Ah, here's the cause of the confusion...

GuyB
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GuyB
Edited Date/Time 1/17/2012 3:51pm
After the race Tyla Rattray was brought in as the third-place guy for the 250 class (due to a penalty assessed to Tommy Searle), and then later Tommy Searle was reinstated and the results amended.

I'm not sure I get the ruling (I'm supposed to get an explanation tomorrow), but here's a video someone sent me showing the infraction.



The color of the flags changed after Hangtown, but I think they also need to work on how the flags are displayed.
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 6/15/2009 1:58pm
6/15/2009 1:58pm
that guy should be standing in the middle of the track it seems, waving that fuggen flag like a french guy waving a white flag during wartime!
breck
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breck 6/15/2009 2:01pm
6/15/2009 2:01pm
Ponca city flagging almost... Same thing they do there... Agreed the flag should be waved...

Is that Nerd standing on the landing?
GuyB
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GuyB 6/15/2009 2:03pm
6/15/2009 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 2:07pm
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it.

I've seen different versions, but the SCCA does a good job with flagging and communications. www.texasscca.org/novice.pdf
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 6/15/2009 2:10pm
6/15/2009 2:10pm
Where is the downed rider?

I think they've been a little too trigger happy with the new "Wheels on the ground" flag. I realize that for the most part it's better to be safe than sorry, but a lot of riders have been penalized so far when they didn't put anyone in any sort of danger.

The Shop

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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 6/15/2009 2:11pm
6/15/2009 2:11pm
Wait, I think I see him.

Off the track.
ayearinmx
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ayearinmx 6/15/2009 2:14pm
6/15/2009 2:14pm
GuyB's standing on the left of the landing, i'm on the right.... and that video just confirms that the flag was at a very bad angle for tommy to see it, which is what i thought at the time

oh, and steve.... nice ambiguous thread title you got going on here Wink
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 6/15/2009 2:15pm
6/15/2009 2:15pm
The commitment could well have been made by the time he saw it. It may have been better with the short run up to have been waving the flag going into the turn preceeding the jump. The flagging situation is always a tough call.
squid48
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squid48 6/15/2009 2:23pm
6/15/2009 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 2:24pm
He just thought they were showing his nations flag.
jbomx363
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jbomx363 6/15/2009 2:25pm
6/15/2009 2:25pm
Flags out.. tough tootie. Penalize is the only choice. Don't start waffling now.
fcr
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fcr 6/15/2009 2:28pm
6/15/2009 2:28pm
I think he thought "Diver Down".
ChrisB
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ChrisB 6/15/2009 2:30pm
6/15/2009 2:30pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it. I've seen different versions, but the...
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it.

I've seen different versions, but the SCCA does a good job with flagging and communications. www.texasscca.org/novice.pdf
If the dude is just going to hold it out, maybe use 2 sticks?

Just an idea
mxrose3
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mxrose3 6/15/2009 2:31pm
6/15/2009 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 2:31pm
Is it time for flashing yellow caution lights at every double jump yet? Seems to me it would save manpower, and any questions.
Void Main
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Void Main 6/15/2009 2:33pm
6/15/2009 2:33pm
fcr wrote:
I think he thought "Diver Down".
And then instantly got "Happy Trails" stuck in his head and couldn't stop singing it to himself for the rest of the race. I would be distracted too.
ChrisB
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ChrisB 6/15/2009 2:40pm
6/15/2009 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 2:51pm
Void Main wrote:
And then instantly got "Happy Trails" stuck in his head and couldn't stop singing it to himself for the rest of the race. I would be...
And then instantly got "Happy Trails" stuck in his head and couldn't stop singing it to himself for the rest of the race. I would be distracted too.
you bastard... Silly

edit: bum ba dee da, bum ba dee da...
ridge
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ridge 6/15/2009 2:46pm
6/15/2009 2:46pm
wreckitrandy wrote:
The commitment could well have been made by the time he saw it. It may have been better with the short run up to have been...
The commitment could well have been made by the time he saw it. It may have been better with the short run up to have been waving the flag going into the turn preceeding the jump. The flagging situation is always a tough call.
Yup. There's too much going on to have the flag on the lip of a jump.

Waving the flag in the turn before gives a second or two for it to register in the rider's head.

jbomx...you're being sarcastic...right? Smile
MXbiGwHiP
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MXbiGwHiP 6/15/2009 2:55pm
6/15/2009 2:55pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2009 4:03pm
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice and the parade lap before the moto's. The riders know where they are located on the track. AMA strikes again messing with the out come of a race. Way to go! I wonder which event sells more tickets, Barnum and Bailey Circus or the Outdoor Nationals. Either way you end up seeing clowns!
jamma10
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jamma10 6/15/2009 3:20pm
6/15/2009 3:20pm
MXbiGwHiP wrote:
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice...
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice and the parade lap before the moto's. The riders know where they are located on the track. AMA strikes again messing with the out come of a race. Way to go! I wonder which event sells more tickets, Barnum and Bailey Circus or the Outdoor Nationals. Either way you end up seeing clowns!
The 4th rider pretty much did exactly the same as Searle.

If they're going to use these flags why not make them fluorescent so riders can actually see them properly?
DownSouth
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DownSouth 6/15/2009 3:24pm
6/15/2009 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
Was there talk of penalizing Barcia? He jumped and cased the second jump. How wide is the interpretataion of "wheels on the ground"?

I can see this issue coming up several more times this season.

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ridge
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ridge 6/15/2009 3:28pm
6/15/2009 3:28pm
MXbiGwHiP wrote:
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice...
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice and the parade lap before the moto's. The riders know where they are located on the track. AMA strikes again messing with the out come of a race. Way to go! I wonder which event sells more tickets, Barnum and Bailey Circus or the Outdoor Nationals. Either way you end up seeing clowns!
Are you homeschooled?
slowvet
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slowvet 6/15/2009 3:36pm
6/15/2009 3:36pm
MXbiGwHiP wrote:
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice...
Why did every rider make an attempt to not double the obstacle; but Searle. That flag is diplayed like that in the first lap of practice and the parade lap before the moto's. The riders know where they are located on the track. AMA strikes again messing with the out come of a race. Way to go! I wonder which event sells more tickets, Barnum and Bailey Circus or the Outdoor Nationals. Either way you end up seeing clowns!
ridge wrote:
Are you homeschooled?
Thanks for the chuckle, needed it.
aminkman
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aminkman 6/15/2009 3:38pm
6/15/2009 3:38pm
He's holding it parallel to the ground when Searles comes thru. No way he could see what flag was out.
jib-tmb
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jib-tmb 6/15/2009 3:45pm
6/15/2009 3:45pm
I guess a flagger on each side of the jump isn't practical but it would help the downed rider if the flagger was directly in front of him. I was watching that from the podium area and I thought the flagger could have run to the other side which in my opinion would direct riders to the safe side of the track.
Crossup
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Crossup 6/15/2009 3:55pm
6/15/2009 3:55pm
Flagger or not...Not sure why they didn't just make the flag a big red cross in the middle of a white field. I think a red cross is a pretty universal symbol.
prillernut
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prillernut 6/15/2009 4:01pm
6/15/2009 4:01pm
GuyB wrote:
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it. I've seen different versions, but the...
I'm not sure about waving it, as much as displaying it at an angle where they can actually see it.

I've seen different versions, but the SCCA does a good job with flagging and communications. www.texasscca.org/novice.pdf
it seems the SCCA has their sh*t together - that flagger guidlines doc is extremely well-written and has good stuff in it -
jbomx363
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jbomx363 6/15/2009 4:06pm
6/15/2009 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
ridge wrote:
Yup. There's too much going on to have the flag on the lip of a jump. Waving the flag in the turn before gives a second...
Yup. There's too much going on to have the flag on the lip of a jump.

Waving the flag in the turn before gives a second or two for it to register in the rider's head.

jbomx...you're being sarcastic...right? Smile
Nope.. not at all...


As was mentioned numerous times in the Grant instance, you can't leave the excuse of "I didn't see it" or "I was confused" etc. etc.


As DC said before (paraphrasing here), the flag was out, that's it, end of discussion.
chip600
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chip600 6/15/2009 4:06pm
6/15/2009 4:06pm
Void Main wrote:
And then instantly got "Happy Trails" stuck in his head and couldn't stop singing it to himself for the rest of the race. I would be...
And then instantly got "Happy Trails" stuck in his head and couldn't stop singing it to himself for the rest of the race. I would be distracted too.
Grinning
noob
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noob 6/15/2009 4:07pm
6/15/2009 4:07pm
Crossup wrote:
Flagger or not...Not sure why they didn't just make the flag a big red cross in the middle of a white field. I think a red...
Flagger or not...Not sure why they didn't just make the flag a big red cross in the middle of a white field. I think a red cross is a pretty universal symbol.
Red cross means "MEDICS ARE NEEDED"
englishman
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englishman 6/15/2009 4:24pm
6/15/2009 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:26am
BobbyM wrote:
that guy should be standing in the middle of the track it seems, waving that fuggen flag like a french guy waving a white flag during...
that guy should be standing in the middle of the track it seems, waving that fuggen flag like a french guy waving a white flag during wartime!
LaughingW00tWinkWink


They need a guy with bigger balls that dude seemed a bit too timid for that job.
elsinore
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elsinore 6/15/2009 4:40pm
6/15/2009 4:40pm
Double standard here. They didn't reinstate Josh Grants's win at Hangtown, but it's ok for Searle?
Void Main
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Void Main 6/15/2009 4:40pm
6/15/2009 4:40pm
I saw the wheels come off the ground on every one of those bikes (except for possibly one). Does it mean "wheels on ground" or "don't jump"?

Post a reply to: Ah, here's the cause of the confusion...