Pulp Dr Leatt interview

APLMAN99
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5/17/2021 9:18am
mx617 wrote:
How about at least some context on why it's an interesting listen? Some clue as to what it's about?
Motodave15 wrote:
Fuck man, I'm really wondering if people are as time pressed as they claim (I claim bs, people like to pretend they're oh so busy, not...
Fuck man, I'm really wondering if people are as time pressed as they claim (I claim bs, people like to pretend they're oh so busy, not you specifically mx617, but others in this thread)... the whole pod is 1hr and 40 mins....

1. He goes through his background
2. He talks about the why and how of the neckbraces
3. The cadaver testing they use with some muscle stuff
4. Ryno and gypsy refuse to go, with their claims based on pseudo science.
5. People in positions of influence need to be more responsible, instead of making baseless claims

It's a very very indepth interview and I will not be explaining every point, those are some basic highlights I took from it.

Start listening at 48mins to get to the meat and potatos of the interview.
davis224 wrote:
That's all people asking for cliff notes are really asking for. Just a brief overview "he talked about x and y but never really touched on...
That's all people asking for cliff notes are really asking for. Just a brief overview "he talked about x and y but never really touched on z", to see if it's worth investing the time into. I can't really play stuff in the background and pay attention to it, if I'm listening, I'm just listening, not anything else.
Same. My commute is 6-10 minutes. And I really don't have the ability to play a podcast in the background the way I can read during the 4-7 hours of meetings I seem to have every single day so I prefer printed interviews for the most part. I agree that there is some nuance lost, but it is what it is.

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Adam43
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5/17/2021 9:32am
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury.

Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position.

Both things can be true.
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stremme12
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5/17/2021 9:43am Edited Date/Time 5/17/2021 9:57am
Adam43 wrote:
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury. Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position. Both...
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury.

Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position.

Both things can be true.
Ryno has gone deeper than just riding position. He claims it's more dangerous to wear because of the damage is can cause to your spine. It's not just about riding style to him. He truly thinks it can break your back.

In the Pulp interview Leatt covers the spinal part as well. He says that the piece that is meant to break under pressure is only breaking at 10% of what the spine can actually take therefore it is actually safe for your spine to take the pressure.

Here I have tried to provide both sides of the story but I would listen to the Pulp interview and watch the videos on Ryno's instagram to gather information for youself.

I myself have experienced enough of an impact to cause the carbon fiber piece going down your spine to snap. My back was a little sore but in my case I was fine.
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stremme12
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The Shop

Timo
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5/17/2021 1:19pm
Claims:
That wearing braces in Dakar has lessened the amount of broken neck deaths. Any deaths that are a result of a broken neck weren't wearing a brace.

Less rider neck fatigue.

40% reduction of broken collar bones, he was surprised by this.

60% reduction of deaths vs no brace.

Original brace is still their benchmark for testing new ones.

Has invited Ryno to come to the lab and see the testing in-house, he has yet to accept the offer.

The brace isn't causing broken backs, the area that is most commonly injured while riding is the same with or without a brace.

Collar bone injuries aren't caused by the brace, it would break the other side vs the side you crashed on.


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seth505
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5/17/2021 1:27pm
Adam43 wrote:
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury. Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position. Both...
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury.

Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position.

Both things can be true.
What Ryno believes means zero, not sure why people put weight behind it because he used to ride a dirt bike fast.

If you think both are true then prove it out. It's very easy, put a brace on, get on your bike and see if you can't look up or if you lose your range of motion to move relative to the bike. The test either works or it doesn't, doesn't matter what anyone believes.
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deluxeman
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5/17/2021 1:43pm
Less pros now more than ever wearing neck braces. Still pulp has an extremely pro neck brace ad in all of his shows. I’m confident I...
Less pros now more than ever wearing neck braces. Still pulp has an extremely pro neck brace ad in all of his shows. I’m confident I already know the tempo of this without even listening to it.
It is very funny that Steve is a very big advocate of the neck brace, yet he doesn't wear one himself.

Always says " I probably should start wearing one". Seems a little disingenuous to me.


Hey I guess we are all selling something
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Johnny Ringo
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5/17/2021 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2021 1:48pm
Adam43 wrote:
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury. Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position. Both...
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury.

Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position.

Both things can be true.
seth505 wrote:
What Ryno believes means zero, not sure why people put weight behind it because he used to ride a dirt bike fast. If you think both...
What Ryno believes means zero, not sure why people put weight behind it because he used to ride a dirt bike fast.

If you think both are true then prove it out. It's very easy, put a brace on, get on your bike and see if you can't look up or if you lose your range of motion to move relative to the bike. The test either works or it doesn't, doesn't matter what anyone believes.
I get rynos point of a “better” riding position means less self induced crashes...maybe. But what if my engine seizes on the lip of a triple? Or the bike throws a chain? Or a guy cross jumps me? There are so many more variables at play than just my technique.
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LungButter
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5/17/2021 2:10pm
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once we introduced the neck brace not a single one has died of a neck injury."

That seems like a stretch, like I said I've been following it a long time, I don't remember a death or 2 every year pre-neck brace. Am I wrong? That was a long time ago now, but a professional rider dying every year? I just don't remember that happening.
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KennyT
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5/17/2021 2:36pm
Adam43 wrote:
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury. Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position. Both...
Leatt believes that their brace provides greater protection from catastrophic spinal injury.

Ryno believes braces make it more difficult to maintain an optimal riding position.

Both things can be true.
Which makes me believe there is a reason we see them on amateur riders/weekend warriors who are trying to save themselves from catastrophic injury and not as much on Pros who r fighting for every micro second to make a living.

All I know is if it’s me making the choice to protect my kids/grandkids from paralysis they would all wear neck braces.
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brimx153
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5/17/2021 3:53pm
brimx153 wrote:
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is...
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is it better to ride with something that might protect you but puts you in a bad place on the bike which cause more crashes . Imo. Some people can wear them and it doesn't affect them . Either with long neck s or very flexible people. But i see so many weekend warriors wearing them who should nt . Guy s not in the best of shape say . Who cant see up when wearing one . Its ridiculous and dangerous. being able to see down the track in proper riding position is very important. I think if it doesn't affect you wear one away imo it wont do any harm . But if u can't see 100m down a straight while standing in the proper attack position. You are a danger to yourself and all around you
CASH476 wrote:
He did address the fact that the brace can be worn while riding and his brace was worn by riders while winning 15 (I think) world...
He did address the fact that the brace can be worn while riding and his brace was worn by riders while winning 15 (I think) world & US MX and SX titles. The number would be higher counting other brands as well. He also addressed that you would at time feel the brace and need to adapt to it.
I agree it can . But not by all . People are different body shapes. No way could Carmichael wear one without hindering his movement. The idea that people adapt is Ryno s main point. You will always move your body to see . Its automatic .
Again i think some people can wear them without hindering movement. But some riders can not get over the back of the bike without not seeing .
brimx153
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5/17/2021 3:58pm
LungButter wrote:
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once...
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once we introduced the neck brace not a single one has died of a neck injury."

That seems like a stretch, like I said I've been following it a long time, I don't remember a death or 2 every year pre-neck brace. Am I wrong? That was a long time ago now, but a professional rider dying every year? I just don't remember that happening.
Thats more than a stretch . Seem s like a huge lie
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enketchum
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5/17/2021 3:59pm
Crush wrote:
No. You can choose to listen to it or not, I’m not a fuckin secretary.
S.Loyer wrote:
Seriously, you guys always asking for breakdowns is really annoying. Specially on a giant long form interview where they covered so much. If you got time...
Seriously, you guys always asking for breakdowns is really annoying. Specially on a giant long form interview where they covered so much.


If you got time to be on Vital, you got time to put it on in the background. If you don't really give a shit what he has to say dont listen and dont ask for a breakdown.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
It's too bad these things are not transcribed somewhere , I know that's a lot of work , but personally I'd rather read an interview...
It's too bad these things are not transcribed somewhere , I know that's a lot of work , but personally I'd rather read an interview . I hate listening to and or watching them . Always have . It bores me for whatever reason. I'd imagine there are others who feel the same.
I partially transcribed a section of a show about Mike Alessi on here for a thread and it was a pain in the ass
5/17/2021 4:06pm
Crush wrote:
Big crash at a National after returning from the States and passed away. Not sure the Doc said it, long time ago now, but remember Chad...
Big crash at a National after returning from the States and passed away. Not sure the Doc said it, long time ago now, but remember Chad saying in a later, I think Pulp Interview, the data or facts he saw implied the brace caused the fatality. Chad was an A-Stars brace athlete at the time and took it off the next season.

I can't remember which brace he was wearing but it was relatively early days of it and he died at the scene due to head injuries.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/motorcyclist-killed-at-australian-mot…
Thanks Crush, I do remember this, although I hoped the finer details may have been announced in some publication.
I did hear from a rider there on that day that said there must have been a big wound!!

As stated above it was the early days of braces, no doubt the manufacturers have made changes or improvements.

I don't race any more so I don't have a brace to replace my original Leat, which was bulky but did give me a sense of protection.
Crush
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5/17/2021 7:23pm
I can’t think of any pro rider that has been paralysed when wearing a neck brace.
Wasn't Marv's brother wearing one?

The Doc also made the point that T7 (think it was T7) is the most common spine fracture point, irrespective of whether you're wearing a brace or not... so pointing to that as a particular fulcrum point doesn't hold up statistically.
TallonT911
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5/17/2021 7:34pm
LungButter wrote:
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once...
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once we introduced the neck brace not a single one has died of a neck injury."

That seems like a stretch, like I said I've been following it a long time, I don't remember a death or 2 every year pre-neck brace. Am I wrong? That was a long time ago now, but a professional rider dying every year? I just don't remember that happening.
brimx153 wrote:
Thats more than a stretch . Seem s like a huge lie
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually hitting the ground.. in that scenario there are major benefits from the neck brace.
LungButter
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5/17/2021 7:56pm
TallonT911 wrote:
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually...
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually hitting the ground.. in that scenario there are major benefits from the neck brace.
He also said a professional rider or 2 was dying every year until his brace came along which isn’t even close to true.

If you read the WikiPedia link I posted, probably half or more of the motorcycle deaths weren’t even from neck injuries.

Then later in the interview he said “If your going to say something you should back it with data.” Well he said it and the data don’t back it up....
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Johnny Ringo
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5/17/2021 8:19pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2021 8:20pm
TallonT911 wrote:
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually...
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually hitting the ground.. in that scenario there are major benefits from the neck brace.
LungButter wrote:
He also said a professional rider or 2 was dying every year until his brace came along which isn’t even close to true. If you read...
He also said a professional rider or 2 was dying every year until his brace came along which isn’t even close to true.

If you read the WikiPedia link I posted, probably half or more of the motorcycle deaths weren’t even from neck injuries.

Then later in the interview he said “If your going to say something you should back it with data.” Well he said it and the data don’t back it up....
You’re paraphrasing a bit there and lacking the context for the era he was talking about.
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Natester551v
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5/17/2021 8:23pm
LungButter wrote:
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once...
Listening now, he just said "At the time they were losing one, or even 2, professional riders every year in Dakar due to broken necks. Once we introduced the neck brace not a single one has died of a neck injury."

That seems like a stretch, like I said I've been following it a long time, I don't remember a death or 2 every year pre-neck brace. Am I wrong? That was a long time ago now, but a professional rider dying every year? I just don't remember that happening.
brimx153 wrote:
Thats more than a stretch . Seem s like a huge lie
TallonT911 wrote:
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually...
He mentioned that a lot of the injuries at Dakar come from the riders hitting the navigation tower while going over the bars, not from actually hitting the ground.. in that scenario there are major benefits from the neck brace.
I believe that's how Fabrizio Meoni died...
5/17/2021 8:27pm
I thought Leatt came across well on the podcast, not too self-promoting or as a brace salesman. Seemed obvious to me that his drive to make the product came from his compassion as a physician and curiosity as a scientist. Surely it's worked out well for him financially, but I am not going to fault him for that.

Also, his offer to Ryno is pretty generous. He could easily just write him off as a raving lunatic, but he realizes Ryno does have a big following and he'd at least like the chance to show Ryno his side. That Hughes is not willing or interested to take him up, speaks volumes about one of the two of them.

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LungButter
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5/17/2021 8:38pm
You’re paraphrasing a bit there and lacking the context for the era he was talking about.
He said a motorcycle rider was dying every year, he even said “we’re talking professionals here”. No matter the era that’s just not even close to true. Have broken necks caused deaths at Dakar? Certainly, but no where near the frequency he wanted listeners to believe.

I encourage you to read the link I posted, many of the deaths at Dakar were not caused by neck injuries.

If smacking the tower with your head and breaking your neck was such a problem don’t you think they’d still be wearing neck braces instead of air bag vests?
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milamcreek
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5/17/2021 9:41pm
Please dont base any of your decisions on anything Ryno has to say. Use common sense and be informed from all sides and choose what works best for you.
5/17/2021 10:11pm
I can’t think of any pro rider that has been paralysed when wearing a neck brace.
Crush wrote:
Wasn't Marv's brother wearing one? The Doc also made the point that T7 (think it was T7) is the most common spine fracture point, irrespective of...
Wasn't Marv's brother wearing one?

The Doc also made the point that T7 (think it was T7) is the most common spine fracture point, irrespective of whether you're wearing a brace or not... so pointing to that as a particular fulcrum point doesn't hold up statistically.
Yes you are correct, I thought there was one. Marvin did carry on wearing one for a few years after.
Johnny Ringo
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5/18/2021 4:48am
You’re paraphrasing a bit there and lacking the context for the era he was talking about.
LungButter wrote:
He said a motorcycle rider was dying every year, he even said “we’re talking professionals here”. No matter the era that’s just not even close to...
He said a motorcycle rider was dying every year, he even said “we’re talking professionals here”. No matter the era that’s just not even close to true. Have broken necks caused deaths at Dakar? Certainly, but no where near the frequency he wanted listeners to believe.

I encourage you to read the link I posted, many of the deaths at Dakar were not caused by neck injuries.

If smacking the tower with your head and breaking your neck was such a problem don’t you think they’d still be wearing neck braces instead of air bag vests?
He said KTM and BMW invested because they were having deaths every year...which from 2005-2007 they were. Context matters here.
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LungButter
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5/18/2021 5:04am
He said KTM and BMW invested because they were having deaths every year...which from 2005-2007 they were. Context matters here.
Did he use the context of those 3 years only?

Not even close. He played it up hugely in my opinion.

Same thing I’d do if I had to sell neck braces to put food on the table....
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Johnny Ringo
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5/18/2021 5:15am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2021 5:17am
He said KTM and BMW invested because they were having deaths every year...which from 2005-2007 they were. Context matters here.
LungButter wrote:
Did he use the context of those 3 years only? Not even close. He played it up hugely in my opinion. Same thing I’d do if...
Did he use the context of those 3 years only?

Not even close. He played it up hugely in my opinion.

Same thing I’d do if I had to sell neck braces to put food on the table....
They were talking about that era when the deaths were mentioned. Context.
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Madmax31
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5/18/2021 11:45am
brimx153 wrote:
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is...
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is it better to ride with something that might protect you but puts you in a bad place on the bike which cause more crashes . Imo. Some people can wear them and it doesn't affect them . Either with long neck s or very flexible people. But i see so many weekend warriors wearing them who should nt . Guy s not in the best of shape say . Who cant see up when wearing one . Its ridiculous and dangerous. being able to see down the track in proper riding position is very important. I think if it doesn't affect you wear one away imo it wont do any harm . But if u can't see 100m down a straight while standing in the proper attack position. You are a danger to yourself and all around you
Dude...you are a special kind of dumb. Laughing
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brimx153
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5/18/2021 4:26pm
brimx153 wrote:
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is...
Is nt Ryno main point , that you cant be in proper riding position wearing one . Not if it works or not . Then is it better to ride with something that might protect you but puts you in a bad place on the bike which cause more crashes . Imo. Some people can wear them and it doesn't affect them . Either with long neck s or very flexible people. But i see so many weekend warriors wearing them who should nt . Guy s not in the best of shape say . Who cant see up when wearing one . Its ridiculous and dangerous. being able to see down the track in proper riding position is very important. I think if it doesn't affect you wear one away imo it wont do any harm . But if u can't see 100m down a straight while standing in the proper attack position. You are a danger to yourself and all around you
Madmax31 wrote:
Dude...you are a special kind of dumb. Laughing
Dude ... you are a special kind of asshole. What exactly did i say was dumb ?
5/23/2021 1:19pm
Great listen, I feel like if you have some time it’s easy to click and listen to, or even if you’re occupied doing something else that isn’t too distracting from grasping the key points Chris and Steve are making. Insightful enough to keep you listening, and neither of them are straying away from topics that people want to know. I’m sure this will make people think twice regarding the science and studies that goes into overall protection, not just neck braces.
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