2022 bike rumors

tyleredwards587 4/15/2021 11:48am
4/15/2021 11:48am
Yep... KTM's are going to be the same. We have some on order at the dealership I work at in South FL. Supposed to start arriving in June.
BRAPPWHIP86
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BRAPPWHIP86 4/15/2021 11:52am
4/15/2021 11:52am
Everything is BNG
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 4/15/2021 1:19pm
4/15/2021 1:19pm
Are any manufactures "due" for a new model besides Honda with the CRF250?
mattyhamz2 4/15/2021 1:23pm
4/15/2021 1:23pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Are any manufactures "due" for a new model besides Honda with the CRF250?
Yamaha is at 4 years now. 2018-2021.

The Shop

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Dirty Points 4/15/2021 1:35pm
4/15/2021 1:35pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
Are any manufactures "due" for a new model besides Honda with the CRF250?
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Yamaha is at 4 years now. 2018-2021.
But did get a pretty significant mid-cycle chassis and engine update in 2020.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 4/15/2021 1:44pm
4/15/2021 1:44pm
The Beta is slated for possible November production, which would make it VERY late for a '22. I've suggested they should just call it a '23 and therefore be included in the reviews etc.
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 4/15/2021 2:11pm
4/15/2021 2:11pm
Please, Suzuki... Something!
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skeef
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skeef 4/15/2021 3:15pm
4/15/2021 3:15pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
Please, Suzuki... Something!
They have other priorities
rmgsxr
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rmgsxr 4/15/2021 4:18pm
4/15/2021 4:18pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Yes, how dare they not make a model that will sell 100 units a year
RMT wrote:
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same...
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same time period for comparison. If you add in the white and red versions, its only another 500 units in the past 12 months.

At the end of the day this is a business and nobody is looking at building a bike that currently sells 1300 units a year. Its a great bike and is perfect for the non-skinny vet guys, but until they have a class for 350's only, you're probably not going to see a major investment from any other OEM. They are like the 150cc two strokes (483 sold last year), great bikes and Vets love them but with no real racing class they don't sell many.

And to respond to the blue pig statement, America must be one big blue pig loving country because the YZ250F and YZ450F outsell every other bike in their category.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

Trust his numbers.

When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and UTV sales numbers compared to dirt bikes it makes you wonder why the manufactures waste their time with MX bikes. We as enthusiasts want to believe our passion is the most important. its not.
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rmgsxr
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rmgsxr 4/15/2021 4:26pm
4/15/2021 4:26pm
GrapeApe wrote:
RMT you could just share your MIC login information and avoid all these questions. Please and thanks.

lol
RMT wrote:
Sure. User ID: Rich-Cain69@douchenozzle.com Password: Moran Not case sensitive. LOL This is probably the most posts in one day I have ever had for the past...
Sure.

User ID: Rich-Cain69@douchenozzle.com
Password: Moran

Not case sensitive. LOL

This is probably the most posts in one day I have ever had for the past 15 years Ive been on this site. Shoot, you could probably add in motodrive, freshdirt and wherever we came from before that. haha.

How am I doing Bart?
My computer just blew up trying to use that login!

You're doing just fine even if most don't believe you.

My question is, is the CRF50 still the best selling dirt bike or has it been passed?
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/15/2021 4:32pm
4/15/2021 4:32pm
RMT wrote:
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same...
To be factual, KTM sold 843 350 SX's in the last 12 months, 254 less than the year before. Suzuki sold 911 RMZ250's in the same time period for comparison. If you add in the white and red versions, its only another 500 units in the past 12 months.

At the end of the day this is a business and nobody is looking at building a bike that currently sells 1300 units a year. Its a great bike and is perfect for the non-skinny vet guys, but until they have a class for 350's only, you're probably not going to see a major investment from any other OEM. They are like the 150cc two strokes (483 sold last year), great bikes and Vets love them but with no real racing class they don't sell many.

And to respond to the blue pig statement, America must be one big blue pig loving country because the YZ250F and YZ450F outsell every other bike in their category.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

rmgsxr wrote:
Trust his numbers. When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and...
Trust his numbers.

When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and UTV sales numbers compared to dirt bikes it makes you wonder why the manufactures waste their time with MX bikes. We as enthusiasts want to believe our passion is the most important. its not.
I believe his numbers, but I'm glad he clarified it was for US sales only.
Dirty Points 4/15/2021 5:04pm
4/15/2021 5:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2021 5:07pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig. Where are you getting your numbers?? Not...
American's do love their pigs, no question about that. Fast food and obesity fit right in with the pig.

Where are you getting your numbers?? Not saying you are wrong but what is the source of your numbers above? Are you a dealer?

rmgsxr wrote:
Trust his numbers. When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and...
Trust his numbers.

When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and UTV sales numbers compared to dirt bikes it makes you wonder why the manufactures waste their time with MX bikes. We as enthusiasts want to believe our passion is the most important. its not.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I believe his numbers, but I'm glad he clarified it was for US sales only.
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/15/2021 5:13pm
4/15/2021 5:13pm
rmgsxr wrote:
Trust his numbers. When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and...
Trust his numbers.

When you actually get to see true numbers sold there can be some very big surprises. Like, if you see actual ATV and UTV sales numbers compared to dirt bikes it makes you wonder why the manufactures waste their time with MX bikes. We as enthusiasts want to believe our passion is the most important. its not.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
I believe his numbers, but I'm glad he clarified it was for US sales only.
Dirty Points wrote:
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement This is from a Yamaha annual...
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
On the flip side, if bike sales are weak it's interesting why we would have so many brands to choose from in just recent years...not too long ago all you heard about was the big 4...then KTM came in and started taking over...and now there's so many I can't keep track...so I'm sure bike sales are plentiful enough to make a profit:

Suzuki
Kawi
Honda
Yamaha
KTM
Husky
GasGas
TM
Sherco
Beta
Reiju

I'm sure I'm missing several others
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RMT
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RMT 4/15/2021 5:36pm
4/15/2021 5:36pm
rmgsxr wrote:
My computer just blew up trying to use that login! You're doing just fine even if most don't believe you. My question is, is the CRF50...
My computer just blew up trying to use that login!

You're doing just fine even if most don't believe you.

My question is, is the CRF50 still the best selling dirt bike or has it been passed?
Yes it is followed closely by the CRF110

The CRF50 is now the #2 selling motorcycle overall in the USA and barely behind #1, the HD Road Glide Special.

Top 250F - YZ250F (also top selling competition bike)
Top 450F - YZ450F
Top Off-road bike - KTM 300 XC-W tpi and also top seller for KTM.
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Brent
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Brent 4/15/2021 5:36pm
4/15/2021 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2021 5:37pm
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will not fit on the 2023 production or the 2022.5 FE's

It will be a buyer's market for used WP Pro (Cone Valve) shit about this time next year...

waiting to hear about wheels...

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RMT
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RMT 4/15/2021 5:44pm
4/15/2021 5:44pm
Dirty Points wrote:
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement This is from a Yamaha annual...
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
And why Suzuki switched their focus from the US to the emerging markets in Asia 10 years ago.

Just a normal day in Saigon.

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 4/15/2021 5:52pm
4/15/2021 5:52pm
Brent wrote:
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will [u]not[/u] fit on the 2023 production or the...
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will not fit on the 2023 production or the 2022.5 FE's

It will be a buyer's market for used WP Pro (Cone Valve) shit about this time next year...

waiting to hear about wheels...

Great, those 52mm spring forks have been winning Championships the World over for a few decades now, about time they put them on production bikes!
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Chippy
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Chippy 4/15/2021 6:14pm
4/15/2021 6:14pm
Brent wrote:
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will [u]not[/u] fit on the 2023 production or the...
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will not fit on the 2023 production or the 2022.5 FE's

It will be a buyer's market for used WP Pro (Cone Valve) shit about this time next year...

waiting to hear about wheels...

Just bought a ‘21 so I’ll be interested to see how that plays out

Pit Row

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bvm111
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bvm111 4/15/2021 6:28pm
4/15/2021 6:28pm
Brent wrote:
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will [u]not[/u] fit on the 2023 production or the...
oh - and KTM/Husky guys who JUST invested in WP Pro components ( like I did), they will not fit on the 2023 production or the 2022.5 FE's

It will be a buyer's market for used WP Pro (Cone Valve) shit about this time next year...

waiting to hear about wheels...

could you elaborate on that... what are you hearing that is changing on the forks?
GeorgiePorgie 4/15/2021 6:30pm
4/15/2021 6:30pm
2023 rolling out the fuel injected cr125. I have connections. Don’t doubt me.
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nickm
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nickm 4/15/2021 7:05pm
4/15/2021 7:05pm
Dirty Points wrote:
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement This is from a Yamaha annual...
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
True but I'd like to see average price per unit sold on that. I'd suspect the Japan, Europe and North America numbers are well over $10K ARPU, especially when you're moving $10K YZ450s and $25K R1Ms. What would the Asia ARPU be? would it even be $1K?

Assuming those ARPU numbers and doing some rough math give the EU/NA/Japan market a revenue of $3.4B and the Asia market a revenue of $4.4B. Still pretty good gravy when you're selling less but at bigger numbers.




dcg141
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dcg141 4/15/2021 7:34pm
4/15/2021 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2021 7:39pm
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not reach 3000. KTM owns almost 43% of that market in the US. Followed by Yamaha then Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki in that order. A more shocking figure is that in 2020 in CA, KTM passed Yamaha and Kawasaki in total motorcycle sales and is getting ever closer to Harley and Honda...in total MC sales.
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Black Diesel Bomber 4/15/2021 7:47pm
4/15/2021 7:47pm
dcg141 wrote:
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not...
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not reach 3000. KTM owns almost 43% of that market in the US. Followed by Yamaha then Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki in that order. A more shocking figure is that in 2020 in CA, KTM passed Yamaha and Kawasaki in total motorcycle sales and is getting ever closer to Harley and Honda...in total MC sales.
Well, that sounds a little different than what the other guy posted. Very interesting and believable that KTM owns this market now and will probably continue to grab market share unless the japanese put their pigs on a diet.
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dcg141
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dcg141 4/15/2021 8:03pm
4/15/2021 8:03pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
Well, that sounds a little different than what the other guy posted. Very interesting and believable that KTM owns this market now and will probably continue...
Well, that sounds a little different than what the other guy posted. Very interesting and believable that KTM owns this market now and will probably continue to grab market share unless the japanese put their pigs on a diet.
Take into consideration that there are large segments that KTM does not even have bikes. No Cruisers and more importantly no beginner off-road. Beginner off-road is a huge part of Honda and Yamaha's total MC numbers. Honda sells a lot of CRF's not so many CR's
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Titan1
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Titan1 4/15/2021 8:13pm
4/15/2021 8:13pm
dcg141 wrote:
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not...
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not reach 3000. KTM owns almost 43% of that market in the US. Followed by Yamaha then Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki in that order. A more shocking figure is that in 2020 in CA, KTM passed Yamaha and Kawasaki in total motorcycle sales and is getting ever closer to Harley and Honda...in total MC sales.
Is that all KTM lines (husky and GG...were GG’s even for sale in 2020)? Or just KTM’s?
Brent
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Brent 4/15/2021 8:20pm
4/15/2021 8:20pm
dcg141 wrote:
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not...
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not reach 3000. KTM owns almost 43% of that market in the US. Followed by Yamaha then Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki in that order. A more shocking figure is that in 2020 in CA, KTM passed Yamaha and Kawasaki in total motorcycle sales and is getting ever closer to Harley and Honda...in total MC sales.
The California numbers are not surprising. Lately I see more husqvarnas and gas gas then KTM around here. Today At GH it was mostly Austrian bikes and YZ 250 f’s on both tracks.

I spoke to the owner of a significant dealership, he said they could sell a lot more of the Austrian bikes if they could
get them- they get bought up as soon as they are assembled.

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Titan1
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Titan1 4/15/2021 8:24pm
4/15/2021 8:24pm
dcg141 wrote:
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not...
KTM sold nearly 32,000 off road competition bikes in 2020 in the US. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki combined sold right at 42,000. Suzuki did not reach 3000. KTM owns almost 43% of that market in the US. Followed by Yamaha then Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki in that order. A more shocking figure is that in 2020 in CA, KTM passed Yamaha and Kawasaki in total motorcycle sales and is getting ever closer to Harley and Honda...in total MC sales.
Here is a market sample of the top 50 or so finishers at a hare and hound from my local series a couple months ago...Not a large sample size...but a lot of KTM’s on the line (12)..7 yamahas (8 really because they have me on a Suzuki for some reason), and 7 husky’s...


Dirty Points 4/15/2021 9:53pm
4/15/2021 9:53pm
Dirty Points wrote:
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement This is from a Yamaha annual...
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
nickm wrote:
True but I'd like to see average price per unit sold on that. I'd suspect the Japan, Europe and North America numbers are well over $10K...
True but I'd like to see average price per unit sold on that. I'd suspect the Japan, Europe and North America numbers are well over $10K ARPU, especially when you're moving $10K YZ450s and $25K R1Ms. What would the Asia ARPU be? would it even be $1K?

Assuming those ARPU numbers and doing some rough math give the EU/NA/Japan market a revenue of $3.4B and the Asia market a revenue of $4.4B. Still pretty good gravy when you're selling less but at bigger numbers.




Nah. EU/NA revenue is a pretty small fraction of Asia revenue, even with higher unit cost.


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BeachMX
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BeachMX 4/15/2021 10:43pm
4/15/2021 10:43pm
Dirty Points wrote:
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement This is from a Yamaha annual...
When you look at the global market, it shifts the focus even more away from making a niche MX displacement

This is from a Yamaha annual financial reports (since they have pictures):


That little teeny-weeny sliver above Japan is the entire North American motorcycle market: street, dirt, whatever.

Take a look at that Asia market. They don't even offer YZ450s there.
RMT wrote:
And why Suzuki switched their focus from the US to the emerging markets in Asia 10 years ago. Just a normal day in Saigon. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/04/15/487902/s1200_1521FF7F_F6ED_48CE_A7F4_14F52B0E4606.jpg[/img]
And why Suzuki switched their focus from the US to the emerging markets in Asia 10 years ago.

Just a normal day in Saigon.

Saigon is really like that actually... craziest thing I have ever seen. Absolute chaos, but it works for some reason.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 4/15/2021 11:31pm
4/15/2021 11:31pm
All new bikes that i expect for 2022:
CRF250R
YZ450F
KTM/Husky/GasGas 2022 Factory Edition 450 (and maybe also 250?)
.
.
Small hope that the 2022 YZ125 gets an updated engine.
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