. Hit the section same way I had in practice and the first three laps. Last lap and I did half a front flip and separated my shoulder. Could not figure out why. While healing up took my suspension apart and I had a blown shock bladder.
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RonSkj
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11/4/2021 6:25pm
I had a similar crash that left me wondering this spring. At Daytona amateur supercross. Hit the section same way I had in practice and the...
I had a similar crash that left me wondering this spring. At Daytona amateur supercross. Hit the section same way I had in practice and the first three laps. Last lap and I did half a front flip and separated my shoulder. Could not figure out why. While healing up took my suspension apart and I had a blown shock bladder.
Half a front flip never ends good.
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CG118
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11/4/2021 6:46pm
Was this on the table just before the track entry?
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Forty
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11/4/2021 6:51pm
Hope for 100% recovery. It happens many times like that. One second you’re all braaap and then BAM, wondering wtf.
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mx617
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11/4/2021 6:55pm
I'd think about the skipping out of gear option again. Had a similar scenario on my yz. May have felt like it was in gear since the tire would have stayed spinning and the wide open throttle could be misleading.
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bh
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11/4/2021 7:31pm
CG118 wrote:
Was this on the table just before the track entry?
Third after you get on. Right after a 180 left and befor a 90 right.
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bh
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11/4/2021 7:32pm
mx617 wrote:
I'd think about the skipping out of gear option again. Had a similar scenario on my yz. May have felt like it was in gear since...
I'd think about the skipping out of gear option again. Had a similar scenario on my yz. May have felt like it was in gear since the tire would have stayed spinning and the wide open throttle could be misleading.
It’s definitely possible, bike has 45 hours on it. I would hope that 3rd hasn’t started to go out already.
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Falcon
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11/4/2021 8:21pm
garagedog wrote:
seat bounce physics?
No. Noooooooo. Grinning
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Moto520
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11/4/2021 8:55pm
Did the motor cut out or anything like that?
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Langhammx
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11/4/2021 9:08pm
Zycki11 wrote:
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can...
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
What he said.
Yup
Seen this one before…
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sandman768
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11/5/2021 5:02am
Sorry about your injury BH, It’s torture when you play over and over in your head what happened in the crash. I have done this when I crashed & injured myself, I think it’s part of a denial stage that we go through when we first get injured. Things happen fast on these bikes, faster than we think sometimes. Even the best riders in the world make mistakes and crash.
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Zycki11
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11/5/2021 2:33pm
Zycki11 wrote:
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can...
No way to be 100% sure, just taking a stab here. If you are a larger person and riding a woods setup on MX it can be pretty tough. Personal guess is that the shock bottomed out on the face at the base/cup and as soon as you hit the kicker it was already rebounding which resulted in a quick endo. Nature vs nurture lodge, nature always wins.
Jbulz wrote:
Almost. Rebound won't endo you, but if you hit a kicker while bottomed the chassis has to absorb it. Front wheel already off the ground so...
Almost. Rebound won't endo you, but if you hit a kicker while bottomed the chassis has to absorb it. Front wheel already off the ground so the bike rotates about it's center of mass.

The shock bottomed on the face before the kicker. Since there was no suspension travel left to absorb the kicker it hammered the back of the bike up and caused you to endo.
Your missing it. The rebound itself is the catalyst, you can endo either way from zero travel left or from the interim of the shock rebounding at the wrong time on the face.
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