YZF250 is an unfair advantage compared to the rest

motokiwi
How many more HP do you think a STAR YZF250 makes than a GEICO CRF250? 5?
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toomanykaws
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toomanykaws 9/19/2020 4:56pm
9/19/2020 4:56pm
4-5 hp easy. But the torque. Doesn’t matter the Star rider if they got a clear shot and crack the throttle and hook. They pull on whatever is next to them.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/19/2020 5:03pm
9/19/2020 5:03pm
Ban 5 valves 😃
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Ghostrider145 9/19/2020 5:39pm
9/19/2020 5:39pm
Peak HP is probably close Between most of the big Teams but like stated above it’s the Torque difference that probably gives them the edge.

Ghost
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d394
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d394 9/19/2020 5:42pm
9/19/2020 5:42pm
motokiwi wrote:
How many more HP do you think a STAR YZF250 makes than a GEICO CRF250? 5?
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
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charge
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charge 9/19/2020 5:44pm
9/19/2020 5:44pm
The track was prepped so the advantage wasn’t there that much. JMart turned a faster lap time then the 450s and was good in and out of the tight turns
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crusty_xx 9/19/2020 5:48pm
9/19/2020 5:48pm
JMarts body weight is an unfair advantage as well Whistling
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 9/19/2020 5:58pm
9/19/2020 5:58pm
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win.

My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules similar to Limited at Lorettas. More riders could compete and would push more to the 450 class.
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Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 9/19/2020 5:59pm
9/19/2020 5:59pm
toomanykaws wrote:
4-5 hp easy. But the torque. Doesn’t matter the Star rider if they got a clear shot and crack the throttle and hook. They pull on...
4-5 hp easy. But the torque. Doesn’t matter the Star rider if they got a clear shot and crack the throttle and hook. They pull on whatever is next to them.
4-5 easy? Surely you jest. With that much more it wouldn't even be a race. But as far as the rest of your post, you're spot on.
vitalriderCrf 9/19/2020 6:28pm
9/19/2020 6:28pm
8tensolutions wrote:
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win. My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules...
It's not unfair. Unless they are cheating, may the best Team win.

My opinion is the 250 class should change to a "spec" class with rules similar to Limited at Lorettas. More riders could compete and would push more to the 450 class.
I really like this idea. What exactly could teams like Geico and Star not do that would make it more fair for privateers though? There’s really good product available for privateers to buy, I guess it just depends on your budget. It’s not like Star is running special fuel that privateers can’t buy or something (not making an inside joke here LOL). There’s already a price limit on 250 suspension right? Maybe they could have a price limit on engines possibly? I’m just spit balling..
It’s probably the long hours of dyno room, dirt dyno and R&D that Privateers don’t have access to that really makes the difference.
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Donkey Kong 9/19/2020 6:30pm
9/19/2020 6:30pm
What are the suspected power numbers from a factory 250f. Has there ever been a leaked dyno chart or a legitamate source on the suspected power output?
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waldpw18
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waldpw18 9/19/2020 6:47pm
9/19/2020 6:47pm
Why can’t people realize the Yamaha 250 is so much better than all the other bikes
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mister2dt
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mister2dt 9/19/2020 6:51pm
9/19/2020 6:51pm
waldpw18 wrote:
Why can’t people realize the Yamaha 250 is so much better than all the other bikes
Because your vital overlords swear its 6 feet wide and not orange.
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ryanxmx31
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ryanxmx31 9/19/2020 6:59pm
9/19/2020 6:59pm
They said the yamaha 250f was around 56 for there outdoor bike and that was a few years ago...
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CPR
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CPR 9/19/2020 7:04pm
9/19/2020 7:04pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Ban 5 valves 😃
Bigoldbeef wrote:
They’re 4 now
Brad460 wrote:
Ban 4 valves Wink
Ban valves!

....unless it’s a power valve of course.....
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Sr_Vet_Rider 9/19/2020 7:15pm
9/19/2020 7:15pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2020 8:05pm
d394 wrote:
certain green bikes in the 250 class are known to be knocking on the door of ... 60HP
Huh ?

50HP is about all you’re going to get from any of the 250’s, without losing all the bottom end/ torque. Mitch’s bikes were blowing up trying to keep up with Geico and Star bikes. I doubt he’s able to pull as much from the Kawi
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dirtworldmx 9/19/2020 7:21pm
9/19/2020 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2020 7:22pm
Star bikes have way more power than they need...and should definitely share some of their HP with the less successful teams...and also give some to all the riders that are too lazy to put together a decent program.
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Hcallz5
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Hcallz5 9/19/2020 7:24pm
9/19/2020 7:24pm
Down draft intake bro
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Nairb#70
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Nairb#70 9/19/2020 7:30pm
9/19/2020 7:30pm
The sad fact of the matter is that engine is in a relatively low state of tune, and can probably produce a lot more power. Reason why?, when is the last time you saw one DNF?
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DynoDan22
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DynoDan22 9/19/2020 8:05pm
9/19/2020 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2020 8:05pm
Horsepower wins advertisements; torque wins races. I'd wager a guess that the Star Yami's are close to a full lb-ft more than the rest. They eat going up hills and pull hard. Very stout motors. I'd guess they're around 55hp and 24-25 lb-ft torque on a dynojet.
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outerlimits
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outerlimits 9/19/2020 8:11pm
9/19/2020 8:11pm
waldpw18 wrote:
Why can’t people realize the Yamaha 250 is so much better than all the other bikes
mister2dt wrote:
Because your vital overlords swear its 6 feet wide and not orange.
And not built like a 110 lb super model.
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Sr_Vet_Rider 9/19/2020 8:13pm
9/19/2020 8:13pm
DynoDan22 wrote:
Horsepower wins advertisements; torque wins races. I'd wager a guess that the Star Yami's are close to a full lb-ft more than the rest. They eat...
Horsepower wins advertisements; torque wins races. I'd wager a guess that the Star Yami's are close to a full lb-ft more than the rest. They eat going up hills and pull hard. Very stout motors. I'd guess they're around 55hp and 24-25 lb-ft torque on a dynojet.
Dan,
That’s a lot of HP. Have you seen a reliable 250f push over 50, without sacrificing the torque ?

The 450’s are only around 62-65
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 9/19/2020 8:43pm
9/19/2020 8:43pm
Sounds pretty communist-y to me
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DynoDan22
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DynoDan22 9/19/2020 8:55pm
9/19/2020 8:55pm
450's can be a fair amount more than 65hp. Dynos differ from brand to brand, so numbers can vary. The Star Yamahas are well into the 50's for sure. Reliable? Yes, for the 3-3.5hr service intervals. You'd be surprised how little torque you need to crack 55hp at 14k rpm. I know a certain 450 that won Daytona that was flirting with 70hp.
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Broseph
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Broseph 9/19/2020 8:56pm
9/19/2020 8:56pm
DynoDan22 wrote:
Horsepower wins advertisements; torque wins races. I'd wager a guess that the Star Yami's are close to a full lb-ft more than the rest. They eat...
Horsepower wins advertisements; torque wins races. I'd wager a guess that the Star Yami's are close to a full lb-ft more than the rest. They eat going up hills and pull hard. Very stout motors. I'd guess they're around 55hp and 24-25 lb-ft torque on a dynojet.
But torque is nothing without rpm (my legs putting 100ftlb into the crank of a bicycle won’t win any races).

If only there was a measurement that combined torque and rpm. Then we’d be seeing the full picture.

Oh yeah, that’s horsepower.

I think what you mean to say is peak hp doesn’t win races, but a broad spread of usable hp does.

This is why dyno graphs are useful. Not for their peak numbers, but for their shape and area under the curve.
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DynoDan22
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DynoDan22 9/19/2020 8:59pm
9/19/2020 8:59pm
Broseph, my comment was meant to emphasize the importance of torque vs. purely chasing a high peak HP number.
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Boomslang 9/19/2020 9:30pm
9/19/2020 9:30pm
motokiwi wrote:
How many more HP do you think a STAR YZF250 makes than a GEICO CRF250? 5?
The bikes of the top teams are pretty close in performance and I'll give credit to the riders for making the difference. Star has a bunch of fast dudes. Forkner is absent, so we have not yet seen the PC bike taking the fight to JMartin and Dylan.
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karsmakers
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karsmakers 9/19/2020 9:53pm
9/19/2020 9:53pm
You would have to be blind to not see the Yamaha's power advantage. It seems like every two or three of them are out front at the start. Jmart is probably 30 pounds lighter than Dillon and still seemed to be at a disadvantage up the hills. There is a reason Yamaha keeps winning this class more often than not
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