ET vs JS vs RC

RichardLoots 7/30/2018 1:52pm
7/30/2018 1:52pm
RichardLoots wrote:
Tongue

https://youtu.be/8teyoytolZI
WCRider wrote:
Rarely doesn't mean never Tongue

its a video from 2014 .. Laughing are you kidding me ?

come on make those words mean something dude as you seem to be mistaken and the names reversed ,

i think you meant to say

I rarely hear a commentator say "Woah" when I watch Tomac. I hear a lot "Woah" when i watch Herlings ..

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WCRider
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WCRider 7/30/2018 1:57pm
7/30/2018 1:57pm
RichardLoots wrote:
its a video from 2014 .. :laugh: are you kidding me ? come on make those words mean something dude as you seem to be mistaken...
its a video from 2014 .. Laughing are you kidding me ?

come on make those words mean something dude as you seem to be mistaken and the names reversed ,

i think you meant to say

I rarely hear a commentator say "Woah" when I watch Tomac. I hear a lot "Woah" when i watch Herlings ..

Ok...


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sclark309d 7/30/2018 2:01pm
7/30/2018 2:01pm
What Is Zen wrote:
I bet Herlings would have something to say about Eli being the fastest man on the planet.
WCRider wrote:
I rarely hear a commentator say "Woah" when I watch Herlings. I hear a lot "Woah" when i watch Tomac...
cracks me up when Langston giggles
Kuzzy510
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Kuzzy510 7/30/2018 2:31pm
7/30/2018 2:31pm
This whole thread is just comical.

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cbuehler767
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cbuehler767 7/30/2018 2:34pm
7/30/2018 2:34pm
RichardLoots wrote:
Tongue

https://youtu.be/8teyoytolZI
WCRider wrote:
Rarely doesn't mean never Tongue

RichardLoots wrote:
its a video from 2014 .. :laugh: are you kidding me ? come on make those words mean something dude as you seem to be mistaken...
its a video from 2014 .. Laughing are you kidding me ?

come on make those words mean something dude as you seem to be mistaken and the names reversed ,

i think you meant to say

I rarely hear a commentator say "Woah" when I watch Tomac. I hear a lot "Woah" when i watch Herlings ..

He's probably never even watched Herlings before just leave it
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devindavisphoto 7/30/2018 2:36pm
7/30/2018 2:36pm
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN MUSQUIN. When Bubba was putting 4 seconds on guys, no offense, but it wasn't the same caliber of world champions like Roczen and Musquin. Sure, it was high level talent, but not at the level it was at today. James Stewart was incredible on his day, but with the evolution of the sport and the ever-improving suspension and bike settings and how far you can push it while keeping a comfortable stability, I think Tomac beats James.
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 2:40pm
7/30/2018 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2018 2:41pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN...
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN MUSQUIN. When Bubba was putting 4 seconds on guys, no offense, but it wasn't the same caliber of world champions like Roczen and Musquin. Sure, it was high level talent, but not at the level it was at today. James Stewart was incredible on his day, but with the evolution of the sport and the ever-improving suspension and bike settings and how far you can push it while keeping a comfortable stability, I think Tomac beats James.
RC regularly put 2 seconds a lap on Stewart and 4-5 seconds a lap on Reed and Windham in 2006.
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motokiwi 7/30/2018 2:44pm
7/30/2018 2:44pm
Tomac would wax RV.
RV would wax RC.
RC would wax MC.

Different eras. The sport progresses.
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Juss72 7/30/2018 2:50pm
7/30/2018 2:50pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime? Seeing that many of the MX tracks...
Right now it looks like ET is the FMOTP. Wonder how he would compare to JS in his prime?

Seeing that many of the MX tracks are the same and have the same/similar layouts over the years, is it reasonably possible to compare ET's lap times vs JS and/or RC at Washougal or any or the other tracks?

Obviously things can't be compared 100% year to year, but do any obvious patterns emerge with respect to lap times?

What Is Zen wrote:
I bet Herlings would have something to say about Eli being the fastest man on the planet.
Well I'm pretty sure Eli could run with JH in MX. Both are for sure the two fastest MX riders, in the world. Problem is Eli is also the fastest SX rider in the world. JH could not make an SX main. IMO SX takes more talent than MX. No disrespect to JH, cause that dude is unreal & could be fast at SX if he wanted too.
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Juss72 7/30/2018 2:55pm
7/30/2018 2:55pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN...
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN MUSQUIN. When Bubba was putting 4 seconds on guys, no offense, but it wasn't the same caliber of world champions like Roczen and Musquin. Sure, it was high level talent, but not at the level it was at today. James Stewart was incredible on his day, but with the evolution of the sport and the ever-improving suspension and bike settings and how far you can push it while keeping a comfortable stability, I think Tomac beats James.
Stew looked pretty damn fast on that Suzuki. Not sure I can agree. Both JS and RC would step it up to run with Eli. Watching Eli is almost like watch another JS. Fast as hell on the edge, but can crash at any second. Would love to see JS race the 125 dream race. RV would have nothing for JS on a 125 2 stroke!
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drt410 7/30/2018 3:10pm
7/30/2018 3:10pm
agn5009 wrote:
Eli ain't the FMOTP. FMITUSA sure, but until he beats Jeffrey Herlings you can't claim he's the fastest in the world. The rest of your post...
Eli ain't the FMOTP. FMITUSA sure, but until he beats Jeffrey Herlings you can't claim he's the fastest in the world.

The rest of your post, no to basically everything. You can't compare lap times. Different track conditions, different bikes (better), different competition, different ruts, different jumps, different corners, different starts. Literally everything is different about the track and bike. It is literally impossible to figure out whether RC, JS or ET is faster at three different times.

The only thing that's not impossible is guaging their careers. RC is obviously the best choice career wise.
Eli has beat Herlings, last year at USGP, why do people say he hasnt? Herlings also beat him. At the usgp they split motos. Anderson and Webb have also both beat Herlings straight up too, what does that say? Anderson beat him at mxon and Webb at charlotte usgp. Just because he had a good race here on a day when Tomac wanted to cruise around and wrap up the title doesnt mean hes way better. It really doesnt mean much other than yes hes fast and had a good day. Tomac isnt way better than him either, theyre both the 2 fastest riders in the world. Anything can happen on 1 raceday, it doesnt say anything absolutely definitive. Herlings had a great day at Ironman and it was incredible to watch, but it really didnt mean anything other than hes fast, just like we know he is.

Herlings Ironman race didnt say as much as people wanna say it did. It was one race, the last race after a long season, and Tomacs 1 job that day was just to not crash and take home the #1 plate. That was it and just by finishing both motos he would win the championship. His job that day was not to win the race, although that would be nice, he gets paid to win championships. Tomac was cruising around and Herlings caught and passed him and for a second the killer instinct kicked in and he forgot the gameplan and caught back up to Herlings and went to pass him back but then he landed in that soft dirt and crashed. After that he was like damn I cant be doing that and settled for that race and also for the next one and won the championship.

Theyre both world class and have both beat eachother. Like I said Herlings can be touched Eli, Ando, and Webb have all beat him straight up. Stop dogging US riders while conveniently forgetting the facts.

Mxon will be the real test this year to settle the hype, but no matter who wins its still 1 race. I think we have to take this years US mxon and next years Euro mxon and combine the two and whatever else after that happens in the future to really get an idea.
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Sideways 7/30/2018 3:27pm
7/30/2018 3:27pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2018 3:28pm
drt410 wrote:
Eli has beat Herlings, last year at USGP, why do people say he hasnt? Herlings also beat him. At the usgp they split motos. Anderson and...
Eli has beat Herlings, last year at USGP, why do people say he hasnt? Herlings also beat him. At the usgp they split motos. Anderson and Webb have also both beat Herlings straight up too, what does that say? Anderson beat him at mxon and Webb at charlotte usgp. Just because he had a good race here on a day when Tomac wanted to cruise around and wrap up the title doesnt mean hes way better. It really doesnt mean much other than yes hes fast and had a good day. Tomac isnt way better than him either, theyre both the 2 fastest riders in the world. Anything can happen on 1 raceday, it doesnt say anything absolutely definitive. Herlings had a great day at Ironman and it was incredible to watch, but it really didnt mean anything other than hes fast, just like we know he is.

Herlings Ironman race didnt say as much as people wanna say it did. It was one race, the last race after a long season, and Tomacs 1 job that day was just to not crash and take home the #1 plate. That was it and just by finishing both motos he would win the championship. His job that day was not to win the race, although that would be nice, he gets paid to win championships. Tomac was cruising around and Herlings caught and passed him and for a second the killer instinct kicked in and he forgot the gameplan and caught back up to Herlings and went to pass him back but then he landed in that soft dirt and crashed. After that he was like damn I cant be doing that and settled for that race and also for the next one and won the championship.

Theyre both world class and have both beat eachother. Like I said Herlings can be touched Eli, Ando, and Webb have all beat him straight up. Stop dogging US riders while conveniently forgetting the facts.

Mxon will be the real test this year to settle the hype, but no matter who wins its still 1 race. I think we have to take this years US mxon and next years Euro mxon and combine the two and whatever else after that happens in the future to really get an idea.
In 2nd moto they herlings,cairoli and tomac started together. Tomac could not keep up and thats facts. Tomac said himself he could not keep their pace. He was like 20-30sec behind herlings. In 1st moto herlings came from behind while tomac was leading from early on.

This year might be different, who knows, but last year herlings was clearly faster when they met.
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 3:49pm
7/30/2018 3:49pm
Sideways wrote:
In 2nd moto they herlings,cairoli and tomac started together. Tomac could not keep up and thats facts. Tomac said himself he could not keep their pace...
In 2nd moto they herlings,cairoli and tomac started together. Tomac could not keep up and thats facts. Tomac said himself he could not keep their pace. He was like 20-30sec behind herlings. In 1st moto herlings came from behind while tomac was leading from early on.

This year might be different, who knows, but last year herlings was clearly faster when they met.
Herlings was better that 2nd moto in Jacksonville for sure, but so was Cairoli. And Tomac has shown on several occasions that AC can't hang with him when he's on it.

I think Herlings and Tomac are very close and anyone who says one is head and shoulders above the other is being a fanboy.
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joshflo
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joshflo 7/30/2018 4:15pm
7/30/2018 4:15pm
All I know is that if eli beats herlings straight up at MXoN he’ll become a lored American hero for taking down the invincible euro god he had “no chance” against. Then the mxgp fanboys will only want to talk about home field advantage or say shit like “if it was a sand track...”. If herlings wins just expect more of the same arrogance x10
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TDeath21 7/30/2018 4:21pm
7/30/2018 4:21pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN...
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN MUSQUIN. When Bubba was putting 4 seconds on guys, no offense, but it wasn't the same caliber of world champions like Roczen and Musquin. Sure, it was high level talent, but not at the level it was at today. James Stewart was incredible on his day, but with the evolution of the sport and the ever-improving suspension and bike settings and how far you can push it while keeping a comfortable stability, I think Tomac beats James.
Lol.
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jsmi33966 7/30/2018 4:24pm
7/30/2018 4:24pm
jsmi33966 wrote:
I think JS7 was beating RC and RV when they were in there prime
TDeath21 wrote:
Nope. In 05, Stewart won 0 motos. But he was on a 250 so there’s that. In 06, Stewart won 4 motos. In 1, Carmichael crashed...
Nope. In 05, Stewart won 0 motos. But he was on a 250 so there’s that. In 06, Stewart won 4 motos. In 1, Carmichael crashed in the first turn, in 1, Carmichael crashed twice in the race, and the other two Carmichael had the only non mechanical DNF and DNS of his career. In 07, Stewart won 3 motos against a semi-retired and already focusing on NASCAR Carmichael.

As far as Villopoto, we unfortunately only saw them compete against each other in 13 due to injuries and Stewart going SX only. In that season, Villopoto waxed everyone and I think only lost a couple motos to Stewart all year.

Now if we are talking about SX, yeah Stewart had the speed there on Carmichael. Just not the mental toughness to win a championship. As for Villopoto, Stewart would occasionally be faster, but Villopoto was always far and away the better championship contender and often was putting up the faster laptimes too.

So in conclusion, your statement really only applies to Carmichael in SX.
But in sx Stewart was way past his prime and still would beat RV strait up. Plus RV is spoiled with a bad attitude cut his family off wouldn't talk to his little sister for like 3 years.
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Jeremy_Preston 7/30/2018 4:54pm
7/30/2018 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2018 4:59pm
They are all fantastic riders in there own era.
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jeffro503 7/30/2018 5:04pm
7/30/2018 5:04pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN...
I honestly think that Tomac is going faster than RC or Bubba. Tomac is putting 4+ seconds a lap on guys like KEN ROCZEN and MARVIN MUSQUIN. When Bubba was putting 4 seconds on guys, no offense, but it wasn't the same caliber of world champions like Roczen and Musquin. Sure, it was high level talent, but not at the level it was at today. James Stewart was incredible on his day, but with the evolution of the sport and the ever-improving suspension and bike settings and how far you can push it while keeping a comfortable stability, I think Tomac beats James.
Juss72 wrote:
Stew looked pretty damn fast on that Suzuki. Not sure I can agree. Both JS and RC would step it up to run with Eli. Watching...
Stew looked pretty damn fast on that Suzuki. Not sure I can agree. Both JS and RC would step it up to run with Eli. Watching Eli is almost like watch another JS. Fast as hell on the edge, but can crash at any second. Would love to see JS race the 125 dream race. RV would have nothing for JS on a 125 2 stroke!
James would go into cardiac arrest by lap 2. RV waxed him on big bikes.....and since RV still rides , would smoke ol' Stewie like a cigar. Now if we were to go back in time...like 15 years ago.....yes , James was the fastest 125 rider this planet has ever seen.
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jeffro503 7/30/2018 5:07pm
7/30/2018 5:07pm
jsmi33966 wrote:
I think JS7 was beating RC and RV when they were in there prime
TDeath21 wrote:
Nope. In 05, Stewart won 0 motos. But he was on a 250 so there’s that. In 06, Stewart won 4 motos. In 1, Carmichael crashed...
Nope. In 05, Stewart won 0 motos. But he was on a 250 so there’s that. In 06, Stewart won 4 motos. In 1, Carmichael crashed in the first turn, in 1, Carmichael crashed twice in the race, and the other two Carmichael had the only non mechanical DNF and DNS of his career. In 07, Stewart won 3 motos against a semi-retired and already focusing on NASCAR Carmichael.

As far as Villopoto, we unfortunately only saw them compete against each other in 13 due to injuries and Stewart going SX only. In that season, Villopoto waxed everyone and I think only lost a couple motos to Stewart all year.

Now if we are talking about SX, yeah Stewart had the speed there on Carmichael. Just not the mental toughness to win a championship. As for Villopoto, Stewart would occasionally be faster, but Villopoto was always far and away the better championship contender and often was putting up the faster laptimes too.

So in conclusion, your statement really only applies to Carmichael in SX.
jsmi33966 wrote:
But in sx Stewart was way past his prime and still would beat RV strait up. Plus RV is spoiled with a bad attitude cut his...
But in sx Stewart was way past his prime and still would beat RV strait up. Plus RV is spoiled with a bad attitude cut his family off wouldn't talk to his little sister for like 3 years.
Haha....what?
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Park Boys 7/30/2018 5:27pm
7/30/2018 5:27pm
NateDawg wrote:
RC regularly put 2 seconds a lap on Stewart and 4-5 seconds a lap on Reed and Windham in 2006.
The Goat did not regularly put 2 sec on Stewart. He was usually a bit quicker than Stewart or a touch off.
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 7/30/2018 6:38pm
7/30/2018 6:38pm
motokiwi wrote:
Tomac would wax RV.
RV would wax RC.
RC would wax MC.

Different eras. The sport progresses.
Sniff,,,,,, not stinky enough.
bbhMoto
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bbhMoto 7/30/2018 7:09pm
7/30/2018 7:09pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2018 7:13pm
Racerx has these fastest lap times for Washougal

2017 Tomac - 2:11 https://racerxonline.com/2017/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal
2012 RD5 - 2:07 https://racerxonline.com/2012/07/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal
2007 RV - 2:21 https://racerxonline.com/2007/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal

Maybe the track changed but RD5 was haulin'
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NateDawg
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NateDawg 7/30/2018 7:45pm
7/30/2018 7:45pm
bbhMoto wrote:
Racerx has these fastest lap times for Washougal 2017 Tomac - 2:11 https://racerxonline.com/2017/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal 2012 RD5 - 2:07 https://racerxonline.com/2012/07/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal 2007 RV - 2:21 https://racerxonline.com/2007/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal Maybe the track...
Racerx has these fastest lap times for Washougal

2017 Tomac - 2:11 https://racerxonline.com/2017/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal
2012 RD5 - 2:07 https://racerxonline.com/2012/07/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal
2007 RV - 2:21 https://racerxonline.com/2007/08/01/sign-of-the-lap-times-washougal

Maybe the track changed but RD5 was haulin'
Literally meaningless.
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gsxr6 7/30/2018 8:13pm
7/30/2018 8:13pm
The record book is the answer to these questions. Besides racing all of his closest competition in the record books, Rc is easily winning in Any era in his prime. There's a reason nobody had gone 24-0........James is a close second based on his style over jumps having to be copied by anyone who wanted to stand a chance. Tomac is a great rider, but the bar Ricky set outdoors and overall championships/race wins, as well as mgraths 7 sx titles , and 72 wins? The only guy who is better than those guys will have to surpass those records. Period.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 7/30/2018 8:29pm
7/30/2018 8:29pm
RC lapped an entire field of pro riders......I don't see much room for debate here.
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toroP
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toroP 7/30/2018 8:36pm
7/30/2018 8:36pm
Just compare him to KR. When Kenny was fully fit, he smoked Tomac repeatedly.

Who consistently beat RC?
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bents 7/30/2018 8:45pm
7/30/2018 8:45pm
RC is the best MX rider we have ever seen, and he beat Everts in his prime in addition to making mincemeat of every rider for a decade outdoors. I understand that it is hard to compare eras, but RC is the only guy we can truly say was the fastest dude ever outdoors. He took no prisoners, ever. He was machinelike in his consistency, and never gave anyone a chance to think they could actually beat him, including Stewart-mentally RC owned everyone. His outdoor records will NEVER be broken, let alone approached. Neither will MC's 7 titles and 72 wins. Both of these records are out in the stratosphere like Gretzky's NHL goals, assists, and total points. Untouchable.
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zehn
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zehn 7/30/2018 8:52pm
7/30/2018 8:52pm
I wish I had something witty to say but I don’t
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rehan53
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rehan53 7/30/2018 8:56pm
7/30/2018 8:56pm
KirkChandler wrote:
Watch the video posted here from 06 Washougal, 06 RC and Stew would give 18 Eli a run for his money: [url=https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/What-Happened-To-Track-Variety,1344048]https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/What-Happened-To-Track-Variety,1344048[/url]
Watch the video posted here from 06 Washougal, 06 RC and Stew would give 18 Eli a run for his money:

https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/What-Happened-To-Track-Variety,1344048

What a special era that was. If Ricky and James were characters in a motocross video game it would be cheating to use them in a race. Absolute masters.

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