Mass Shooting in El Paso, Texas

SEEMEFIRST
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8/4/2019 9:30pm
Bobby, I was in a blind looking at 2 feeders. For whatever reason I focused on 1 of the 2.

I turned and looked at the other and there was about 10 pigs there.

I didn't have my AR then, so it was some WWII shit happening. I unloaded my 742. Scared the shit outta our guest down the hill in the "premiere" stand.

I killed 2, and one wounded ran past our guest apparently. He said he was too afraid to look.

Hahahahaha.. Why, because the howitzer was unloading? Ha!
SEEMEFIRST
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8/4/2019 9:31pm
He said he went fetal after my 1st shot.
.kyle
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8/5/2019 1:27am
SEE ARE125 wrote:
I’m convinced there’s a bigger issue here, and I’m not exactly sure what it is. Guns have been around forever, and mass shootings weren’t ever really...
I’m convinced there’s a bigger issue here, and I’m not exactly sure what it is. Guns have been around forever, and mass shootings weren’t ever really a problem. They happened, but it was pretty rare and not near the frequency that it happens now. I thought it may be a mental health issue, but again people, including the mentally unstable, have been around longer than the guns. So what has changed in the last couple decades to cause such a spike in mass shootings? What is different now? Focusing on the guns is focusing on the symptom, IMO. Guns are just a tool to do the job. Take the guns and it’ll be bombs instead. I will say that it appears the uptick in mass shootings seems to correlate with the rise of the internet, both beginning to really take off in the late 90s. Is it that the mentally unstable get online, find other likeminded unstable people that rationalize their thoughts and convince them to carry out these acts? What is it that is causing so many people to want to commit mass murder? We need to identify the root of the problem and figure out WHY these people are wanting to commit such acts.
The root of the problem - call me crazy, but I can't imagine all the chemicals in food help or the pollution (plastic micro beads) or even social media help. You think how 'normal' wingarm people seemed to be before all these became so problematic. People today are far more aggressive and arrogant than they ever used to be.

Part of me also believes tolerance isn't such a good thing either. If you're strict and have rules and punishment in place then people know how to tow the line. Break from it and the consequences should be the same for anyone.
1
8/5/2019 4:09am
It's the denigration and abandonment of males, and then somewhere along the line of being ostracised - left to stew in their own bitterness - they pickup an extreme ideology, reinforced by other like-minded bitter people, and here we are... Men need to find purpose again, they need to find meaning, and as Peterson says below the key to that is in responsibility.

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The Shop

71Fish
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8/5/2019 4:12am
RONJ OSE wrote:
These shooting make me buy more guns, the only way to stop an shooter is to shoot back. It’s not the 99% of Americans that own...
These shooting make me buy more guns, the only way to stop an shooter is to shoot back.
It’s not the 99% of Americans that own guns legally it’s the criminals and crazy’s
scott_nz wrote:
in a mass shooting in a public place, would untrained people shooting back randomly not just cause more injuries/fatalities?,

I have a concealed carry permit but rarely carry. It's not too convenient and to be honest, I'm not a very good shot. If I (or anyone carrying) were on the scene and close to a shooter when it started, there is a chance of taking them out. But if it goes longer and someone is shooting back, it can get confusing and the good citizen may be killed by another good citizen or the cops in all the confusion.
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early
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8/5/2019 7:57am
May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo
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Gworm
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8/5/2019 9:57am
I remember when I was young, they had insane asylums scattered around the country to care for the mentally ill. Now they are gone. Are most mentally ill people just cared for at home? I think that we are more worried about “labeling “ mentally ill people.

It’s not about the guns laws, it’s about mental health.

Ive said it before, if a law would fix it, just make murder illegal.
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peelout
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8/5/2019 10:36am
there is a lot of hate in the world, no amount of gun control will change that.

we as people need to try to be better to one another.

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Rooster
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8/5/2019 11:33am
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
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Gworm
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8/5/2019 11:36am
Thanks... I didn’t pay attention to the world much back then, and didn’t know what happened to them.

I agree, that would be one area I could see the government could help.
Falcon
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8/5/2019 11:42am
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
I think you'll have to admit that "nothing" is the wrong term here. Perhaps "not enough." If the shooter had more time, clearly he could have amassed more victims, right?
In any case, I agree with you that arming everyone won't necessarily stop those intent on doing harm.
There's no easy answer to this problem.
Gworm
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8/5/2019 11:42am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2019 11:50am
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

But... the guy in Texas surrendered, wasn’t killed.

Second, they were both “gun free zones”. Just lucky there were brave cops close in OH. That video of them running toward the shots should be required viewing for all those punks throwing water and disrespecting the cops in New York.

Third, I’ll say it again, if a law would help, make murder illegal.
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mxb2
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8/5/2019 11:54am
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
Gworm wrote:
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you...
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

But... the guy in Texas surrendered, wasn’t killed.

Second, they were both “gun free zones”. Just lucky there were brave cops close in OH. That video of them running toward the shots should be required viewing for all those punks throwing water and disrespecting the cops in New York.

Third, I’ll say it again, if a law would help, make murder illegal.
Those idiots in nyc are cowards. Could never be an officer.
RONJ OSE
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8/5/2019 12:27pm
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
So what’s your suggestion to stop the shootings then?
lukemoto
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8/5/2019 2:17pm
We (as in an entire species) need to be more aware of our fixation on tragedy. NOTHING fuels mass attention more than carnage, blood, gore, suffering etc... Why the fucking fuck cant we have a headline news article about someone who isn't a serial killer, murder, racist, white supremacist, jihadist, or any other TINY fraction of CIVILization.
What is the last movie or video game you have seen that portrayed the taking of another life as a bad thing??
Are there more documentaries about buzz Aldrin or are there more documentaries on Charles Manson? odd comparison but you get the point.
these victims don't deserve to have their legacy honored by using them to push any kind of agenda
1
avidchimp
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8/5/2019 3:17pm
lukemoto wrote:
We (as in an entire species) need to be more aware of our fixation on tragedy. NOTHING fuels mass attention more than carnage, blood, gore, suffering...
We (as in an entire species) need to be more aware of our fixation on tragedy. NOTHING fuels mass attention more than carnage, blood, gore, suffering etc... Why the fucking fuck cant we have a headline news article about someone who isn't a serial killer, murder, racist, white supremacist, jihadist, or any other TINY fraction of CIVILization.
What is the last movie or video game you have seen that portrayed the taking of another life as a bad thing??
Are there more documentaries about buzz Aldrin or are there more documentaries on Charles Manson? odd comparison but you get the point.
these victims don't deserve to have their legacy honored by using them to push any kind of agenda
Quality, non-violent/feel good headlines don't sell magazines or get clicks online.
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
8/5/2019 4:58pm
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
Gworm wrote:
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you...
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

But... the guy in Texas surrendered, wasn’t killed.

Second, they were both “gun free zones”. Just lucky there were brave cops close in OH. That video of them running toward the shots should be required viewing for all those punks throwing water and disrespecting the cops in New York.

Third, I’ll say it again, if a law would help, make murder illegal.
The El Paso Walmart wasn’t a “gun free” zone. Just like here, it’s open carry or concealed with permit. No permit required for long guns.

Most likely employees are not allowed to carry, and based on my trips to Walmart I think that’d be the correct policy.
1
OldYZRider1
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Bushnell, IL, USA
8/5/2019 5:20pm
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
Well the previous Washington DC chief of police Cathy Lanier basically said in a 60 minutes episode that if an individual had the volition to take action against an active shooter then they should since waiting for the police response could result in many more casualties.

Her comment was a bit baffling though considering how restrictive DC is with issuing CC permits.
lukemoto
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8/5/2019 6:21pm

Neil deGrasse Tyson

@neiltyson
In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.

297K
12:58 PM - Aug 4, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
164K people are talking about this

Fifty-six people were shot in Chicago over the weekend, including four fatally, according to the Chicago Sun Times. This is the second time in the last month that at least 50 people in Chicago were injured by gun violence in the same weekend and comes right before the Fourth of July holiday, which saw more than 100 people shot in the city two summers ago.

let's put this matter into the government's control to regulate and enforce (media seems to insinuate this). The United states government after all fully completes all of its assigned tasks in the most diligent cost efficient manner possible... take for example the prison system, DMV, Police, department of public works, VA hospitals, anything military related (I am a vet and totally support vets just not govt intervention) after this when the government has control of the entire medical process, think Medicare for all... gun shot victims will be a thing of the past... (since guns have been outlawed and such)
and finally when the all powerful "old white male" repays his debt to society and lifts up the underprivileged we can finally live in peace and harmony.
I wonder if anyone else who listens to the news everyday feels this nutz lol
JAFO92
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8/5/2019 7:11pm

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Meister
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8/5/2019 7:48pm
.kyle wrote:
As an outsider (i.e not an American) - what will it take (how many children have to be killed) before something has to change? Genuine question.
How many rapes is it going to take to start cutting dicks off?
BMSOBx2
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8/5/2019 8:13pm
Meister wrote:
How many rapes is it going to take to start cutting dicks off?
Not sure what point you're trying to make here Ace.
RONJ OSE
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8/5/2019 8:57pm
Meister wrote:
How many rapes is it going to take to start cutting dicks off?
BMSOBx2 wrote:
Not sure what point you're trying to make here Ace.
The point is people are saying we need to ban guns because of the shootings
He’s saying that we should cut dicks off to stop rape it’s a fucked up idea but whatever it’s an analogy
Gworm
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8/5/2019 9:12pm
Rooster wrote:
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe. In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed...
I guess there weren't enough guns in either Texas or Ohio to keep those poor people safe.

In both cases, the shooter was shot and killed within 60-90 seconds and they still managed a large body count of dead and injured.

So how can you justify the position that the best way to stop bad guys with guns is with good guys with guns? All your doing is decreasing the body count by a little bit. It's become frighteningly clear that arming everyone and open/concealed carry laws do nothing to prevent these shootings from happening.
Gworm wrote:
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you...
First, sorry for the downvote, my big fat thumb hit it when I tried to hit the quote button. I do disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.

But... the guy in Texas surrendered, wasn’t killed.

Second, they were both “gun free zones”. Just lucky there were brave cops close in OH. That video of them running toward the shots should be required viewing for all those punks throwing water and disrespecting the cops in New York.

Third, I’ll say it again, if a law would help, make murder illegal.
APLMAN99 wrote:
The El Paso Walmart wasn’t a “gun free” zone. Just like here, it’s open carry or concealed with permit. No permit required for long guns. Most...
The El Paso Walmart wasn’t a “gun free” zone. Just like here, it’s open carry or concealed with permit. No permit required for long guns.

Most likely employees are not allowed to carry, and based on my trips to Walmart I think that’d be the correct policy.
You are right, I was wrong. Sorry about that, I could have sworn there is a no guns sign on our local WalMart, but now I’ll have to check.

And I’ll go one step further, I had heard that the Dayton site was gun free, but I haven’t researched it myself, and could be wrong on that as well.

Meister
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8/5/2019 9:13pm
Banning guns will only take them away from law abiding citizens.

Let's make herion illegal too so people stop over dosing.

You gotta be plumb stupid to think psychos won't still get guns even if they're banned. Not even guns, crooks will still get high capacity mags too (a 30 rounder isn't what I'm talking about... They'll get 100rd drums, just pay a little more.
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chump6784
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AU
8/6/2019 12:53am
What I don't get, pro gun people say that the only way to stop a gunman is to shoot them. How was this guy able to carry out a mass shooting in Texas of all places? Surely he would have been shot as soon as he let off the first round.
Maybe the usa should ask australia how they sorted this problem out
1
8/6/2019 2:08am
Meister wrote:
Banning guns will only take them away from law abiding citizens. Let's make herion illegal too so people stop over dosing. You gotta be plumb stupid...
Banning guns will only take them away from law abiding citizens.

Let's make herion illegal too so people stop over dosing.

You gotta be plumb stupid to think psychos won't still get guns even if they're banned. Not even guns, crooks will still get high capacity mags too (a 30 rounder isn't what I'm talking about... They'll get 100rd drums, just pay a little more.
i think you are right in this in regards to solving gun violence in Chicago and other fucked up places,

however, most of these mass shootings like El Paso, have been middle class loners, not the sort of people that will find black market guns easily, and even if they did, it will at least drive the price up, with the amount of guns in circulation in the USA its going to take a while to sort things,
Casting
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8/6/2019 3:23am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2019 3:25am
People with a mental health diagnosis are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than the perpetrators.

Blaming mental illness is a way of kicking the can.

If you read through the research there isn't much in the way of evidence linking mental illness to mass shooters. You can be someone who kills people and yet not have a mental health diagnosis.

I promise this is a great way of scaring people away from treatment... I had a guy refuse to talk about if he thought he had a concussion because he was convinced I would take his guns or that I would have someone take his guns.... and this was over a concussion, not even a mental health issue.
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Gworm
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8/6/2019 4:11am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2019 4:39am
I’m sure you are right about it scaring people away from treatment, but I don’t accept that mass shootings are done by sane people. There is no easy answer.

I also think that the video games are desensitizing people that have that tendency. Sure, millions of people can play them with no effect, but I think others become immune to the violence and it seems normal to them. I am not saying I am for censorship of this, though. There is no easy answer.
early
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8/6/2019 4:23am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2019 4:35am
The conversation shouldn't even be about gun access, it should be about the motivation to select a Walmart in El Paso to murder the people this kid wanted to murder.

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
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