Moto is on the Decline?

early wrote:

Maybe a lower barrier of entry to dirtbiking is needed and this looks different than what we have today. Maybe it's something you can own in...

Maybe a lower barrier of entry to dirtbiking is needed and this looks different than what we have today. Maybe it's something you can own in an apartment, transport with a small crossover vehicle (I loathe that term), much easier to maintain, slower and safer. Master this and step up in commitment to a traditional bike or keep it and have fun. Maybe Harley is on to something.

Tarz483 wrote:

Is this a Harley?

Tarz483 wrote:

So Reasons for decline. 1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing, Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry...

So Reasons for decline.
1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing,
Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry fee's.
Imo cost just to ride somewhere/practice is a big one when i was a kid (early 90's) we could ride on vacant land everywhere (trespassing but no one seemed to care) i would ride every day all summer and every day after school. If i had to pay just to have a place to ride that would have been the end of it, so i think having no where to ride other than paid practice days is a big one personally!
2.There are less Riding area's, not as many tracks as there used to be, almost no where to ride near large populated cities unless you live in the south west.
3. Perception of the sport is that its dangerous and extreme, and its true that jumps have gotten bigger and bikes have gotten easier to ride faster. Which increased the severity of injuries and danger.
4. Health insurance costs have gone up, plus some adults quit riding for fear of injury and fear of not being able to support their family in the event of a injury.
5. Lack of interest due to tech. Computers, phones, Video games etc.
This one i have a hard time believing personally, yes kids like these things but i still think 50% or more would want to ride dirt bikes but arent being given the opportunity due to the other reasons.
6. The sport changing from 2 stroke to 4 stroke.
Imo there is a place for both. But i do think every track should offer some 125 classes as in 125 only not 125 vs 250f.
7. People switching to off road racing or just riding practice days Due to not enough track time on race days.
Did i miss anything?

Tarz483 wrote:

So Reasons for decline. 1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing, Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry...

So Reasons for decline.
1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing,
Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry fee's.
Imo cost just to ride somewhere/practice is a big one when i was a kid (early 90's) we could ride on vacant land everywhere (trespassing but no one seemed to care) i would ride every day all summer and every day after school. If i had to pay just to have a place to ride that would have been the end of it, so i think having no where to ride other than paid practice days is a big one personally!
2.There are less Riding area's, not as many tracks as there used to be, almost no where to ride near large populated cities unless you live in the south west.
3. Perception of the sport is that its dangerous and extreme, and its true that jumps have gotten bigger and bikes have gotten easier to ride faster. Which increased the severity of injuries and danger.
4. Health insurance costs have gone up, plus some adults quit riding for fear of injury and fear of not being able to support their family in the event of a injury.
5. Lack of interest due to tech. Computers, phones, Video games etc.
This one i have a hard time believing personally, yes kids like these things but i still think 50% or more would want to ride dirt bikes but arent being given the opportunity due to the other reasons.
6. The sport changing from 2 stroke to 4 stroke.
Imo there is a place for both. But i do think every track should offer some 125 classes as in 125 only not 125 vs 250f.
7. People switching to off road racing or just riding practice days Due to not enough track time on race days.
Did i miss anything?

ama530 wrote:

To add to your list. 8. Loretta Lynn's has destroyed amateur racing. We have professional novice riders now that have their parents home school them so...

To add to your list.
8. Loretta Lynn's has destroyed amateur racing. We have professional novice riders now that have their parents home school them so they can ride 24/7. They can't read or write but they can ride a dirtbike. A new racer lines up for the first time and gets lapped twice in 4 laps by these future Walmart greeters. That new racer figures this is the norm and calls it quits after their first race. He tells his buddies that it isn't worth racing because of this. Race entries tank.

Tarz483 wrote:

So Reasons for decline. 1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing, Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry...

So Reasons for decline.
1.Cost have gone up. Cost of Bike's, Cost of gear, cost of racing,
Cost of just Riding somewhere, getting there gas entry fee's.
Imo cost just to ride somewhere/practice is a big one when i was a kid (early 90's) we could ride on vacant land everywhere (trespassing but no one seemed to care) i would ride every day all summer and every day after school. If i had to pay just to have a place to ride that would have been the end of it, so i think having no where to ride other than paid practice days is a big one personally!
2.There are less Riding area's, not as many tracks as there used to be, almost no where to ride near large populated cities unless you live in the south west.
3. Perception of the sport is that its dangerous and extreme, and its true that jumps have gotten bigger and bikes have gotten easier to ride faster. Which increased the severity of injuries and danger.
4. Health insurance costs have gone up, plus some adults quit riding for fear of injury and fear of not being able to support their family in the event of a injury.
5. Lack of interest due to tech. Computers, phones, Video games etc.
This one i have a hard time believing personally, yes kids like these things but i still think 50% or more would want to ride dirt bikes but arent being given the opportunity due to the other reasons.
6. The sport changing from 2 stroke to 4 stroke.
Imo there is a place for both. But i do think every track should offer some 125 classes as in 125 only not 125 vs 250f.
7. People switching to off road racing or just riding practice days Due to not enough track time on race days.
Did i miss anything?

ama530 wrote:

To add to your list. 8. Loretta Lynn's has destroyed amateur racing. We have professional novice riders now that have their parents home school them so...

To add to your list.
8. Loretta Lynn's has destroyed amateur racing. We have professional novice riders now that have their parents home school them so they can ride 24/7. They can't read or write but they can ride a dirtbike. A new racer lines up for the first time and gets lapped twice in 4 laps by these future Walmart greeters. That new racer figures this is the norm and calls it quits after their first race. He tells his buddies that it isn't worth racing because of this. Race entries tank.

RCMXracing wrote:

Y’all got it covered. Nicely done. Would like to see dealerships/manufacturers get more involved. I suspect they don’t because dirt is only a small portion of...

Y’all got it covered. Nicely done.

Would like to see dealerships/manufacturers get more involved. I suspect they don’t because dirt is only a small portion of sales.

An idea: As an example what if a Honda dealership were to pool money with other local franchises and open riding areas/tracks and offer free instruction and entry fees for 2 years. The facility would be open to all, but if you bought a Honda bike you would get the perks. Obviously this would be part of the promotions to sell dirt bikes.

Tracks themselves can do more. Youth league motocross is a successful concept.

I’m very concerned about the future. When the 70’s - 90’s generation dies off so will the influence on their kids and grandchildren.

JWRM wrote:

Work hard and sack up. Local trails and tracks are always packed. Moto in 2019 rules.

early wrote:

Maybe a lower barrier of entry to dirtbiking is needed and this looks different than what we have today. Maybe it's something you can own in...

Maybe a lower barrier of entry to dirtbiking is needed and this looks different than what we have today. Maybe it's something you can own in an apartment, transport with a small crossover vehicle (I loathe that term), much easier to maintain, slower and safer. Master this and step up in commitment to a traditional bike or keep it and have fun. Maybe Harley is on to something.

Bry145 wrote:

That's part of the appeal of MTB and e-bikes. One can store one in an apartment, no truck or van is needed to transport, and one...

That's part of the appeal of MTB and e-bikes. One can store one in an apartment, no truck or van is needed to transport, and one can moto around the neighborhood or even commute to work. Maintenance is inexpensive and no fuel or lubes are needed (besides chain lube).

Cool video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M06kbLI4Ow


I love moto, but if the money isn't there one has to find an alternative or substitute to get that two-wheel fix. I rode my MTB today in the snow and had a ball. I crashed going down a hill over some slippery tree roots. It would have been funny if it wasn't me.

johnnypotato123 wrote:

I honestly think the problem with the sport is just how expensive everything is, obviously bike prices seem to keep rising but so does everything else...

I honestly think the problem with the sport is just how expensive everything is, obviously bike prices seem to keep rising but so does everything else. I mean you're probably looking at $150 at the least for the gear alone, on top of that you need to buy a helmet but even though there are $200 helmets with the same certifications as the top of the line ones but are supposedly worse. Boots $200+, parts are expensive, very few tracks so you have to drive a ways to get anywhere to ride, unless you're lucky.

My point is you can't expect much growth when the sport is virtually non accessible, especially when you can buy a soccer ball, baseball and bat, basketball for just a small fraction of the price. Then there's the fact that most sports won't put you in the hospital but with motocross there is a pretty good chance you could end up there.

Another big thing I think is with most sports if you're good enough you will be given a college education, with motocross if you don't drop out of school at a young age your chances of making it are a lot slimmer. It's a very niche sport and people looking to get into it are probably often driven away because of price and even if they can afford it usually don't have anywhere to ride.

Tarz483 wrote:

Any idea how youth league motocross works? Ive never lived anywhere that had it, i can say if it tied into school somehow it likely would...

Any idea how youth league motocross works?
Ive never lived anywhere that had it, i can say if it tied into school somehow it likely would have encouraged me to get better grade's if it was a requirement to be involved, i was one that didnt try hard in school.

early wrote:

I hear ya. I would love to try an e-bike. Now that it's cold enough and there's some snow cover for the ground to not be...

I hear ya. I would love to try an e-bike. Now that it's cold enough and there's some snow cover for the ground to not be muddy I'm going to get a fat bike ride in later tonite. I just wonder if there is a missing link between a bicycle/e-bike and a dirt bike like the Harley concept or sur-ron. Kinda like an electric 125 Elsinore for a new generation.

RCMXracing wrote:

The one they had at Oak Hill in TX was run by Jeff Oldenburg, yes Mitchell’s dad. I didn’t have a kid involved, maybe some Vital...

The one they had at Oak Hill in TX was run by Jeff Oldenburg, yes Mitchell’s dad. I didn’t have a kid involved, maybe some Vital members would know more. He really involved the parents and educated them as much as the kids. The difference from a Mx school is that it was scheduled and recurring and I would say more broad in structure and not as hard core. More inviting to beginners of all ages under 18. I remember him saying he wanted to expand and grow it. He sold the track since.

They used to have high school motocross in Cali. That would have been cool!

The problem with Moto compared to stick and ball is the entry expense obviously. It’s kind of handed down from dad’s, uncles, cousins that know the sport. If completely clueless parents feel like there’s a place for their kid to “sign up” for Moto to try it without the expense up front that would help grow it. This is where electric could really help. You rent the bike. The maintenance costs and hassles are less. Heck could even do this with PW’s and entry level bikes right now.

akillerwombat wrote:

The sport has to do more to embrace electric, plain and simple.

Bry145 wrote:

I could see a small pitbikelike electric motorcycle being fun on a dedicated BMX style track. But anything like that with a throttle would cause big...

I could see a small pitbikelike electric motorcycle being fun on a dedicated BMX style track. But anything like that with a throttle would cause big problems on MTB trails. It would be fun, but very very very bad as it would call for a two-wheel ban on the trails.

The beauty of an e-bike is having some assist without people knowing a motor is in there. The new Levo would not raise any eyebrows on the local bike trails.

moto671z wrote:

The sport is as expensive as you want to make it. The used bike market has never been better due to it being saturated. Its a...

The sport is as expensive as you want to make it. The used bike market has never been better due to it being saturated. Its a buyers market and just having gone through selling a few year old used bike, you almost have to give them away. If $40 is too much for open practice day, then move on to another sport.

Indy mxer wrote:

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it...

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it would be better if all the OEM's or at least more, would make 2 strokes again. But that said it's a small part of the issue.My family has been a multi line dealer since 1974. Although I don't work there, my brother owns it now and my son and nephew both work there.

We're all into moto and even promote races here. I think the main issue is pretty straight forward. Kids just aren't into dirtbikes as much as they used to be.
Some of it is over protective parents, but most of it is kids with phones, video games and other tech. Too much time inside and parents who don't encourage them to go outside. Even little league baseball participation is down.
Hell, just drive around your neighborhood in the summer.
How many kids do you see outside throwing a football around, riding bikes, playing hoops, or just plain playing? Not near as many as there used to be. And I live in a small town where there's not as much to do.

The good news is there's still some kids addicted to mx. I know a few of them that buy bikes from my brother.
And my favorite track, LTM in Casey IL regularly gets over 400 riders at his events and he's usually packed on practice days.

Not sure what the answer is, but the cost of bikes and 2 strokes isn't a big issue, imo.
As someone said, used bikes have never been a better value. You can find really nice low hour 4 strokes all over at great prices. And if you want new and don't mind a leftover, you can get a killer deal on those all the time

Indy mxer wrote:

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it...

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it would be better if all the OEM's or at least more, would make 2 strokes again. But that said it's a small part of the issue.My family has been a multi line dealer since 1974. Although I don't work there, my brother owns it now and my son and nephew both work there.

We're all into moto and even promote races here. I think the main issue is pretty straight forward. Kids just aren't into dirtbikes as much as they used to be.
Some of it is over protective parents, but most of it is kids with phones, video games and other tech. Too much time inside and parents who don't encourage them to go outside. Even little league baseball participation is down.
Hell, just drive around your neighborhood in the summer.
How many kids do you see outside throwing a football around, riding bikes, playing hoops, or just plain playing? Not near as many as there used to be. And I live in a small town where there's not as much to do.

The good news is there's still some kids addicted to mx. I know a few of them that buy bikes from my brother.
And my favorite track, LTM in Casey IL regularly gets over 400 riders at his events and he's usually packed on practice days.

Not sure what the answer is, but the cost of bikes and 2 strokes isn't a big issue, imo.
As someone said, used bikes have never been a better value. You can find really nice low hour 4 strokes all over at great prices. And if you want new and don't mind a leftover, you can get a killer deal on those all the time

Indy mxer wrote:

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it...

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it would be better if all the OEM's or at least more, would make 2 strokes again. But that said it's a small part of the issue.My family has been a multi line dealer since 1974. Although I don't work there, my brother owns it now and my son and nephew both work there.

We're all into moto and even promote races here. I think the main issue is pretty straight forward. Kids just aren't into dirtbikes as much as they used to be.
Some of it is over protective parents, but most of it is kids with phones, video games and other tech. Too much time inside and parents who don't encourage them to go outside. Even little league baseball participation is down.
Hell, just drive around your neighborhood in the summer.
How many kids do you see outside throwing a football around, riding bikes, playing hoops, or just plain playing? Not near as many as there used to be. And I live in a small town where there's not as much to do.

The good news is there's still some kids addicted to mx. I know a few of them that buy bikes from my brother.
And my favorite track, LTM in Casey IL regularly gets over 400 riders at his events and he's usually packed on practice days.

Not sure what the answer is, but the cost of bikes and 2 strokes isn't a big issue, imo.
As someone said, used bikes have never been a better value. You can find really nice low hour 4 strokes all over at great prices. And if you want new and don't mind a leftover, you can get a killer deal on those all the time

Bry145 wrote:

Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll...

Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll on our demographics, and how many more motocrossers may we have if Roe vs. Wade did not happen?

Correlation is not causation. But one cannot ignore that the wholesale swich to four-strokes in 2004 occured within 4 years of the collapse.

If you don't think four-strokes are a big problem, just imagine if all minibikes went four-stroke and prices raised commensurate with big bike four-stroke price gains (including maintenance). How many parents could afford that and keep coming to the races?

Indy mxer wrote:

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it...

You all make good points and all have some validity. But I think this constant drumbeat about 4 strokes is off base. Yes, for sure it would be better if all the OEM's or at least more, would make 2 strokes again. But that said it's a small part of the issue.My family has been a multi line dealer since 1974. Although I don't work there, my brother owns it now and my son and nephew both work there.

We're all into moto and even promote races here. I think the main issue is pretty straight forward. Kids just aren't into dirtbikes as much as they used to be.
Some of it is over protective parents, but most of it is kids with phones, video games and other tech. Too much time inside and parents who don't encourage them to go outside. Even little league baseball participation is down.
Hell, just drive around your neighborhood in the summer.
How many kids do you see outside throwing a football around, riding bikes, playing hoops, or just plain playing? Not near as many as there used to be. And I live in a small town where there's not as much to do.

The good news is there's still some kids addicted to mx. I know a few of them that buy bikes from my brother.
And my favorite track, LTM in Casey IL regularly gets over 400 riders at his events and he's usually packed on practice days.

Not sure what the answer is, but the cost of bikes and 2 strokes isn't a big issue, imo.
As someone said, used bikes have never been a better value. You can find really nice low hour 4 strokes all over at great prices. And if you want new and don't mind a leftover, you can get a killer deal on those all the time

Bry145 wrote:

Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll...

Birth rates have declined as well, and dare I say the demographics that are reproducing are not likely to pursue moto. Feminism has taken its toll on our demographics, and how many more motocrossers may we have if Roe vs. Wade did not happen?

Correlation is not causation. But one cannot ignore that the wholesale swich to four-strokes in 2004 occured within 4 years of the collapse.

If you don't think four-strokes are a big problem, just imagine if all minibikes went four-stroke and prices raised commensurate with big bike four-stroke price gains (including maintenance). How many parents could afford that and keep coming to the races?