The Electric Dirt-Bike Movement ? Still Going Strong Or Blown It’s Fuse.

Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 12/10/2020 2:20pm
12/10/2020 2:20pm
Try buying almost any power tool these days with a cord.

There is no reason someone couldn't rig up quick change batteries on a current chassis right now. The development curve on almost any changes are typically at least 3 years to production.
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numbers
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numbers 12/10/2020 2:26pm
12/10/2020 2:26pm
Their sexy and bad ass. I can't wait to cruise down the nature trail next to all the mountain bike guys. Plus my neighbors can't complain about noise.
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kage173
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kage173 12/10/2020 2:39pm
12/10/2020 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2020 2:45pm
brocster wrote:
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a...
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a problem but not for most. I don’t get all this we can have tracks near cities. Most cities have no land available and those that do its unaffordable for a track owner. Most tracks claim they barely make it now being way in the sticks, what makes us believe that electric bikes will change track overhead for the better?
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome.
2. Almost every kid on my street has an electric motorcycle or scooter and they all come over and ask about my big bikes. Never had that 10 years ago. You get more people riding and the economics of a track will change.
3. Municipalities buy large swaths of land and build baseball fields. soccer fields and whatever that are free of charge to use. In Pflugerville,TX they built a BMX track on a city park with state funding. No reason that couldn't happen for MX.

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kage173
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kage173 12/10/2020 2:44pm
12/10/2020 2:44pm
mxracerjohn250 wrote:
The market is not there for them, nor is long range battery use. A majority of the motocross community, the motor, gas, noise, smell is all...
The market is not there for them, nor is long range battery use. A majority of the motocross community, the motor, gas, noise, smell is all part of the fascination of motorsports. Who wants zero noise motorsports? Not me.

The other major hurdle? Your going to have 400 loud ass, gas powered generators at every race to charge these battery powered bikes. Does anyone for a second think these tracks in the middle of no where have the power supply readily available or the revenue necessary to put in 400 110 outlets? What about a regional of national race like Lorettas , the mini Os or the Daytona Amateur SX?

We are a long long ways away from battery powered bikes taking over motocross.

One other question. Doesn't battery powered bicycles defeat the whole purpose of mountain biking? I thought bicycles were about pedal power? Get yourself in shape, etc?
Go to your closest KTM dealership and ask them how many SX-E's they've sold in 2020. I only saw one on the showroom floor this year. I went in 2 weeks later and it was gone. Haven't seen another one all year. As far as I can tell they can't get enough of them.

There is definitely a market for electric.
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chadder44
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chadder44 12/10/2020 2:45pm
12/10/2020 2:45pm
I bought a sur ron over the summer and it's the best purchase I've made in 20 years. I'm 37 and haven't ridden moto since I was 18. I miss it very much but it's just not feasible for me right now. I bought my youngest daughter a Stacyc this year and my son will be getting one soon. I started getting jealous and found the sur ron. It's amazing to not need a truck or trailer, or to drive to someone else's practice track. I built a 20 second lap time track at home with one jump and 4 berms, and it will be a long time before I get bored.
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Graybeard 12/10/2020 2:54pm
12/10/2020 2:54pm
I love two-strokes, I love my CRF450, and I would love to have that Honda e-bike! Please? Pretty please?
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MotofactioN
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MotofactioN 12/10/2020 3:23pm
12/10/2020 3:23pm
Too expensive right now. In the future when they're cheaper, and last longer, ect. there will be more of a market for them.
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500 Mike
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500 Mike 12/10/2020 3:57pm
12/10/2020 3:57pm
kb228 wrote:
Generators wont be required for long. Look at what ford is doing with the new f150. Its got a huge battery thats charged by the engine...
Generators wont be required for long. Look at what ford is doing with the new f150. Its got a huge battery thats charged by the engine and you can run power tools off an outlet in the bed. This is going to be standard soon and the power available will be much higher.

You will be able to charge your alta off your pickup within 10 years.
In 10 years all vehicles will be electric (some say) so you’ll still need a generator to charge your bike and your truck!! Cool
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Project 2501 12/10/2020 4:03pm
12/10/2020 4:03pm
the last 12 months have lead to some significant breakthroughs in battery technology. But it takes time to go from prototype to mass production. With the batteries being less complex, faster to charge and with more energy density per kg, the bikes will improve.

I read above on multiple motos being a requirement, I think that would be ace but initially if you can get 35+2 at fast vet pace with no loss of power and then be able to recharge in 30 minutes, you will satisfy a lot of the rider market. That same bike needs to do 40-55 mi of singletrack/off road as well. Of course 80-100 mi would be better and 10-30 mi won't really satisfy the market.

cell recycling is also making large leaps which will help curtail much of the impact of mining the materials. and solid state cells will really push things forward.

nickm
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nickm 12/10/2020 6:30pm
12/10/2020 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2020 6:33pm
Glass is half empty:

-BRP bought Alta and hasn't done a thing with it
-Tracks can't afford to put in outlets for recharging, and who wants 500 generators running
- nobody wants a no noise dirt bike


Glass is half full:

- BRP is investing heavy in the Alta tech they bought and bringing to market an electric SeaDoo which will open up the "no noise/no motor" lakes that are everywhere. Soon they will open up a huge market for themselves and put smiles on faces of those that haven't been able to ride on the water before.
- Tracks have a new revenue source by selling electrical power, same as campsites have been doing for 60 years (campsites are also in the middle of nowhere yet they have several hundred 50 amp 220V outlets)
- No noise dirt bike would let me ride in behind my house, 1/2 hour out of the city, and my neighbours won't be annoyed.

Be glass is half full. All the cool kids are.
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Dropbear
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Dropbear 12/10/2020 8:48pm
12/10/2020 8:48pm
Project 2501 wrote:
the last 12 months have lead to some significant breakthroughs in battery technology. But it takes time to go from prototype to mass production. With the...
the last 12 months have lead to some significant breakthroughs in battery technology. But it takes time to go from prototype to mass production. With the batteries being less complex, faster to charge and with more energy density per kg, the bikes will improve.

I read above on multiple motos being a requirement, I think that would be ace but initially if you can get 35+2 at fast vet pace with no loss of power and then be able to recharge in 30 minutes, you will satisfy a lot of the rider market. That same bike needs to do 40-55 mi of singletrack/off road as well. Of course 80-100 mi would be better and 10-30 mi won't really satisfy the market.

cell recycling is also making large leaps which will help curtail much of the impact of mining the materials. and solid state cells will really push things forward.

I noticed at a practice day a few weeks ago, the number of riders that do more than 7 or 8 laps at a time is quite minimal. Most do less.
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brocster
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brocster 12/10/2020 9:14pm
12/10/2020 9:14pm
brocster wrote:
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a...
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a problem but not for most. I don’t get all this we can have tracks near cities. Most cities have no land available and those that do its unaffordable for a track owner. Most tracks claim they barely make it now being way in the sticks, what makes us believe that electric bikes will change track overhead for the better?
kage173 wrote:
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome. 2. Almost every...
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome.
2. Almost every kid on my street has an electric motorcycle or scooter and they all come over and ask about my big bikes. Never had that 10 years ago. You get more people riding and the economics of a track will change.
3. Municipalities buy large swaths of land and build baseball fields. soccer fields and whatever that are free of charge to use. In Pflugerville,TX they built a BMX track on a city park with state funding. No reason that couldn't happen for MX.

1. bmx tracks require way less land

2. I know many kids that had bmx bikes, mini bikes, scooters, ebikes etc in the neighborhood. Doesn’t mean parents are going to drop $3k to $10k on an emx and haul it to the track

3. Municipalities build those things based on demographics and economic studies. They are not going to build a mx track for 20 kids. I tried getting a concrete skatepark built in New Orleans in the early 2000’s. Whilst I owned an indoor park there that would be packed on the weekends. Demographics didn’t work for the area. Stick and ball sports rule with soccer pulling rank on the others.

I have also been to Pflugerville skatepark and had a lot of fun. Nice facility.
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mattyhamz2 12/11/2020 1:17pm
12/11/2020 1:17pm
brocster wrote:
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a...
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a problem but not for most. I don’t get all this we can have tracks near cities. Most cities have no land available and those that do its unaffordable for a track owner. Most tracks claim they barely make it now being way in the sticks, what makes us believe that electric bikes will change track overhead for the better?
kage173 wrote:
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome. 2. Almost every...
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome.
2. Almost every kid on my street has an electric motorcycle or scooter and they all come over and ask about my big bikes. Never had that 10 years ago. You get more people riding and the economics of a track will change.
3. Municipalities buy large swaths of land and build baseball fields. soccer fields and whatever that are free of charge to use. In Pflugerville,TX they built a BMX track on a city park with state funding. No reason that couldn't happen for MX.

We will never have tracks in or close to cities. Too many will bitch about dust. Unless we start riding concrete tracks, we need to let go of the idea of having motocross tracks in or near cities. It will never happen.
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xrmark
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xrmark 12/11/2020 1:25pm
12/11/2020 1:25pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
We will never have tracks in or close to cities. Too many will bitch about dust. Unless we start riding concrete tracks, we need to let...
We will never have tracks in or close to cities. Too many will bitch about dust. Unless we start riding concrete tracks, we need to let go of the idea of having motocross tracks in or near cities. It will never happen.

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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 12/11/2020 1:53pm
12/11/2020 1:53pm
xrmark wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464881/s1200_A6B4044C_9559_4733_A3B6_234E1AC58436.jpg[/img]

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rongi#401
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rongi#401 12/11/2020 2:09pm
12/11/2020 2:09pm
I think they’re (the manufactures) scared of how long they last, if I have a bike that lasts 1000 hours allegedly with minimal maintenance, I’d only buy one bike maybe every five years or even more
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Dropbear
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Dropbear 12/11/2020 2:48pm
12/11/2020 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2020 2:51pm
xrmark wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464881/s1200_A6B4044C_9559_4733_A3B6_234E1AC58436.jpg[/img]

-MAVERICK- wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464884/s1200_Screen_Shot_2019_03_26_at_8.41.48_PM_1080x637.jpg[/img]
At the least in industrial areas. We have a pretty good track close to Adelaide (1.3 million + pop) about 15 to 20 min from CBD even OK for ICE engines.
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xrmark
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xrmark 12/11/2020 2:59pm
12/11/2020 2:59pm
Elsinore is literally in the middle of the city of lake Elsinore. Right in between neighborhoods and a business park.
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Crossup
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Crossup 12/11/2020 3:02pm
12/11/2020 3:02pm
Rup, maybe they haven't caught on yet... because well, we aren't all ready to handle a giant cordless drill.



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mattyhamz2 12/11/2020 3:35pm
12/11/2020 3:35pm
xrmark wrote:
Elsinore is literally in the middle of the city of lake Elsinore. Right in between neighborhoods and a business park.
Should have been more specific. Cities like LA, Baltimore, Seattle, etc that I’ve seen mentioned in other threads. the big cities will never do it here in the US.
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Dropbear
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Dropbear 12/11/2020 3:41pm
12/11/2020 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2020 3:41pm
One thing I remember was landing in Newark and getting a bus to NYC in 1990, I noticed an MX track from the freeway. Blew me out a bit as a kid from a relatively small town in Oz. Does anyone know if it’s still there?
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 12/11/2020 3:47pm
12/11/2020 3:47pm
xrmark wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464881/s1200_A6B4044C_9559_4733_A3B6_234E1AC58436.jpg[/img]

-MAVERICK- wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464884/s1200_Screen_Shot_2019_03_26_at_8.41.48_PM_1080x637.jpg[/img]
Does Blackfoot Trail have anything to do with the Blackfoot racing team up there, or just coincidence?
1
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 12/11/2020 4:39pm
12/11/2020 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2020 4:46pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Does Blackfoot Trail have anything to do with the Blackfoot racing team up there, or just coincidence?
I'm not from Alberta, but as far as I know the name was chosen based on the history of the Blackfoot Confederacy who were settled in that region in the late 1800's.

Blackfoot Racing operated out of the Blackfoot Motorsports dealership which is located next to the track.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 12/13/2020 9:58am
12/13/2020 9:58am
I have a 2017 Alta Redshift MX and it's, hands down, been the best bike I have every owned. If one of the big companies can put out a bike as good as the Alta and be allowed to race it I think it'll take off. I've had zero issues with my Alta, in fact, it's also been the most dependable bike I've owned, and as others have mentioned, there's basically zero maintenance. I have a big ass jump in my side yard I enjoy playing around on, completely surrounded by neighbors and I've had zero complaints. I can't really think of a single downside to a propulsion source that allows you to ride more places. Battery tech is only going to get better and I can only assume that's what the big manufacturers are waiting on. I will never part with my Alta, when the times comes that it is obsolete I will shine it all up and proudly display it at my tattoo shop as the last real piece of American motocross machinery.

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dcg141
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dcg141 12/13/2020 10:20am
12/13/2020 10:20am Edited Date/Time 12/13/2020 10:25am
I think at some point we will see a hybrid between a current full size dirt bike and a downhill MTB. Much lighter and smaller than a traditional motorcycle and much heavier and larger that a MTB. Sur-Ron and Electric Motion are kind of headed in that direction already but they are trying to hit a price point. I think someone is going to make a premium version of that type of bike. Probably needs to be somewhere in the 100 lb range for longer run times. Given that KTM and Yamaha own E bicycle companies now its most likely to come from them.
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Rupert X
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Rupert X 12/13/2020 10:54am
12/13/2020 10:54am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
I have a 2017 Alta Redshift MX and it's, hands down, been the best bike I have every owned. If one of the big companies can...
I have a 2017 Alta Redshift MX and it's, hands down, been the best bike I have every owned. If one of the big companies can put out a bike as good as the Alta and be allowed to race it I think it'll take off. I've had zero issues with my Alta, in fact, it's also been the most dependable bike I've owned, and as others have mentioned, there's basically zero maintenance. I have a big ass jump in my side yard I enjoy playing around on, completely surrounded by neighbors and I've had zero complaints. I can't really think of a single downside to a propulsion source that allows you to ride more places. Battery tech is only going to get better and I can only assume that's what the big manufacturers are waiting on. I will never part with my Alta, when the times comes that it is obsolete I will shine it all up and proudly display it at my tattoo shop as the last real piece of American motocross machinery.

Dude. That is indeed a BIG ass jump. Props. Alta power !
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numbers
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numbers 12/13/2020 11:19am
12/13/2020 11:19am
brocster wrote:
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a...
Tracks are out in the boonies because that is where land is cheap enough to sustain a mx track as a business. Yes, noise is a problem but not for most. I don’t get all this we can have tracks near cities. Most cities have no land available and those that do its unaffordable for a track owner. Most tracks claim they barely make it now being way in the sticks, what makes us believe that electric bikes will change track overhead for the better?
kage173 wrote:
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome. 2. Almost every...
1. Every BMX track I've ever been to was inside the city limits. Albuquerque, NM has one downtown. Land value can be overcome.
2. Almost every kid on my street has an electric motorcycle or scooter and they all come over and ask about my big bikes. Never had that 10 years ago. You get more people riding and the economics of a track will change.
3. Municipalities buy large swaths of land and build baseball fields. soccer fields and whatever that are free of charge to use. In Pflugerville,TX they built a BMX track on a city park with state funding. No reason that couldn't happen for MX.

mattyhamz2 wrote:
We will never have tracks in or close to cities. Too many will bitch about dust. Unless we start riding concrete tracks, we need to let...
We will never have tracks in or close to cities. Too many will bitch about dust. Unless we start riding concrete tracks, we need to let go of the idea of having motocross tracks in or near cities. It will never happen.
There's been some indoor warehouse tracks I've ridden that were good.
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M1000
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M1000 12/13/2020 1:52pm
12/13/2020 1:52pm
xrmark wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/464881/s1200_A6B4044C_9559_4733_A3B6_234E1AC58436.jpg[/img]

Always been amazed at Calgary, Alberta having Motocross park right middle of city. I know it’s industrial part of city, you only 5-10 minutes from downtown calgary where all major Canadian Oil Gas main offices located. The fees are cheap, and few different courses on that location. Plus Blackfoot Motorsport is at Northern perimeter of the track. Congrats Calgary Alberta.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 12/13/2020 4:16pm
12/13/2020 4:16pm
I’m mostly looking forward to the ease of ownership. I won’t miss air filters and oil changes. I’ll miss the noise and the smell of race gas.

Sooner or later batteries will just produce better power and be lighter than ICE. And our trucks will be able to charge the bikes.
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numbers
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numbers 12/13/2020 5:17pm
12/13/2020 5:17pm
sandtrack315 wrote:
I’m mostly looking forward to the ease of ownership. I won’t miss air filters and oil changes. I’ll miss the noise and the smell of race...
I’m mostly looking forward to the ease of ownership. I won’t miss air filters and oil changes. I’ll miss the noise and the smell of race gas.

Sooner or later batteries will just produce better power and be lighter than ICE. And our trucks will be able to charge the bikes.
I'm 100% with you.
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