Suzuki, Suzuki, Suzuki

nickm
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702
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CA
6/16/2020 6:47pm
I'd like to see Suzuki put out really competitive product, its too bad they don't put their money into developing their RM lineup. As far as who is biggest by market capitalization:

KHI = 295B Yen ($2.8B USD)
Yamaha = 594B Yen (5.5B USD)
Suzuki = 1.83T Yen ($17B USD)
Honda = 5.27T Yen ($54B USD)
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Phillip_Lamb
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2068
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Location
ORANGEVALE, CA US
6/16/2020 7:46pm
Looking for some actual, intelligent insight. I think it would be absolutely horrible for the sport to lose a bike brand and the number of Suzuki...
Looking for some actual, intelligent insight. I think it would be absolutely horrible for the sport to lose a bike brand and the number of Suzuki riders at the pro ranks is dismal. Interesting enough it seems as though in the amateur setting there is a pretty decent number of yellow machines. Is it simply rider results, or lack there of, that is leading to such a bad rep? Is it the bikes with the lack of e-start and oversprung stock suspension? Poor factory support? No big brand energy drink sponsorship? Looking back, Suzuki has a large list of riders finding lots of success on their bikes. What happened?
its a few things.

Suzuki Automotive side sucked out a huge portion from the motorsport side when they went bankrupt a few years ago

The Amateur and Contingency program used to be huge but decisions in the last 15 years gutted the program. from what ive heard funding from the program was diverted to pay for large contracts certain factory riders.

The 250 specifically is also relatively underpowered. even with standard mods such as pipe, piston, cams fuel, the bike only catches up to the stock power of the KTM

The 450 in my eyes, the biggest issue is the weight and unbalanced suspension. e-start for me is a non factor

what i believe to be reality, is that Suzuki Motors USA has little to no capital for testing and development leaving the showroom bikes a mess, they cant support many riders at the top level and therefore have little exposure to the public and every shootout blows the bikes out of the water.
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kkawboy14
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6/16/2020 8:13pm
The mx and sx budget for Suzuki is chicken scratch for a company their size.
SwingHard
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Sacramento, CA US
6/16/2020 8:14pm
wrc777 wrote:
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up...
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up.

Other than fixing the valving and spring rate on the 250 and the rear shock on the 450 is there anything they really need to do that will make the average rider faster on a Suzuki than they would be on a Honda/Kawi/YZ, etc? They could probably put electric start on the 450 right now (RMX450 had it) but it might add 8 lbs to the heaviest bike on the market. To add it and control weight is expensive and they might not feel the investment is worth it. Suzuki even had RMZ250s for sale in Australia with the GET wifi ECU on it. That is something they should have done in the US market yesterday and they already developed it.
Serious question,whats wrong with the shock on the 450?
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The Shop

wrc777
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Greenwood, IN US
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6/16/2020 8:53pm
wrc777 wrote:
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up...
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up.

Other than fixing the valving and spring rate on the 250 and the rear shock on the 450 is there anything they really need to do that will make the average rider faster on a Suzuki than they would be on a Honda/Kawi/YZ, etc? They could probably put electric start on the 450 right now (RMX450 had it) but it might add 8 lbs to the heaviest bike on the market. To add it and control weight is expensive and they might not feel the investment is worth it. Suzuki even had RMZ250s for sale in Australia with the GET wifi ECU on it. That is something they should have done in the US market yesterday and they already developed it.
SwingHard wrote:
Serious question,whats wrong with the shock on the 450?
People complain about it bucking on some bumps and feeling unstable in general. Supposedly the Kyb off the 250 fixes the 450 right up.
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6/16/2020 10:36pm
Falcon wrote:
Actually, off-road has absolutely exploded in the last 2-3 months. Kids' bikes especially. That's good news if the buyers keep riding, because they are almost all...
Actually, off-road has absolutely exploded in the last 2-3 months. Kids' bikes especially. That's good news if the buyers keep riding, because they are almost all "new" purchasers.
They got no where near 2008 levels tho , about the last time Suzuki put any real development $$s into their off road line
6/17/2020 1:26am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2020 3:08am
Falcon wrote:
Actually, off-road has absolutely exploded in the last 2-3 months. Kids' bikes especially. That's good news if the buyers keep riding, because they are almost all...
Actually, off-road has absolutely exploded in the last 2-3 months. Kids' bikes especially. That's good news if the buyers keep riding, because they are almost all "new" purchasers.
wrc777 wrote:
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up...
I am sure if this is a long term shift Suzuki will start spending money on development again, and you will see more tracks opening up.

Other than fixing the valving and spring rate on the 250 and the rear shock on the 450 is there anything they really need to do that will make the average rider faster on a Suzuki than they would be on a Honda/Kawi/YZ, etc? They could probably put electric start on the 450 right now (RMX450 had it) but it might add 8 lbs to the heaviest bike on the market. To add it and control weight is expensive and they might not feel the investment is worth it. Suzuki even had RMZ250s for sale in Australia with the GET wifi ECU on it. That is something they should have done in the US market yesterday and they already developed it.
Mossy wrote:
I mean how much faster can someone really be with a stock bike that comes with a couple extra horsepowers? And don’t give me the pro...
I mean how much faster can someone really be with a stock bike that comes with a couple extra horsepowers?

And don’t give me the pro bullshit because we all know pros are going to build the engine, and if you’re building the engine, then you can get the horsepower you need out of this engine, like you can the other ones.

So aside from suspension, what is there to change? Keep the Kickstarter to cut costs and offer a “different” bike; start a new marketing agenda, and I know this is very wishful, but make a 125 2 stroke, market it towards beginners, and boom, you’ve rebuilt the brand.
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Falcon
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Menifee, CA US
6/17/2020 8:42am
ktmdan wrote:
I love the random made up facts, Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling...
I love the random made up facts,
Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling dirt bikes since the birth of Jesus 😂
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I said that about marine engines making much more profit than Motocross bikes, and I bet I'm awfully close to being correct. Suzuki is on a tear in the marine world, and has been for the better part of the last decade. Their only concern in the marine world is figuring out how to manufacture enough engines. On the other hand MX bikes are like a stepping stone to Suzuki's other products. They clearly don't value the contribution of the MX market as much as they do the marine guys.
Maybe 40 years was an exaggeration. And the copper washers are probably sold in India, not Bolivia. Wink
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Markee
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Suffolk, VA US
6/17/2020 8:43am
Falcon wrote:
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where...
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where they feel it is best served, and why not? When you think about it, they make more money on their marine engines each year than they probably have on MX bikes in the last 40 years.

Because there is less support at the top, there are fewer pros pursuing careers on Suzukis. Simple economics. If you could ride for Smart Top and make more than you could on JGR, wouldn't you ride a Honda? (I'm not saying that's what is happening, but I would not be surprised to hear that Malcolm Stewart makes more than Broc Tickle.) For privateers, there are likely better platforms out there to earn money.

The state of the stock bike is another example of how SMC has prioritized other bikes over the MX models. They could certainly have built an electric start into the 2018s, but why? If it costs them an additional half million dollars but will only bring in $400,000, it isn't worth the expenditure.

I think it's possible that Suzuki will stop racing MX/SX, but I think it's just as possible that they will finally develop a world-beating machine and hire some top guns. All it takes is the right corporate structure, and they change those guys every 4 years or so.

kkawboy14
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6/17/2020 8:52am

Ten fun facts about Suzuki



Fact 1
Michio Suzuki founded the company of Suzuki in a small Japanese coastal village in the year 1920 and it was initially involved in the manufacture of looms.

Fact 2
The first project to build a small Suzuki car was in 1937, with the first motorbike and first series car coming in 1952 and 1955 respectively.

Fact 3
Suzuki’s first passenger car was manufactured in 1955 and was called the 360 cc Suzulight.




Fact 4
Suzuki manufactures sharp and modest automobiles and today produces more cars than other popular car brands like Mercedes and BMW.

Fact 5
With its roots in the looms business, Suzuki today employees more than 15, 000 people and people from 170 countries in the world have access to this trusted car brand.

Fact 6
Osamu Suzuki has been at the helm of the company for the past 30 years, that’s about 20 years after he actually joined. The company was founded by his wife’s grandfather.

Fact 7
The famed and inherently familiar Hayabusa is one of the world’s fastest two-wheelers and is known to ride at a maximum speed of 300 km/h or 186 mph.

Fact 8
With their business partnership beginning in 1981, General Motors remains Suzuki’s biggest shareholder with a 3% stake at the moment with the original share in the company being 20% before Suzuki bought it in 2006 from General Motors.

Fact 9
Suzuki came into the Indian automobile quite early into the scene in the 1980s and now Maruti Suzuki India Ltd unit is Suzuki’s biggest market outside Japan, selling cars to half the Indian nation.

Fact 10
Suzuki Motor Corp is a part of the coveted list of ten of the globe’s biggest car manufacturers
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1
mx1313
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Dubuque, IA US
6/17/2020 9:51am
Look, if Suzuki gave 2 squirts about motocross bikes, they'd build a better more updated bike. They choose not to at this point. People act like Suzuki can't afford to do this. Their brand doesn't put MX on the forefront of what they do as a company. They make more money on their generators than they do on MX bikes.
1
wildbill
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Christmas Valley, OR US
6/17/2020 10:24am
I bet the top-level generator mechanics drill out the washers.
3
wrc777
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Greenwood, IN US
Fantasy
6/17/2020 10:26am
Not the rmz 2021 yet, but here is the drz 50 2021 who surely feature the graphics the rmz line up will have...
https://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/lineup/dr-z50m1/
Did Suzuki ditch the 70 for a 50 this year or have I not been paying attention?
I have seen 2020 drz50s. If you check their site I think you can see when they switched. I think they have the only 50 with e start and a kick start.
1
6/17/2020 11:40am
They have 50 and 125 drz, no 70 I think.
RCMXracing
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N., TX US
6/17/2020 11:53am
Suzuki riders have it figured out. If you get beaten by one, “Hey I was on a Suzuki that is 3k less than your bike and I beat you, haha!”.

If you beat them they can say “Well, ya know, I was riding this Suzuki”.

Win, win! Genius! Kidding aside, at pretty much any level that bike is just fine. If they had E start I would buy one.
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6/17/2020 12:03pm
Not the rmz 2021 yet, but here is the drz 50 2021 who surely feature the graphics the rmz line up will have...
https://www1.suzuki.co.jp/motor/lineup/dr-z50m1/
Did Suzuki ditch the 70 for a 50 this year or have I not been paying attention?
They changed it to a 50 a couple years ago. Same bike as the 70 with a different top end.
skeef
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6/17/2020 1:55pm
ktmdan wrote:
I love the random made up facts, Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling...
I love the random made up facts,
Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling dirt bikes since the birth of Jesus 😂
Falcon wrote:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I said that about marine engines making much more profit than Motocross bikes, and I bet I'm awfully close to...
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I said that about marine engines making much more profit than Motocross bikes, and I bet I'm awfully close to being correct. Suzuki is on a tear in the marine world, and has been for the better part of the last decade. Their only concern in the marine world is figuring out how to manufacture enough engines. On the other hand MX bikes are like a stepping stone to Suzuki's other products. They clearly don't value the contribution of the MX market as much as they do the marine guys.
Maybe 40 years was an exaggeration. And the copper washers are probably sold in India, not Bolivia. Wink
I was going to make this point in my original response.. Yes, Suzuki makes more of a margin per unit in marine engines then they do Motorcycles. But they are not on a "tear" by any means in the marine world. They are vastly under powered and considerably heavier than their competitor's engines. Sound familiarWhistling Yamaha being one them, a much better motor. Mercury being top of the line landing almost all OEM accounts. If you have a small inflatable boat sure throw a little Suzuki on it. But when I have ridden in big boats with Suzuki motors, they smoke, shake, and rattle. The Outboard world is booming right now, and too no surprise, Suzuki is a decade behind in technology.
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1
Big E
Posts
459
Joined
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Location
Orange, CA US
6/17/2020 2:01pm
Falcon wrote:
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where...
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where they feel it is best served, and why not? When you think about it, they make more money on their marine engines each year than they probably have on MX bikes in the last 40 years.

Because there is less support at the top, there are fewer pros pursuing careers on Suzukis. Simple economics. If you could ride for Smart Top and make more than you could on JGR, wouldn't you ride a Honda? (I'm not saying that's what is happening, but I would not be surprised to hear that Malcolm Stewart makes more than Broc Tickle.) For privateers, there are likely better platforms out there to earn money.

The state of the stock bike is another example of how SMC has prioritized other bikes over the MX models. They could certainly have built an electric start into the 2018s, but why? If it costs them an additional half million dollars but will only bring in $400,000, it isn't worth the expenditure.

I think it's possible that Suzuki will stop racing MX/SX, but I think it's just as possible that they will finally develop a world-beating machine and hire some top guns. All it takes is the right corporate structure, and they change those guys every 4 years or so.
LumpDog841 wrote:
They've been spending a lot in MotoGP and having some decent success. Seems maybe the priority for corporate has shifted.
They are spending 1/3 of what other Moto GP teams are spending. I think its the talent on and around the bike...
skeef
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AZ US
Fantasy
6/17/2020 2:09pm
Falcon wrote:
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where...
Suzuki has not decided to continue investing heavily in motorcycle racing in the US (and elsewhere). It is their prerogative to spend their marketing dollars where they feel it is best served, and why not? When you think about it, they make more money on their marine engines each year than they probably have on MX bikes in the last 40 years.

Because there is less support at the top, there are fewer pros pursuing careers on Suzukis. Simple economics. If you could ride for Smart Top and make more than you could on JGR, wouldn't you ride a Honda? (I'm not saying that's what is happening, but I would not be surprised to hear that Malcolm Stewart makes more than Broc Tickle.) For privateers, there are likely better platforms out there to earn money.

The state of the stock bike is another example of how SMC has prioritized other bikes over the MX models. They could certainly have built an electric start into the 2018s, but why? If it costs them an additional half million dollars but will only bring in $400,000, it isn't worth the expenditure.

I think it's possible that Suzuki will stop racing MX/SX, but I think it's just as possible that they will finally develop a world-beating machine and hire some top guns. All it takes is the right corporate structure, and they change those guys every 4 years or so.
LumpDog841 wrote:
They've been spending a lot in MotoGP and having some decent success. Seems maybe the priority for corporate has shifted.
Big E wrote:
They are spending 1/3 of what other Moto GP teams are spending. I think its the talent on and around the bike...
Yeah or utilizing the budget well. That bike can rip around some tracks. KTM doesn't seem to be doing that well and we all know they have deep pockets.
Falcon
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12344
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Location
Menifee, CA US
6/17/2020 3:19pm
ktmdan wrote:
I love the random made up facts, Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling...
I love the random made up facts,
Suzuki has made more money selling copper washers in Bolivia in the last ten minutes than they’ve made selling dirt bikes since the birth of Jesus 😂
Falcon wrote:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I said that about marine engines making much more profit than Motocross bikes, and I bet I'm awfully close to...
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I said that about marine engines making much more profit than Motocross bikes, and I bet I'm awfully close to being correct. Suzuki is on a tear in the marine world, and has been for the better part of the last decade. Their only concern in the marine world is figuring out how to manufacture enough engines. On the other hand MX bikes are like a stepping stone to Suzuki's other products. They clearly don't value the contribution of the MX market as much as they do the marine guys.
Maybe 40 years was an exaggeration. And the copper washers are probably sold in India, not Bolivia. Wink
skeef wrote:
I was going to make this point in my original response.. Yes, Suzuki makes more of a margin per unit in marine engines then they do...
I was going to make this point in my original response.. Yes, Suzuki makes more of a margin per unit in marine engines then they do Motorcycles. But they are not on a "tear" by any means in the marine world. They are vastly under powered and considerably heavier than their competitor's engines. Sound familiarWhistling Yamaha being one them, a much better motor. Mercury being top of the line landing almost all OEM accounts. If you have a small inflatable boat sure throw a little Suzuki on it. But when I have ridden in big boats with Suzuki motors, they smoke, shake, and rattle. The Outboard world is booming right now, and too no surprise, Suzuki is a decade behind in technology.
Compared to their MX bikes, the marine engines are making far more profit and have been growing for a long time.

Suzuki marine recently moved into the 3rd-largest repower manufacturer by market share. (You are correct about Mercury and Yamaha being tough competitors - they are #1 and #2.)

Suzuki Marine in the US has been growing by double digits for 6 or 7 years now. For fiscal 2018, they exceeded 20% sales growth.



My point about them being "on a tear" was to illustrate how much more important the marine market is to them when compared to MX. Say what you may about the quality or relative power of the units, but Suzuki is clearly doing something right with marine engines. They are selling more than they can make, which is a problem the MX guys can't exactly complain about right now.

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nickm
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6/17/2020 6:17pm
Spend 5 minutes in south Florida and you'll see Suzuki outboards everywhere. Their new 350 is a very nice package.
Airick
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Hollywood, MD US
6/17/2020 6:22pm
OLDMOTO wrote:
Brands disappearing has happened many times in motocross. CZ, Maico, Husqvarna, Penton, Puch, DKW, Monarch, Sachs, ETC. Suzuki doesn't see a return on the cost of...
Brands disappearing has happened many times in motocross. CZ, Maico, Husqvarna, Penton, Puch, DKW, Monarch, Sachs, ETC. Suzuki doesn't see a return on the cost of SX and MX racing or an impact on overall number of gross sales. Times change and so do consumer demands. If people were lining up to buy RMZ models Suzuki would invest in racing and development. Off road and motocross models represent the majority portion of total sales to KTM. Comparatively they represent very little to Suzuki. Honda sells a considerable amount of off road related models. There is also cross over to ATV sales from the promotion of SX and MX racing. Look at road racing in the US. It died out and barely survives today. Honda spends absolutely zero dollars on road racing in the US as it evidently has little effect on thier total USA Sales. Kawasaki pulled out. Yamaha and Suzuki spend almost nothing nothing on American road racing. Racing doesn't drive automotive and motorcycle sales significantly any longer.
My 2013 Husqvarna has a Sachs shock.
usp4u
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Karns City, PA US
6/17/2020 7:26pm
nickm wrote:
Spend 5 minutes in south Florida and you'll see Suzuki outboards everywhere. Their new 350 is a very nice package.
And with that......Vitards will only see "Suzuki 350"

Hold onto your hats n glasses for the coming threads lol
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wwdiii
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League City, TX US
6/17/2020 7:44pm
Everybody with an 2018 or better RMZ 450 needs to dump them as soon as the can for pennies on the dollar and please call me so I can help out
2
sf702/410
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6/17/2020 9:52pm
I'm going to chicken-hawk this thread quick. Who has ridden a 2018+ rmz for more than 10 minutes? Tinkered with its suspension for your weight, riding and skill?
I'll give an unbiased and uncompensated opinion with no skin in the game other than a consumer. I have 2 2018 rmz 450's . One, I have about 80 hrs of track and desert riding on. Never any issues.
I bought both bikes, one brand new , the other in '19 with an hour or 2 on it. Collectively bought those bikes for $11,600 otd.
I watched all the shootouts, and saw the volume of Ktm's at tracks and racing on tv, and couldn't resist buying one a few weeks ago. I bought a 20.5 factory edition to see what this miracle/ cult bike provided, and dropped almost $11,000 to buy in. It blows my mind to say how similar the two bikes engines and ergos feel. The Suzuki actually felt more responsive bone stock than either map on the ktm. The weight? Lightest vs heaviest...I FEEL NO DIFFERENCE RIDING THEM. fit and finish? The f.e has fancy anodized cool parts. Other than that, the cables aren't routed as clean, connectors not secured as well, and some metals have a lesser finish imo. The Suzuki feels great at a quality level and given my terrible riding skills, height and obesity, it's held up like a tank.
Everyone hates the shock, "my God the shock, you need a link, you need to swap" ride the damn thing and see. I have no gripes at all, and ride linkless 80 hrs and 2 years later. It's predictable on jumps and balanced. Roger helped develop the rmz, Suzuki had him. I should have guessed the ktm would carry similarities.

Any way, a book later, and in a nutshell- I regret the money on the ktm. The Suzuki starts just fine with a kick or two. No battery life to worry about. I do have gripes with the ktm fork which I don't like the feel of.

Owned to date: 01 bandit 1200, 06gsxr750, 02 tl1000r, 13 hayabusa, 17 gsxr1000, 07 rmz450, 2 18 rmz 450s, 19 drz50 and never a mechanical failure or breakdown on any. Used to be a Honda guy, but I've converted. Suzuki for life. And btw the bmw1000rr mimics the 07 gsxr engine. The new 17+ gsxr1000 is insane and doing just well in the street scene as well.


But, hey, they're trash, so don't buy them. I need to make sure I can keep paying dirt for them in the future years
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nickm
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CA
6/18/2020 7:28pm
nickm wrote:
Spend 5 minutes in south Florida and you'll see Suzuki outboards everywhere. Their new 350 is a very nice package.
usp4u wrote:
And with that......Vitards will only see "Suzuki 350"

Hold onto your hats n glasses for the coming threads lol
funny you say that, the moment I hit submit I thought..here we go..... LOL
Bennett
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Papillion, NE US
6/18/2020 9:51pm
So far, all that I have gleaned from this thread, is that Mercury should develop either their own dirt bike, or engines for other dirt bike manufacturers.
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USA
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6/19/2020 5:13am
Bennett wrote:
So far, all that I have gleaned from this thread, is that Mercury should develop either their own dirt bike, or engines for other dirt bike...
So far, all that I have gleaned from this thread, is that Mercury should develop either their own dirt bike, or engines for other dirt bike manufacturers.
I can't wait to see some Frankensteined bikes Woohoo

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