Moto is on the Decline?

NATEP231
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Waterloo, IA US
12/16/2016 5:55am
Does anyone remember when gas prices were all to blame? The reason tires went up in price was because of oil prices. The reason entry fees were goin up because of fuel to prep tracks... Well........weve been back to "normalish" prices and still nothing has changed and won't change. I hope someone from AMA or Davey Coombs is really reading this thread. It's the people trying to explain some problems here that most likely and usually fall on deaf ears.
Braap19
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Swansboro, NC US
12/16/2016 12:21pm
You guys are crazy. I started track riding in 2014 for about 3k. I didn't have the best stuff but if you get creative, ride a...
You guys are crazy.

I started track riding in 2014 for about 3k. I didn't have the best stuff but if you get creative, ride a slightly older bike(thats still probably above your skill level), learn to fix stuff on your own, etc you can have just as much fun and do well for way less than the numbers in this thread. People can't just ride to have fun anymore, everything is way to serious and competitive. Most of us are never getting our pro card and even less will be riding pro in SX or MX. This is why Hare scrambles are getting extremely popular and track riding it suffering IMO.

$600 blown up bike
$1000 "resto" job
$600 in gear
$500 harbor freight trailer
$200 hitch for chevy cruze

Approximately $3000 ish and I had a blast. Wish I would have found track riding before 27 years old.








-eagle- wrote:



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honda907
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Chesterfield, SC US
12/16/2016 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 3:15pm
Actually, in reading the posts, here and in other forums, older people are overwhelming concerened. That's the problem. Young people don't care, not for the most part. Im talking about the young people who dont even now there is racing to be done . Its untapped . So this needs to be addressed. How do you get new, fresh, rookies to come and participate? That will grow the sport.

Old guys like me cannot. My kids and soon my grandkids are in. There is no more room for me to grow the sport. That's the problem. The focus is in the wrong spot. We need to make it spectator friendly and introduce it to new people- people who have never ever seen an event. How do you do this? That's a good question!

But asking old diehards like me what is wrong is looking at the problem all wrong. I still go- for the most part. Your not trying to please me or the others who are racing. You need to get that kid who only plays video games to come outside and ride, then race. That is what needs to be done to grow the sport.

How that's done is the question. That's what needs to be marketed by the tracks and shops and the AMA..................

The tracks need to offer a free school taught by pros . This at least gets the people to a track to find out what it is all about.

Dealers need to be involved with safety and education like they are with A TV s.

The AMA needs to promote something like fun, adventure or whatever.
kkawboy14
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12/16/2016 1:57pm
There are a ton of boats out there, boat racing isn't very big.

The Shop

Hammer 663s
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Forest Grove, OR US
12/16/2016 2:10pm
Access, cost, risk.

Limited places to ride depending on where you live. NorCal was mecca to use - tracks everywhere including our own. Best place in the US for amateur level moto I think.

It costs a fortune for me and the boy to ride and race. Easy $10k a year. Gas, gate and race entry fees, camping, parts, gear, food. I've spent over $20k in a really busy year riding/racing almost every weekend. Bikes not included in that cost and he outgrows one every 2 years. Getting ready to go to 85s this year.

Then there's risk. He's 10, had 2 concussions and a bruised spleen, over $100k in (covered) medical bills between 7-10 years old solely due to crashes. And he's not blazing fast or a huge risk taker. Stuff still happens. Lots of sports out there safer than MX. Mom is always worried when we leave the house. I am always worried when the gate drops. For both of us.

I'm very fortunate to make good $$$ that allows us to afford this. I'll keep going as long as we can, but I've cut back for sure on the race spending. Can't really justify it.

Hammer 663s

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Dropbear
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Adelaide AU
12/16/2016 5:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2016 5:39pm
I don't race anymore, but I did for the best part 17 years and practiced twice a week on a number of tracks and did not pay a cent to ride. Now you have 1 or 2 tracks and it's a $100 day. Sure groomed and all but not in my budget. Maybe electric will be the go formore areas? BTW my avatar is from Pelican Point in Adelaide. 25 minutes from home and ride all day. You could mark out a cool whooped sand track with your friends. Not anymore. Now they make submarines there.
Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX US
12/16/2016 5:29pm
If we're talking grass roots, the manufacturer's have to share the blame for not building entry level products.

Honda has lot's of little bikes, but nothing like the Cub EZ90 anymore. With it's e-start, fully automatic transmission and clutch it is a perfect spot to begin.

When my girls were growing up we had 2 of them, and ended up over in the school soccer field setting up orange cones, with 2-way radios in the helmets and ended up drawing a big crowd of kids every time. Probably taught 20 of them to ride right there. Made them do figure 8's, stopping drills and other exercises. They all wanted to go fast, but I wouldn't let them until they had demonstrated the basic skills on a flat grass field.

Several of these kids wanted a more advanced introduction and a half dozen times I would take kids with me to certain Scrambles where I knew the property would allow them to ride. Parents came along most times. It was interesting for them to watch the Scrambles before I had time to coordinate their rides. None that I know of ever got a bike of their own.

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Tarz483
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1/13/2019 7:09pm
Very interesting Thread, i know ill probably get flamed for bringing up an old thread but anybody have any other reasons why Moto is in decline at the grassroots level or did this thread cover them all ?
Also as an observation where did all the posters in this thread go ? I never see any of these names did they all leave the sport ?
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brocsdad
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Thompsons Station, TN US
1/13/2019 8:07pm
Bike costs, lack of places to ride, insurance and hospital cost and lack of interest from the youth is killing the sport.

Also the fast guys all live and train at compounds so there are no local Pro’s showing up to help draw crowds.

It’s basically becoming an elitist sport.
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Bry145
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Bridgeville, PA US
1/13/2019 8:31pm
Total up all the race entries and practice day entries nationwide in the year 2018.

Compare to data from 2015, 2010, 2005, 2000, and 1995.

That woud show if the sport is on the up and up or on the way out. But how does one find this data?

I would imagine we would see a ramp up from 1995 to 2005, a sharp drop to 2010, and a gradual decline since then. We all know what the problems are. I see the stakeholders in the sport making all the money they can in the short term and not being willing to make any changes for long term sustainability.







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1/13/2019 8:32pm
Cost and lack of places to just ride for fun. Kids arent into motorcycles anymore. Motorcycles are on the decline.
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TbonesPop
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1/13/2019 8:42pm
I blame popularity of video games and side by sides. Golf is in decline too. No idea on how other sports are holding up. It just seems to me like kids would rather play video games all day and night on the weekends and drink Mountain Dew. A lot of adults I know that used to ride have transitioned to SxS's. But the bottom line is, I don;t think this is unique to our sport. Society is changing....
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4csHATER
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The sticks, KY US
1/13/2019 8:55pm
yea i have some reasons cause everyone hates everyone anymore, 20$ for oem lever pack (40$ if ktm) and you cant even trust gas or bikes these days, moto is at an all time decline cause the days of loading up a pickup and going racing with your son are gone, you have to have atleast an rv, new bike, good fuel, cash for 7-16 minutes for one class of riding, maintaining money (car,van,truck-trailer,equiptment for personal track) personal place to ride throughout the weekdays, fresh injectors/throttle bodys on hand, 17$ foam element filters(1.22¢ to make) and new tires every time you race (cause the old tires wore slower than the new ones) HEALTH INSURANCE, bike insurance (theives) saftey gear (rising in cost but yet marketed as totally affordable and obtainable) and of cours you have to have what every one else has at least or your not cool enough,

moto used to be differnt but so did america, now we have so many pussys in this country that there trying to take inventory of personal arsenal, thats against the constitution, same thing as having gay people in motocross, im not gonna mention any names but there is a flamer and a half on utube telling people how to clean there dirt bike frames lmao.


10,000 dollars for a bike that costs not even 2500$ to make, shit like this is killing it.
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MohMoto14
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OH US
1/13/2019 8:58pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2019 9:09pm
There were a ton of riders at Day in the Dirt too. That doesn't really mean that moto is doing fine though. That's just one weekend...
There were a ton of riders at Day in the Dirt too. That doesn't really mean that moto is doing fine though. That's just one weekend in southern California...

deanwhite51
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Sydney AU
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1/13/2019 8:59pm
here in Australia its the cost to buy a bike, the entry fee to race and do events, prices of gear, politics etc...
Its shit because you spend all that money, go to an event and only do 20 mins of seat time.
Theirs not fun in it now. its all to serious. You have C grade riders who are wining Championships due to the facts theirs only 3 guys in there race and no one turning up!

MTB's and enduro is starting to really take off down here. becoming more and more popular due to the fact that the scene is all fun, price of events are cheaper and you get plenty of seat time. AND! theirs always some where to ride. theirs no travel to ride bush,

Im a motocross rider. I hate tree's and i hate rocks.
But its hard to want to put effort into the moto scene when bikes are double the price and i can go do a down hill MTB race and spend a whole day riding with mates with no expenses.


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Bry145
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Bridgeville, PA US
1/13/2019 9:10pm
here in Australia its the cost to buy a bike, the entry fee to race and do events, prices of gear, politics etc... Its shit because...
here in Australia its the cost to buy a bike, the entry fee to race and do events, prices of gear, politics etc...
Its shit because you spend all that money, go to an event and only do 20 mins of seat time.
Theirs not fun in it now. its all to serious. You have C grade riders who are wining Championships due to the facts theirs only 3 guys in there race and no one turning up!

MTB's and enduro is starting to really take off down here. becoming more and more popular due to the fact that the scene is all fun, price of events are cheaper and you get plenty of seat time. AND! theirs always some where to ride. theirs no travel to ride bush,

Im a motocross rider. I hate tree's and i hate rocks.
But its hard to want to put effort into the moto scene when bikes are double the price and i can go do a down hill MTB race and spend a whole day riding with mates with no expenses.


Mountain biking is thriving. Although not cheap, it is passing the cost benefit analysis. It costs me practically nothing to go hammer at the local park. Practically nothing!

Motocross is failing the cost benefit analysis. $60 for a practice day. $100 for a local race.

Motocross (like marriage and having kids) used to pass the cost benefit analysis, but things have changed. And there is no going back. There will be less motocross and less white folks in the future. The times are a changin'.




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MX-LIFE.
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Redford, MI US
1/13/2019 9:48pm
SX attendance is on the decline by the looks of all the empty seats at the races over the past few years! Funny how the cameras are always panning down to lower seats the middle to upper seats be rather empty
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gnarwhip
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Los Angeles, CA US
1/13/2019 10:34pm
Not to get all political, but liberals in CA waging war against two strokes hurt the industry really bad. Also the great recession of 08 hit everyone hard. And Obamacare doubling everyone’s insurance right after that was liking stepping on someone’s head while they’re drowning.
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mx295
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1/14/2019 3:49am
BobPA wrote:
What's an EV?
Electric Vehicle
Bry145
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Bridgeville, PA US
1/14/2019 4:23am
One could argue that GNCC racing and MTB are more of a level playing field and less about the almighty dollar and having wealthy parents and/or a financially rewarding career.

The switch to four-strokes and raising the costs of participation seperated the haves and the have nots. Many have nots found a more affordable hobby. If the median income (before tax) is 40K/year, how could one expect the sport to thrive if many of the participants were priced out of it? Add in inflation, housing costs, and taxes to support the enormous welfare state.

I pine for the good old days: 1999.




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ama530
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Lehighton, PA US
1/14/2019 4:29am Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 4:30am
Cost is an issue, but is relative. Do I like dishing out 10K for a new dirtbike? Not really. But in the grand scheme of things, 10K is a drop in the bucket. Guys piss and moan about the bike costs but head down to the local car dealer and drop $65k on a new truck without blinking an eye. How about that $30k Harley everyone needed to have a few years back. Also, we have to lease that new BMW, Benz, or Audi so it makes us look like we have 3x the money we actually earn. I know people that spend 10k on school taxes every year! Technology has made it an elitist sport. Modern dirtbikes are pieces of engineering brilliance. Would anyone have guessed a few years ago that we could change the EFI mapping on our bike with a phone? We are riding 2-wheeled McLarens. It took a while, but blame the production rule from 1986.
5
1/14/2019 5:17am
I wonder what the purses look like 5-10 years compared to now but I do believe the sport hit a low and is starting to climb out of the financial strain or at least trying to! Kawasaki has a legit off-road team again, more riders are trying to qualify for SX (2010 A1 I remember hardly anyone compared to now privateer wise), and locally people are starting to go out and ride more. So I'm skeptical but hopeful that it is on the upswing. The industry needs it.
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cody41
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Miami, FL US
1/14/2019 5:19am
here in Australia its the cost to buy a bike, the entry fee to race and do events, prices of gear, politics etc... Its shit because...
here in Australia its the cost to buy a bike, the entry fee to race and do events, prices of gear, politics etc...
Its shit because you spend all that money, go to an event and only do 20 mins of seat time.
Theirs not fun in it now. its all to serious. You have C grade riders who are wining Championships due to the facts theirs only 3 guys in there race and no one turning up!

MTB's and enduro is starting to really take off down here. becoming more and more popular due to the fact that the scene is all fun, price of events are cheaper and you get plenty of seat time. AND! theirs always some where to ride. theirs no travel to ride bush,

Im a motocross rider. I hate tree's and i hate rocks.
But its hard to want to put effort into the moto scene when bikes are double the price and i can go do a down hill MTB race and spend a whole day riding with mates with no expenses.


Bry145 wrote:
Mountain biking is thriving. Although not cheap, it is passing the cost benefit analysis. It costs me practically nothing to go hammer at the local park...
Mountain biking is thriving. Although not cheap, it is passing the cost benefit analysis. It costs me practically nothing to go hammer at the local park. Practically nothing!

Motocross is failing the cost benefit analysis. $60 for a practice day. $100 for a local race.

Motocross (like marriage and having kids) used to pass the cost benefit analysis, but things have changed. And there is no going back. There will be less motocross and less white folks in the future. The times are a changin'.




I race CAT 1 mountain biking, and I do enjoy the sport very much, but it does not hit the same spot as moto.
cody41
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Miami, FL US
1/14/2019 5:23am
This is true. I used to buy a current year 450 every year when I was trying to get my pro card. I kind of realized that it was all a waste of time and money, decided to buy a yz250, and now I just ride for fun and hit a few races here and there. I’m having a lot more fun now than I was before.
ama530
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Lehighton, PA US
1/14/2019 5:25am
Very good points. The bike is only a piece of the total 'race' pie. Gear is very expensive and getting more expensive exponentially. Is it making the sport more enjoyable? Don't know the consensus. That would make a good poll. All I know is that my 17 Husky FX350 is probably the best bike I have ever owned, along with my old 87 CR250. At 51 years old, I enjoy riding more now than I did 30 years ago. It all depends on how much you want to spend on your hobby. And we have to remind ourselves that this is a hobby. Just to put it into perspective a bit. Go to a local dirt track here in PA on a Saturday night. Guys that work at the auto parts store in town making chicken scratch have $50k in their cars to run 'local yocal' races??? Motocross/off road looks pretty cheap to me when it comes down to it. Speed of the bikes is out for opinion. Yes, they are faster in certain aspects. Ride an old 500 and you won't think that a new 450 is all that fast. The issue is that they are easier to ride fast. I see guys getting messed up from lack of experience. A newby can come off the coach and go ride the new bikes. 20 years ago, not so much. Back in the day. Novice riders didn't do the jumps. Only the top A riders did all the obstacles. It isn't that the bike weren't fast enough. It took more experience and technique to get the bike to do what you wanted it to do. Now it is like autopilot.
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Sweetd31
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Location
Deer Park, TX US
1/14/2019 7:20am
Fat down payment on a car is the cost of a new bike
But also, the sport is more dangerous than it has ever been.

Side effect of “pushing” the sport

Just my opinion, obviously take with a grain of salt
1/14/2019 7:53am Edited Date/Time 1/14/2019 7:55am
Best answer and the SOLUTION!

Tell your dealer, friends OEM's to introduce or promote new 2-Stroke Engine based bikes! Maybe electric bikes will have a longer battery life in the future, not a bad option. But the OEM's better get in gear, I would love to spend money for an E-Mountain Bike, which would get ridden more often, but not as much fun as an MX/Enduro.

Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda are falling behind. Europe is selling the hell out of 2-T 300's, this is the BEST engine technology going, smallest, lightest, most economical probably for a long time to come. The fastest growing 2-T companies, Gas Gas, Sherco, TM, Beta KTM and Husky are taking more of the market every year.

A friend of mine and I have the Eddie Sanders Racing YZ ESR 325, and expect maybe BETA will offer some type of 350 or 400 2-T in the near future, then you will have an all around bike for everything without the EXPENSIVE 4-T parts.

With the OEM's pushing 4-T's, the COST is completely out of control! Are you OEM's listening, to HELL with your expensive technology!

SX and every other PRO Racing series needs to allow 250 2-Ts to compete against 250 4-Ts, then do is again in the 450 class!
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