Moto is on the Decline?

Tarz483
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1/14/2019 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 6:32pm
Indy mxer wrote:
You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it...
You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it would be better if all the OEM's or at least more, would make 2 strokes again. But that said it's a small part of the issue.My family has been a multi line dealer since 1974. Although I don't work there, my brother owns it now and my son and nephew both work there.

We're all into moto and even promote races here. I think the main issue is pretty straight forward. Kids just aren't into dirtbikes as much as they used to be.
Some of it is over protective parents, but most of it is kids with phones, video games and other tech. Too much time inside and parents who don't encourage them to go outside. Even little league baseball participation is down.
Hell, just drive around your neighborhood in the summer.
How many kids do you see outside throwing a football around, riding bikes, playing hoops, or just plain playing? Not near as many as there used to be. And I live in a small town where there's not as much to do.

The good news is there's still some kids addicted to mx. I know a few of them that buy bikes from my brother.
And my favorite track, LTM in Casey IL regularly gets over 400 riders at his events and he's usually packed on practice days.

Not sure what the answer is, but the cost of bikes and 2 strokes isn't a big issue, imo.
As someone said, used bikes have never been a better value. You can find really nice low hour 4 strokes all over at great prices. And if you want new and don't mind a leftover, you can get a killer deal on those all the time
Bry145 wrote:
Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll...
Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll on our demographics, and how many more motocrossers may we have if Roe vs. Wade did not happen?

Correlation is not causation. But one cannot ignore that the wholesale swich to four-strokes in 2004 occured within 4 years of the collapse.

If you don't think four-strokes are a big problem, just imagine if all minibikes went four-stroke and prices raised commensurate with big bike four-stroke price gains (including maintenance). How many parents could afford that and keep coming to the races?



Indy mxer wrote:
Dirt bikes have never been better quality, and nice used well taken care of bikes are a great value.. That's not what's hurting the sport. Entry...
Dirt bikes have never been better quality, and nice used well taken care of bikes are a great value..

That's not what's hurting the sport. Entry is still not that expensive. There's gear deals all over the place.

Nice PW 50's sell for $600 to $800 all day long if you look.
Nice used 65's and 85's are very affordable as well, and have never been better built..
I also see really good deals on nice 250F's with low hours.

And as I said, new leftovers are always available in every brand and are priced very low.
My brother has a new leftover 18 RMZ 450 on his floor right now you could buy for around $6600. That's a state of the art 4 stroke for less than a new 250F.
That said, I do think having more 2 strokes, especially 125's available would help. Going from an 85 to a 250F is not good, imo.

Now, can the cost have an effect? Yes. But I think that's a bit overrated. Most parents I see aren't afraid to spend money on their kids, just not for dirt bikes.

Sierra Ranger said it pretty well:
"No doubt. Seems like kids are all inside animals these days. That's why I get my daughter outside as much as I can. But inactive parents will lead to inactive kids. The paycheck-to-paycheck economy can't be helping either."
Think of people that have Never tried riding though
Do you think they are gonna pay that
Even if it is a good deal $6600
Is still a lot of money.
So people say buy a play bike like a CRF230 or something
But where do you ride it ?
In a lot of states its Track or nothing unless you own property.
And if someone shows up at the track on a crf 230
They look silly, and probably only get a couple laps in.
Point being its Really not a easy sport to get into unless
Your parents or uncles are into it.
And if someone wants to get into it after age of 8-9
It gets a lot harder
Its not bad if you get in young 50cc
But getting in on an 85 or up is being thrown in with fast bikes and pretty good riders and big jumps if you were a true beginner
Highflier
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1/14/2019 6:19pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 6:21pm
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day.
I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday morning at signup when I saw the days class lineup...28 classes.

The factors listed in this thread all add up, death by a 1000 cuts.

I ride practice days still, but moved to offload in '04 and enjoy it much better.
I could give two poops about a trophy, I want to ride.


4
Indy mxer
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1/14/2019 6:20pm
Bry145 wrote:
Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll...
Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll on our demographics, and how many more motocrossers may we have if Roe vs. Wade did not happen?

Correlation is not causation. But one cannot ignore that the wholesale swich to four-strokes in 2004 occured within 4 years of the collapse.

If you don't think four-strokes are a big problem, just imagine if all minibikes went four-stroke and prices raised commensurate with big bike four-stroke price gains (including maintenance). How many parents could afford that and keep coming to the races?



Indy mxer wrote:
Dirt bikes have never been better quality, and nice used well taken care of bikes are a great value.. That's not what's hurting the sport. Entry...
Dirt bikes have never been better quality, and nice used well taken care of bikes are a great value..

That's not what's hurting the sport. Entry is still not that expensive. There's gear deals all over the place.

Nice PW 50's sell for $600 to $800 all day long if you look.
Nice used 65's and 85's are very affordable as well, and have never been better built..
I also see really good deals on nice 250F's with low hours.

And as I said, new leftovers are always available in every brand and are priced very low.
My brother has a new leftover 18 RMZ 450 on his floor right now you could buy for around $6600. That's a state of the art 4 stroke for less than a new 250F.
That said, I do think having more 2 strokes, especially 125's available would help. Going from an 85 to a 250F is not good, imo.

Now, can the cost have an effect? Yes. But I think that's a bit overrated. Most parents I see aren't afraid to spend money on their kids, just not for dirt bikes.

Sierra Ranger said it pretty well:
"No doubt. Seems like kids are all inside animals these days. That's why I get my daughter outside as much as I can. But inactive parents will lead to inactive kids. The paycheck-to-paycheck economy can't be helping either."
Tarz483 wrote:
Think of people that have Never tried riding though Do you think they are gonna pay that Even if it is a good deal $6600 Is...
Think of people that have Never tried riding though
Do you think they are gonna pay that
Even if it is a good deal $6600
Is still a lot of money.
So people say buy a play bike like a CRF230 or something
But where do you ride it ?
In a lot of states its Track or nothing unless you own property.
And if someone shows up at the track on a crf 230
They look silly, and probably only get a couple laps in.
Point being its Really not a easy sport to get into unless
Your parents or uncles are into it.
And if someone wants to get into it after age of 8-9
It gets a lot harder
Its not bad if you get in young 50cc
But getting in on an 85 or up is being thrown in with fast bikes and pretty good riders and big jumps if you were a true beginner
Well, I guess it depends on where you live. Plenty of places to ride around here, including 2 huge State Recreation off road riding area's. As well as a number of mx tracks.
But you're right. I can see that as a problem for sure if there's not many places to ride.
1
Indy mxer
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1/14/2019 6:29pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 6:32pm
Highflier wrote:
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day. I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday...
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day.
I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday morning at signup when I saw the days class lineup...28 classes.

The factors listed in this thread all add up, death by a 1000 cuts.

I ride practice days still, but moved to offload in '04 and enjoy it much better.
I could give two poops about a trophy, I want to ride.


That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes".
Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol

But as a promoter it's a double edge sword. So many guys want to ride 2 or 3 classes that you need that many. Plus, the promoters aren't getting rich (unless you have an outdoor National). So they need all the entries they can get. Hence, multiple classes.

I think that's why off road is getting so popular. You know exactly when your race starts, ride 2 or 3 hours and go home.

Not sure there's a good answer.

The Shop

Tarz483
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Mankato, MN, USA
1/14/2019 6:40pm
Highflier wrote:
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day. I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday...
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day.
I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday morning at signup when I saw the days class lineup...28 classes.

The factors listed in this thread all add up, death by a 1000 cuts.

I ride practice days still, but moved to offload in '04 and enjoy it much better.
I could give two poops about a trophy, I want to ride.


Indy mxer wrote:
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes". Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol But as a...
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes".
Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol

But as a promoter it's a double edge sword. So many guys want to ride 2 or 3 classes that you need that many. Plus, the promoters aren't getting rich (unless you have an outdoor National). So they need all the entries they can get. Hence, multiple classes.

I think that's why off road is getting so popular. You know exactly when your race starts, ride 2 or 3 hours and go home.

Not sure there's a good answer.
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help?
Or if any tracks would be willing to try that.
Indy mxer
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1/14/2019 6:51pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 6:59pm
Highflier wrote:
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day. I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday...
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day.
I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday morning at signup when I saw the days class lineup...28 classes.

The factors listed in this thread all add up, death by a 1000 cuts.

I ride practice days still, but moved to offload in '04 and enjoy it much better.
I could give two poops about a trophy, I want to ride.


Indy mxer wrote:
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes". Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol But as a...
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes".
Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol

But as a promoter it's a double edge sword. So many guys want to ride 2 or 3 classes that you need that many. Plus, the promoters aren't getting rich (unless you have an outdoor National). So they need all the entries they can get. Hence, multiple classes.

I think that's why off road is getting so popular. You know exactly when your race starts, ride 2 or 3 hours and go home.

Not sure there's a good answer.
Tarz483 wrote:
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help? Or if any tracks would be willing to...
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help?
Or if any tracks would be willing to try that.
That doesn't work for a few reasons. It's hard enough to get enough workers and flaggers for one day, let alone two.
And your asking for the workers to give up a whole weekend. Plus you basically double your work (think track prep) and expenses (labor cost), but the income stays the same.

That's why a lot of track do an open practice on Saturday and race on Sunday. Not as much prep, way less labor and very few expenses. It's mostly profit.

About 15 years ago a few tracks around here tried running a split program. All the youth classes in the morning then about 1pm the rest of the classes. The idea was that you didn't have to be there all day. Some would alternate the sessions so the same riders weren't always the early shift. But for some reason it didn't work out.
I do know one issue was the promoter had to open sign up twice, but I don't think that was the main reason it didn't work.
akillerwombat
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1/14/2019 6:53pm
Think of where you first rode a bike.

Does that dirt lot, hills, etc. still exist?

I know mine doesn't.
2
1
1/14/2019 6:56pm
Nope. The 3 places I used to play ride at are no more.
1
Bry145
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1/14/2019 7:02pm
Indy mxer wrote:
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes". Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol But as a...
That's definitely a factor as well. I hear that a lot. "too many classes".
Everybody wants to cut classes, just not theirs. lol

But as a promoter it's a double edge sword. So many guys want to ride 2 or 3 classes that you need that many. Plus, the promoters aren't getting rich (unless you have an outdoor National). So they need all the entries they can get. Hence, multiple classes.

I think that's why off road is getting so popular. You know exactly when your race starts, ride 2 or 3 hours and go home.

Not sure there's a good answer.
Tarz483 wrote:
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help? Or if any tracks would be willing to...
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help?
Or if any tracks would be willing to try that.
Indy mxer wrote:
That doesn't work for a few reasons. It's hard enough to get enough workers and flaggers for one day, let alone two. And your asking for...
That doesn't work for a few reasons. It's hard enough to get enough workers and flaggers for one day, let alone two.
And your asking for the workers to give up a whole weekend. Plus you basically double your work (think track prep) and expenses (labor cost), but the income stays the same.

That's why a lot of track do an open practice on Saturday and race on Sunday. Not as much prep, way less labor and very few expenses. It's mostly profit.

About 15 years ago a few tracks around here tried running a split program. All the youth classes in the morning then about 1pm the rest of the classes. The idea was that you didn't have to be there all day. Some would alternate the sessions so the same riders weren't always the early shift. But for some reason it didn't work out.
I do know one issue was the promoter had to open sign up twice, but I don't think that was the main reason it didn't work.
What about running one long moto, reducing time spent staging and such?

And one can leave once their moto runs?

Perhaps run the biggest classes first. Those are the most important ones, as there are more paying customers in those classes. For heavens sake get the number of classes down to 15-20. 30+ is riduculous at a local event and drags out the day.

A long moto could be 20 minutes. Combine poorly attended classes on the same gate or stagger.

Do two 20s in a day and that is plenty of moto.
Bry145
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1/14/2019 7:17pm
Indy mxer wrote:
Oh, and one last thing then I'll shut up. Don't underestimate the affect child obesity has on sports, especially something so physically demanding like mx. It's...
Oh, and one last thing then I'll shut up.
Don't underestimate the affect child obesity has on sports, especially something so physically demanding like mx.
It's worse than it's ever been and is becoming an epidemic

There's a lot of kids who physically couldn't do it, even if they wanted to.

God bless all you parents who keep your kids active. You're setting them up for a more healthy, active life!

.
The scary thing about child obesity and declining birth rates:
Where will we find our future military recruits?



1
1
Indy mxer
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1/14/2019 7:21pm
Tarz483 wrote:
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help? Or if any tracks would be willing to...
If thats such an issue i wonder if doing half on saturday and half on sunday would help?
Or if any tracks would be willing to try that.
Indy mxer wrote:
That doesn't work for a few reasons. It's hard enough to get enough workers and flaggers for one day, let alone two. And your asking for...
That doesn't work for a few reasons. It's hard enough to get enough workers and flaggers for one day, let alone two.
And your asking for the workers to give up a whole weekend. Plus you basically double your work (think track prep) and expenses (labor cost), but the income stays the same.

That's why a lot of track do an open practice on Saturday and race on Sunday. Not as much prep, way less labor and very few expenses. It's mostly profit.

About 15 years ago a few tracks around here tried running a split program. All the youth classes in the morning then about 1pm the rest of the classes. The idea was that you didn't have to be there all day. Some would alternate the sessions so the same riders weren't always the early shift. But for some reason it didn't work out.
I do know one issue was the promoter had to open sign up twice, but I don't think that was the main reason it didn't work.
Bry145 wrote:
What about running one long moto, reducing time spent staging and such? And one can leave once their moto runs? Perhaps run the biggest classes first...
What about running one long moto, reducing time spent staging and such?

And one can leave once their moto runs?

Perhaps run the biggest classes first. Those are the most important ones, as there are more paying customers in those classes. For heavens sake get the number of classes down to 15-20. 30+ is riduculous at a local event and drags out the day.

A long moto could be 20 minutes. Combine poorly attended classes on the same gate or stagger.

Do two 20s in a day and that is plenty of moto.
Be interesting to see opinions on that.
As far as the classes go, I think we have it down to about 22 when we do a race. That's about the minimum you can get to and still have it where every rider has an opportunity to ride a second class.

As I said, every rider wants less classes. Just don't cut theirs.

Bottom line, we just need more kids riding dirt bikes. lol
Bry145
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1/14/2019 7:22pm
Highflier wrote:
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day. I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday...
Moto racing died for me due to so little actual riding on race day.
I raced for 19 years and quit at 6:45 on a Sunday morning at signup when I saw the days class lineup...28 classes.

The factors listed in this thread all add up, death by a 1000 cuts.

I ride practice days still, but moved to offload in '04 and enjoy it much better.
I could give two poops about a trophy, I want to ride.


It may be a death of 1000 cuts, but the two largest gashes were four-strokes and changing demographics.

Demographics and what the OEMs offer have the turning radius of a cruise ship. They cannot be changed in the near future, if ever.

Bry145
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1/14/2019 7:30pm
Indy mxer wrote:
Be interesting to see opinions on that. As far as the classes go, I think we have it down to about 22 when we do a...
Be interesting to see opinions on that.
As far as the classes go, I think we have it down to about 22 when we do a race. That's about the minimum you can get to and still have it where every rider has an opportunity to ride a second class.

As I said, every rider wants less classes. Just don't cut theirs.

Bottom line, we just need more kids riding dirt bikes. lol
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



1
Tarz483
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1/14/2019 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 7:37pm
Think of where you first rode a bike.

Does that dirt lot, hills, etc. still exist?

I know mine doesn't.
Nope definitely not, All houses, A golf course , business etc
Urban sprawl.
akillerwombat
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1/14/2019 7:51pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



God damn man, you're really digging your heels in on this "blame women for the decline of motocross" theory you've got.


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BR8ES
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1/14/2019 7:51pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 7:53pm
When there are 5-8 riders in many classes, there is no real reason why they can't be combined instead of eliminated. Pretty dumb to see a single gate of less than 10, then another, then another. Combine and gives an extra lap or 2.

This may be my last year of racing MX exclusively before I go off road. All day and lots of money for so little ride time sure does rub many people wrong and push them away. MX with kids is often a heritage thing and if it isn't in the bloodline, then it doesn't happen. Too many other interests these days too and kids are soft because parents are self absorbed and lazy
1
Bry145
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1/14/2019 8:08pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



God damn man, you're really digging your heels in on this "blame women for the decline of motocross" theory you've got. [img]https://media.giphy.com/media/119SFXjoMsax6o/giphy.gif[/img]
God damn man, you're really digging your heels in on this "blame women for the decline of motocross" theory you've got.


I'm not blaming women. I'm blaming demographics.

But women have to accept some blame for our changing demographics. And these changes are hurting the number of children entering the sport.

If the sport is to survive it will need new participants to replace the ones that are being lost due to age or other reasons.



3
RCMXracing
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1/14/2019 8:13pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



Grind your axe somewhere else Al Bundy. SMH. Incel maybe? Lol
akillerwombat
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1/14/2019 8:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 8:15pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Nope definitely not, All houses, A golf course , business etc
Urban sprawl.
Exactly.

We can't blame "soft kids / parents" like everyone wants to because sports like skateboarding, bmx, scootering, etc. continue to grow exponentially every year. While I do think cost of entry does play it's part today more than it did 10 years ago I think the the most obvious issue is accessibility to places to engage in the sport.

I don't know about everyone else but I didn't get into the sport by seeing Supercross on TV and heading straight to a track. I discovered bikes because someone was riding the hills behind my house. I rode my BMX bike out there, made friends with the owner, and started riding those hills. Then I got a bike, told everyone about it, and took people to the hills to try out riding for themselves. After a year all of us in the neighborhood had bikes and we spent countless hours riding spots that are long gone due to urban sprawl.

I mentioned it already in this thread but if we want to plug the leak we have to embrace electric. You'll still have those people who will protest bikes because of their destructive nature but the noise problem – a huge problem in our sport – is gone, and when that noise problem is gone you can instantly re-open and create new riding areas. Hell, with an electric bike anyone with a couple acres on their hands instantly has a fun spot for their friends (and more importantly their friends kids) to ride.

This is a sport that grows by word of mouth / shared experiences... we have to make it easier for people to experience it with their friends and family.
2
ob
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1/14/2019 8:14pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



That's fucking retarded
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twizzler
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1/14/2019 8:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 8:38pm
I put a partially significant blame on parents. Indy mxer has a valid point. Kids are not outside playing as previous generations did. They are not as active in all aspects. Parents put the electric babysitter on their kids as infants, yes the cell phone and iPad. Children become addicted with the immediate entertainment that comes with a mobile phone. I travel all over and witness kids at the dinner tables glued to their phones as infants and older. See a kid not behaving and the first thing some parents do is give their child a phone to watch YouTube vids or play games. Even kids enter a place with their head buried in a phone and they never look away, ever. Lazy parents produce lazy kids. Overwhelming overweight to obese adults and teens and children everywhere you look. Fast food on every corner, entertainment at their fingertips. Add in that most parents perceive dirt bikes as dangerous and overprotective of their children. Football is on the decline as well. So is little league baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, volleyball golf, track, etc. We live in a social media and viral virtual world like no time like any other in history. Kids don't know any different as it's all they've known. And I don't see it changing, it will only become worse.
Urban sprawl hasn't helped neither. And neighbors don't want to hear loud dirt bikes or live near dust. People complain about everything these days it seems like. My HOA banned kids riding bikes, skateboarding and general playing within my neighborhood on our streets and common areas. Because people complained about kids playing and being noisy, etc. more reason for kids to just stay inside.
Cost of bikes doesn't hold merit, as parents and adults spend their money on other expensive items. Some families cell phone bills are more per month than riding or maintaining a dirt bike.
I got into dirt bikes and moto because my childhood friends brother had a mx bike and raced. When I was at their house I saw him riding and thought it was so bad ass. My hometown had several mx racers back in the late 70's to early 80's. One kids parents owned a shop. He raced and was state champion and became nationally ranked as Amateur national ranked #5 before LL's existed. Several kids in our town idolized him and wanted to be like him. So we all were fortunate that our parents knew of him and his shop family and many of us kids and best friends had mx bikes. And we all rode together and traveled to races together. We even had a we'll know mx track in our town. So the sport was well known and people embraced it an introduced their kids to it. That same mx track is still there. The motorcycle shop is still there. Times have changed, racer turnout their is basically nonexistent now to where back then it was a full house. People that didn't even ride came out to watch the racing. That era is gone. Hard to pinpoint why exactly but many of us have valid reasons why. It's not just one reason, it's many.
1
BobPA
Posts
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USA
1/14/2019 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 8:32pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Nope definitely not, All houses, A golf course , business etc
Urban sprawl.
Exactly. We can't blame "soft kids / parents" like everyone wants to because sports like skateboarding, bmx, scootering, etc. continue to grow exponentially every year. While...
Exactly.

We can't blame "soft kids / parents" like everyone wants to because sports like skateboarding, bmx, scootering, etc. continue to grow exponentially every year. While I do think cost of entry does play it's part today more than it did 10 years ago I think the the most obvious issue is accessibility to places to engage in the sport.

I don't know about everyone else but I didn't get into the sport by seeing Supercross on TV and heading straight to a track. I discovered bikes because someone was riding the hills behind my house. I rode my BMX bike out there, made friends with the owner, and started riding those hills. Then I got a bike, told everyone about it, and took people to the hills to try out riding for themselves. After a year all of us in the neighborhood had bikes and we spent countless hours riding spots that are long gone due to urban sprawl.

I mentioned it already in this thread but if we want to plug the leak we have to embrace electric. You'll still have those people who will protest bikes because of their destructive nature but the noise problem – a huge problem in our sport – is gone, and when that noise problem is gone you can instantly re-open and create new riding areas. Hell, with an electric bike anyone with a couple acres on their hands instantly has a fun spot for their friends (and more importantly their friends kids) to ride.

This is a sport that grows by word of mouth / shared experiences... we have to make it easier for people to experience it with their friends and family.
BMX and skateboarding are on a massive decline from years passed. Ask any local bike/skateshop that is not in CA...

I agree that electric is the next big thing. But, I do not think it will help to create riding ares. Dust is also a giant factor, and e-bikes do nothing to help that aspect. There is also no money in MX. Land is more valuable being anything but an MX track.
Bry145
Posts
366
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Bridgeville, PA, USA
1/14/2019 8:31pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



ob wrote:
That's fucking retarded
You're right.

Roe vs. Wade is awesome and has done a lot of good. We should expand the welfare state and raise taxes. We should pay women to not marry and have kids. Remove all immigration laws. All are welcome. Remove labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

And all of this will make motocross flourish. How could it not?

I hope you don't vote! Wink







1
2
Tarz483
Posts
6344
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Location
Mankato, MN, USA
1/14/2019 8:32pm
Damn The HOA banned Kids from Skateboarding and then just from playing in the neighborhood, geeze what is this world coming to Welcome to America land of the free lol i would be moving no joke
early
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9906
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Location
University Heights, OH, USA
1/14/2019 8:33pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 8:47pm
Bry145 wrote:
I'm not blaming women. I'm blaming demographics. But women have to accept some blame for our changing demographics. And these changes are hurting the number of...
I'm not blaming women. I'm blaming demographics.

But women have to accept some blame for our changing demographics. And these changes are hurting the number of children entering the sport.

If the sport is to survive it will need new participants to replace the ones that are being lost due to age or other reasons.



The birthrate isn't that low that it is really anything to worry about, plus there about 7 billion people that wouldn't mind becoming new Americans.

The last 50 years has seen family planning dominated mainly by economic conditions. People are having the families they can afford for the most part. I don't really see how handing more kids to people who don't have the means or motivation for them provides the means to buy them a dirt bike and everything involved.

Earlier you mentioned how those without kids shouldn't pay education taxes, so you want to make kids even more expensive to raise? Not to mention probably 95% of the people you interact with everyday were educated under the public system, I know I don't want to run into a bunch of less educated people, we take our high literacy rates in math and English for granted sometimes.

Once the wealth accumulated by the Boomer generation filters down to the younger generation birth rates will increase and those kids will have better lives if there are activities available that don't involve an electronic screen. We need more public land available for various recreation activities that don't involve a ball, since trespassing riding isn't likely to be a viable option for most kids in the future, and parents are strecthed thinner financially.

Edit: it also seems that kids and adults today are less interested in things that take time to master. I'm not sure but I think school music programs are seeing a decline in numbers (it's really hard to learn to play an instrument well). If it takes years to learn people don't want it. That's why a 60k truck or BMW is a better investment than a 10k dirtbike to some, you can be a master at looking cool tomorrow.
1
Bry145
Posts
366
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Location
Bridgeville, PA, USA
1/14/2019 8:37pm
twizzler wrote:
I put a partially significant blame on parents. Indy mxer has a valid point. Kids are not outside playing as previous generations did. They are not...
I put a partially significant blame on parents. Indy mxer has a valid point. Kids are not outside playing as previous generations did. They are not as active in all aspects. Parents put the electric babysitter on their kids as infants, yes the cell phone and iPad. Children become addicted with the immediate entertainment that comes with a mobile phone. I travel all over and witness kids at the dinner tables glued to their phones as infants and older. See a kid not behaving and the first thing some parents do is give their child a phone to watch YouTube vids or play games. Even kids enter a place with their head buried in a phone and they never look away, ever. Lazy parents produce lazy kids. Overwhelming overweight to obese adults and teens and children everywhere you look. Fast food on every corner, entertainment at their fingertips. Add in that most parents perceive dirt bikes as dangerous and overprotective of their children. Football is on the decline as well. So is little league baseball, basketball, hockey, tennis, volleyball golf, track, etc. We live in a social media and viral virtual world like no time like any other in history. Kids don't know any different as it's all they've known. And I don't see it changing, it will only become worse.
Urban sprawl hasn't helped neither. And neighbors don't want to hear loud dirt bikes or live near dust. People complain about everything these days it seems like. My HOA banned kids riding bikes, skateboarding and general playing within my neighborhood on our streets and common areas. Because people complained about kids playing and being noisy, etc. more reason for kids to just stay inside.
Cost of bikes doesn't hold merit, as parents and adults spend their money on other expensive items. Some families cell phone bills are more per month than riding or maintaining a dirt bike.
I got into dirt bikes and moto because my childhood friends brother had a mx bike and raced. When I was at their house I saw him riding and thought it was so bad ass. My hometown had several mx racers back in the late 70's to early 80's. One kids parents owned a shop. He raced and was state champion and became nationally ranked as Amateur national ranked #5 before LL's existed. Several kids in our town idolized him and wanted to be like him. So we all were fortunate that our parents knew of him and his shop family and many of us kids and best friends had mx bikes. And we all rode together and traveled to races together. We even had a we'll know mx track in our town. So the sport was well known and people embraced it an introduced their kids to it. That same mx track is still there. The motorcycle shop is still there. Times have changed, racer turnout their is basically nonexistent now to where back then it was a full house. People that didn't even ride came out to watch the racing. That era is gone. Hard to pinpoint why exactly but many of us have valid reasons why. It's not just one reason, it's many.
"My HOA banned kids riding bikes, skateboarding and general playing within my neighborhood on our streets and common areas. Because people complained about kids playing and being noisy, etc. more reason for kids to just stay inside."

This is terrible. Isn't the whole reason of buying a home in a nice neighborhood and paying a HOA fee to ensure that kids can play in a nice environment if they wish.

I'd violate the rule on purpose, and tell the complainers to "shove it." If they do not like kids or the noise they can buy earplugs and stay inside. Or better yet take a long walk on a short pier.






1
ob
Posts
1751
Joined
3/14/2010
Location
Cardiff, CA, USA
1/14/2019 8:39pm
Bry145 wrote:
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds...
Take away Roe vs. Wade and reduce the size of the welfare state. Reduce taxes proportionate to the reduction in spending. This would provide more funds for recreation.

Implement a bachelerotte tax to provide an incentive for women to marry and reproduce.

Enforce immigration laws. Enforce labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

That will result in more kids and thus more kids on dirt bikes.

Good luck!



ob wrote:
That's fucking retarded
Bry145 wrote:
You're right. Roe vs. Wade is awesome and has done a lot of good. We should expand the welfare state and raise taxes. We should pay...
You're right.

Roe vs. Wade is awesome and has done a lot of good. We should expand the welfare state and raise taxes. We should pay women to not marry and have kids. Remove all immigration laws. All are welcome. Remove labor laws regarding illegal aliens.

And all of this will make motocross flourish. How could it not?

I hope you don't vote! Wink







You want to lower taxes on yourself but tax women for not getting married and not having babies? Typical right wing shit. That will for sure grow moto.
1
2
Bry145
Posts
366
Joined
6/12/2013
Location
Bridgeville, PA, USA
1/14/2019 8:46pm
early wrote:
The birthrate isn't that low that it is really anything to worry about, plus there about 7 billion people that wouldn't mind becoming new Americans. The...
The birthrate isn't that low that it is really anything to worry about, plus there about 7 billion people that wouldn't mind becoming new Americans.

The last 50 years has seen family planning dominated mainly by economic conditions. People are having the families they can afford for the most part. I don't really see how handing more kids to people who don't have the means or motivation for them provides the means to buy them a dirt bike and everything involved.

Earlier you mentioned how those without kids shouldn't pay education taxes, so you want to make kids even more expensive to raise? Not to mention probably 95% of the people you interact with everyday were educated under the public system, I know I don't want to run into a bunch of less educated people, we take our high literacy rates in math and English for granted sometimes.

Once the wealth accumulated by the Boomer generation filters down to the younger generation birth rates will increase and those kids will have better lives if there are activities available that don't involve an electronic screen. We need more public land available for various recreation activities that don't involve a ball, since trespassing riding isn't likely to be a viable option for most kids in the future, and parents are strecthed thinner financially.

Edit: it also seems that kids and adults today are less interested in things that take time to master. I'm not sure but I think school music programs are seeing a decline in numbers (it's really hard to learn to play an instrument well). If it takes years to learn people don't want it. That's why a 60k truck or BMW is a better investment than a 10k dirtbike to some, you can be a master at looking cool tomorrow.
It's not that the birth rate is low. The problem is it keeps going down at the same time that we have more and more older people living longer and longer. It's a math problem given that we have Social Security, Medicare, and such.

I think public schools waste a lot of money and we would be better off without them. I think the parents should pay for K-12 and some sort of public fund could go towards universities and/or trade schools.

The Boomer generation will live long enough to spend every dime they have, as well as money stolen from their children and grandchildren via Social Security, Medicare, and pensions.

The Boomers were the most prosperous generation in history, and won't scale back spending in retirement. They will leave little for their kids and grandchilden, and their homes will likely lose value as younger people cannot afford them. There will be no demand for suburban McMansions and 10K/year property taxes.

All of these have some bearing on motocross and money that could go to moto. Sadly, there are no solutions other than George Carlin's bury everyone alive at 65 plan.
1
early
Posts
9906
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
1/14/2019 9:01pm
Bry145 wrote:
It's not that the birth rate is low. The problem is it keeps going down at the same time that we have more and more older...
It's not that the birth rate is low. The problem is it keeps going down at the same time that we have more and more older people living longer and longer. It's a math problem given that we have Social Security, Medicare, and such.

I think public schools waste a lot of money and we would be better off without them. I think the parents should pay for K-12 and some sort of public fund could go towards universities and/or trade schools.

The Boomer generation will live long enough to spend every dime they have, as well as money stolen from their children and grandchildren via Social Security, Medicare, and pensions.

The Boomers were the most prosperous generation in history, and won't scale back spending in retirement. They will leave little for their kids and grandchilden, and their homes will likely lose value as younger people cannot afford them. There will be no demand for suburban McMansions and 10K/year property taxes.

All of these have some bearing on motocross and money that could go to moto. Sadly, there are no solutions other than George Carlin's bury everyone alive at 65 plan.
Big fan of Logan's Run society?

You are right about the mcmansions, but money the elderly spend is transfered to the young at a higher rate as they are mainly paying for medical and living services not goods so more of the expenditures are going to health and care providers.

The greater threat is that education and opportunity wealth is lost to foreign lands. Corporate greed is causing a knowledge suck out of this country. Younger people in America are not learning the ropes of how to develop, produce and maintain material items like they used to. Bicycles and dirtbikes were the gateway into this thought process for alot of us and it's something that is desperately needed today.
1
1/14/2019 9:04pm
you guys dug up a 3 year old thread to piss and moan about politicking?
1

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