Additional $1225 in fees over MSRP for new bikes? Really?

CKNY
Posts
406
Joined
2/14/2021
Location
CA
5/25/2021 6:02pm
Went to my local Husky/Beta dealer today. Only one bike on the floor which was the sales managers Beta 125 RE Demo. He told me he is getting aprox. 30 Husky units, less than half of what he ordered. Every bike is pre sold. Said he would not have any floor units till November. Glad I got my 21 back in September. All the other KTM/Husky dealers I know saying the same. Less than half what they ordered and all bikes pre sold.
5/25/2021 6:30pm
Good thing you aren't trying to buy a house, people are bidding 50k over asking price and still get outbid. Dealers are getting while the getting is good, if you want a deal then you need to wait a couple years, right now its a sellers market in most everything. Cool
5/25/2021 6:50pm
Spooner wrote:
How is it 'taking advantage' when the dealers are getting way less units than normal and demand is super high? Hard to keep the lights on...
How is it 'taking advantage' when the dealers are getting way less units than normal and demand is super high? Hard to keep the lights on with half the sales as usual if you don't bump up pricing. What would you guys do if you were a dealer? I've been in several large dealers recently with less than 5 new units on the floor, doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that it's hard to pay the bills when you have nothing left to sell.
Do dealers have a history of keeping the lights on via new unit sales, or parts and service?
Spooner wrote:
All of it. Parts aren't exactly easy to come by right now either which also impacts service.
I got lucky today, ordered 800 in parts from service Honda, 30 % off. For a 04 cr125, some parts where 07 125 for a 04. The carb slide was a yz part. Everything was in stock. There’s a few 04 cr125 parts not made anymore tho.
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5/25/2021 7:04pm
I was at my local dealer and they had on a 4 seater side by side, freight $450 and set-up $550. As I was walking around I checked on a price of a PW 50, freight $450 and set-up $550.
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The Shop

5/25/2021 7:17pm
And the dealers wonder why we buy our shit online now. You stiff us, we buy elsewhere.
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Leeham
Posts
1159
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
Rochester, WA, USA
5/25/2021 7:45pm
Just pay the new bike ransom and have fun lol paid over 10K for my 21 YZ250F. And you know what? Its freaking awesome either way
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ACBraap
Posts
1169
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA, USA
Fantasy
5/25/2021 7:58pm
skeef wrote:
Why is this a conversation again? This has been the way of the Industry for the last 15 years. Don't buy a new bike then. You...
Why is this a conversation again? This has been the way of the Industry for the last 15 years. Don't buy a new bike then. You guys are are bickering over a dealer keeping food on peoples plate. Most of you don't know what you are are talking about. We pay tens of thousands of dollars training our techs on the latest model year of bikes from each manufacture. That the OEM requries. We get charged freight all day long. They charge us to get shipped on an 18 wheeler. You then get charged, it's your bike. You guys are so shit for the industry. Sack up and pay the fees, Or get the best OTD and take it to the nearest deals, someone will beat it and make you a deal.
It's about honesty in pricing. The price should be the price, not the price plus the list of extra fees is the price. Airline business practices should not become the norm.
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8tensolutions
Posts
3488
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
5/25/2021 8:19pm
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins on new bikes are garbage to start with, the manufacturer charges the freight (not the dealer), a doc fee pays the office staff to handle the title app/financing/mso etc, and the assembly pays for just that. How is any of that unfair? If it is so bad, then other dealers likely aren't charging it ,so go see them or buy a used bike.

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BeachMX
Posts
163
Joined
4/19/2020
Location
Anza, CA, USA
5/25/2021 8:26pm
Saw a 2021 YZ250f today at my local dealer.. $10,800... includes a $1500 fee.
JBecker 72
Posts
1810
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/26/2021 2:35am
BeachMX wrote:
Saw a 2021 YZ250f today at my local dealer.. $10,800... includes a $1500 fee.
Damn, that’s what a CRF450RWE went for before all this and I thought that was crazy.
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CKNY
Posts
406
Joined
2/14/2021
Location
CA
5/26/2021 4:47am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2021 4:50am
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins...
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins on new bikes are garbage to start with, the manufacturer charges the freight (not the dealer), a doc fee pays the office staff to handle the title app/financing/mso etc, and the assembly pays for just that. How is any of that unfair? If it is so bad, then other dealers likely aren't charging it ,so go see them or buy a used bike.

It’s unfair if they charge a $300 admin fee to title my bike because I’m pretty sure they are not paying their admin person $600 an hour. I shouldn’t have to pay for someone to do paperwork on a finance deal either when they are making $500 off of it. Also shouldn’t have to pay the shop jockey $600 an hour to uncrate the bike and assemble. Luckily my dealer has some class and doesn’t try to rape their customers. They are also fortunate enough to have a successful equipment company to begin with, the bikes are an add on biz. I’ve sent over a half dozen guys there this season for new bikes and will send more.
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agn5008
Posts
2012
Joined
3/8/2021
Location
PA, PA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2021 5:06am
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins...
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins on new bikes are garbage to start with, the manufacturer charges the freight (not the dealer), a doc fee pays the office staff to handle the title app/financing/mso etc, and the assembly pays for just that. How is any of that unfair? If it is so bad, then other dealers likely aren't charging it ,so go see them or buy a used bike.

CKNY wrote:
It’s unfair if they charge a $300 admin fee to title my bike because I’m pretty sure they are not paying their admin person $600 an...
It’s unfair if they charge a $300 admin fee to title my bike because I’m pretty sure they are not paying their admin person $600 an hour. I shouldn’t have to pay for someone to do paperwork on a finance deal either when they are making $500 off of it. Also shouldn’t have to pay the shop jockey $600 an hour to uncrate the bike and assemble. Luckily my dealer has some class and doesn’t try to rape their customers. They are also fortunate enough to have a successful equipment company to begin with, the bikes are an add on biz. I’ve sent over a half dozen guys there this season for new bikes and will send more.
Exactly. I don’t understand how some people here are justifying these ridiculous fees. They act like it’s a privilege for me to purchase a dirt bike with my hard earned money off of a dealer. No, it’s a privilege that I’m spending MY money at your dealership. If you take advantage of me and charge ridiculous prices then I will go somewhere else and quite honestly, I’ll never come back to your dealership. I want dealerships to make money but I also don’t want screwed over. Like I said before, charge me full MSRP during these times. I am totally fine with that since these bikes are selling like hot cakes right now. But if you try to charge me over MSRP I’m gonna go to a more honorable dealer and give them the privilege of taking my money.
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agn5008
Posts
2012
Joined
3/8/2021
Location
PA, PA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2021 5:20am
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins...
I would love to know what some of you jerky's do for a living and what the margin is on the work/product/service you're responsible for. Margins on new bikes are garbage to start with, the manufacturer charges the freight (not the dealer), a doc fee pays the office staff to handle the title app/financing/mso etc, and the assembly pays for just that. How is any of that unfair? If it is so bad, then other dealers likely aren't charging it ,so go see them or buy a used bike.

Some dealers aren’t charging it. And I found a good one who doesn’t. See here’s the thing, I have been spending A LOT of money on this sport for a really long time. And I’m gonna continue to spend a lot of money until I’m gone. I’m a lifer, much like a ton of other people here. We are the ones who will be here til the end. These dealers are taking advantage of the new comers who buy a bike then sell it after they figure out they aren’t that into it. All that’s doing is pissing the “lifers” off. We will remember which dealers tried to bone us when all this passes. My closest Gas Gas dealer tried selling me a 300 for $12,500. I burst out laughing then told him I’ll never spend another penny there. Then found a place to sell me a KTM 300 for $10k OTD. Now put that into perspective once. I got a bike that costs almost $1000 more MSRP for $2500 cheaper. That’s a $3500 swing between the two dealers. Don’t you think that’s a little excessive on a $9600 MSRP item? How much do you expect these guys to make? Like I said, they can take advantage of the newbies who will buy one bike then never buy another again. That’s fine, but us lifers won’t forget it. This is making it very easy to figure out who the honorable dealers are.
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Mcflurry98
Posts
275
Joined
7/30/2020
Location
Canton, GA, USA
5/26/2021 5:34am
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it.

We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base MSRP on the bikes.
We spend hundreds, if not thousands getting our suspension tuned to our liking.
In some cases, we spends thousands more on additional bolt ons for the bikes in order to make them the way we like them.
We spend extra money to run race gas instead of pump gas.
We spend up to $600 on boots, up to $700 on helmets, and hundreds more on additional safety equipment.
We spend tens of thousands on campers, toy haulers, and vehicles to haul these bikes around.
We are willing to take the risk in a sport where a single crash can cost thousands of dollars for a single doctor visit.

If you're knee deep in this sport, then the dealer fees are the last thing you should be concerned with spending money on. If you don't want to pay them, then buy used or find a dealer with better deals. If you don't mind the fees because you prefer a new bike or you are ok with paying them to support your local dealer, then that's cool, too.

Dealers have a business to run. If you don't like how they run it, then don't shop there and find a different one. Poblem solved.
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agn5008
Posts
2012
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PA, PA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2021 6:05am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2021 6:09am
Mcflurry98 wrote:
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it. We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base...
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it.

We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base MSRP on the bikes.
We spend hundreds, if not thousands getting our suspension tuned to our liking.
In some cases, we spends thousands more on additional bolt ons for the bikes in order to make them the way we like them.
We spend extra money to run race gas instead of pump gas.
We spend up to $600 on boots, up to $700 on helmets, and hundreds more on additional safety equipment.
We spend tens of thousands on campers, toy haulers, and vehicles to haul these bikes around.
We are willing to take the risk in a sport where a single crash can cost thousands of dollars for a single doctor visit.

If you're knee deep in this sport, then the dealer fees are the last thing you should be concerned with spending money on. If you don't want to pay them, then buy used or find a dealer with better deals. If you don't mind the fees because you prefer a new bike or you are ok with paying them to support your local dealer, then that's cool, too.

Dealers have a business to run. If you don't like how they run it, then don't shop there and find a different one. Poblem solved.
Exactly. That’s what I did, I found a new dealer because I didn’t like the additional fees. I want to see these dealers succeed, but I’ve talked to quite a few guys who buy new bikes yearly who will not be going to the local dealer anymore over these fees. It’s not even so much about the money. It’s all about running an honorable business. I worry these businesses will lose a lot of their previous customers over these charges. It may not affect the dealer in the short term, but it will affect them in the long run because some really good (and quite honestly wealthy) local buyers will be going elsewhere for their bikes. The fact that this is causing controversy amongst our tiny community should be cause for concern for these dealers who are doing this. Controversy is the last thing any business wants (especially smaller hometown businesses.)

I don’t agree with the rest of your opinion though. Just because I spend a lot of money on something I love it doesn’t mean I should be ok with getting charged more. I love my wife and spend money on her, but if she cheats on me I’d leave her. Same with dirt bike dealer. I love dirt bikes and spend lots of money but if they screw me over I leave 🤷‍♂️
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Jardo
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Location
Visalia, CA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2021 6:14am
Supply and demand.

They give us good prices when supplies are high so why would we expect them to not charge more when supplies are low?
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JBecker 72
Posts
1810
Joined
3/25/2014
Location
Eastern Panhandle, WV, USA
5/26/2021 6:39am
Mcflurry98 wrote:
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it. We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base...
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it.

We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base MSRP on the bikes.
We spend hundreds, if not thousands getting our suspension tuned to our liking.
In some cases, we spends thousands more on additional bolt ons for the bikes in order to make them the way we like them.
We spend extra money to run race gas instead of pump gas.
We spend up to $600 on boots, up to $700 on helmets, and hundreds more on additional safety equipment.
We spend tens of thousands on campers, toy haulers, and vehicles to haul these bikes around.
We are willing to take the risk in a sport where a single crash can cost thousands of dollars for a single doctor visit.

If you're knee deep in this sport, then the dealer fees are the last thing you should be concerned with spending money on. If you don't want to pay them, then buy used or find a dealer with better deals. If you don't mind the fees because you prefer a new bike or you are ok with paying them to support your local dealer, then that's cool, too.

Dealers have a business to run. If you don't like how they run it, then don't shop there and find a different one. Poblem solved.
Damn bro, you boujee. Here I am loading my stock bike into a pickup truck and running it on pump gas like a poor.

BTW, the overwhelming majority of riders I see don’t come anywhere close to the level of money spent you’re talking.
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sandhills
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Location
Scotts Valley, CA, USA
5/26/2021 7:14am
Jardo wrote:
Supply and demand.

They give us good prices when supplies are high so why would we expect them to not charge more when supplies are low?
That's fine with me, just put it in the price then. If I see a dealer publicly pricing a bike $1000 over MSRP right now I think yeah that makes sense. It's when they try to trick you and hide it in a bunch of fees and then whine about how much work it is to set the bike up and do the paperwork. The bike I'm after really is as simple as putting the front wheel on and gas in it, about 3 honest dealers have been completely straight about that while a good half of them are happy to lie right to your face and say comes without the handlebars or swingarm on. Lying is never a good look.
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GD350
Posts
218
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2/23/2021
Location
Plymouth, MO, USA
5/26/2021 7:50am
I bought a 21 350sxf in late November, it was MSRP of 9999 plus 400 freight and 80$ admin. Came to 11700 after tax and title fees. I drove 6 hours 1 way a few states away. Might be better to go somewhere else
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Jardo
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335
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Location
Visalia, CA, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2021 8:20am
Jardo wrote:
Supply and demand.

They give us good prices when supplies are high so why would we expect them to not charge more when supplies are low?
sandhills wrote:
That's fine with me, just put it in the price then. If I see a dealer publicly pricing a bike $1000 over MSRP right now I...
That's fine with me, just put it in the price then. If I see a dealer publicly pricing a bike $1000 over MSRP right now I think yeah that makes sense. It's when they try to trick you and hide it in a bunch of fees and then whine about how much work it is to set the bike up and do the paperwork. The bike I'm after really is as simple as putting the front wheel on and gas in it, about 3 honest dealers have been completely straight about that while a good half of them are happy to lie right to your face and say comes without the handlebars or swingarm on. Lying is never a good look.
Yeah I see your point.

If a dealer is going to raise their prices, just f*ckin say it.
CKNY
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406
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Location
CA
5/26/2021 8:28am
Mcflurry98 wrote:
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it. We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base...
Ok. Lets take the fees out of this for a second and then come back to it.

We are willing to spend 8K-$11K for the base MSRP on the bikes.
We spend hundreds, if not thousands getting our suspension tuned to our liking.
In some cases, we spends thousands more on additional bolt ons for the bikes in order to make them the way we like them.
We spend extra money to run race gas instead of pump gas.
We spend up to $600 on boots, up to $700 on helmets, and hundreds more on additional safety equipment.
We spend tens of thousands on campers, toy haulers, and vehicles to haul these bikes around.
We are willing to take the risk in a sport where a single crash can cost thousands of dollars for a single doctor visit.

If you're knee deep in this sport, then the dealer fees are the last thing you should be concerned with spending money on. If you don't want to pay them, then buy used or find a dealer with better deals. If you don't mind the fees because you prefer a new bike or you are ok with paying them to support your local dealer, then that's cool, too.

Dealers have a business to run. If you don't like how they run it, then don't shop there and find a different one. Poblem solved.
😂😂😂😂 I hope your aren’t in the bike biz.
Do you actually read the shit you type?
So I should just let a dealer fuck me in the ass because I spend cash on other things in life?
If the dealer isn’t a douche he’s gonna possibly get the helmet, boot, gear and parts sale from me too. I’ve got lots of dealer friends, they’ve had good and bad times like everyone else. Right now they are cleaning up and it’s well deserved. No dealer I’m friends with is starving or laying people off.
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Falcon
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Location
Menifee, CA, USA
5/26/2021 8:41am
The problem I have with dealer fees is that they are so dishonest. You are not paying "freight and setup," you are paying "dealer markup."
The dealer gets a check at the end of the year for every unit sold. It is called "holdback," and it is basically a reduction in invoice cost. I don't know exactly what the dollar amount is on an MX machine, but it's a few hundy on each bike. Hmmm, the same few hundy that it costs to ship the machine to the dealer? Maybe....
So there goes the freight, for the most part.

As for "setup," they pay a low-tier mechanic $40 per flagged hour to do that job. The service department "charges" the sales department a half hour or full hour of labor to do the PDI on the unit. That's $20-$40 actual dollars going out to somebody, but $40-$80 dollars charged to the sales department. If they charged me $80 in "setup," I'd understand; they are covering their department's costs. $300/$400/$500 in "setup" is a markup, however.

Let's be honest and call it a markup. That said, every dealer has the right to markup their product how they see fit, just as AGN is free to buy at any another dealer.
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1
5/26/2021 8:51am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2021 8:52am
I tried to buy a Yz250 two stroke from a dealer in San Jose this week, they wanted $12k out the door for a bike that is 7499 MSRP. I was blown away at how much they are marking up.
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StevenMX
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Location
Portland, OR, USA
5/26/2021 9:03am
I tried to buy a Yz250 two stroke from a dealer in San Jose this week, they wanted $12k out the door for a bike that...
I tried to buy a Yz250 two stroke from a dealer in San Jose this week, they wanted $12k out the door for a bike that is 7499 MSRP. I was blown away at how much they are marking up.
Man makes me appreciate where I got my new 2021 KTM 250sx up here in Oregon. I called the dealers around here and asked the OTD price... $8399 with $100 in documentation fees... no setup cost, no delivery fees, etc. Straight forward and no tax Smile . Yamaha dealers up here were listing $7499 on the YZ250 2 stroke with same deal. (I bought my bike end of February this year.
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5/26/2021 9:16am
One thing we haven't mentioned is that we are part of the problem. So many of us want these bikes so bad that we are willing to pay all the markup and stupid fees to have that brand new bike. Look at the guys that have spent $14-$16k for the CRF450RWE and $12-$14k for the CRF450. We are telling these dealers that it doesn't matter how high they go, we will still pay it because we "need" that new bike that bad.
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Brent
Posts
5846
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Location
Temecula, CA, USA
5/26/2021 9:26am
Bret wrote:
I can't weigh in on the cost but the assembly is a little more involved than just installing wheels and handlebars. Uncrating Opening Crate Parts Check...
I can't weigh in on the cost but the assembly is a little more involved than just installing wheels and handlebars.

Uncrating
Opening Crate
Parts Check

ASSEMBLY:
Handlebars
Throttle Grip Assembly
Front Brake Master Cylinder
Starter Button
Clutch Lever Assembly
Launch Control Mode Button
Engine Stop Switch
Cables and Wiring Routing
Front Fender
Front Wheel Assembly
Front Wheel Installation
Battery
Front Number Plate
Fuel Tank Vent Hose
Brake Disc Cleaning

PREPARATION
Charged Battery Service
Air Cleaner
Front Brake
Rear Brake
Clutch
Drive Chain
Front Fork
Rear Shock Absorber
Tire Air Pressures
Coolant
Engine Oil
Throttle Grip and Cable
Fastener Check
Test Ride
You forgot one thing.


* Unlock ECU - $750.00

Tongue
3
Brent
Posts
5846
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Location
Temecula, CA, USA
5/26/2021 9:31am
CKNY wrote:
Went to my local Husky/Beta dealer today. Only one bike on the floor which was the sales managers Beta 125 RE Demo. He told me he...
Went to my local Husky/Beta dealer today. Only one bike on the floor which was the sales managers Beta 125 RE Demo. He told me he is getting aprox. 30 Husky units, less than half of what he ordered. Every bike is pre sold. Said he would not have any floor units till November. Glad I got my 21 back in September. All the other KTM/Husky dealers I know saying the same. Less than half what they ordered and all bikes pre sold.
I was told the same thing.

All of the 2022 KTM/Husqvarna Motocross and off road motorcycles my local dealer ordered are already committed. They are trying to get more, but KTM can only produce so many bikes.

No Gas Gas bikes until September at the earliest.
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seth505
Posts
10210
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Location
SD, CA, USA
5/26/2021 9:36am
Several dealers were asking around $10,200 for an RMZ 250 when I bought mine in January. Crazy times...
mark_swart
Posts
2524
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC, USA
5/26/2021 10:35am
I'm the original poster - thanks everyone for your insights. I'm going to follow up on a positive note.

First, again, having not bought a brand new bike in a long time, I think it's pretty crappy for the manufacturers to tack on that $485 mandatory shipping fee and then make the dealers the bad guys who have to break that news to customers.

I used to work at a dealership, and I certainly know they have to make a profit and that margins aren't huge. But no, I'm not going to feel bad about calling someone out who is blatantly marking up a product just because they can.

But I took some advice from this thread. As I continued to call around, I paid attention who who was nice and who didn't seem to give a shit that I wanted to buy a $10K TOY from them. I found the best price at a dealer about 5 hours from me, and I was willing to drive it. But I took a shot by calling back a closer dealer, one of the ones that was actually FRIENDLY and RESPONSIVE when I contacted them at first, and asked if they could come close to the other dealer's price. They couldn't match, but they came close enough that I'm sure it would offset my time, gas, etc., to get to the other dealer. Plus, I'm hopefully starting a great relationship with a dealer closer to home. I sent them a deposit and I should have a '22 350 SXF as soon as it arrives.

I am SO ready to get this process over with and speak with my wallet!!

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5/26/2021 10:46am
mark_swart wrote:
I'm the original poster - thanks everyone for your insights. I'm going to follow up on a positive note. First, again, having not bought a brand...
I'm the original poster - thanks everyone for your insights. I'm going to follow up on a positive note.

First, again, having not bought a brand new bike in a long time, I think it's pretty crappy for the manufacturers to tack on that $485 mandatory shipping fee and then make the dealers the bad guys who have to break that news to customers.

I used to work at a dealership, and I certainly know they have to make a profit and that margins aren't huge. But no, I'm not going to feel bad about calling someone out who is blatantly marking up a product just because they can.

But I took some advice from this thread. As I continued to call around, I paid attention who who was nice and who didn't seem to give a shit that I wanted to buy a $10K TOY from them. I found the best price at a dealer about 5 hours from me, and I was willing to drive it. But I took a shot by calling back a closer dealer, one of the ones that was actually FRIENDLY and RESPONSIVE when I contacted them at first, and asked if they could come close to the other dealer's price. They couldn't match, but they came close enough that I'm sure it would offset my time, gas, etc., to get to the other dealer. Plus, I'm hopefully starting a great relationship with a dealer closer to home. I sent them a deposit and I should have a '22 350 SXF as soon as it arrives.

I am SO ready to get this process over with and speak with my wallet!!

First off congrats on the new bike and enjoy it! secondly you bought the wrong bike if you are trying to "speak with your wallet"
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