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You put 2004 Carmichael on a 2015 CRF, and he beats Tomac at Hangtown without a doubt. And Carmichael was in that race with RV. He came from 40th to 3rd and was posting faster lap times coming through traffic
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RC also crushed the top GP guys like Everts, Pichon, and Cairoli multiple times. Do you really think the current group of guys are any better than them?
Watching Villopoto getting beat by Reed for half of 2011 was all I needed to see to know RV wouldn't have a prayer against Ricky. I think Villopoto is probably the 2nd best rider ever, but RC would beat him handily outdoors.
I don't think you can use one rider for your argument, especially in only a 2 year comparison. You can't say, well RC beat Reed by over a minute in moto 1 at Hangtown in 2005 and Reed beat RV in moto 1 at Hangtown in 2011. That's not how it works; tracks change, conditions change, bikes change, CONFIDENCE changes. 2009 and 2011 are PRIME Reed outdoors. Does he have that same confidence if Stewie an RC are racing, maybe not, but we will never know. This is why you can't necessarily take one rider and use their results across different season.
2013 RV crushed the field, so now is he on par with 2002, 2004, or 2005 RC? One might say no, not for 2002 and 2004 cuz RC went 24-0, RV didn't do that, but RV won a lot and he crushed the field at the end of 2013. 2013 RV was probably prime RV outdoors.
Do I think RC would win today if he were racing to form like 2002-2005, yes; he likely would win the most overalls and championships. However, Do I think he would go 24-0 today, no. Do I think he would DESTROY the field week in and week out, no.
And you're not getting my point, RC didn't just dominate Reed occasionally, he dominated him every time they raced... Reed never once beat RC in a straight up race outdoors. The only times he won was because RC crashed or had a mechanical, which was rare. It was a great moto if Reed could finish within 20 seconds of Ricky. Compare that to Reed straight up beating RV many times outdoors.
The current field would get destroyed by RC on a regular basis. Like I said, none of the current guys would beat prime Stewart and JS had nothing for Ricky outdoors. Tomac is the only rider that flashes that same speed and he can only do it a few times a year. RC was able to do that every single race and pull a hole shot while doing so. Even if Tomac went full beast mode for an entire season, he wouldn't get good enough starts to even sniff RC.
Taking Reed and using him is not a fair comparison. You are making generalizations that if RC dominated Reed and Reed was battling with RV and Dungey that surely RC would have beaten RV and Dungey by the same type of gap.
I highly doubt 2005 RC would beat 2013 RV by more than 30 seconds on a regular basis. As a matter of fact, I would probably take RV to win 25-50% of the motos against RC and would also bet RC only beats RV by 30 seconds or more 1-3 times (assuming RV doesn't crash his brains out in multiple motos).
End this thread. Too many hypotheticals and wishing.
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And yes, I'm saying that Reed being able to run with Villopoto and not having a prayer against RC signifies that RC is comfortably faster. Shockingly, I don't believe Reed got significantly better after his prime... Do you seriously think 29 year old Reed was 30 seconds faster per moto than 24 year old Reed??
RV would be incredibly lucky if he won 25% of the motos against RC. That would be a much better percentage than any other racer before him. But RC was faster and way more consistent. RV wouldn't win any outdoor titles if he raced against Ricky.
There was an ad that was for Oakley? Pro Taper? that laid out his statistics for his outdoors campaign when he went 24-0 and it was scary lead like 93% of laps. 21 holeshots out of 24 or something crazy like that.
But really there is no comparision when you look at what he did. 10 years undeafeated outdoors. Think about that. He NEVER lost an outdoor series....ever.
RC would have a 30 point lead already if he was racing this series.
None of the current guys could consistently run Stewart's pace. James was also amazing at starts and would be gone by the time Tomac (who is the only person that has a chance of keeping up with him) made it to 2nd place.
I would be standing 40' from the berm at the top of the Binghampton downhill triple, and he would hit it so hard on his CR250 that the ground would shake under me. Even when leading by a ton.
The guy was a winning machine and would do whatever it took. I believe he would've gapped the field at WW on a 250 smoker...
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