Stewart and Kawi?

yz25
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Edited Date/Time 7/17/2019 10:15am
Hurts to do this.... Yes another Stewart thread.

What was the reason for JS to depart from Kawi? Chatting with some buddies at the track, all had different stories of coarse. A lot of greats appear to change teams right after a dominant season. Most rides are locked down before or early into the final season of that contract. Seems like Kawi made a factory ride for him coming out of amateurs and Monster having deep pockets. So they seen the investment and how it paid off. Surely they weren’t losing money. Money doesn’t look like an issue unless someone isn’t willing to pay, while some else is. All the what if’s coming into play...
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Sully
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7/15/2019 6:05pm
I'm not sure if it's the only reason, but his relationship with Red Bull when Kawi picked up Monster as their title sponsor had something to do with it.
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Mike_Lawlor
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7/15/2019 6:05pm
He hated the Kawi 450. I think when it locked up off the face of a jump didn’t help either.
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kb228
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7/15/2019 6:06pm
Those early kx450s sucked ass
TeamGreen
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7/15/2019 6:11pm
Sully has covered it.
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The Shop

yz25
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7/15/2019 6:19pm
Sully wrote:
I'm not sure if it's the only reason, but his relationship with Red Bull when Kawi picked up Monster as their title sponsor had something to...
I'm not sure if it's the only reason, but his relationship with Red Bull when Kawi picked up Monster as their title sponsor had something to do with it.
That would make alot of since. Didn’t he have the logo on his pants or his jersey that eventually he started to have to cover up?

When it comes to writing checks on future investments, RedBull doesn’t appear to lose much. #deeppockets
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yz25
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7/15/2019 6:24pm
Didn’t he change team and gear? Made a full change in scenery.....
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ktmwoods
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7/15/2019 6:28pm
Yea, there was significant Monster v Red Bull friction at that point. Keep n mind that Red Bull was going big on the Honda program at that time in addition to the KTM program and then the whole Yamaha dealio was neutral territory, but Kawi with Red Bull was never gonna work. Stewy was at $1m annual from Red Bull at the time.
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oldblood
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7/15/2019 6:48pm
Hey, did Potter ever get him to do a backflip?
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Adam43
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7/15/2019 6:49pm


The Red Bull personal deal was huge bucks for Stewart in 2006, and he was worth every penny.

Kawi and Monster began their longstanding partnership in '07, Stewart remained under contract for another two seasons.

The move cost the sports premier rider millions of dollars in the prime of his career. Kawasaki wasn't too bothered with Ryan Villopoto in the wings. It was a risky gamble that paid off for them.

But you can't help but wonder what might have happened if they had been able to keep James happy. (my bet, another 3 championships - at least).
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yz25
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7/15/2019 7:01pm
Great stuff guys.

Amazing all the dynamics that goes into sponsoring a team to sponsoring a rider and how that rider is connected to a team through outside sponsors. The bike and team can be great, but it depends on the relationship and check book of a sponsor that can change the game.
That’s some major money being thrown around for a young guy especially 14 years ago.
I remember watching the JGR interview with Mr Gibbs stating all of the work that had to be done with sponsor in general to sign him. making sure this “company” wasn’t over lapping that “company” and all he paper work involved.
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Excaliburbmx
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7/15/2019 7:06pm
kb228 wrote:
Those early kx450s sucked ass
Yea James and red dog were killing it on those bikes. Didn’t ferry end up top five in points and James won every out door race?
ML512
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7/15/2019 7:11pm
The Red Bull vs Monster thing had a lot to do with it and an overall breakdown of trust between the team and James. To the extent that the team actually didn't offer him a contract for 2009 and on.

As for his Fox deal, I was told by two different members of the brand that when James was set to go to L&M the contract talks began around him doing SX and MX in 2009 and negotiations/prices were based around that. When Fox learned it was a SX only deal, they weren't up to pay him that exact amount for SX only and apparently if what I heard was true, Stewart's side continued to say that he would be doing both series...so contract negotiations broke down around that situation.
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oldblood
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7/15/2019 7:13pm
Larry Brooks knows where the bodies are buried.
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yz25
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7/15/2019 7:24pm
ML512 wrote:
The Red Bull vs Monster thing had a lot to do with it and an overall breakdown of trust between the team and James. To the...
The Red Bull vs Monster thing had a lot to do with it and an overall breakdown of trust between the team and James. To the extent that the team actually didn't offer him a contract for 2009 and on.

As for his Fox deal, I was told by two different members of the brand that when James was set to go to L&M the contract talks began around him doing SX and MX in 2009 and negotiations/prices were based around that. When Fox learned it was a SX only deal, they weren't up to pay him that exact amount for SX only and apparently if what I heard was true, Stewart's side continued to say that he would be doing both series...so contract negotiations broke down around that situation.
Now the man in the “know” speaks!

Can’t wait for the next session of bench racing/gossip with the guys, will sound like I know what I’m taking about this time.. very interesting stuff! I

As for the gear deal. Sounds like the Stewart camp was trying to pull a quick one. Wonder what there thoughts behind that with all the details that goes into contracts and smart people that have to read them to actually think they could surprise a company like fox in the final hr.
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7/15/2019 7:30pm
Pride. The reason why the relationship soured is Pride. On both sides. Kawasaki got butt hurt that Stewart would dare to switch. And Stewarts were too prideful to go to Kawasaki and ask for the contract. A lot of bad things come from too much pride, and they teach kids in school pride this and pride that, sometimes humility is more important than pride
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Moto Mofo
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7/15/2019 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2019 7:37pm
Was it on Pulp that they mentioned Stew would’ve been given a significant portion of stock in Monster if he’d stayed with Kawasaki? They dropped some mind-boggling figure on what that stock would be valued at today.... way, way, wayyyyy more than whatever Red Bull was paying him.

But the way he completely ignored anything Monster-related throughout the season ended up being the nails in the coffin, as far as him remaining there.
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ElliotB16
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7/15/2019 7:48pm
Factory ECU’s
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yz25
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7/15/2019 7:52pm
Moto Mofo wrote:
Was it on Pulp that they mentioned Stew would’ve been given a significant portion of stock in Monster if he’d stayed with Kawasaki? They dropped some...
Was it on Pulp that they mentioned Stew would’ve been given a significant portion of stock in Monster if he’d stayed with Kawasaki? They dropped some mind-boggling figure on what that stock would be valued at today.... way, way, wayyyyy more than whatever Red Bull was paying him.

But the way he completely ignored anything Monster-related throughout the season ended up being the nails in the coffin, as far as him remaining there.
I’m sure when talking stock options to a team that wants the “now” investment/return probably went in one ear and out the other. If that’s really the case, RedBull came out a lot better and got some what of a steal not having to match that.
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GrapeApe
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7/15/2019 7:59pm
oldblood wrote:
Larry Brooks knows where the bodies are buried.
You mean he knows where the careers are buried, because he dug the hole?
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oldblood
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7/15/2019 8:05pm
oldblood wrote:
Larry Brooks knows where the bodies are buried.
GrapeApe wrote:
You mean he knows where the careers are buried, because he dug the hole?
I wasn't a part of it, so I don't know. But it is possible that trying to manage a talent like James might have been like trying to control a tornado. Seems like there was a lot out of Larry's control affecting the situation.
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oldblood
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7/15/2019 8:07pm
But, if you need someone to blame, then,,,,,,,
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7/15/2019 8:09pm
always heard that the Stewart's where hard to deal with, and with Big James already seeming to be in the middle of things and on the infield you can see how that could be, and the Monster/Red Bull war was just starting which would not have made it any easier,

Kawasaki took a punt and offered RV the money, history shows they made the right call,
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oldblood
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7/15/2019 8:10pm
I'm sure every team manager has had a similar challenge, even Roger.
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7/15/2019 8:12pm
oldblood wrote:
I'm sure every team manager has had a similar challenge, even Roger.
wasn't he quoted saying the ideal factory rider would be an orphan,
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GPR245
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7/15/2019 8:26pm
Adam43 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/64/photos/1968/s600_GY5L0147_1.jpg?1294227304[/img] The Red Bull personal deal was huge bucks for Stewart in 2006, and he was worth every penny. Kawi and Monster began their longstanding partnership...


The Red Bull personal deal was huge bucks for Stewart in 2006, and he was worth every penny.

Kawi and Monster began their longstanding partnership in '07, Stewart remained under contract for another two seasons.

The move cost the sports premier rider millions of dollars in the prime of his career. Kawasaki wasn't too bothered with Ryan Villopoto in the wings. It was a risky gamble that paid off for them.

But you can't help but wonder what might have happened if they had been able to keep James happy. (my bet, another 3 championships - at least).
I remember hearing that Red Bull continued to pay him even though he wasn't allowed to display logos knowing full well he would be leaving eventually. This was through some form of media so hopefully there's some truth behind it.
Adam43
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7/15/2019 8:56pm
GPR245 wrote:
I remember hearing that Red Bull continued to pay him even though he wasn't allowed to display logos knowing full well he would be leaving eventually...
I remember hearing that Red Bull continued to pay him even though he wasn't allowed to display logos knowing full well he would be leaving eventually. This was through some form of media so hopefully there's some truth behind it.
It would make sense that he was at least paid something - since the deal was struck with Yamaha and Red Bull by the end of Supercross 2008.

Playing the what if game is pretty silly, but James Stewart + Kawasaki were synonymous, and one of the most lethal combinations the sport ever saw.

This particular drama changed his path, through a series of bike and team combinations that only resulted in one more title. All because of fizzy drinks. Wild!

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dimetime
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7/15/2019 9:24pm
scott_nz wrote:
always heard that the Stewart's where hard to deal with, and with Big James already seeming to be in the middle of things and on the...
always heard that the Stewart's where hard to deal with, and with Big James already seeming to be in the middle of things and on the infield you can see how that could be, and the Monster/Red Bull war was just starting which would not have made it any easier,

Kawasaki took a punt and offered RV the money, history shows they made the right call,
This is what l've heard as well.
7/15/2019 11:20pm
He hated the Kawi 450. I think when it locked up off the face of a jump didn’t help either.
He never went as fast on any other bike.. looks like it handled good to me

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kawasa84
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7/16/2019 2:12am
He hated the Kawi 450. I think when it locked up off the face of a jump didn’t help either.
motokiwi wrote:
He never went as fast on any other bike.. looks like it handled good to me

I know he didn't hate the KX 450, however the 06' was kind of an experimental year for the bike. The 4 speed transmission, and parts of the frame were updated for 07'.
Saying the he hated it is ludicrous, considering he went 24-0 outdoors in 08' on the KX. Something that hasn't been repeated since, and may never be again.

Getting stuck with the experimental YZ 450 backwards motor thing really hurt his chances at more championships as that bike took several years to iron out its handling woes.

Not to mention, having Aldon as his trainer, being in the best shape of his career, and winning with him, to dropping Aldon, and doing it his way.

Also, his last year on Fox, he had Dungey (on a Suzuki 250f) who was on Answer gear, actually train with him down in Florida at Stewarts compound, the next year, Dungey was with Fox, Stewart was on Answer, and Dungey got Aldon as his trainer. The rest, is history!!!
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rhargrave431
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7/16/2019 5:09am
Moto Mofo wrote:
Was it on Pulp that they mentioned Stew would’ve been given a significant portion of stock in Monster if he’d stayed with Kawasaki? They dropped some...
Was it on Pulp that they mentioned Stew would’ve been given a significant portion of stock in Monster if he’d stayed with Kawasaki? They dropped some mind-boggling figure on what that stock would be valued at today.... way, way, wayyyyy more than whatever Red Bull was paying him.

But the way he completely ignored anything Monster-related throughout the season ended up being the nails in the coffin, as far as him remaining there.
Yeah I remember that conversation. I think the number was like 40 million?
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