Flat front trailer vs V-nose 6x12

Indy mxer
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9/23/2019 4:19am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2019 4:28am
I have 6x12 Stealth all aluminum slant roof v nose. I pull it with a 2017 Chevy Colorado 4x4 hauling 2 bikes and gear.
My truck has no problem pulling it. It's my first enclosed trailer, so I can't speak to the mpg comparison. But if I was buying again I would opt for v nose.
Common sense would say it would have less resistance, imo.
My Colorado normally gets about 21-23 mpg. Pulling my trailer knocks it down to about 12-13 mpg.

But if you can get a great deal on a flat nose and you're not going to be going long distances, does mpg really matter that much?

2
SCAM124
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Northville, MI US
9/23/2019 4:59am
Common sense also told us that putting the tailgate down yielded better fuel economy. Science told us otherwise.
The biggest factor in wind resistance is height above the aerodynamics of the tow vehicle and the rear turbulence behind the trailer. Again, height playing a large role back there also.

There are a lot of factors to determining which will yield better numbers for you, most of which are negligible. Go with the one you want and don't sweat the details.
4
49weasel
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9/23/2019 5:39am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2019 5:42am
Indy mxer wrote:
I have 6x12 Stealth all aluminum slant roof v nose. I pull it with a 2017 Chevy Colorado 4x4 hauling 2 bikes and gear. My truck...
I have 6x12 Stealth all aluminum slant roof v nose. I pull it with a 2017 Chevy Colorado 4x4 hauling 2 bikes and gear.
My truck has no problem pulling it. It's my first enclosed trailer, so I can't speak to the mpg comparison. But if I was buying again I would opt for v nose.
Common sense would say it would have less resistance, imo.
My Colorado normally gets about 21-23 mpg. Pulling my trailer knocks it down to about 12-13 mpg.

But if you can get a great deal on a flat nose and you're not going to be going long distances, does mpg really matter that much?

1 mpg doesn’t really matter to me but 2-3 does. We ride or race every weekend. Loaded down yesterday I averaged 18.5 mpg. My truck is 9 months old and I have 23,000 miles on it , so I drive a lot.
I’m contemplating suffering through buying 5x10. Between the trailer and truck bed I would have excess space but having to duck to get in or out might get old real quick.
early
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9/23/2019 5:59am
49weasel wrote:
1 mpg doesn’t really matter to me but 2-3 does. We ride or race every weekend. Loaded down yesterday I averaged 18.5 mpg. My truck is...
1 mpg doesn’t really matter to me but 2-3 does. We ride or race every weekend. Loaded down yesterday I averaged 18.5 mpg. My truck is 9 months old and I have 23,000 miles on it , so I drive a lot.
I’m contemplating suffering through buying 5x10. Between the trailer and truck bed I would have excess space but having to duck to get in or out might get old real quick.
You'll be cursing yourself the second time you bang your head, imo. If you are gonna buy a trailer get the one that does what you want it to do and suffer the consequences of it, it's gonna be more expensive either way.
3

The Shop

Zaugg
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9/23/2019 7:16am
At the end of the day, pulling a trailer, regardless the style, is going to hurt your fuel economy.

That extra 2-3miles per gallon is only going to get you maybe 50-100 more miles per tank...maybe. That variable could be a factor of load in the truck, weight, wind direction, hills, traffic, number of stops, etc.

Do a cost benefit analysis on the travel costs per year or per trip. You might find that the 2-3miles per gallon isn't that big a deal.

Honestly, get the good price, put the rest into your fuel fund, and go racing.
2
Camp332
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9/23/2019 7:58am
I want to get one of these, 6x12 v-nose. Anyone using a 4th Gen 4-Runner to pull one?
MxKyle (MD)
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9/23/2019 6:11pm
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer and was appalled by how bad my mileage was. From 23 to 10 or 11 mpg and I was routinely doing 1200 mile trips. Unlike everyone else I am a senior mechanical engineer with lots of training in air flow analysis. I spent at least a year of my free time trying anything I could think of to reduce the drag on a model of my F150 pulling a 6X12 V nose. Necessity is the mother of invention they say and I needed to do better than 10 mpg.

I started with the rear and made 20 iterations of the trailer tail you see on the semis. I saw improvement on the simulation but it was only about 5% which is actually what the Trailer Tail company advertises. I didn't consider that worth much as changing wind conditions will cause your mileage to very more than that.

I tried many many louver systems to try to redirect the flow into the low pressure drag area behind the trailer but found that anything I added created even more drag and offset any improvements I might have gained in the rear.

Finally, I arrived at a truck mounted spoiler system that is different than anything you have ever seen. Kind of funny looking actually but what the hell. The simulation showed such a major reduction in drag that I thought I have made a mistake in my analysis (I use Solidworks Flow BTW). After checking it a half dozen times and getting the same answer I ponied up the $70 for the materials and built the first prototype. I tested the spoiler by first towing the trailer. five miles out and another five back on a flat straight highway with little traffic and got 9.9 mpg. I added the spoiler and immediately did the same route to the tune of 16.6 mpg. Better that a 60% increase in mileage. Total success!

Now I have shelved the spoiler while I do patent searches and try to figure out how to market the idea. I'm too old to start a business and just want to sell the idea. This is way harder that you might think. The spoiler is so easily understood and copied I can't even use it until I get a patent and find someone to buy it. I just drove another 1200 mile loop and had to eat the $120 dollars my spoiler would have saved me.

--KT--
8
MXVet261
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9/23/2019 7:16pm
The real question here is what motor mounts are you using on the F150? Are they stock? Or aftermarket to provide more flex?
5
Efritts75
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Evansville, IN US
9/23/2019 7:38pm
JAFO92 wrote:
^ This. The problem is the rear, not the front. Theres a reason some tractors use aero panel skirts and rear tail fairs / boat tails...
^ This. The problem is the rear, not the front. Theres a reason some tractors use aero panel skirts and rear tail fairs / boat tails.

https://slate.com/culture/2013/04/truck-panels-what-do-they-do-explaine…


This has been argued ad nauseum on every imaginable forum. You will find just as many people who say the flat front tows better and is more stable as you will the V-nose. All of which are opinion and based on zero science. How many 18 wheelers you see out there pulling a V shaped trailer? None. Think about that. They use a rounded flat nose. But dont let that fact get in the way of bubba logic from Vitards.

https://www.google.com/search?q=does+a+v+front+trailer+do+better+than+a…

My V nose pulls as hard as anything I’ve ever pulled. I ended up having to get more truck.
1
wfoskir
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9/23/2019 9:26pm
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer...
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer and was appalled by how bad my mileage was. From 23 to 10 or 11 mpg and I was routinely doing 1200 mile trips. Unlike everyone else I am a senior mechanical engineer with lots of training in air flow analysis. I spent at least a year of my free time trying anything I could think of to reduce the drag on a model of my F150 pulling a 6X12 V nose. Necessity is the mother of invention they say and I needed to do better than 10 mpg.

I started with the rear and made 20 iterations of the trailer tail you see on the semis. I saw improvement on the simulation but it was only about 5% which is actually what the Trailer Tail company advertises. I didn't consider that worth much as changing wind conditions will cause your mileage to very more than that.

I tried many many louver systems to try to redirect the flow into the low pressure drag area behind the trailer but found that anything I added created even more drag and offset any improvements I might have gained in the rear.

Finally, I arrived at a truck mounted spoiler system that is different than anything you have ever seen. Kind of funny looking actually but what the hell. The simulation showed such a major reduction in drag that I thought I have made a mistake in my analysis (I use Solidworks Flow BTW). After checking it a half dozen times and getting the same answer I ponied up the $70 for the materials and built the first prototype. I tested the spoiler by first towing the trailer. five miles out and another five back on a flat straight highway with little traffic and got 9.9 mpg. I added the spoiler and immediately did the same route to the tune of 16.6 mpg. Better that a 60% increase in mileage. Total success!

Now I have shelved the spoiler while I do patent searches and try to figure out how to market the idea. I'm too old to start a business and just want to sell the idea. This is way harder that you might think. The spoiler is so easily understood and copied I can't even use it until I get a patent and find someone to buy it. I just drove another 1200 mile loop and had to eat the $120 dollars my spoiler would have saved me.

--KT--
You got me. I am interested. Can you do a PM?
2
wfoskir
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9/23/2019 9:31pm
I have towed a bunch, like many other people here.
I owned a 8x16 steel constructed trailer with a flat nose. I towed it for 19 years, 10MPG. I bought a new trailer, same manufacture same size, aluminum with a V nose, 10MPG. I was hoping for something better, but no magic.
Ready all the posts here, it seems the same, 10MPG no matter what trailer or truck.
It sucks! literally!
But I love my trailer and the fact that I can load up 3 friends and go ride.
3
FGR01
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Fantasy
9/23/2019 9:45pm
Camp332 wrote:
I want to get one of these, 6x12 v-nose. Anyone using a 4th Gen 4-Runner to pull one?
That's probably quite a bit of trailer to pull with that 4-Runner. I'm sure it might be within the towing specs of the vehicle, but I like to stay far away from the limits of the specs as they are typically over-inflated for practical purposes. You might be OK just doing short trips close to home but might be miserable on long trips with your throttle foot glued to the floor. Have to think about braking also. If the trailer does not have brakes it will be pushing your car at stops. Tongue weight also. 4-runners are kind of saggy in the rear to begin with. That V-nose is going to allow you to pile a bunch of stuff near the front of the trailer.
Indy mxer
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9/24/2019 4:02am
wfoskir wrote:
I have towed a bunch, like many other people here. I owned a 8x16 steel constructed trailer with a flat nose. I towed it for 19...
I have towed a bunch, like many other people here.
I owned a 8x16 steel constructed trailer with a flat nose. I towed it for 19 years, 10MPG. I bought a new trailer, same manufacture same size, aluminum with a V nose, 10MPG. I was hoping for something better, but no magic.
Ready all the posts here, it seems the same, 10MPG no matter what trailer or truck.
It sucks! literally!
But I love my trailer and the fact that I can load up 3 friends and go ride.
That's interesting. I've only had a v nose so I had no idea if it helps mpg. I do like the extra space though.
Indy mxer
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9/24/2019 4:02am
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer...
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer and was appalled by how bad my mileage was. From 23 to 10 or 11 mpg and I was routinely doing 1200 mile trips. Unlike everyone else I am a senior mechanical engineer with lots of training in air flow analysis. I spent at least a year of my free time trying anything I could think of to reduce the drag on a model of my F150 pulling a 6X12 V nose. Necessity is the mother of invention they say and I needed to do better than 10 mpg.

I started with the rear and made 20 iterations of the trailer tail you see on the semis. I saw improvement on the simulation but it was only about 5% which is actually what the Trailer Tail company advertises. I didn't consider that worth much as changing wind conditions will cause your mileage to very more than that.

I tried many many louver systems to try to redirect the flow into the low pressure drag area behind the trailer but found that anything I added created even more drag and offset any improvements I might have gained in the rear.

Finally, I arrived at a truck mounted spoiler system that is different than anything you have ever seen. Kind of funny looking actually but what the hell. The simulation showed such a major reduction in drag that I thought I have made a mistake in my analysis (I use Solidworks Flow BTW). After checking it a half dozen times and getting the same answer I ponied up the $70 for the materials and built the first prototype. I tested the spoiler by first towing the trailer. five miles out and another five back on a flat straight highway with little traffic and got 9.9 mpg. I added the spoiler and immediately did the same route to the tune of 16.6 mpg. Better that a 60% increase in mileage. Total success!

Now I have shelved the spoiler while I do patent searches and try to figure out how to market the idea. I'm too old to start a business and just want to sell the idea. This is way harder that you might think. The spoiler is so easily understood and copied I can't even use it until I get a patent and find someone to buy it. I just drove another 1200 mile loop and had to eat the $120 dollars my spoiler would have saved me.

--KT--
Finally some solid data. Thanks for the post!
early
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9/24/2019 5:22am
Has anyone seen a difference in mpg towing with a truck with cap or suburban style vehicle vs an open bed truck or one with just a bed cover?
zippytech
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9/24/2019 5:36am
I guess getting 8 mpg with this rig is doing pretty good..
5
9/24/2019 8:42am Edited Date/Time 9/24/2019 8:43am
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer...
These posts are killing me because I actually have all the answers but haven't completed the follow up. Like everyone else I bought an enclosed trailer and was appalled by how bad my mileage was. From 23 to 10 or 11 mpg and I was routinely doing 1200 mile trips. Unlike everyone else I am a senior mechanical engineer with lots of training in air flow analysis. I spent at least a year of my free time trying anything I could think of to reduce the drag on a model of my F150 pulling a 6X12 V nose. Necessity is the mother of invention they say and I needed to do better than 10 mpg.

I started with the rear and made 20 iterations of the trailer tail you see on the semis. I saw improvement on the simulation but it was only about 5% which is actually what the Trailer Tail company advertises. I didn't consider that worth much as changing wind conditions will cause your mileage to very more than that.

I tried many many louver systems to try to redirect the flow into the low pressure drag area behind the trailer but found that anything I added created even more drag and offset any improvements I might have gained in the rear.

Finally, I arrived at a truck mounted spoiler system that is different than anything you have ever seen. Kind of funny looking actually but what the hell. The simulation showed such a major reduction in drag that I thought I have made a mistake in my analysis (I use Solidworks Flow BTW). After checking it a half dozen times and getting the same answer I ponied up the $70 for the materials and built the first prototype. I tested the spoiler by first towing the trailer. five miles out and another five back on a flat straight highway with little traffic and got 9.9 mpg. I added the spoiler and immediately did the same route to the tune of 16.6 mpg. Better that a 60% increase in mileage. Total success!

Now I have shelved the spoiler while I do patent searches and try to figure out how to market the idea. I'm too old to start a business and just want to sell the idea. This is way harder that you might think. The spoiler is so easily understood and copied I can't even use it until I get a patent and find someone to buy it. I just drove another 1200 mile loop and had to eat the $120 dollars my spoiler would have saved me.

--KT--
Indy mxer wrote:
Finally some solid data. Thanks for the post!
If you start looking at air as a fluid it makes sense. The spoiler is just redirecting the air away from surfaces that cause drag. Just like Semi trucks that put a spoiler on the roof to match the height of the trailer behind. Or wheel covers and spacers on the back axles to smooth out the path of air along the side. Or skirts along the back of the cab to reduce the gap between truck and trailer. Or the way the side of the cab in the back tapers out just a bit to help bridge the gap between cab and trailer. Or skirts on trailers to limit air getting underneath and hitting surfaces. Or the trailer tails. Cab over semi's are declining for many reasons and MPG is one. They have to punch a huge hole through the air because they're flat in front.

It's no different from a F1 car. They start at the front and work their way back with airflow and introduce whatever elements are necessary to decrease drag (and improve downforce, which is drag ironically) by directing the air to specific areas or away from specific areas. It's all about where the air is going and what it's hitting along the way. The more surfaces for the air to run over, and not in to, the less drag there will be. You just need to know where the air is going and we don't all have wind tunnels.
1
MxKyle (MD)
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9/24/2019 4:57pm
wfoskir wrote:
You got me. I am interested. Can you do a PM?
For some reason the spam filter thinks engineer = robot and wont let met send a PM. Please PM me with your personal email for discussion.

Kyle
49weasel
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9/24/2019 5:53pm
wfoskir wrote:
You got me. I am interested. Can you do a PM?
For some reason the spam filter thinks engineer = robot and wont let met send a PM. Please PM me with your personal email for discussion...
For some reason the spam filter thinks engineer = robot and wont let met send a PM. Please PM me with your personal email for discussion.

Kyle
Me to. Email me.
Cbeverly@haydist.com
9/24/2019 7:10pm
early wrote:
Has anyone seen a difference in mpg towing with a truck with cap or suburban style vehicle vs an open bed truck or one with just...
Has anyone seen a difference in mpg towing with a truck with cap or suburban style vehicle vs an open bed truck or one with just a bed cover?
Pulling the toy hauler.... no. I picked it up without the topper and drove 500 miles home. Put the topper on, drove 300 to TX. Same mileage.

That's what I saw with the unladen truck, too. Topper made no difference.

Chevy 1500 5.3L engine "towing" gearing... I forgot the ratio.
1
kkawboy14
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9/24/2019 7:19pm
Judging from the love bugs that hit the trailor (the ones that missed the truck) the wind is only hitting the top 2 feet of my v nose trailor.

If anyone believes a flat nose is better than a v nose, I’ve got some swamp land to sell you!
kkawboy14
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9/24/2019 7:21pm
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has...
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has 2 surfaces in the front instead of 1 flat surface. Guess it causes more wind resistance. Never had a v-nose so I can’t confirm or deny this.
2 surfaces to hit?

What a complete idiot, that guy should never do anything but stay in bed all day! Think about it.....does it actually hit 2 surfaces or 1?
Motogoof
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9/25/2019 5:45am
For 25 years I used just my pickup for hauling and in the spring got a nice v nose 6/12. I got tired of unloading at night when I got home and always being worried about the bikes every time I park somewhere to grab dinner. After using the trailer the first few times I was blown away at how bad gas mileage was with my dodge 1500 on a trailer that I thought would be easy to pull. I would be very interested in some type of wing to improve fuel economy.
TymeMoto
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9/25/2019 6:05am
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has...
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has 2 surfaces in the front instead of 1 flat surface. Guess it causes more wind resistance. Never had a v-nose so I can’t confirm or deny this.
Should probably stay away from that dealer, he sounds like a real dumbass
early
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9/25/2019 7:07am
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has...
Don’t know how true this is but I was told by a dealer that v-nose will give you a little bit less mpg because it has 2 surfaces in the front instead of 1 flat surface. Guess it causes more wind resistance. Never had a v-nose so I can’t confirm or deny this.
TymeMoto wrote:
Should probably stay away from that dealer, he sounds like a real dumbass
A salesman will tell you the sky is green if it means he gets a commission.
MxKyle (MD)
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9/25/2019 11:03am
Entertain yourselves with some real data.

I am always amazed how much force is applied to the road in front of the truck as the pressure wave is pushed along.

This is with a topper but runs without the topper were not much worse. In other words the addition of a topper didn't help much in reducing the drag. Before you jump to the obvious conclusion of putting an airfoil on the topper I found that the drag of adding the airfoil was about the same as the drag removed from the front of the trailer so no overall improvement.


1
face biter
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9/25/2019 11:10am
It looks like our flatly mcflat face trucks aren’t helping much.
MxKyle (MD)
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9/25/2019 11:21am
face biter wrote:
It looks like our flatly mcflat face trucks aren’t helping much.
And you have to know the manufactures have done this analysis but they know that sporty looks sell better than an ugly truck with good gas mileage.
face biter
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9/25/2019 11:49am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2019 11:54am
face biter wrote:
It looks like our flatly mcflat face trucks aren’t helping much.
And you have to know the manufactures have done this analysis but they know that sporty looks sell better than an ugly truck with good gas...
And you have to know the manufactures have done this analysis but they know that sporty looks sell better than an ugly truck with good gas mileage.
Yup.
Also, it looks like the sprinter vans have broken the mold a bit and people have accepted them, maybe the next generation of work trucks will do the same for pick up trucks.
9/25/2019 1:16pm
I’ve owned/own both style trailers and have towed them with half, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, the difference is minimal and in my opinion not worth the loss of space on the v nose.

I have a flat bed one ton diesel that gets the same with both.
2

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