Additional $1225 in fees over MSRP for new bikes? Really?

5/27/2021 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 2:16pm
JBecker 72 wrote:
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.” Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had...
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.”

Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had to jump through to get to that viewpoint.
lostboy819 wrote:
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in...
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in for taxes? are you using a credit card to pay or partial payment, those are just a few things that will affect the price. Its not as cut and dried as you may think. And to let you in on a little secret, there is no guaranteed OTD price on a phone call.
JBecker 72 wrote:
So how does asking a few follow up questions on what the exact situation is matter? This really shouldn’t be hard, and yet it is most...
So how does asking a few follow up questions on what the exact situation is matter? This really shouldn’t be hard, and yet it is most places.

When I called the dealer I bought my YZ at in March, he gave me a price in 30 seconds. Then I gave him my credit card number over the phone to put a deposit down and hold it. When it came in I picked it up and was out the door in under a half hour.
You are the kind of customer dealers want. Most wont put down a deposit. Every situation is different and so is every dealer but all salespeople will try to evaluate and size up a customers ability to buy. Believe me you are not the normal phone call customer. Also the buyers for race bikes the age has gone up a bit and older people in general have more money. Its not a perfect system and never will be and every sales person has lost a sale at one point over the phone.

Dealers are adapting now also with internet sales people just like car dealers had to do and the internet is the best thing that ever happened because it made car dealers have to change the way they did business and really clean up their act. But for the most part if your motorcycle dealer has ten sales people and 20 customers in the dealership looking to buy then any phone call customers are pushed aside, they may call you back they may not and if they don't then its their tough luck.

Also with the pandemic the way everyone has to change to sell makes it a learning process, but no one figured the pandemic would put motorsports sales through the roof or car sales or anything sales.
1
sandhills
Posts
320
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Scotts Valley, CA, USA
5/27/2021 2:19pm
Preston412 wrote:
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide...
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide what OTD works for them and not be so concerned with how the dealer got to that price. The bottom line is the bottom line that you are willing to pay and the starting price can be raised or lowered to get to your OTD when adding in the fees.

Your best deals are not generally made on the phone but sitting at the desk with the cash or credit app sitting in front of you.

Phone calls are either a potential customer getting information (don't usually ask for the OTD because they have a price in mind already-the informed/knowledgeable buyer and ready to give a deposit for the right price) or some one shopping around for the OTD to shop dealers against each other(the B.S. buyer).

Cash in not king. Dealers make money from the banks with approved buyers BUT there is a certain number of payments that must be made before the bank hands over the money. So, if you are able to pay cash and have the good credit to finance, then finance and pay it off on the first invoice and the dealer more than likely will not get their kick back and you got some money off the deal anyways. MFG's financing deals with their approved lender generally don't have dealer kick backs because the interest rate or monthly payment is set based on your credit worthiness. Outside banks use a point system. EX. you qualified for a 4.0% rate but the dealer got you to go with a 5.0% not telling you, you got 4.0%, now the dealer is making 1 point for every .25% rate over the 4.0% which is 4 pts. Now, 4 pts of the amount financed, lets say $10,000 is $400 incentive to the dealer and finance man gets $80 of it.

Bike setup/assembly is paid to the dealer by the MFG when bike is sold, cost varies so I can not tell you what each MFG pays the dealer, set up fee is all profit. Shipping cost is set and can be find on the MFG website, any amount above that is profit. Registration is set by the state, any amount above that is profit. Admin fee is mostly profit, except for the 1 hour that cost them for the office clerk.
Dealers have kick backs and sometimes sales incentives (based on the number of units sold for the month) that they get from MFG. MFG rebates are mostly used to close the deal and generally counted as profit.
Good insight, thank you. That part about giving the buyer a worse interest rate than they qualified for is fucked though, I knew to only take the manufacturer financing deal because the third party or dealer stuff is sketchy but that's kind of worse than I even imagined.
1
JBecker 72
Posts
1811
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/27/2021 2:23pm
lostboy819 wrote:
You are the kind of customer dealers want. Most wont put down a deposit. Every situation is different and so is every dealer but all salespeople...
You are the kind of customer dealers want. Most wont put down a deposit. Every situation is different and so is every dealer but all salespeople will try to evaluate and size up a customers ability to buy. Believe me you are not the normal phone call customer. Also the buyers for race bikes the age has gone up a bit and older people in general have more money. Its not a perfect system and never will be and every sales person has lost a sale at one point over the phone.

Dealers are adapting now also with internet sales people just like car dealers had to do and the internet is the best thing that ever happened because it made car dealers have to change the way they did business and really clean up their act. But for the most part if your motorcycle dealer has ten sales people and 20 customers in the dealership looking to buy then any phone call customers are pushed aside, they may call you back they may not and if they don't then its their tough luck.

Also with the pandemic the way everyone has to change to sell makes it a learning process, but no one figured the pandemic would put motorsports sales through the roof or car sales or anything sales.
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now we are just seeing if we are in the ballpark and can go from there. If the deal isn’t what I feel is right, no worries.
3
yak651
Posts
8960
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
5/27/2021 2:31pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in...
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in for taxes? are you using a credit card to pay or partial payment, those are just a few things that will affect the price. Its not as cut and dried as you may think. And to let you in on a little secret, there is no guaranteed OTD price on a phone call.
MXer391 wrote:
Yes there is. All of these things can be answered over the phone. Have you been living under a rock? I can buy a bike from...
Yes there is. All of these things can be answered over the phone. Have you been living under a rock? I can buy a bike from across the country and have it dropped off at my doorstep. The dealer two miles from my house just sold 2 Gas Gas 450s to a guy in Texas. I'm in Pennsylvania. Do you think he drove to PA to get the best deal? Heck no, he picked up the phone and called their sales manager. C'mon dude.
lostboy819 wrote:
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can...
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can call my local shop and not even ask a price, all I need to do is tell him what I want and then go get it.
Wait, you can call your shop and not have to visit in person Woohoo

The Shop

5/27/2021 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 2:43pm
MXer391 wrote:
Yes there is. All of these things can be answered over the phone. Have you been living under a rock? I can buy a bike from...
Yes there is. All of these things can be answered over the phone. Have you been living under a rock? I can buy a bike from across the country and have it dropped off at my doorstep. The dealer two miles from my house just sold 2 Gas Gas 450s to a guy in Texas. I'm in Pennsylvania. Do you think he drove to PA to get the best deal? Heck no, he picked up the phone and called their sales manager. C'mon dude.
lostboy819 wrote:
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can...
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can call my local shop and not even ask a price, all I need to do is tell him what I want and then go get it.
yak651 wrote:
Wait, you can call your shop and not have to visit in person Woohoo
Nope, I was a employee for a good portion of my racing days and at Vickery even after you move on you are still part of the Vickery family. Smile I am so lucky to be involved with them and the only place I will buy from and all the employees ride or are involved with motorsports, its one of the last great family owned dealers and the best place I ever worked and I am still treated like family. I do feel bad for other city's that don't have great dealerships and in Denver their are several so we are lucky because in Colorado we have more than our fair share of GREAT dealerships. Cool Wink I feel bad for the parts of the country where there are no dealers who stock parts and don't have any cool stuff in the showrooms, we have a huge choice on gear and hop up parts hard parts everything.
5
5/27/2021 4:05pm
mark_swart wrote:
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in...
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in shipping, $400 for assembly and $340 for "dock fee" in addition of course to any applicable taxes. Another KTM dealer in GA was right in the same range for additional fees.

It's been a while since I worked in a dealership, but is this legit or price gouging? Who gets this money, the dealer or the manufacturer?
I work at a KTM dealer and see the invoices, the factory legitimately charges the $485 freight and the $400 is something that they charge us but "credit back" the dealership's parts account once a bike is sold. Different states have their caps on what the Documentation fee can be, the state I work in caps it at $85. The dealership I work at also happens to discount from the MSRP to help customers out on the majority of our units (other than bikes with high demand and low quantities like factory editions or special edition bikes) as well to make it easier on the consumer. Believe us when we say, most dealers don't like charging freight and the additional $400, it would be much easier to have it one price without any additional stuff itemized.
2
8tensolutions
Posts
3524
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/27/2021 4:23pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 4:25pm
CKNY wrote:
None of your business what the guy or any other poster here does for a living. You just can’t seem to get it through your head...
None of your business what the guy or any other poster here does for a living.
You just can’t seem to get it through your head the point people are making. We know we have a choice where we buy. Pretty sure most of us are not idiots as you seem to be alluding in some way.
Please stop trying to advise or convince us, we don’t give a shit.
I am not suggesting you are an idiot. If the shoe fits bro.....and if you don't give a shit, why are you posting about it? You...
I am not suggesting you are an idiot. If the shoe fits bro.....and if you don't give a shit, why are you posting about it? You clearly are angry a dealer wants to make a reasonable margin, but yet you still expect a paycheck from your employer....and in order to pay you they have to make a reasonable margin. The concept is a challenge, I understand.
agn5008 wrote:
You can get as upset as you’d like but here are the facts: a lot of people don’t appreciate paying over MSRP. This results in us...
You can get as upset as you’d like but here are the facts: a lot of people don’t appreciate paying over MSRP. This results in us finding better deals and purchasing those units somewhere else.

I really don’t understand why that bothers you so much. Unsure
Nothing is bothering me except a bunch of whiny adults who can choose to buy something or not. My point is really simple.....if a Dealer is ripping you off, you should have no problem finding one that is not. Where will you be next year when the dealer has no allotment, but still has the same expenses? Yep, you will still order your parts etc online and then complain about tracks charging $30 to ride when you offer nothing of value to them all while riding the bike you paid too much for. Good thing you validate yourself through an online forum.
3
6
8tensolutions
Posts
3524
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/27/2021 4:26pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 4:27pm
Preston412 wrote:
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide...
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide what OTD works for them and not be so concerned with how the dealer got to that price. The bottom line is the bottom line that you are willing to pay and the starting price can be raised or lowered to get to your OTD when adding in the fees.

Your best deals are not generally made on the phone but sitting at the desk with the cash or credit app sitting in front of you.

Phone calls are either a potential customer getting information (don't usually ask for the OTD because they have a price in mind already-the informed/knowledgeable buyer and ready to give a deposit for the right price) or some one shopping around for the OTD to shop dealers against each other(the B.S. buyer).

Cash in not king. Dealers make money from the banks with approved buyers BUT there is a certain number of payments that must be made before the bank hands over the money. So, if you are able to pay cash and have the good credit to finance, then finance and pay it off on the first invoice and the dealer more than likely will not get their kick back and you got some money off the deal anyways. MFG's financing deals with their approved lender generally don't have dealer kick backs because the interest rate or monthly payment is set based on your credit worthiness. Outside banks use a point system. EX. you qualified for a 4.0% rate but the dealer got you to go with a 5.0% not telling you, you got 4.0%, now the dealer is making 1 point for every .25% rate over the 4.0% which is 4 pts. Now, 4 pts of the amount financed, lets say $10,000 is $400 incentive to the dealer and finance man gets $80 of it.

Bike setup/assembly is paid to the dealer by the MFG when bike is sold, cost varies so I can not tell you what each MFG pays the dealer, set up fee is all profit. Shipping cost is set and can be find on the MFG website, any amount above that is profit. Registration is set by the state, any amount above that is profit. Admin fee is mostly profit, except for the 1 hour that cost them for the office clerk.
Dealers have kick backs and sometimes sales incentives (based on the number of units sold for the month) that they get from MFG. MFG rebates are mostly used to close the deal and generally counted as profit.
This is all accurate.....Great Post.....and they are allowed to make money along with buyers choosing who they do business with.
2
1
Indy mxer
Posts
1871
Joined
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Location
The Villages, FL, USA
5/27/2021 5:18pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can...
I am sure there was a little more too it than that but again well qualified buyers make it much easier on both ends. I can call my local shop and not even ask a price, all I need to do is tell him what I want and then go get it.
yak651 wrote:
Wait, you can call your shop and not have to visit in person Woohoo
lostboy819 wrote:
Nope, I was a employee for a good portion of my racing days and at Vickery even after you move on you are still part of...
Nope, I was a employee for a good portion of my racing days and at Vickery even after you move on you are still part of the Vickery family. Smile I am so lucky to be involved with them and the only place I will buy from and all the employees ride or are involved with motorsports, its one of the last great family owned dealers and the best place I ever worked and I am still treated like family. I do feel bad for other city's that don't have great dealerships and in Denver their are several so we are lucky because in Colorado we have more than our fair share of GREAT dealerships. Cool Wink I feel bad for the parts of the country where there are no dealers who stock parts and don't have any cool stuff in the showrooms, we have a huge choice on gear and hop up parts hard parts everything.
Well said. Not all dealers ripoff customers with bullshit fees.

My brother owns a Kaw/Polaris/TM dealership here that my dad started in 1974 as a Suzuki dealership. They gave up Suzuki a few years ago since he mainly sells dirt bikes, quads and SxS's, and Suzuki didn't have much to offer anymore. Even though our town is only 6000 people, he's one of the biggest Polaris dealers in the state. And very few dealers have lasted that long.

They're continued success is due to the way they treat people. No bullshit fees and the price they quote is what you pay. It's a true family business. His son is the service mgr and my oldest son works in sales. Both have worked there since high school, as did my brother.
He also carries lots of parts and acc.

My point is, good dealers are still out there if you look hard enough. And if you're complaining about high fees, thats on you.
Reward the good dealers!
5
three9zero
Posts
1454
Joined
9/26/2010
Location
Kamloops B.C, CA
5/27/2021 5:37pm
mark_swart wrote:
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in...
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in shipping, $400 for assembly and $340 for "dock fee" in addition of course to any applicable taxes. Another KTM dealer in GA was right in the same range for additional fees.

It's been a while since I worked in a dealership, but is this legit or price gouging? Who gets this money, the dealer or the manufacturer?
kb228 wrote:
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work. The other...
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work.

The other fees are costs to get it from cali to the dealer and import fees.

Buy a clean used one and let some other idiot pay those charges.
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
6
ktmwoods
Posts
329
Joined
9/10/2008
Location
abilene, TX, USA
5/27/2021 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 5:42pm
sandhills wrote:
Groceries aren't up though.
LungButter wrote:
100% wrong.
Most everything coming out of @Sandhills these days is suspect. Too bad, I really like Scotts Valley people normally.
2
Indy mxer
Posts
1871
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
The Villages, FL, USA
5/27/2021 6:25pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 7:08pm
mark_swart wrote:
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in...
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in shipping, $400 for assembly and $340 for "dock fee" in addition of course to any applicable taxes. Another KTM dealer in GA was right in the same range for additional fees.

It's been a while since I worked in a dealership, but is this legit or price gouging? Who gets this money, the dealer or the manufacturer?
kb228 wrote:
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work. The other...
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work.

The other fees are costs to get it from cali to the dealer and import fees.

Buy a clean used one and let some other idiot pay those charges.
three9zero wrote:
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
Exactly!!
I had some vacation days to burn and my brother needed some bikes set up so I worked for him for a few days. I set up a 21 KX 250 one day. It took me more than 15 minutes just to uncrate it. In total it probably took me a couple hours to completely get it done..

But that said, $400 is way too much for set up.
3
TeamGreen
Posts
37465
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
5/27/2021 6:42pm
sandhills wrote:
The dealer is lying. Check the manufacturer's website, it will list a "freight" or "destination" charge, that is all they're "supposed to" charge: MSRP + Destination...
The dealer is lying.

Check the manufacturer's website, it will list a "freight" or "destination" charge, that is all they're "supposed to" charge: MSRP + Destination + Tax + Reg.

Setup fees - Bullshit, yes it is a labor cost for them but it's already baked into MSRP + Destination

Freight fees other than what's quoted on the manufacturer website - Bullshit, they get charged a flat rate that is covered by the manufacturer set Destination/Freight fee.

Doc fees - More bullshit, they will try to hide it as if it's part of the registration fees, but it's a fee they are charging you for doing the paperwork... as if it's not worth their time.

Dealers can charge more if the product is that in demand, and it is right now, but calling it "fees" instead of straight up markup is just blowing smoke.
Falcon wrote:
This. Also, here in CA, there is a legal limit to the DOC fee. (It was $45 the last time I knew for sure. Probably not...
This.

Also, here in CA, there is a legal limit to the DOC fee. (It was $45 the last time I knew for sure. Probably not much more than that now.) I don't know about NC, but I'd bet they also have a limit.


The truth of the matter is that these businesses are independently owned. They can charge whatever they want and get away with it. At this point in time, they could charge a $2,500 "Fuck you, it's the last one I have" fee and probably get away with it. (They do that on larger streetbikes all the time and call it ADM, or "Additional Dealer Markup.")
TeamGreen wrote:
Damn, This Falcon cat hit that one with an MLB Hickory stick..."And...she's GONE!!! Home Run!" The only way to deal with this issue, from where I'm...
Damn,

This Falcon cat hit that one with an MLB Hickory stick..."And...she's GONE!!! Home Run!"

The only way to deal with this issue, from where I'm standing, is to go find a sensible & seemingly "fair" dealer. There's actually no reason to go thru the "Ride Now Bullshit" that many dealers pull on people. I recently helped a kid out at Pala (He's learning to ride) & he/his dad had laid down $11K for a YZ250F during COVID...and I've heard stories of people paying even more.

Another guy had $8K in a 2021 KX85...that included "insurance" he bought from the dealer...WhateverTF that is?!

I know people that liad down A LOT of extra dollars for the new CR450, too. "Supply and Demand" is a real & true issue; so, you're gonna pay for things that are hard ot get and that's all there is to that.

Moto-Karma: I do whatever I can ot help people locate bikes at fair prices. I get bikes for people out here in Cali/SoCal that come from as far away as Florida, Missouri and "Waaaaaaaaay up north in Redding". It's good for our sport to get people into good bikes and gear and I love helping them do it.

For those of us that want a 2022? I'd line it up NOW.

Today, I stopped in at Fator's and put a deposit down on a 2022 GasGas MC450...well...a "Special 450"...I'm thinking they just might be making a BamBam Edition; but, I could be wrong...?

That's Fator's KTM/Husqvarna/GasGas/Suzuki in Redding, CA. They're a real Mom-n-Pop shop. I love doing business with Moto-Families. I really do.
3
yz133rider
Posts
5027
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
5/27/2021 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2021 8:29pm
lostboy819 wrote:
When a person walks into a dealership that is money walking into a dealership and it always trumps a guy on the phone. Now if you...
When a person walks into a dealership that is money walking into a dealership and it always trumps a guy on the phone. Now if you got nothing going on then some quotes that are not set in stone can we given over the phone. Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price. Now if you walk into a dealer with cash then you can deal for a good price as its a sin to let a customer with cash leave , but they aint gonna give it away either especially now when they have more buyers than they have bikes, if they let you and your cash walk then you you were not willing to pay a price that reflects the current market and they will sell it to the next guy. Cool
JBecker 72 wrote:
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.” Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had...
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.”

Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had to jump through to get to that viewpoint.
lostboy819 wrote:
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in...
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in for taxes? are you using a credit card to pay or partial payment, those are just a few things that will affect the price. Its not as cut and dried as you may think. And to let you in on a little secret, there is no guaranteed OTD price on a phone call.
In every email I say, I’m paying cash I’m a pa resident what is the out the door price.... it is pretty cut and dry....
1
TeamGreen
Posts
37465
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
5/27/2021 8:35pm
JBecker 72 wrote:
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.” Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had...
“Way too many variables to give a guaranteed OTD price.”

Please explain this. Because I’m trying to figure out what kind of mental gymnastics you had to jump through to get to that viewpoint.
lostboy819 wrote:
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in...
Will you pay cash or finance? what is credit score ? are you trading anything in ? what city and or county do you live in for taxes? are you using a credit card to pay or partial payment, those are just a few things that will affect the price. Its not as cut and dried as you may think. And to let you in on a little secret, there is no guaranteed OTD price on a phone call.
yz133rider wrote:
In every email I say, I’m paying cash I’m a pa resident what is the out the door price.... it is pretty cut and dry....
I buy with an MSO and register it on The Reservation...in SD.

Murica
mxtech1
Posts
1968
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
5/27/2021 9:17pm
mark_swart wrote:
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in...
Okay, so I'm a bottom feeder and haven't bought a new bike in a long time. A Husky dealer in NC says they charge $485 in shipping, $400 for assembly and $340 for "dock fee" in addition of course to any applicable taxes. Another KTM dealer in GA was right in the same range for additional fees.

It's been a while since I worked in a dealership, but is this legit or price gouging? Who gets this money, the dealer or the manufacturer?
kb228 wrote:
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work. The other...
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work.

The other fees are costs to get it from cali to the dealer and import fees.

Buy a clean used one and let some other idiot pay those charges.
three9zero wrote:
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
It usually took longer than 15 minutes to get the fork truck out, find the correct crate in the container/shop lot, dig it out and bring it in to the shop.

It takes 10-15 minutes just to break the crate down and get all the parts removed from the crate.

5 minutes to throw out all the dunnage.

5-10 minutes to get back on the fork truck to haul the skid away.

So close to 45 minutes in labor before you even start working on the bike.

Then you have to put on the front wheel, mount handlebars, adjust levers and cables, add oil, oil the oil filter, add gas, adjust tire pressure, add coolant, check for loose hardware, test start, fill out the PDI paperwork.

We were always happy if we could do the whole process in 2 hours or less. I would argue if it’s being done faster than that, the tech is probably cutting corners and not being as diligent as they should be.

The shop I worked at, we would never PDI a bike just to have it sit on the showroom floor. We had one new floor model that would stay on the floor the entire model year. When the customer bought a bike, it would always be straight from the crate. I always had the suspicion that the owner did this so that the customer could never argue that the PDI fee added to the sale price wasnt for THEIR bike rather than one that had already been built prior to the sale.

But still, 2 hours labor for PDI should be added to the sale price according to the service department hourly rate. So if they typically charge $80 per hour for service work, a 2 hour PDI should only be $160 in fees on the sale price not a flat $300-400. I think that is what a lot of people are upset about.
4
Preston412
Posts
987
Joined
10/5/2012
Location
Saint Augustine, FL, USA
Fantasy
5/28/2021 7:18am
Preston412 wrote:
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide...
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide what OTD works for them and not be so concerned with how the dealer got to that price. The bottom line is the bottom line that you are willing to pay and the starting price can be raised or lowered to get to your OTD when adding in the fees.

Your best deals are not generally made on the phone but sitting at the desk with the cash or credit app sitting in front of you.

Phone calls are either a potential customer getting information (don't usually ask for the OTD because they have a price in mind already-the informed/knowledgeable buyer and ready to give a deposit for the right price) or some one shopping around for the OTD to shop dealers against each other(the B.S. buyer).

Cash in not king. Dealers make money from the banks with approved buyers BUT there is a certain number of payments that must be made before the bank hands over the money. So, if you are able to pay cash and have the good credit to finance, then finance and pay it off on the first invoice and the dealer more than likely will not get their kick back and you got some money off the deal anyways. MFG's financing deals with their approved lender generally don't have dealer kick backs because the interest rate or monthly payment is set based on your credit worthiness. Outside banks use a point system. EX. you qualified for a 4.0% rate but the dealer got you to go with a 5.0% not telling you, you got 4.0%, now the dealer is making 1 point for every .25% rate over the 4.0% which is 4 pts. Now, 4 pts of the amount financed, lets say $10,000 is $400 incentive to the dealer and finance man gets $80 of it.

Bike setup/assembly is paid to the dealer by the MFG when bike is sold, cost varies so I can not tell you what each MFG pays the dealer, set up fee is all profit. Shipping cost is set and can be find on the MFG website, any amount above that is profit. Registration is set by the state, any amount above that is profit. Admin fee is mostly profit, except for the 1 hour that cost them for the office clerk.
Dealers have kick backs and sometimes sales incentives (based on the number of units sold for the month) that they get from MFG. MFG rebates are mostly used to close the deal and generally counted as profit.
JBecker 72 wrote:
Imagine the arrogance to say someone calling and asking the price of a big ticket item is a B.S buyer.
Did I offend you? I was in sales for over 6 years and I was very good at phone sales. If you don't want to be the B.S buyer when calling for a OTD price, then offer a commitment to buy for the right price, it is easy as that.

NO MATTER WHAT THE DEALER TELLS YOU, THEY CAN NOT KEEP YOUR DEPOSIT. That does not mean they won't be asses about returning it. So, don't be afraid to give a deposit if you are shopping around.

You do not legally own the bike until you cross their property line, so if you have buyer's remorse or got that last minute phone call from another dealer with a better price, return your paperwork to the finance person and get a voided sales copy. In Florida, if the bike was delivered to you, you have a 3 day grace period to return the bike as long as you did not use it.

TeamGreen
Posts
37465
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
5/28/2021 7:28am
kb228 wrote:
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work. The other...
I dont agree with the $400 assembly fee. They open the crate and put wheels and handlebars on. Thats literally 15 mins of work.

The other fees are costs to get it from cali to the dealer and import fees.

Buy a clean used one and let some other idiot pay those charges.
three9zero wrote:
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
Please go by a shop and prove you can set up a crated bike ready to ride in 15min ? Post the video on here please.
mxtech1 wrote:
It usually took longer than 15 minutes to get the fork truck out, find the correct crate in the container/shop lot, dig it out and bring...
It usually took longer than 15 minutes to get the fork truck out, find the correct crate in the container/shop lot, dig it out and bring it in to the shop.

It takes 10-15 minutes just to break the crate down and get all the parts removed from the crate.

5 minutes to throw out all the dunnage.

5-10 minutes to get back on the fork truck to haul the skid away.

So close to 45 minutes in labor before you even start working on the bike.

Then you have to put on the front wheel, mount handlebars, adjust levers and cables, add oil, oil the oil filter, add gas, adjust tire pressure, add coolant, check for loose hardware, test start, fill out the PDI paperwork.

We were always happy if we could do the whole process in 2 hours or less. I would argue if it’s being done faster than that, the tech is probably cutting corners and not being as diligent as they should be.

The shop I worked at, we would never PDI a bike just to have it sit on the showroom floor. We had one new floor model that would stay on the floor the entire model year. When the customer bought a bike, it would always be straight from the crate. I always had the suspicion that the owner did this so that the customer could never argue that the PDI fee added to the sale price wasnt for THEIR bike rather than one that had already been built prior to the sale.

But still, 2 hours labor for PDI should be added to the sale price according to the service department hourly rate. So if they typically charge $80 per hour for service work, a 2 hour PDI should only be $160 in fees on the sale price not a flat $300-400. I think that is what a lot of people are upset about.
Donnell's Honda/Suzuki/Husqvarna/Beta in Independence, Missouri disassembled the bike, re-crated it & shipped (in a proper Honda crate) my Honda CRF to me at no add'l charge(I paid the ship fees thru my broker). Also, they sold the bike to me just last December, during the Zombie Apocolypse, for an amazingly good price...I even asked if the price was correct...
Grinning
Another great deal during the "Bikes can't be found for a decent price" era...
Fator's sold me an awesome little RM125 for an epic price...around th same time as my CRF from Donnell's. Fator's also sold me a Stacyc JA21 bike for my nephew...for Christmas...for an extremely good price while other folks I know in were paying "mark up".

There are some really great dealers that take care of their customers.
1
Preston412
Posts
987
Joined
10/5/2012
Location
Saint Augustine, FL, USA
Fantasy
5/28/2021 7:45am
JBecker 72 wrote:
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now...
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now we are just seeing if we are in the ballpark and can go from there. If the deal isn’t what I feel is right, no worries.
Then why not call and give them your price? Are you concerned that they may have quoted you something less, highly unlikely. If your offer is not within a price parameter, then I will ask you the question "How did you come up with that price?" and if you can give a legitimate answer, great I will go to bat for you. if, it is a reasonable offer, then I will ask for a deposit (give a BS credit card number) before going to the sales manager. If, your offer is taken then give a actual deposit and ask for a emailed copy of the sales order.

Most dealers know their main rivals and what ball park they need to be in against them. Dealers pay the same for bikes unless there is promotion by the MFG to move the remaining bikes out of the warehouse.

2
JBecker 72
Posts
1811
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/28/2021 8:48am
Preston412 wrote:
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide...
Fees suck and they will never go away. some small some large, some are ok and some aren't ok with us. Regardless, buyers need to decide what OTD works for them and not be so concerned with how the dealer got to that price. The bottom line is the bottom line that you are willing to pay and the starting price can be raised or lowered to get to your OTD when adding in the fees.

Your best deals are not generally made on the phone but sitting at the desk with the cash or credit app sitting in front of you.

Phone calls are either a potential customer getting information (don't usually ask for the OTD because they have a price in mind already-the informed/knowledgeable buyer and ready to give a deposit for the right price) or some one shopping around for the OTD to shop dealers against each other(the B.S. buyer).

Cash in not king. Dealers make money from the banks with approved buyers BUT there is a certain number of payments that must be made before the bank hands over the money. So, if you are able to pay cash and have the good credit to finance, then finance and pay it off on the first invoice and the dealer more than likely will not get their kick back and you got some money off the deal anyways. MFG's financing deals with their approved lender generally don't have dealer kick backs because the interest rate or monthly payment is set based on your credit worthiness. Outside banks use a point system. EX. you qualified for a 4.0% rate but the dealer got you to go with a 5.0% not telling you, you got 4.0%, now the dealer is making 1 point for every .25% rate over the 4.0% which is 4 pts. Now, 4 pts of the amount financed, lets say $10,000 is $400 incentive to the dealer and finance man gets $80 of it.

Bike setup/assembly is paid to the dealer by the MFG when bike is sold, cost varies so I can not tell you what each MFG pays the dealer, set up fee is all profit. Shipping cost is set and can be find on the MFG website, any amount above that is profit. Registration is set by the state, any amount above that is profit. Admin fee is mostly profit, except for the 1 hour that cost them for the office clerk.
Dealers have kick backs and sometimes sales incentives (based on the number of units sold for the month) that they get from MFG. MFG rebates are mostly used to close the deal and generally counted as profit.
JBecker 72 wrote:
Imagine the arrogance to say someone calling and asking the price of a big ticket item is a B.S buyer.
Preston412 wrote:
Did I offend you? I was in sales for over 6 years and I was very good at phone sales. If you don't want to be...
Did I offend you? I was in sales for over 6 years and I was very good at phone sales. If you don't want to be the B.S buyer when calling for a OTD price, then offer a commitment to buy for the right price, it is easy as that.

NO MATTER WHAT THE DEALER TELLS YOU, THEY CAN NOT KEEP YOUR DEPOSIT. That does not mean they won't be asses about returning it. So, don't be afraid to give a deposit if you are shopping around.

You do not legally own the bike until you cross their property line, so if you have buyer's remorse or got that last minute phone call from another dealer with a better price, return your paperwork to the finance person and get a voided sales copy. In Florida, if the bike was delivered to you, you have a 3 day grace period to return the bike as long as you did not use it.

Offend? No. But you shouldn’t be surprised when you lose sales with a condescending attitude toward potential customers.

I wouldn’t have to call multiple dealers and ask how much something costs if they were upfront on pricing. You go on the dealer website, check inventory, and the site says call or email for a quote. Well, what do you think I’m doing?

So I call, ask the price, some are more than willing to give you a number. Others play games, tell you to come down and talk to the sales manager. Uh, I’m 100 miles away, I’m not driving 3.5 hours round trip for you to waste both of our time. Some are selling the bike with no fees, some are throwing everything they can that will stick including additional dealer markup. There is no continuity from dealer to dealer.
3
JBecker 72
Posts
1811
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/28/2021 8:52am
JBecker 72 wrote:
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now...
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now we are just seeing if we are in the ballpark and can go from there. If the deal isn’t what I feel is right, no worries.
Preston412 wrote:
Then why not call and give them your price? Are you concerned that they may have quoted you something less, highly unlikely. If your offer is...
Then why not call and give them your price? Are you concerned that they may have quoted you something less, highly unlikely. If your offer is not within a price parameter, then I will ask you the question "How did you come up with that price?" and if you can give a legitimate answer, great I will go to bat for you. if, it is a reasonable offer, then I will ask for a deposit (give a BS credit card number) before going to the sales manager. If, your offer is taken then give a actual deposit and ask for a emailed copy of the sales order.

Most dealers know their main rivals and what ball park they need to be in against them. Dealers pay the same for bikes unless there is promotion by the MFG to move the remaining bikes out of the warehouse.

That’s not how this works. Why would I call a business who I am trying to give them money and tell them my price. This isn’t an auction, you are a retailer selling a product. What if their price was lower than what I had in mind. Then I just raised my own price potentially.

This shouldn’t be a hard concept. Item “X” is for sale. What is it’s price?
1
1
yz133rider
Posts
5027
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
5/28/2021 8:54am
PLENTY of dealers don’t play these games. Give them your business. Avoid the jerkoff dealers.
5
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
5/28/2021 9:08am
If I'm a Sales Guy at a dealership my willingness to deal with someone on the phone is going to depend on the market, right now anything that hits the floor is selling at top dollar....why should I deal with a bunch of strokers on the phone when someone is bound to walk through the door ready to buy?

If you wanna call around and jerk off the sales guys at 10+ dealers to get the best deal possible you might wanna wait until it's a buyers market....

OR, here's an idea...find a good dealer and stick with them instead of dealer hopping on every bike purchase just to save $100.....some of ya'll claim to have "been around forever" and don't have a good dealer or 2 to deal with? How? No loyalty and just always looking for the lowest price?
5
3
JBecker 72
Posts
1811
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/28/2021 9:21am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2021 9:31am
LungButter wrote:
If I'm a Sales Guy at a dealership my willingness to deal with someone on the phone is going to depend on the market, right now...
If I'm a Sales Guy at a dealership my willingness to deal with someone on the phone is going to depend on the market, right now anything that hits the floor is selling at top dollar....why should I deal with a bunch of strokers on the phone when someone is bound to walk through the door ready to buy?

If you wanna call around and jerk off the sales guys at 10+ dealers to get the best deal possible you might wanna wait until it's a buyers market....

OR, here's an idea...find a good dealer and stick with them instead of dealer hopping on every bike purchase just to save $100.....some of ya'll claim to have "been around forever" and don't have a good dealer or 2 to deal with? How? No loyalty and just always looking for the lowest price?
$100 savings? Laughing There was a $2300 swing in price between dealers two months ago when I bought my Yamaha.

Show of hands, who would be happy to pay a 25% premium over MSRP on a 250F when they didn’t have to?

Edit: and the local dealers who I went to first were the ones who refused to budge off their full retail bikes with additional markup on top of that.
2
1
sandhills
Posts
320
Joined
5/4/2021
Location
Scotts Valley, CA, USA
5/28/2021 9:30am
sandhills wrote:
Groceries aren't up though.
LungButter wrote:
100% wrong.
ktmwoods wrote:
Most everything coming out of @Sandhills these days is suspect. Too bad, I really like Scotts Valley people normally.
Grocery CPI is at 1.2%. Sure, that is technically a positive number but not a significant one. If you're trying to point to inflation you'd be better of pointing at literally anything else.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
5/28/2021 9:31am
JBecker 72 wrote:
$100 savings? :laugh: There was a $2300 swing in price between dealers two months ago when I bought my Yamaha. Show of hands, who would be...
$100 savings? Laughing There was a $2300 swing in price between dealers two months ago when I bought my Yamaha.

Show of hands, who would be happy to pay a 25% premium over MSRP on a 250F when they didn’t have to?

Edit: and the local dealers who I went to first were the ones who refused to budge off their full retail bikes with additional markup on top of that.
I've been around long enough and been loyal enough that I can tell you right now what dealer I'd call to get the best price on basically any color bike I would want.

Loyalty has earned me the privilege of not having to spend 3 days on the phone to find the best price like some of ya'll who are always chasing a deal Tongue
2
3
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
5/28/2021 9:33am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2021 9:34am
LungButter wrote:
100% wrong.
ktmwoods wrote:
Most everything coming out of @Sandhills these days is suspect. Too bad, I really like Scotts Valley people normally.
sandhills wrote:
Grocery CPI is at 1.2%. Sure, that is technically a positive number but not a significant one. If you're trying to point to inflation you'd be...
Grocery CPI is at 1.2%. Sure, that is technically a positive number but not a significant one. If you're trying to point to inflation you'd be better of pointing at literally anything else.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
I'm gonna go off of what I see out here in the real world.

Pack of Tuna used to cost $.99 6 months ago....$1.24 yesterday.

My kids eat Apple Sauce by the gallon, it's went up $1+ per jar over the last year.

Bacon....that shit has almost doubled the last 12-18 months.

If you don't think the cost of groceries is going up I'm not sure we can have an intelligent conversation about anything because you clearly aren't living in reality.
1
JBecker 72
Posts
1811
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/28/2021 9:51am
JBecker 72 wrote:
$100 savings? :laugh: There was a $2300 swing in price between dealers two months ago when I bought my Yamaha. Show of hands, who would be...
$100 savings? Laughing There was a $2300 swing in price between dealers two months ago when I bought my Yamaha.

Show of hands, who would be happy to pay a 25% premium over MSRP on a 250F when they didn’t have to?

Edit: and the local dealers who I went to first were the ones who refused to budge off their full retail bikes with additional markup on top of that.
LungButter wrote:
I've been around long enough and been loyal enough that I can tell you right now what dealer I'd call to get the best price on...
I've been around long enough and been loyal enough that I can tell you right now what dealer I'd call to get the best price on basically any color bike I would want.

Loyalty has earned me the privilege of not having to spend 3 days on the phone to find the best price like some of ya'll who are always chasing a deal Tongue
The small dealer I used to buy my last bike and numerous before that got gobbled up by a mega dealer just before COVID.
1
2
Preston412
Posts
987
Joined
10/5/2012
Location
Saint Augustine, FL, USA
Fantasy
5/28/2021 10:43am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2021 10:46am
JBecker 72 wrote:
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now...
That’s why it’s frustrating when a sales guy won’t just give you the info. I’ve already established what I’m willing to spend on a bike. Now we are just seeing if we are in the ballpark and can go from there. If the deal isn’t what I feel is right, no worries.
Preston412 wrote:
Then why not call and give them your price? Are you concerned that they may have quoted you something less, highly unlikely. If your offer is...
Then why not call and give them your price? Are you concerned that they may have quoted you something less, highly unlikely. If your offer is not within a price parameter, then I will ask you the question "How did you come up with that price?" and if you can give a legitimate answer, great I will go to bat for you. if, it is a reasonable offer, then I will ask for a deposit (give a BS credit card number) before going to the sales manager. If, your offer is taken then give a actual deposit and ask for a emailed copy of the sales order.

Most dealers know their main rivals and what ball park they need to be in against them. Dealers pay the same for bikes unless there is promotion by the MFG to move the remaining bikes out of the warehouse.

JBecker 72 wrote:
That’s not how this works. Why would I call a business who I am trying to give them money and tell them my price. This isn’t...
That’s not how this works. Why would I call a business who I am trying to give them money and tell them my price. This isn’t an auction, you are a retailer selling a product. What if their price was lower than what I had in mind. Then I just raised my own price potentially.

This shouldn’t be a hard concept. Item “X” is for sale. What is it’s price?
Thanks for calling Mr. Becker, to make sure I am quoting you a price for the right bike, you are interested in the 2021 YZ250F? Yes. Great, we are selling that for $8299 plus frgt, prep and registration, what is your sales tax? 6.5% Ok, that will be $10,276.19 OTD.

What is your answer to that? More than likely, is that the best you can do? Me..Come to the store and we will make sure you leave with a bike. You. I live 3 hours away. Me..(in my head) great you will pass 6 other dealers before getting to me, enjoy your shopping trip.
Now, I will handle it professionally for you. Me...I will earn your business Mr. Becker, there is a $700 rebate on this bike that we will apply to it and if I can get another couple hundred dollars off for you, will you give me a deposit to hold this bike until you get here? Also, if you are wanting to pay cash, there is some MFG financing incentives that can let you keep your money in the bank for awhile, no prepayment penalties so you can make extra payments as you please. So, think about that on your way here. Let me put you on hold and I will be right back with our best deal.

Now, the sales manager is either going to tell you that the rebate is the only incentive or here is my best deal, now go close it and get the deposit.

Sales people either can handle phone sales properly or just can't handle objections properly without you being in front of them.
1
1
Dimblewambie
Posts
1528
Joined
1/28/2017
Location
Murrieta, CA, USA
5/28/2021 11:12am
Preston412 wrote:
Thanks for calling Mr. Becker, to make sure I am quoting you a price for the right bike, you are interested in the 2021 YZ250F? Yes...
Thanks for calling Mr. Becker, to make sure I am quoting you a price for the right bike, you are interested in the 2021 YZ250F? Yes. Great, we are selling that for $8299 plus frgt, prep and registration, what is your sales tax? 6.5% Ok, that will be $10,276.19 OTD.

What is your answer to that? More than likely, is that the best you can do? Me..Come to the store and we will make sure you leave with a bike. You. I live 3 hours away. Me..(in my head) great you will pass 6 other dealers before getting to me, enjoy your shopping trip.
Now, I will handle it professionally for you. Me...I will earn your business Mr. Becker, there is a $700 rebate on this bike that we will apply to it and if I can get another couple hundred dollars off for you, will you give me a deposit to hold this bike until you get here? Also, if you are wanting to pay cash, there is some MFG financing incentives that can let you keep your money in the bank for awhile, no prepayment penalties so you can make extra payments as you please. So, think about that on your way here. Let me put you on hold and I will be right back with our best deal.

Now, the sales manager is either going to tell you that the rebate is the only incentive or here is my best deal, now go close it and get the deposit.

Sales people either can handle phone sales properly or just can't handle objections properly without you being in front of them.
I’m on the edge of my seat.. did Mr Becker join BluCru?
3

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