Aftermarket Engine Mount Problems

WhatchaWant 11/5/2019 6:14pm
11/5/2019 6:14pm
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

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Luxon MX
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Luxon MX 11/5/2019 6:34pm
11/5/2019 6:34pm
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Well, yes. The good aftermarket companies are focusing on only a few select products where the OEMs are working on an entire motorcycle. Given the limited focus, the aftermarket is able to create a better product than stock. OEMs are also heavily constrained by the end cost much more than aftermarket.

So yes, aftermarket can very well be better than stock. Of course that's not a hard rule. There are/have been plenty of aftermarket parts worse than stock...
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mx216
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mx216 11/5/2019 6:37pm
11/5/2019 6:37pm
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Its not about being better, its about adjustment. Same reason there are different bends of handlebars, different grips, different bar mount heights etc... It is about people achieving a certain feel on their bike.
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ML512
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ML512 11/6/2019 5:31am
11/6/2019 5:31am
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
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kb228
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kb228 11/6/2019 5:43am
11/6/2019 5:43am
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
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kb228
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kb228 11/6/2019 5:45am
11/6/2019 5:45am
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
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Thisusernameisavailable 11/6/2019 6:12am
11/6/2019 6:12am
kb228 wrote:
If they allow more flex then theres more torsion on the motor itself causing it to break.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
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slipdog 11/6/2019 6:52am
11/6/2019 6:52am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
Blink Blink Blink ???



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davis224 11/6/2019 7:24am
11/6/2019 7:24am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
I’m not an expert in this field but my thoughts are the oppposite way around.

More flex in the mounts = less forces on the motor.
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
bvm111
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bvm111 11/6/2019 7:33am
11/6/2019 7:33am
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

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WDSRCR
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WDSRCR 11/6/2019 7:35am
11/6/2019 7:35am
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
davis224 wrote:
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
My 2005 KX250 stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket. My 2015 KTM200 OEM was better as well.
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MXVet261
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MXVet261 11/6/2019 7:39am
11/6/2019 7:39am
Has anyone done any LIME testing against these new mounts to make sure they will be ok for Supercross? Tongue
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soggy
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soggy 11/6/2019 7:44am
11/6/2019 7:44am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

i believe he is using WCL mounts but im not positive.
shiftmx_22 11/6/2019 7:53am
11/6/2019 7:53am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
That's not cool at all - sketchy business practices or not.
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ML512
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ML512 11/6/2019 8:05am
11/6/2019 8:05am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
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mxracin
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mxracin 11/6/2019 8:36am
11/6/2019 8:36am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
Not very funny... because after watching that video, it sure seems like they are both blaming the motor mounts for the DNF.
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SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 11/6/2019 9:22am
11/6/2019 9:22am
ML512 wrote:
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else...
I talked to Swap, he said he was being sarcastic in the video. Him and Sleeter both know the bike problem was due to something else, they just commented about FCP because of some sketchy business practices and the way he went about some things with the both of them...which neither of them were stoked with.
Probably better to just observe on this one.
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Bruce372 11/6/2019 9:58am
11/6/2019 9:58am
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
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Dirty Points 11/6/2019 10:16am
11/6/2019 10:16am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

Don't know, but certainly top athletes are as susceptible to placebo effects as anybody... Probably more so, as they are grasping for any slight perceived competitive advantage.
scott_nz 11/6/2019 10:45am
11/6/2019 10:45am
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
I have seen a few pro circuit pipes cause that issue. The early 2019 kx450 ones did it as well
Black Diesel Bomber 11/6/2019 11:24am
11/6/2019 11:24am
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
What did he use for 2019?
Black Diesel Bomber 11/6/2019 11:27am
11/6/2019 11:27am
kb228 wrote:
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on...
Isnt the purpose of the mounts to allow the entire frame to flex more? If the entire frame is flexing more its going to pull on the motor more and those little tabs on a cylinder head are going to break before the other engine mounting points will.
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the...
IS the purpose of these mounts to flex MORE? I don't know.. But I see theres as much testing needed in to whether riders want the chassis to flex more or less. Its all about a persons feeling.

Which leads me on to another point in this thread where you said "We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do."

But is this necessarily true? Are these products BETTER or simply different? For instance if Yamaha see that a PC pipe on their YZ125 is 'better', why aren't they copying its dimensions the very next year? Im all for agreeing that people buy different pipes/links/clamps etc etc etc to fine tune their bike in to their riding style, I get that. But 'better' is questionable.
davis224 wrote:
This. RC had a polished OEM pipe on his CR 250 with a PC silencer, because the stock pipe was better than anything aftermarket.
Ask Roczen how his stock triple clamps worked on his RMZ compared to aftermarket clamps.
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ML512
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ML512 11/6/2019 12:35pm
11/6/2019 12:35pm
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
What did he use for 2019?
They went back and forth between stock and our stuff. I believe there will be another off-season test soon.
bvm111
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bvm111 11/6/2019 1:11pm
11/6/2019 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 1:17pm
bvm111 wrote:
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/11/06/383493/s1200_83095D76_90A0_4D0A_A6C8_4230D6EB1481.jpg[/img]
I wonder who makes these mounts? I wonder if Eli can feel a difference or is it just placebo?

ML512 wrote:
Works Chassis Lab.

Eli Tomac ran those fronts and tops for 2017 and 2018.
They were rhetorical questions Michael, I ran yours on my 2016 KX450 and loved them and could absolutely tell a difference! i think it’s funny when all the keyboard mechanical engineers and factory test riders come on and say that there is no way to tell a difference and any person that says they do it’s a placebo to justify the 250 dollars spent!
2
scott_nz 11/6/2019 9:20pm
11/6/2019 9:20pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 9:21pm
Hey Michael. I notice a lot of flat track bikes run no rear motor mount. Is this to get more flex ?
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mg311 11/14/2019 9:38am
11/14/2019 9:38am
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is amazing come to a retorque swingarm pivot transform the bike it's way easier on bump in corner entrance and in the ruts
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MZ193 11/14/2019 10:06am
11/14/2019 10:06am
mg311 wrote:
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is...
i have WCL on mine 19 CRF 450 here in italy we rode 90% on hardpack i made a comparison with stock and the difference is amazing come to a retorque swingarm pivot transform the bike it's way easier on bump in corner entrance and in the ruts
Dude i’m italian too but from lombardia!
Are you close to me? Guess no because hardpacks are generally from mid to south italy..
kb228
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kb228 11/14/2019 10:09am
11/14/2019 10:09am
WhatchaWant wrote:
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than...
So aftermarket bling has more test jigs, more test time, and more money, to try every shape, every thickness, every material, and every combo, more than the OEM?

If there was better, they would sell it as an accessory themselves.

kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
Even if we take pipes out of the equation..

Xtrig clamps vs OEM
CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM
Carillo rods vs OEM
ARC levers vs OEM
Boyesen waterpump vs OEM
Raptor pegs vs OEM
Cycra plastics vs OEM
RAD valves or vforce3 vs OEM
Motoseat vs OEM
RK or DID gold chains vs OEM
Dirttricks sprocket vs OEM
Tokyo Mods or TD ECU map vs OEM
KITE hubs vs OEM


These products are generally accepted as upgrades over oem. The list is short and still incomplete but 100% true.
aeffertz
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aeffertz 11/14/2019 10:35am
11/14/2019 10:35am
kb228 wrote:
Its hit and miss.. We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do. Wiseco hot rods pivot works...
Its hit and miss..

We can all agree pro circuit, fmf, cp carillo, je make better products than the OEMs do.

Wiseco hot rods pivot works etc do not
Bruce372 wrote:
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off. So many times, aftermarket stuff has a...
I had a PC system on a rm250 and the silencer cracked on the tabs twice and fell off.

So many times, aftermarket stuff has a very poor fit compared to stock in my experience. The only pipe I had that fit as well as stock was yoshi
kb228 wrote:
Even if we take pipes out of the equation.. Xtrig clamps vs OEM CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM Carillo rods vs...
Even if we take pipes out of the equation..

Xtrig clamps vs OEM
CP piston kit with DLC coated wrist pin vs OEM
Carillo rods vs OEM
ARC levers vs OEM
Boyesen waterpump vs OEM
Raptor pegs vs OEM
Cycra plastics vs OEM
RAD valves or vforce3 vs OEM
Motoseat vs OEM
RK or DID gold chains vs OEM
Dirttricks sprocket vs OEM
Tokyo Mods or TD ECU map vs OEM
KITE hubs vs OEM


These products are generally accepted as upgrades over oem. The list is short and still incomplete but 100% true.
You wouldn't say a forged piston is better than a cast piston? Wiseco is fine. Seems like you're just picking favorites.

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