Cooper fires back at Kenny

JM485
Profile picture for user JM485
Posts
5819
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA, USA
JM485 3/7/2021 1:53pm
3/7/2021 1:53pm
The biggest thing is that move stopped Kenny from sprinting at the beginning of the race, which is his strong suit. Webb knows that he can’t match Kenny’s early race aggression and speed, so it’s extremely important for him to get in front of Ken early and not let Ken check out. Frustrating move if you’re Ken, but brilliant move on Coop’s part.
31
3
mxwells216 3/7/2021 2:00pm
3/7/2021 2:00pm
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the game. If Webb wins his heat, make sure you get 2nd in yours so he gets first choice. Kenny has to start playing the way Webb plays. This mr nice guy and we should just race with no contact or shady passes isn't going to happen. Webb is a gamer and KR has to step up the mental game. Webb tried last year with ET and it didn't work cause ET has the other worldy speed and that usually trumped everything Webb tried.
3
7
JB 19
Profile picture for user JB 19
Posts
4344
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH, USA
JB 19 3/7/2021 2:10pm
3/7/2021 2:10pm
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have been. Make a pass that nobody else could or digs deep and does what it takes to hold someone off or catch someone faster in front of him the last 5 laps.

It's the equivalent of manufacturing a run in baseball. Bunt to get to first base, steal 2nd, sacrifice fly to advance to 3rd, sacrifice fly to get the guy to home. That's Cooper's style, and you can criticize all you want, but it's going to win him a couple more championships.

36
Logan_724
Profile picture for user Logan_724
Posts
152
Joined
2/20/2021
Location
Greenville, SC, USA
Logan_724 3/7/2021 2:18pm
3/7/2021 2:18pm
mxwells216 wrote:
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the...
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the game. If Webb wins his heat, make sure you get 2nd in yours so he gets first choice. Kenny has to start playing the way Webb plays. This mr nice guy and we should just race with no contact or shady passes isn't going to happen. Webb is a gamer and KR has to step up the mental game. Webb tried last year with ET and it didn't work cause ET has the other worldy speed and that usually trumped everything Webb tried.
Had coop not had that major crash he would have won the championship last year lol
4
13

The Shop

See All »
Jordan421 3/7/2021 2:21pm
3/7/2021 2:21pm
This sport has become so soft these days...
People are really crying about a block pass that didn’t leave either rider on the ground or damage to the bike.
31
yak651
Profile picture for user yak651
Posts
8861
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
1358th
yak651 3/7/2021 2:23pm
3/7/2021 2:23pm
If Kenny didn’t keep taking the outside in that sand section probably could’ve made a move. Every lap gets up to coop and then goes outside while Webb goes inside. Webb pulls 5 bike lengths and the process starts all over again, think his mechanic would’ve put it on the pit board as he couldn’t figure it out...
11
hamncheeze
Profile picture for user hamncheeze
Posts
2427
Joined
1/13/2018
Location
British Columbia, CA
hamncheeze 3/7/2021 2:28pm
3/7/2021 2:28pm
JB 19 wrote:
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have...
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have been. Make a pass that nobody else could or digs deep and does what it takes to hold someone off or catch someone faster in front of him the last 5 laps.

It's the equivalent of manufacturing a run in baseball. Bunt to get to first base, steal 2nd, sacrifice fly to advance to 3rd, sacrifice fly to get the guy to home. That's Cooper's style, and you can criticize all you want, but it's going to win him a couple more championships.

So you are saying a guy with a 250 National title, a 450 SX title and two 250 SX titles is an over-achiever? I get the point you are making, but he's certainly not over-achieving.

Webb is a racer. He has a race craft and nuance to what it going on around him that seemingly most other guys don't. The way he's picked Roczen's pocket repeatedly, his brake slide in the first turn on Tomac at one of the SLC rounds last year, his ability to adapt and change his lines up as the race goes on....he's on another level than the rest of the guys on that front.

Hot take: When we leave Arlington he's got the red plate and a 5-8 point lead and we don't see him challenged by Roczen for the title.
8
6
MVP44
Profile picture for user MVP44
Posts
18
Joined
1/30/2021
Location
Ridgefield, WA, USA
MVP44 3/7/2021 2:35pm
3/7/2021 2:35pm
kpiper wrote:
Kenny's comments we the result of years of frustration with Webb getting in front of him like that, not just last night. It just finally spilled...
Kenny's comments we the result of years of frustration with Webb getting in front of him like that, not just last night.

It just finally spilled over.
Yammyam wrote:
I think his comments were the result of his race being ruined by Webb. It was a good move but if you're in Kenny's shoes you...
I think his comments were the result of his race being ruined by Webb. It was a good move but if you're in Kenny's shoes you had a good start and Webb went out of way to ruin it, of course he's gunna be pissed. It's almost like some of you have never raced before.
Come on... he ran him wide, he didn’t put him on the ground.
Kenny had 20 minutes to make a run to the front from inside the top 10, the podium was never out of touch. For him to be so mad that he addresses being ran wide in the 1st turn of a 20 minute race is ridiculous. Kenny shot himself in the foot and the words he said at the last race came back to bite him “I’m not the one in a points deficit, we have some room to play with”.
Kenny is a great starter but running away the first few laps may not work anymore if he’s lined up next to Webb. Cool
11
mxwells216 3/7/2021 2:35pm
3/7/2021 2:35pm
mxwells216 wrote:
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the...
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the game. If Webb wins his heat, make sure you get 2nd in yours so he gets first choice. Kenny has to start playing the way Webb plays. This mr nice guy and we should just race with no contact or shady passes isn't going to happen. Webb is a gamer and KR has to step up the mental game. Webb tried last year with ET and it didn't work cause ET has the other worldy speed and that usually trumped everything Webb tried.
Logan_724 wrote:
Had coop not had that major crash he would have won the championship last year lol
But he did...you can say Tomac would be champ 2017 2018 if he didn't wreck...But ET was way stronger. I don't ever use could uh should uh would uh...
5
1
ShawdowGlen
Profile picture for user ShawdowGlen
Posts
803
Joined
1/1/2021
Location
La Mesa, CA, USA
ShawdowGlen 3/7/2021 2:44pm
3/7/2021 2:44pm
Jordan421 wrote:
This sport has become so soft these days... People are really crying about a block pass that didn’t leave either rider on the ground or damage...
This sport has become so soft these days...
People are really crying about a block pass that didn’t leave either rider on the ground or damage to the bike.
What do you expect from the "everyone gets a trophy" education system.

1
4
M1000
Profile picture for user M1000
Posts
603
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
CA
M1000 3/7/2021 3:00pm
3/7/2021 3:00pm
This remind me of 1991. Jean Micheal Bayle (Frenchman) vs Stanton, Bradshaw, Ward, Kiedrowski. JMB just shut up, and smoked the Yanks. Following year 1992 Bradshaw had JMB number, however Bradshaw caved to pressure and Stanton won in final Moto. 1993 McGrath arrives, dominates.
1
4
jemcee
Profile picture for user jemcee
Posts
12798
Joined
8/11/2008
Location
AU
jemcee 3/7/2021 3:37pm
3/7/2021 3:37pm
yak651 wrote:
If Kenny didn’t keep taking the outside in that sand section probably could’ve made a move. Every lap gets up to coop and then goes outside...
If Kenny didn’t keep taking the outside in that sand section probably could’ve made a move. Every lap gets up to coop and then goes outside while Webb goes inside. Webb pulls 5 bike lengths and the process starts all over again, think his mechanic would’ve put it on the pit board as he couldn’t figure it out...
The thing with that corner though, going in second he was gonna lose time no matter what cause if he followed to the inside Cooper would hose him with sand, which as anyone who has been roosted knows you lose sight of your line and in sand that results in a good chance of going down.. Also he would have gotten stuck behind Webb if he went down which happened a lot!
So he was kinda in a lose lose situation there
4
JB 19
Profile picture for user JB 19
Posts
4344
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH, USA
JB 19 3/7/2021 4:07pm
3/7/2021 4:07pm
JB 19 wrote:
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have...
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have been. Make a pass that nobody else could or digs deep and does what it takes to hold someone off or catch someone faster in front of him the last 5 laps.

It's the equivalent of manufacturing a run in baseball. Bunt to get to first base, steal 2nd, sacrifice fly to advance to 3rd, sacrifice fly to get the guy to home. That's Cooper's style, and you can criticize all you want, but it's going to win him a couple more championships.

hamncheeze wrote:
So you are saying a guy with a 250 National title, a 450 SX title and two 250 SX titles is an over-achiever? I get the...
So you are saying a guy with a 250 National title, a 450 SX title and two 250 SX titles is an over-achiever? I get the point you are making, but he's certainly not over-achieving.

Webb is a racer. He has a race craft and nuance to what it going on around him that seemingly most other guys don't. The way he's picked Roczen's pocket repeatedly, his brake slide in the first turn on Tomac at one of the SLC rounds last year, his ability to adapt and change his lines up as the race goes on....he's on another level than the rest of the guys on that front.

Hot take: When we leave Arlington he's got the red plate and a 5-8 point lead and we don't see him challenged by Roczen for the title.
I think we're agreeing with each other. Copper usually lacks a little straight line speed, but manages to figure it out.
2
JamesReed
Profile picture for user JamesReed
Posts
102
Joined
9/19/2020
Location
Watsonville, CA, USA
JamesReed 3/7/2021 4:10pm
3/7/2021 4:10pm
Ken just needs to cool off a bit and take things one race at a time. He had the speed to catch Webb, fall behind, then catch up again. I think that's what Webb is so good at. Not stressing, and just taking things one race, one corner at a time.
4
SEE ARE125 3/7/2021 4:16pm
3/7/2021 4:16pm
I’m not a huge Webb fan, but I don’t dislike the guy either. It doesn’t matter if you like Webb or not, you have to respect his ability to get in people’s heads. Roczen, Herlings, Tomac, he’s got mental real estate all over.
9
1
yz25
Profile picture for user yz25
Posts
521
Joined
1/12/2011
Location
Trussville, AL, USA
yz25 3/7/2021 5:28pm
3/7/2021 5:28pm
I’m a Kenny fan but man Webb has his number for sure. Webb doesn’t seem to crack under pressure and has the endurance to go the full length of the race at full speed.

RC didn’t seem to like Webb’s comment on the track. Lol

Either way makes for great racing!
3
Mit12
Profile picture for user Mit12
Posts
2212
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
Mit12 3/7/2021 5:35pm
3/7/2021 5:35pm
mxwells216 wrote:
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the...
If I was Roczen...I would start lining up on the inside of Webb on the starts and run him wide all of the time...start playing the game. If Webb wins his heat, make sure you get 2nd in yours so he gets first choice. Kenny has to start playing the way Webb plays. This mr nice guy and we should just race with no contact or shady passes isn't going to happen. Webb is a gamer and KR has to step up the mental game. Webb tried last year with ET and it didn't work cause ET has the other worldy speed and that usually trumped everything Webb tried.
Roczen typically qualifies netter than Webb so i see Webb lining up on the inside of Kenny more often. If anything just to mess with him.
2
1
Bromley686
Profile picture for user Bromley686
Posts
146
Joined
2/8/2017
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
Bromley686 3/7/2021 5:39pm
3/7/2021 5:39pm
JB 19 wrote:
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have...
The amazing thing with Webb is that he repeatedly over achieves. Seems to always put a race result together that is better than it should have been. Make a pass that nobody else could or digs deep and does what it takes to hold someone off or catch someone faster in front of him the last 5 laps.

It's the equivalent of manufacturing a run in baseball. Bunt to get to first base, steal 2nd, sacrifice fly to advance to 3rd, sacrifice fly to get the guy to home. That's Cooper's style, and you can criticize all you want, but it's going to win him a couple more championships.

hamncheeze wrote:
So you are saying a guy with a 250 National title, a 450 SX title and two 250 SX titles is an over-achiever? I get the...
So you are saying a guy with a 250 National title, a 450 SX title and two 250 SX titles is an over-achiever? I get the point you are making, but he's certainly not over-achieving.

Webb is a racer. He has a race craft and nuance to what it going on around him that seemingly most other guys don't. The way he's picked Roczen's pocket repeatedly, his brake slide in the first turn on Tomac at one of the SLC rounds last year, his ability to adapt and change his lines up as the race goes on....he's on another level than the rest of the guys on that front.

Hot take: When we leave Arlington he's got the red plate and a 5-8 point lead and we don't see him challenged by Roczen for the title.
I think you are right on your take. And although I would rather Kenny win, I hope that if he loses its by a good amount of points. I don’t feel like hearing his and vitals meltdown about the points he lost for not having situational awareness and choosing to jump on the red cross flag. Then him getting angry at another rider for not having situational awareness as they were about to be lapped 😳 (hello pot, meet kettle). That being said, if Kenny can keep it close and win at the end I’ll be happy for him to finally check that box.

Pit Row

See All »
Chris_Buehler
Profile picture for user Chris_Buehler
Posts
8502
Joined
7/21/2019
Location
PORTLAND, CT, USA
Chris_Buehler 3/7/2021 5:42pm
3/7/2021 5:42pm
seth505 wrote:
He was on Webbs rear fender later in the race and ended up getting dropped. That move at the start is no excuse.
Yammyam wrote:
How is it not? You don't think his race would have been better if he didn't get punted into the tough blocks and pushed back to...
How is it not? You don't think his race would have been better if he didn't get punted into the tough blocks and pushed back to 8th or something? Huh
Did you watch the race? When did Roczen get punted into the tough blocks?
9
1
Chris_Buehler
Profile picture for user Chris_Buehler
Posts
8502
Joined
7/21/2019
Location
PORTLAND, CT, USA
Chris_Buehler 3/7/2021 5:43pm
3/7/2021 5:43pm
M1000 wrote:
This remind me of 1991. Jean Micheal Bayle (Frenchman) vs Stanton, Bradshaw, Ward, Kiedrowski. JMB just shut up, and smoked the Yanks. Following year 1992 Bradshaw...
This remind me of 1991. Jean Micheal Bayle (Frenchman) vs Stanton, Bradshaw, Ward, Kiedrowski. JMB just shut up, and smoked the Yanks. Following year 1992 Bradshaw had JMB number, however Bradshaw caved to pressure and Stanton won in final Moto. 1993 McGrath arrives, dominates.
How is this yr like 1991?
1
Crossup
Profile picture for user Crossup
Posts
1655
Joined
12/13/2007
Location
Freetown, MA, USA
Crossup 3/7/2021 5:46pm
3/7/2021 5:46pm
Yammyam wrote:
Highly doubt he would have done the same thing. Maybe you need to watch it again. Cooper could have came out in the lead if he...
Highly doubt he would have done the same thing. Maybe you need to watch it again. Cooper could have came out in the lead if he just went up the inside of Kenny without taking him wide, but instead he pushed him right out and messed up his own race too by giving the lead to Tomac.
ShawdowGlen wrote:
You're not thinking "chess" moves. Cooper knew he could have taken the lead. Tomac is no threat to Webb in the title right now. He knows...
You're not thinking "chess" moves.

Cooper knew he could have taken the lead. Tomac is no threat to Webb in the title right now. He knows Daytona is Tomas house and he surely would have lost that lead anyway....noone was touching Eli last night (unless Eli blew it himself). He put Kenny back a bunch of positions so it kept him off Webbs fender longer.

Calculated move.

Like I said in the other thread. Webb is playing "Kasparov" level game here.



What a bunch of BS. That move took one second it wasn't calculated like the D-Day invasion. Webb just used his racecraft in the moment that's all. No chess games, no calculations, just racing.
4
3
PNWRider
Profile picture for user PNWRider
Posts
474
Joined
1/31/2021
Location
Stanwood, WA, USA
PNWRider 3/7/2021 5:58pm
3/7/2021 5:58pm
KR winning= all me
KR losing and/or underperforming= blame everything and everyone from the suspension guy to the gal at the rental car counter.
11
8
JohnMatrix
Profile picture for user JohnMatrix
Posts
331
Joined
1/31/2017
Location
Irvine, CA, USA
JohnMatrix 3/7/2021 6:18pm
3/7/2021 6:18pm
I have been on the Kenny cheerleading squad this season, but complaining about that pass wasn’t a good look for him. Just confirms how much Webb is living in his head openly. Webb has to be the most psychologically tough guy on the track today and that’s his edge in my opinion. There is no quit in him, and KR bitching about the pass, saying he can play games too is not going to put a sliver of a dent in Webb’s confidence over Ken.
4
2
tickleme20
Profile picture for user tickleme20
Posts
553
Joined
3/19/2017
Location
Stephens City, VA, USA
tickleme20 3/7/2021 6:23pm
3/7/2021 6:23pm Edited Date/Time 3/7/2021 6:43pm


HE CRACKED; I DIDN'T
18
2
TbonesPop 3/7/2021 6:34pm
3/7/2021 6:34pm
I was most impressed by Cooper's never say die charge on the last lap. Little bastard is a gamer. He's like a f'ing snapping turtle in that he never gives up. Ever catch a snappin turtle on a fishing rod and cut his head off, and he's still be holding on the the bait on the line not giving up. That's the tenacity of Cooper Webb.

Ken has more speed and honestly, if he figures out to keep the damn door shut by protecting the inside lines, Cooper will have a hard time pulling another Coop on him.

Watch out for Tomac, he ain't done.
1
1
wreckitrandy
Profile picture for user wreckitrandy
Posts
4221
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Granite Falls, NC, USA
wreckitrandy 3/7/2021 7:08pm
3/7/2021 7:08pm
Yammyam wrote:
Highly doubt he would have done the same thing. Maybe you need to watch it again. Cooper could have came out in the lead if he...
Highly doubt he would have done the same thing. Maybe you need to watch it again. Cooper could have came out in the lead if he just went up the inside of Kenny without taking him wide, but instead he pushed him right out and messed up his own race too by giving the lead to Tomac.
ShawdowGlen wrote:
You're not thinking "chess" moves. Cooper knew he could have taken the lead. Tomac is no threat to Webb in the title right now. He knows...
You're not thinking "chess" moves.

Cooper knew he could have taken the lead. Tomac is no threat to Webb in the title right now. He knows Daytona is Tomas house and he surely would have lost that lead anyway....noone was touching Eli last night (unless Eli blew it himself). He put Kenny back a bunch of positions so it kept him off Webbs fender longer.

Calculated move.

Like I said in the other thread. Webb is playing "Kasparov" level game here.



Crossup wrote:
What a bunch of BS. That move took one second it wasn't calculated like the D-Day invasion. Webb just used his racecraft in the moment that's...
What a bunch of BS. That move took one second it wasn't calculated like the D-Day invasion. Webb just used his racecraft in the moment that's all. No chess games, no calculations, just racing.
There is way more going on than just that.
2
cmotodad
Profile picture for user cmotodad
Posts
1009
Joined
12/18/2013
Location
Yorba Linda, CA, USA
cmotodad 3/7/2021 7:31pm
3/7/2021 7:31pm
I think that every pro knows how to take out anyone. My take on it was KR is going to start torpedoing CW every chance he gets. He has been respectful with the fear of having another injury. Sounds like he is ready to take off the gloves and do some brawling of his own. JMO
10
G-man
Profile picture for user G-man
Posts
9245
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Mesa, AZ, USA
G-man 3/7/2021 7:53pm
3/7/2021 7:53pm
cmotodad wrote:
I think that every pro knows how to take out anyone. My take on it was KR is going to start torpedoing CW every chance he...
I think that every pro knows how to take out anyone. My take on it was KR is going to start torpedoing CW every chance he gets. He has been respectful with the fear of having another injury. Sounds like he is ready to take off the gloves and do some brawling of his own. JMO
Yea it worked out pretty good for him last time. Unsure

https://youtu.be/yM5WCa7Gnhg
8
5
tjnel
Profile picture for user tjnel
Posts
42
Joined
12/14/2019
Location
Portland, OR, USA
tjnel 3/7/2021 8:18pm
3/7/2021 8:18pm
cmotodad wrote:
I think that every pro knows how to take out anyone. My take on it was KR is going to start torpedoing CW every chance he...
I think that every pro knows how to take out anyone. My take on it was KR is going to start torpedoing CW every chance he gets. He has been respectful with the fear of having another injury. Sounds like he is ready to take off the gloves and do some brawling of his own. JMO
G-man wrote:
Yea it worked out pretty good for him last time. Unsure

https://youtu.be/yM5WCa7Gnhg
I’ve read so many posts on here of people saying this was the last time Ken tried to “take out” Coop. But that’s nonsense, isn’t it? To me it’s pretty clear in this video that Ken wasn’t planning on touching Coop in the turn after the whoops, he was trying to cut down and rocket out of the turn past him without taking him high at all. He hit a rut that threw him totally off balance and caused him to start looping out into Webb, but it doesn’t look to me like Ken ever intended to touch Webb in that video. Nevertheless, it shows what happened when Ken rode emotionally in response to the actions of Coop, so your point may still be valid.
3
6
smashingpumpkins167 3/7/2021 9:25pm
3/7/2021 9:25pm
I wonder how many times Tomac has been bumped or blocked off the start. It didn't matter last year.
4
2

Post a reply to: Cooper fires back at Kenny