Unpopular Opinion: Less riders on the track.

kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 2/19/2019 9:42am
2/19/2019 9:42am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2019 9:44am
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
We need a better way for privateers to expand their skill set. A true stepping stone. Loretta Lynn to supercross is a huge jump. Need another...
We need a better way for privateers to expand their skill set. A true stepping stone.

Loretta Lynn to supercross is a huge jump. Need another class really. They don’t have a problem creating 10,000 amatuer classes. Why not create another true stepping stone pro class. With true support to build these guys up see what happens.
Privateers can race the 250 class. They can try to qualify during the day program. THe premier class doesnt need to have people rolling the whoops halfway through, seriously? The biggest reason that guy is there is because its cheaper to run a 450 than a 250, not because he belongs on a 450!

I am not trying to prevent a privateer from showing up and trying to qualify, but trying to preserver privateers in the Premiere class is counter-intuitive. We need 22 top guys in there and fewer Amarts and Davalos in the 250 class. THey are getting paid too much.
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kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 2/19/2019 9:56am
2/19/2019 9:56am
Falcon wrote:
How about changing the tracks instead of taking away jobs? The tracks could be made much wider by reducing the number of lanes. Now that the...
How about changing the tracks instead of taking away jobs? The tracks could be made much wider by reducing the number of lanes. Now that the race length is mostly controlled by timing instead of # of laps, it wouldn't affect the elapsed time; just the number of laps.
We could also increase parity by making the obstacles a little easier (not joking here.) Having some crazy rhythm section makes it possible for the top-flight guys to have some kind of edge, but it also separates the riders more. If you want exciting, bunched-up racing, you do it with an easier track.
The jobs arent taken away dude, they are shifted to the right place, the PREMIERE CLASS. The money spent on these elite 250 riders gets spent in the 450 class, filling the field with 22 true pro's.

Theres still jobs in the 250 class, but you dont need to spend a fortune to build a winning bike and pay a factory rider for 5-6 years. You take a young star, groom him at a fair salary, and then move him along up into 450 if he can cut it. If not, he can try to qualify for either class up until a certain age in 250, then a few years more 450, and if the system works, he wont make any mains.
just James
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just James 2/19/2019 9:56am
2/19/2019 9:56am
kage173 wrote:
No thanks OP. The best part of the race is watching the whole gate battle for the first turn. And, my favorite races are watching a...
No thanks OP.

The best part of the race is watching the whole gate battle for the first turn. And, my favorite races are watching a top guy get a bad start and slice through the pack.
DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Some of you jokers want to give a pass to riders who are slow into the first turn, but get rid of riders who are "slow" in the rest of the race.
Let's get rid of the whoops, because some of riders are better than others. (Sarcasm)
Let's get rid of big jumps, because some riders are better than others at jumps. (Also sarcasm)

Here's another clue, the start is part of the race. Get good at it, or suffer the consequences in your race results.
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Lando
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Lando 2/19/2019 9:58am
2/19/2019 9:58am
sbarrington314 wrote:
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is. I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple...
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is.
I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple benefits.

1. Track design. The starting gate for 22 riders eats up a lot of potential floor space for other obstacles.
2. Track conditions. Less riders hitting the track in qualifying, heats, lcq's, mains is a track that doesn't get as beat up.
3. Makes racing better. Riders that get a bad start but can run up front have a better chance at getting up front. Take this last weekend with Barcia for example. Dude passed like 15 riders but still only salvaged a 7th place finish.
4. Makes spectating better. IDK about everyone else but when attending a supercross in person, it can get overwhelming by half way through a race. Lots can go unseen.
5. less lappers wouldn't be terrible either.
Barcia went through the LCQ. So with your 12 man gate he would have not been in the main instead of a 7th.

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early
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early 2/19/2019 10:26am
2/19/2019 10:26am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2019 10:28am
The simple solution is to make the 250sx a national class. This would make the talent and support of both classes less diluted.
mx317
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mx317 2/19/2019 11:34am
2/19/2019 11:34am
Gotland Edon wrote:
There is already a series that has 12 riders on the starting gate the way you want it [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/02/19/326434/s1200_logo.jpg[/img]
There is already a series that has 12 riders on the starting gate the way you want it



Has MXGP ever had just 12 riders on the gate? I don't remember it, not saying it didn't happen, but that is a little far fetched. I think even the fly away races have more than that.
mx317
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mx317 2/19/2019 11:35am
2/19/2019 11:35am
You should not be giving out ides when you don't even know how many are in the race (22).
mx617
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mx617 2/19/2019 11:52am
2/19/2019 11:52am
"Disagree completely. Name other high-end motorsports where you can just show up and try and qualify with no previous history or track record within it (SX), to get on prime tv air the same night?"

Um, other than the fact that the "no previous history" thing is long gone, pretty much all motorsports with the exception of F1. Daytona 500 has a lot more than 43 cars trying to qualify. Same as NHRA. etc etc
Kawi15
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Kawi15 2/19/2019 12:03pm
2/19/2019 12:03pm
What are you guys searching for? All these ideas to somehow make it better when all it is, is racing. Is not the racing exciting enough as it is?
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sbarrington314 2/19/2019 12:03pm
2/19/2019 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2019 12:04pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is. I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple...
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is.
I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple benefits.

1. Track design. The starting gate for 22 riders eats up a lot of potential floor space for other obstacles.
2. Track conditions. Less riders hitting the track in qualifying, heats, lcq's, mains is a track that doesn't get as beat up.
3. Makes racing better. Riders that get a bad start but can run up front have a better chance at getting up front. Take this last weekend with Barcia for example. Dude passed like 15 riders but still only salvaged a 7th place finish.
4. Makes spectating better. IDK about everyone else but when attending a supercross in person, it can get overwhelming by half way through a race. Lots can go unseen.
5. less lappers wouldn't be terrible either.
Lando wrote:
Barcia went through the LCQ. So with your 12 man gate he would have not been in the main instead of a 7th.
I didn't say get rid of qualifying. There would still be heats and LCQs. Just with less riders and less positions transferring. Like 4 each.
And 12 is what I threw out there because that's all that finished on the lead lap. But 16 would still be better than 22.
Lando
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Lando 2/19/2019 12:19pm
2/19/2019 12:19pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is. I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple...
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is.
I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple benefits.

1. Track design. The starting gate for 22 riders eats up a lot of potential floor space for other obstacles.
2. Track conditions. Less riders hitting the track in qualifying, heats, lcq's, mains is a track that doesn't get as beat up.
3. Makes racing better. Riders that get a bad start but can run up front have a better chance at getting up front. Take this last weekend with Barcia for example. Dude passed like 15 riders but still only salvaged a 7th place finish.
4. Makes spectating better. IDK about everyone else but when attending a supercross in person, it can get overwhelming by half way through a race. Lots can go unseen.
5. less lappers wouldn't be terrible either.
Lando wrote:
Barcia went through the LCQ. So with your 12 man gate he would have not been in the main instead of a 7th.
sbarrington314 wrote:
I didn't say get rid of qualifying. There would still be heats and LCQs. Just with less riders and less positions transferring. Like 4 each. And...
I didn't say get rid of qualifying. There would still be heats and LCQs. Just with less riders and less positions transferring. Like 4 each.
And 12 is what I threw out there because that's all that finished on the lead lap. But 16 would still be better than 22.
I'm not saying no qualifying, I'm saying that there were 18 riders that transferred to the main ahead of Barcia
Tarz483
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Tarz483 2/19/2019 12:21pm
2/19/2019 12:21pm
Kawi15 wrote:
What are you guys searching for? All these ideas to somehow make it better when all it is, is racing. Is not the racing exciting enough...
What are you guys searching for? All these ideas to somehow make it better when all it is, is racing. Is not the racing exciting enough as it is?
Some people just enjoy having conversations about it and sometimes its fun to try to think if different variations and ways to evolve or maybe improve things, i dont like the idead if less guys in the main but i do like to see different things tried rather than just leaving everything the same.
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sbarrington314 2/19/2019 12:55pm
2/19/2019 12:55pm
Lando wrote:
Barcia went through the LCQ. So with your 12 man gate he would have not been in the main instead of a 7th.
sbarrington314 wrote:
I didn't say get rid of qualifying. There would still be heats and LCQs. Just with less riders and less positions transferring. Like 4 each. And...
I didn't say get rid of qualifying. There would still be heats and LCQs. Just with less riders and less positions transferring. Like 4 each.
And 12 is what I threw out there because that's all that finished on the lead lap. But 16 would still be better than 22.
Lando wrote:
I'm not saying no qualifying, I'm saying that there were 18 riders that transferred to the main ahead of Barcia
Well you can't really base it off of Arlingtons results. Heats and lcq's would have to be structured differently. You wouldn't take 9 spots from a heat. You'd take 4 or 5. And then take 2 or 4 from the lcq. So yea,, Barcia would have still had to race the LCQ either way. Which he won. Although, he might not have because the LCQ would be way more stacked. It's a hypothetical, dude. lol.
RichieW13
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RichieW13 2/19/2019 1:02pm
2/19/2019 1:02pm
SPYGUY wrote:
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15...
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15 riders max.

The lapped riders rolling around halfway through the main add nothing to the event other than potentially getting in the way of the leaders.

People will argue that it will hurt the privateers, but let's get real. No one is paying attention to them in the main event anyway.
I go back and forth on this. There are generally only 10-15 guys in a main event that have a realistic shot to get a podium finish. So what's the point in having 7+ guys there who don't have much of a chance? It makes the first turn exciting to have 22 guys going for it, but that's a short amount of excitement.

Since the SX program has so much down time, maybe it would make for a better show if they ran a main event with about 15 riders, but before that ran a B main with the next 15 guys who didn't make the main. But then, I'm the one guy who liked the Semis.
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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 2/19/2019 6:15pm
2/19/2019 6:15pm
16 top qualifiers, this way Reed would still get in the main
GangGreen
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GangGreen 2/20/2019 5:55am
2/20/2019 5:55am
Mx317 stated, “So take out a major factor of being a good racer, the ability to get a good start if you have the skills. I'm not a fan of this idea” AGREE
Kaptkaos wrote,” The biggest reason that guy is there is because its cheaper to run a 450 than a 250, not because he belongs on a 450! “ AGREE

THIS could be easily fixed by removing the ridiculous outdated “double-displacement rule” and racing 125cc and 250cc motorcycles, ANY stroke. They’ve already dumbed it down enough with timed practice, double-displacement four-strokes, holeshot devices, starting grids, traction control, ignition maps,and excessive grooming.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 2/20/2019 5:59am
2/20/2019 5:59am
SPYGUY wrote:
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15...
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15 riders max.

The lapped riders rolling around halfway through the main add nothing to the event other than potentially getting in the way of the leaders.

People will argue that it will hurt the privateers, but let's get real. No one is paying attention to them in the main event anyway.
RichieW13 wrote:
I go back and forth on this. There are generally only 10-15 guys in a main event that have a realistic shot to get a podium...
I go back and forth on this. There are generally only 10-15 guys in a main event that have a realistic shot to get a podium finish. So what's the point in having 7+ guys there who don't have much of a chance? It makes the first turn exciting to have 22 guys going for it, but that's a short amount of excitement.

Since the SX program has so much down time, maybe it would make for a better show if they ran a main event with about 15 riders, but before that ran a B main with the next 15 guys who didn't make the main. But then, I'm the one guy who liked the Semis.
The point is that , being in the race that they qualified to be in is how the 7+guys who dont have much of a chance get the experience and the opportunity to showcase themselves to get the ride , but also this is a very unfair sport its really like there are multiple races going on at the same time almost an A and B class and the reason i say that is because the privateers in 15th 22nd are on very different bikes than the factory riders , even more of a problem in the 250 class, but ive said for years i would like to see everyone on equal equipment, then maybe you would see a privateer have a breakthrough ride once in a while, but for the 15th 22nd guys a 10th would be like a win and sometimes just making the main against guys on factory bikes is the goal
Forty
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Forty 2/20/2019 6:47am
2/20/2019 6:47am
This isn't a bad idea.

What issues does it remedy?

What issues does it raise?

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ga_pike
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ga_pike 2/20/2019 7:04am
2/20/2019 7:04am
Johnny Lock wrote:
I’m not for it. I think you’d see a significant participation drop in the sponsors and riders. Why would I as a privateer even show up...
I’m not for it. I think you’d see a significant participation drop in the sponsors and riders.

Why would I as a privateer even show up to qualify Saturday when I know only twelve are going to make it to the Main? Why would I as a sponsor take a chance on an alsoran kid when I know I’m not going to get Main event type exposure? All because we want a clean track?

This sport is already way too exclusive. Let’s not make it even more so.

jeffro503 wrote:
I gotta agree with this. That idea would literally kill the entire privateer class. Some people may only want to watch the top guys , but...
I gotta agree with this. That idea would literally kill the entire privateer class. Some people may only want to watch the top guys , but the privateer's are just as important. The 13th - 22nd place guy's are extremely fast dude's in their own right. Maybe not Tomac , Webb , Roczen fast......but they need to be part of the show.
Doesn't have to. If anything, you could make this more enticing for the privateers. Set the "Main Event" Field at 15. Top 5 from each heat make the A main. Then have a reset and take 2 guys from the semis. The rest go the the B main. The winner of the B main gets the last spot in the A main... sort of how they do the MXDN.
Kawi15
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Kawi15 2/20/2019 8:22am
2/20/2019 8:22am
Kawi15 wrote:
What are you guys searching for? All these ideas to somehow make it better when all it is, is racing. Is not the racing exciting enough...
What are you guys searching for? All these ideas to somehow make it better when all it is, is racing. Is not the racing exciting enough as it is?
Tarz483 wrote:
Some people just enjoy having conversations about it and sometimes its fun to try to think if different variations and ways to evolve or maybe improve...
Some people just enjoy having conversations about it and sometimes its fun to try to think if different variations and ways to evolve or maybe improve things, i dont like the idead if less guys in the main but i do like to see different things tried rather than just leaving everything the same.
Well the OP was suggesting Less Riders. Smaller gates, for some supposed gain?. And what about the riders? What would they have to say about this? And should not they have a say in the matter seeing as they are the ones who are most effected? Apparently he wants to shrink the sport and only have certain riders out there. Why? I am pretty certain the riders do not have the same opinion, because the gates are still full.
RichieW13
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RichieW13 2/20/2019 9:57am
2/20/2019 9:57am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2019 9:58am
SPYGUY wrote:
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15...
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15 riders max.

The lapped riders rolling around halfway through the main add nothing to the event other than potentially getting in the way of the leaders.

People will argue that it will hurt the privateers, but let's get real. No one is paying attention to them in the main event anyway.
RichieW13 wrote:
I go back and forth on this. There are generally only 10-15 guys in a main event that have a realistic shot to get a podium...
I go back and forth on this. There are generally only 10-15 guys in a main event that have a realistic shot to get a podium finish. So what's the point in having 7+ guys there who don't have much of a chance? It makes the first turn exciting to have 22 guys going for it, but that's a short amount of excitement.

Since the SX program has so much down time, maybe it would make for a better show if they ran a main event with about 15 riders, but before that ran a B main with the next 15 guys who didn't make the main. But then, I'm the one guy who liked the Semis.
Tarz483 wrote:
The point is that , being in the race that they qualified to be in is how the 7+guys who dont have much of a chance...
The point is that , being in the race that they qualified to be in is how the 7+guys who dont have much of a chance get the experience and the opportunity to showcase themselves to get the ride , but also this is a very unfair sport its really like there are multiple races going on at the same time almost an A and B class and the reason i say that is because the privateers in 15th 22nd are on very different bikes than the factory riders , even more of a problem in the 250 class, but ive said for years i would like to see everyone on equal equipment, then maybe you would see a privateer have a breakthrough ride once in a while, but for the 15th 22nd guys a 10th would be like a win and sometimes just making the main against guys on factory bikes is the goal
How many of the guys who are running in the 15-22 range ever become guys who could compete for podiums?

Going back to 2014, there are only 4 riders to make a 450 podium, who hadn't already won a 250 championship (either SX or MX):

Josh Grant - he won the second 450 SX race he was in. So he was a podium contender from the beginning.
Justin Brayton - he was a top 10 guy as soon as he started racing 450s
Josh Hill - He had 4 podiums his first season in 450 SX.
Weston Peick - he didn't finish in the top 10 of a 450SX race until his 25th race.

The point of my exercise is to say that in the past 5+ seasons, Weston Peick is the only rider who improved from 15-22 guy to podium contender. Everybody else was either a top 250 rider or immediately got good on 450s.
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 2/20/2019 10:04am
2/20/2019 10:04am
Forty wrote:
This isn't a bad idea.

What issues does it remedy?

What issues does it raise?

It issues the remedy of lappers rolling the jumps - which is good. Maybe they should at least black flag any riders who are rolling most of the jumps.

It raises the issue of pulling top riders off the track. Occasionally the "stars" will get lapped due to a crash. But when that happens, I assume they never get their lap back. I think Jason Anderson got lapped at Salt Lake City last year when he crashed and had a problem with his wheel. He ended up finishing 17th. An immediate black flag would have given him a 22nd place finish, and cost him 5 points. Instead of going into Vegas with a 14 points lead, he would have had a 9 point lead.

This could be solved by having top 5 in the point standings be exempt from the automatic black flag.
Compromised 2/20/2019 10:13am
2/20/2019 10:13am
I don't mind riders being off pace.

I do mind riders who are sharing the track with the fastest men on the planet rolling sections consistently. Rolling here or there because of fast guys coming through or mistiming something is totally understandable. But at about halfway the usual suspects roll regularly
SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 3/9/2026 8:54am
3/9/2026 8:54am
SPYGUY wrote:
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15...
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15 riders max.

The lapped riders rolling around halfway through the main add nothing to the event other than potentially getting in the way of the leaders.

People will argue that it will hurt the privateers, but let's get real. No one is paying attention to them in the main event anyway.

Just bumping this now that Tomac stated the same exact thing, down to the 15 rider number.

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KennyT
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KennyT 3/9/2026 8:57am
3/9/2026 8:57am
sbarrington314 wrote:
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is. I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple...
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is.
I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple benefits.

1. Track design. The starting gate for 22 riders eats up a lot of potential floor space for other obstacles.
2. Track conditions. Less riders hitting the track in qualifying, heats, lcq's, mains is a track that doesn't get as beat up.
3. Makes racing better. Riders that get a bad start but can run up front have a better chance at getting up front. Take this last weekend with Barcia for example. Dude passed like 15 riders but still only salvaged a 7th place finish.
4. Makes spectating better. IDK about everyone else but when attending a supercross in person, it can get overwhelming by half way through a race. Lots can go unseen.
5. less lappers wouldn't be terrible either.

A 12 rider main would take the excitement level from a 10 to a 3. 

 

2
sbarrington314 3/9/2026 9:31am
3/9/2026 9:31am
sbarrington314 wrote:
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is. I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple...
12 riders finished on the lead lap Saturday. And that's about how it usually is.
I think having only a 12 rider gate would have multiple benefits.

1. Track design. The starting gate for 22 riders eats up a lot of potential floor space for other obstacles.
2. Track conditions. Less riders hitting the track in qualifying, heats, lcq's, mains is a track that doesn't get as beat up.
3. Makes racing better. Riders that get a bad start but can run up front have a better chance at getting up front. Take this last weekend with Barcia for example. Dude passed like 15 riders but still only salvaged a 7th place finish.
4. Makes spectating better. IDK about everyone else but when attending a supercross in person, it can get overwhelming by half way through a race. Lots can go unseen.
5. less lappers wouldn't be terrible either.
KennyT wrote:

A 12 rider main would take the excitement level from a 10 to a 3. 

 

I believe differently. First of all, you’d not even know it on TV besides the start. And in person I think it would help keep the concentration on the lead group and the actual racing. Less clutter. 
Have you never seen the heads up racing 1 v 1 at like an arenacross? Super exciting. 

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msp332
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msp332 3/9/2026 9:02pm
3/9/2026 9:02pm
SPYGUY wrote:
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15...
I believe that when they expanded the field to 22 riders from 20 that they went the wrong way. In my opinion there should be 15 riders max.

The lapped riders rolling around halfway through the main add nothing to the event other than potentially getting in the way of the leaders.

People will argue that it will hurt the privateers, but let's get real. No one is paying attention to them in the main event anyway.

THIS.

Qualifiers 21 and 22 get lapped 3 times.
First turn crashes. First lap crashes.
Tracks deteriorate more into rutcross.

Tell me about one battle you remember for 21st place?
 

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