If the remainder of the SX races are canceled, do you still award 250 & 450 champions?

Thisusernameisavailable 3/13/2020 2:06am
3/13/2020 2:06am
Racing to win should be every top riders goal....

You're right. And to win you have to have a strategy. The strategy was consistency over 17 rounds.

Tell a rider and team a series is 11 rounds and the strategy changes.
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gregyou
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gregyou 3/13/2020 2:45am
3/13/2020 2:45am
It’s just going to be non tomac fans saying no and tomac fans saying yes
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CPR
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CPR 3/13/2020 4:57am
3/13/2020 4:57am
Easy to say that from the stands Dodgy.
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Berm
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Berm 3/13/2020 5:45am
3/13/2020 5:45am
The rules aren't clear, but they do outline that if a Main event cannot be run, there will be no points awarded for the championship.

Rules regarding restarts:
7. In the case of a Final, if it is found impossible to restart then
this Final will be declared cancelled and not count for the
Championship

So I imagine they will award the championship to Eli. There are provisions for how to count 250 points (for rider advancement) when the series is shorter than 9 rounds. Taken together with rules regarding restarts makes it likely the championship will be awarded to Eli.

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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 3/13/2020 5:59am
3/13/2020 5:59am
Holtslayer wrote:
Hard one. Do you think think Roczen would have lost last race if he knew it was the last?
Neither Tomac nor Roczen had an idea that it might be the last race of the season. If they both had known, they both may have raced harder and we could have ended with the same result.....

If we are playing “what if”, we may as well bring up “Schrödinger‘s Barcia” and say that he was going to sweep all of the remaining rounds......
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racin mason
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racin mason 3/13/2020 6:44am
3/13/2020 6:44am
If you were a sponsor, how would you feel about paying a huge bonus to a title winner in a shortened season?Arent some of the bonuses paid by insurance companys? Crowning a champion is one thing, it will be inteersting to see how the bonuses shake out.
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JustMX
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JustMX 3/13/2020 8:13am
3/13/2020 8:13am
mikec265 wrote:
Some people just don't have a sense of humor. I thought it was funny , and I have nothing against Tomac. It's today's society. People just...
Some people just don't have a sense of humor. I thought it was funny , and I have nothing against Tomac. It's today's society. People just can't take a joke anymore.
No problem taking a joke as long as it is actually at least a little funny
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Indian_Dunes_4ever 3/13/2020 8:35am
3/13/2020 8:35am
Momus wrote:
Yep that dude is a Tomac hater masquerading as a concerned fan but is a concern troll.
Please find any of my posts where I have hated on Tomac.

Facts:

1. I like him...though he is not my favorite rider. His public personality is not all that "likeable" IMO.
2. He has crazy talent...but I have stated he's a head case....which is common view of many top industry people.
3. The worst thing about Eli Tomac....is his rabid fans. That's not everyone who is a fan...i'm talking about the "soccer" type fan who will riot and burn down anything in their path. Yeah...there's a number of them on here.
4. I do post things to "spool" up the above mentioned fans....The picture I created was a joke.


Just because someone has a different viewpoint....they're a "troll". That's rich. Some of you people need to grow a set.





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Frank Tuesday 3/13/2020 8:43am
3/13/2020 8:43am
Falcon wrote:
Yes. Even if there was only one race. Yes. Everyone racing has had an equal opportunity to collect points. I don't understand why anyone thinks that...
Yes. Even if there was only one race. Yes.


Everyone racing has had an equal opportunity to collect points. I don't understand why anyone thinks that 17 is some magic number of rounds necessary to name a champion. Why don't we run every single weekend and have a 52-race championship? What if 17 rounds seems like the riders haven't completed a full season? Do the last 20 years of Supercross titles need to have asterisks next to them?

The men who have raced themselves into the points lead at the time the races are concluded are the winners. If the last several races are cancelled, they are not part of the equation.
aeffertz wrote:
Just arguing your points, I feel a little torn on how I feel about it. The other years don't "need an asterisk" because they weren't 17...
Just arguing your points, I feel a little torn on how I feel about it. The other years don't "need an asterisk" because they weren't 17 rounds. The 17 number comes from the schedule that was announced. It is a 17-round championship this year.

Trying to think of a comparison... If the NFL had to cancel its playoff games and Superbowl, would you claim the team with the most wins at that time the Superbowl Champion? Or would there just be no Superbowl champs that year because the season was canceled and incomplete?

I wonder if there's a rule about this already in place? "If the championship series is canceled early due to unforeseen circumstances, the points leader at that time will be deemed champion" or something along those lines where the precedent has already been set and the riders should know that at any given weekend the series could wrap early.
It's a different way of determining a champion. In SX, the person with the most points (or whatever tiebreaker is used) at the end of the season in the champ. End of story. In football, the champ is determined by the Superbowl. Not comparable.
BikeGuy321
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BikeGuy321 3/13/2020 8:49am
3/13/2020 8:49am
When the AMA still had a Supermoto series Jeff Ward dominated most of the 2003 season, but didn't win the title. They made Vegas a one race Championship decider and all kinds of Superbike racers came out of the woodworks to possibly win a championship. Ben Bostrom ended up as the 450 champ. I bet Wardy still feels salty about that one.
Alex.434
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Alex.434 3/13/2020 9:58am
3/13/2020 9:58am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2020 9:59am
Weird that a bunch of self-proclaimed 'independent hard nosed take no nonsense non-snowflake manly men' on Vital can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that: 'LIFE AIN'T FAIR'

You played it safe and didn't race for the win? Shortened season bums you out? Sorry laddie, life ain't fair.
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str8line
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str8line 3/13/2020 10:11am
3/13/2020 10:11am
It was an epic season and it came down to the two leaders battling it out man-to-man in the end. Tomac is a deserving champion and I think even Kenny would admit that. As bitter as it probably tastes for him Kenny should be proud of his comeback. They are both great champions.
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Holtslayer 3/13/2020 12:59pm
3/13/2020 12:59pm
Holtslayer wrote:
Hard one. Do you think think Roczen would have lost last race if he knew it was the last?
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Yes he gave it all he had.
I Dont think he's given everything all season. I think he's been riding pretty cautiously with good reason.
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mxb2 3/13/2020 1:05pm
3/13/2020 1:05pm
Holtslayer wrote:
Hard one. Do you think think Roczen would have lost last race if he knew it was the last?
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Yes he gave it all he had.
Holtslayer wrote:
I Dont think he's given everything all season. I think he's been riding pretty cautiously with good reason.
Same. Could be said for tomac. Riding smarter..
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Villo2fan
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Villo2fan 3/13/2020 1:43pm
3/13/2020 1:43pm
Indian_Dunes_4ever wrote:
Sense of humor much? The pic was for the rabid Tomac fans. ....and where did I say Eli started the virus? I like both Tomac and...
Sense of humor much? The pic was for the rabid Tomac fans. ....and where did I say Eli started the virus?



I like both Tomac and Kenny (actually all riders)....I will admit that I wanted Kenny to win this year though.
If it was Roczen, Webb, Barcia etc, my feelings would be the same.....it's not a title for anyone.



Well I guess it’s a good thing you aren’t involved in the process and also that no one really gives a shit what you think. Win win
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crusty_xx 3/13/2020 1:54pm
3/13/2020 1:54pm
As expected but still man that sucks. What am I going to do with my life every Saturday evening?

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Due to the increasing spread of COVID-19 and expanding restrictions on domestic and international travel, and in accordance with national state and local governments prohibiting large group gatherings, the 2020 Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World Championship, season has been postponed until further notice. The following Supercross events have been cancelled: March 14 in Indianapolis, IN at Lucas Oil Stadium March 21 in Detroit, MI at Ford Field March 28 in Seattle, WA at CenturyLink Field April 4 in Denver, CO at Empower Field at Mile High *Includes Sunday Supercross Futures Cancellation April 18 in Foxborough, MA at Gillette Stadium *Includes Sunday Supercross Futures Cancellation Event ticket refund information can be located on the venue or ticketing website. If you purchased your tickets elsewhere, contact your point of purchase directly. The health and safety of everyone attending and competing in our live events, as well as our touring personnel, is our top priority. We will continue to monitor the situation. We value you as a fan and appreciate your patience and understanding during this unprecedented time. Visit Supercrosslive.com for real-time updates.

A post shared by Supercross LIVE! (@supercrosslive) on Mar 13, 2020 at 1:44pm PDT

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Racer111
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Racer111 3/13/2020 2:12pm
3/13/2020 2:12pm
Yes. Obviously you crown Tomac. They have raced 10 rounds and the 250 East and West have had significant enough rounds to crown all 3. It wasn’t to long ago the lights classes only ran 6-7 rounds a piece anyway. And Tomac put a stamp on it last Saturday. End of discussion.
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c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 3/13/2020 3:37pm
3/13/2020 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2020 3:38pm
Ask yourself would any other sanctioning body in sports crown a champion if only 60% of the series was finished?

The answer is no.

Finish 80% of the races and it's a different discussion.

Same way a Black flag restart works in a live race.
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mxpro252
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mxpro252 3/13/2020 3:46pm
3/13/2020 3:46pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
How many times have we heard “it’s a long season” Or “the goal is top five every race”? With a shorter schedule, strategies may have changed...
How many times have we heard “it’s a long season”
Or “the goal is top five every race”?

With a shorter schedule, strategies may have changed at any given race. A rider may have gone for that one extra pass if he knew the ‘long’ season was going to be a ‘short’ season.

I see the argument for either way but I agree with this. Especially in recent years, injuries have become such a big factor that playing it smarter and just being consistently in the top 5 have worked out best at the end of 17 races.
Falcon
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Falcon 3/13/2020 4:00pm
3/13/2020 4:00pm
Let's look at the rulebook. There may not be any specific mention of a shortened season, but there are all sorts of related indications in the MX rulebook, and there may be for SX as well. Can someone post up related info?

I'm thinking of "If a red flag is waived after more than 1/2 half of the race is completed, then the race will be considered complete and riders will be awarded points according to their position on the last lap." (Paraphrasing.)

There are also precedents from the outdoor series which we can draw from (Kenworthy's comes to mind, as mentioned above.)

Guys, if the season is abbreviated, there is still a champion. Who would YOU pick? For me it's easy: the guy who is leading the points. (And I'm a Roczen fan, by the way.)
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Falcon
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Falcon 3/13/2020 4:06pm
3/13/2020 4:06pm
Speaking of asterisks, note the one at the end. If I were Eli's lawyer, I'd already be spending my legal fees from the forthcoming case victory. This is from the AMA Supercross rulebook, page 4:

2020 Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World
Championship *
Jan 4: Angel Stadium of Anaheim
Anaheim, CA (250SX West)
Jan 11: The Dome at America’s Center
St. Louis, MO (250SX West)
Jan 18: Angel Stadium of Anaheim
Anaheim, CA (250SX West)
Jan 25: State Farm Stadium
Glendale, AZ (250SX West)
Feb 1: RingCentral Coliseum
Oakland, CA (250SX West)
Feb 8: PETCO Park
San Diego, CA (250SX West)
Feb 15: Raymond James Stadium
Tampa, FL (250SX East)
Feb 22: AT&T Stadium
Arlington, TX (250SX East)
Feb 29: Mercedes-Benz Stadium
Atlanta, GA (250SX East)
Mar 7: Daytona International Speedway
Daytona Beach, FL (250SX East)
Mar 14: Lucas Oil Stadium
Indianapolis, IN (250SX East)
Mar 21: Ford Field
Detroit, MI (250SX East)
Mar 28: CenturyLink Field
Seattle, WA (250SX West)
Apr 4: Empower Field at Mile High
Denver, CO (250SX East/West Showdown)
Apr 18: Gillette Stadium
Foxborough, MA (250SX East)
Apr 25: Sam Boyd Stadium
Las Vegas, NV (250SX West)
May 2: Rice-Eccles Stadium
Salt Lake City, UT (250SX East/West Showdown)
BOTH 250SX REGIONS WILL RECEIVE CHAMPIONSHIP
POINTS EARNED FROM THE COMBINED EAST/WEST
SHOWDOWN IN DENVER AND SALT LAKE CITY.
*Dates and Locations Subject to Change
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Falcon
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Falcon 3/13/2020 4:11pm
3/13/2020 4:11pm
Here's a hint that might apply as well. See subsection D:

4.7 Inclement Weather / Unacceptable Track Conditions
a. Events may be conducted regardless of weather conditions.
b. In the event of rain or other unfavorable conditions, it may be
necessary for Race Direction to alter the order of the event
schedule, including, but not limited to: adjusting the length of
races, practices and qualifying sessions, and delaying or
stopping the program completely.
c. Should a delay occur, Race Direction will make every effort to
resume the schedule in a timely fashion if conditions
significantly improve.
d. If an event is stopped due to weather or other conditions, riders
will be paid for purse-paying events that have been completed

...meaning only events that have been completed? Does it apply to championship points as well as money?
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Falcon
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Falcon 3/13/2020 4:16pm
3/13/2020 4:16pm
More rules that could be used to infer direction for this season's championship:

4.25 Restarts
a. The race is stopped (with fewer than 3 laps completed by the
race leader / whether it be a Heat, Last Chance Qualifier or
Main Event).
1. A red flag will be displayed to the riders.
2. The riders will return to their original starting gate and a
restart will take place as soon as possible.
3. The riders will keep their initial starting order.
4. The riders will be restarted from the starting gate.
5. Riders who were present at the starting gate for the original
start of the race but were unable to start and who did not join
the race before the red flag was displayed are not
authorized to take the restart.
6. The race will be run for the original number of laps.
7. In the case of a Final, if it is found impossible to restart then
this Final will be declared cancelled and not count for the
Championship.
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Falcon
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Falcon 3/13/2020 4:23pm
3/13/2020 4:23pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2020 4:25pm
4.29 Championship Points
a. When the results of Supercross Main Events are declared
official, Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World
Championship points will be awarded down to a maximum of
22 places for the overall results of the Main Events.
b. In the event that a qualified rider is unable to make the start of
the Main Event, they will be placed in last place in the final
results. If more than one qualified rider is unable to start, they
will be placed in order of qualifying in the final results. In either
case, they will earn points and purse based on the final results.
c. The Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World
Championship champion will be decided based on the total of
series points accumulated from each Main Event.

(There is no mention of the total number of scheduled events.)

EDIT: I corrected my formatting error but not anything in the text.)
Indian_Dunes_4ever 3/13/2020 4:30pm
3/13/2020 4:30pm
Thanks to Falcon for posting up the actual rules. If there is nothing regarding an aborted season now....you can bet there will be next year!

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toroP 3/13/2020 5:21pm
3/13/2020 5:21pm
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
How many times have we heard “it’s a long season” Or “the goal is top five every race”? With a shorter schedule, strategies may have changed...
How many times have we heard “it’s a long season”
Or “the goal is top five every race”?

With a shorter schedule, strategies may have changed at any given race. A rider may have gone for that one extra pass if he knew the ‘long’ season was going to be a ‘short’ season.

gregyou wrote:
It’s fair to say the long season normally suits tomac better
Tell me about the long SX season where Tomac faired better.
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1down5up
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1down5up 3/13/2020 5:41pm
3/13/2020 5:41pm
aeffertz wrote:
The championship is determined by the points leader at the end of the 17 round schedule. If they only race 10 of those 17, should they...
The championship is determined by the points leader at the end of the 17 round schedule. If they only race 10 of those 17, should they award #1 plates and the championship title to the current points leader for 250 West, 250 East and the 450 class?

250 West: 6 / 10 races completed (60%)
250 East: 4 / 9 races completed (44%)
450: 10 / 17 races completed (59%)

If so, where do you draw the line? If they only raced 3 out of 17 races, would you still hand out championship titles?
if there's truly no way to input any more sx events in before outdoors. the only smart thing to do is get riders best qualifying times from races entered and somehow points tally them up with riders existing points .let ama/feld figure that out.
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GeorgiePorgie 3/13/2020 5:41pm
3/13/2020 5:41pm
Now tomac gets to live with the oh it was a short season bullshit. Oh dungey never had competition. Oh....excuses excuses. Except....guy with most points at any given time wins.
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TXDirt
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TXDirt 3/13/2020 5:54pm
3/13/2020 5:54pm
10 rounds is enough deathcross. Let’s add more rounds to the motocross series!!
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early
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early 3/13/2020 6:07pm
3/13/2020 6:07pm
Indian_Dunes_4ever wrote:
Thanks to Falcon for posting up the actual rules. If there is nothing regarding an aborted season now....you can bet there will be next year!

If you think Monster, Feld, FIM , & AMA are going to start a series and not award a champion you're crazy
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Post a reply to: If the remainder of the SX races are canceled, do you still award 250 & 450 champions?