Broc Tickle discusses his future

disbanded
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disbanded 5/17/2018 7:38am
5/17/2018 7:38am
yz133rider wrote:
Great that sent me on a 45 minute youtube trip lol
I've somehow gone from watching Broc Tickle's video to John Daly's worst scores and blow-ups compilation...
tingo
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tingo 5/17/2018 7:51am
5/17/2018 7:51am
twotwosix wrote:
You know how easy it would be for him to use a shaker bottle or water bottle that wasn’t ran through a dish washer? This is...
You know how easy it would be for him to use a shaker bottle or water bottle that wasn’t ran through a dish washer? This is just too much. An infraction like this for a first time offender should be a 6 race suspension, (enough to ruin a championship run) with a severe escalation on future penalties #2 and #3. #3 should see you mis a year (or more depending on whether it’s a recreational infraction or a serious doping infraction).

Pardon my language, but this system fucked James Stewart out of our sport and now it’s going to do the same to Broc Tickle too. James had a prescription for a stimulant and Broc accidentally took a supplement containing a stimulant. First time offenders who have stimulants in their urine tests do not deserve multiple year bans. Throw the book at 2nd time offenders of basic infractions for al I care, but not on the 1st time of sch a basic offense.

Failures for EPO, HGH, abnormal epi-testosterone levels, etc, those deserve a 12 month ban for first time offenders, sure. 36 for second time, life for 3rd time.

@DC @GuyB @ML
Tell me why that we can’t self govern SX/MX in this way. I hate the way it is now.
This. It's a shame the current system is set up to absolutely HAMMER first time offenders. Taking Broc at this word that he doesn't know how this stuff (that seems to have very little performance benefit) got his system, it's ludicrous to ban the guy for 4 years, or 2, or even 1. I'd add to your suggested escalating penalty structure that they also put any rider that fails a test on a routine testing program. I'm sure Broc would happily agree to being tested every single week if it meant clearing his name and having the ability to continue with his career.
lostboy819 5/17/2018 8:09am
5/17/2018 8:09am
Tumblin wrote:
So Armstrong lied to protect his legacy and his wealth. Great point, teky.:whistle: But did you not listen to anything Broc said? Did you not pick...
So Armstrong lied to protect his legacy and his wealth. Great point, teky.Whistling

But did you not listen to anything Broc said?
Did you not pick up on the calm resolve and lack of bitterness that came straight from his mouth from just earlier today?

What I got out of it is he knows it somehow got into his system. He also understands there isn't a performance benefit from the chemical for our sport either as it restricts blood flow. He's always worked his ass off and has always shown up ready to race when not hindered with injuries.

Broc is standing and talking straight and open. He's approaching it with the confidence that a true work driven moto master with his intellect and experience can and should do. Without an entourage but with the same methodical determination that he climbed way over yours and my own accomplishments - he will master this nasty new section, as he had since he discovered moto. Just as he had from rookie to SX Champ, then to the premier series, to a new team, through another injury, fending off and rising to the challenge new competition. He will seek answers to this quagmire and will relentlessly commit all of his wherewithal with hard, thought out works and the truth to deal with this ruling to get an actual fair resolution.

Broc is a doer, he's not making excuses. He knows it got in him, but still doesn't know how or from where. He also knows the penalty doesn't serve our sport and he's going to til it deep and our sport will be in a much better place and other careers and mistakes can be made right.

When Broc's works come to fruition I hope that resolve brings him security, respect, admiration, podiums and most important of all - notoriety for pushing our sport to a better place.
Fraser
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Fraser 5/17/2018 8:19am
5/17/2018 8:19am
twotwosix wrote:
You know how easy it would be for him to use a shaker bottle or water bottle that wasn’t ran through a dish washer? This is...
You know how easy it would be for him to use a shaker bottle or water bottle that wasn’t ran through a dish washer? This is just too much. An infraction like this for a first time offender should be a 6 race suspension, (enough to ruin a championship run) with a severe escalation on future penalties #2 and #3. #3 should see you mis a year (or more depending on whether it’s a recreational infraction or a serious doping infraction).

Pardon my language, but this system fucked James Stewart out of our sport and now it’s going to do the same to Broc Tickle too. James had a prescription for a stimulant and Broc accidentally took a supplement containing a stimulant. First time offenders who have stimulants in their urine tests do not deserve multiple year bans. Throw the book at 2nd time offenders of basic infractions for al I care, but not on the 1st time of sch a basic offense.

Failures for EPO, HGH, abnormal epi-testosterone levels, etc, those deserve a 12 month ban for first time offenders, sure. 36 for second time, life for 3rd time.

@DC @GuyB @ML
Tell me why that we can’t self govern SX/MX in this way. I hate the way it is now.
The only way that bottle theory works is if someone else in his team IS using and he took theirs by mistake..hmm didn't the other all pass clean?

James Stewart failed a test for amphetamines. Yes he claimed it was from Adderall and he then got a prescription and subsequently was granted a TUE for it. BUT he could never again put together a decent ride at the levels the prescription allowed.

If riders didn't use banned substances, none of them would get bans.

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TXDirt
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TXDirt 5/17/2018 8:21am
5/17/2018 8:21am
ML512 wrote:
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should...
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should come up soon enough.

KTM faces a problem with sponsors, many could sue due to parts of their contracts that cover riders and illegal substance use. Brands like Red Bull won’t touch professional road cycling due to not wanting any relation to this. In cycling, most teams drop a rider that tests positive as it can get them fined by sponsors or even have them bail entirely. It’s corporate policy and it’s in Broc’s contract, that’s why Broc mentions knowing what the outcome would be.
What other rider got booted from his team?
ando
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ando 5/17/2018 8:31am
5/17/2018 8:31am
billyp330 wrote:
How could racing in Canada effect his suspension in any way? They are not FIM nor AMA affiliated and he will be suspended from FIM (and...
How could racing in Canada effect his suspension in any way? They are not FIM nor AMA affiliated and he will be suspended from FIM (and AMA since they honor WADA regulations) sanctioned races dating from his last FIM/AMA race from what they stated in the video. Initiating his suspension based on a Canadian race would be equivalent to starting his suspension based on the last date he went out for a practice day. Am I missing something?
I’m pretty sure that WADA suspensions cover all competition. Any FIM or affiliated series simply wouldn’t let him compete. Non-affiliated series might let him compete, but he’d be risking further suspension by WADA.
ando
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ando 5/17/2018 8:41am
5/17/2018 8:41am
tingo wrote:
This. It's a shame the current system is set up to absolutely HAMMER first time offenders. Taking Broc at this word that he doesn't know how...
This. It's a shame the current system is set up to absolutely HAMMER first time offenders. Taking Broc at this word that he doesn't know how this stuff (that seems to have very little performance benefit) got his system, it's ludicrous to ban the guy for 4 years, or 2, or even 1. I'd add to your suggested escalating penalty structure that they also put any rider that fails a test on a routine testing program. I'm sure Broc would happily agree to being tested every single week if it meant clearing his name and having the ability to continue with his career.
Imagine you work for WADA, handling this case. You’ve seen many failed tests and every excuse under the sun. You publish what’s legal and what’s not. You’ve progressively increased penalties over the years as deterrent. You have a documented process for genuine therapeutic use.

Exactly how do you distinguish between innocent mistake, ignorance, negligence and deliberate cheating?

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milliebays 5/17/2018 8:48am
5/17/2018 8:48am
Did he take any NSF certified supps? Any NON NSF supps? Yes or No on both Brock. Tell us.
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PRM31 5/17/2018 8:51am
5/17/2018 8:51am
When I read the WADA description for the stuff Broc tested positive for, it clearly stated it was illegal "during competition only". The other drugs did not have that qualifier. It left me with the impression it could be used during training, but it had to be out of your system for competition. Anyone in the know have insight on whether that's at all true?
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MXMiKEMX 5/17/2018 8:53am
5/17/2018 8:53am
I am surprised that Broc has not reached out to JS7. I mean, JS7 has gone through this, so why not reach out and see if James could provide any advice?
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billyp330 5/17/2018 8:57am
5/17/2018 8:57am
billyp330 wrote:
I hope that was written before the recent video was released as in the video Broc states he tested Bakers supplement and it came back clean...
I hope that was written before the recent video was released as in the video Broc states he tested Bakers supplement and it came back clean. He also states that he doesn't feel wronged by KTM in any way and expected his termination when he received his B sample results.

I also feel like KTM should stick with him, however I'd imagine his contract wasn't getting renewed regardless of this whole ordeal so why would they keep him now that he is suspended?
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off...
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off to Alpinestars for supporting Broc through the entire process.
ML512 wrote:
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should...
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should come up soon enough.

KTM faces a problem with sponsors, many could sue due to parts of their contracts that cover riders and illegal substance use. Brands like Red Bull won’t touch professional road cycling due to not wanting any relation to this. In cycling, most teams drop a rider that tests positive as it can get them fined by sponsors or even have them bail entirely. It’s corporate policy and it’s in Broc’s contract, that’s why Broc mentions knowing what the outcome would be.
Please tell...
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Johnny Ringo 5/17/2018 8:58am
5/17/2018 8:58am
I'm guessing Bradley Taft
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kongols 5/17/2018 9:00am
5/17/2018 9:00am
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off...
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off to Alpinestars for supporting Broc through the entire process.
ML512 wrote:
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should...
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should come up soon enough.

KTM faces a problem with sponsors, many could sue due to parts of their contracts that cover riders and illegal substance use. Brands like Red Bull won’t touch professional road cycling due to not wanting any relation to this. In cycling, most teams drop a rider that tests positive as it can get them fined by sponsors or even have them bail entirely. It’s corporate policy and it’s in Broc’s contract, that’s why Broc mentions knowing what the outcome would be.
billyp330 wrote:
Please tell...
Yes, please tell.
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Ride Smooth 5/17/2018 9:15am
5/17/2018 9:15am
Maybe I missed it, but has anyone asked Aldon to weigh in with his own hypothesis or is Aldon trying to stay as far away from this as possible? With as much knowledge as he must have (or should have) in this field, Aldon might be able to provide some insight as to how this "could" have happened, if in fact, it was accidental.
Obviously Broc, and all Baker Boys, are on their own a % of each week, thus Aldon cannot be 100% responsible for what they "might" ingest when not with Aldon. But again, from all of his years of experience, he must have some information that could help Broc either prove his innocence or understand how this positive test happened.
I wonder if KTM asked Aldon for his thoughts? I wonder if Aldon has been in contact with Broc since the results were released on the B test or if he was immediately cutoff once his KTM contract was terminated?
mattyhamz2 5/17/2018 9:16am
5/17/2018 9:16am
billyp330 wrote:
I hope that was written before the recent video was released as in the video Broc states he tested Bakers supplement and it came back clean...
I hope that was written before the recent video was released as in the video Broc states he tested Bakers supplement and it came back clean. He also states that he doesn't feel wronged by KTM in any way and expected his termination when he received his B sample results.

I also feel like KTM should stick with him, however I'd imagine his contract wasn't getting renewed regardless of this whole ordeal so why would they keep him now that he is suspended?
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off...
It was, but there are more supplements to be tested. He won’t say it for PR reasons but KTM is taking the chickenshit route. Hats off to Alpinestars for supporting Broc through the entire process.
ML512 wrote:
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should...
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should come up soon enough.

KTM faces a problem with sponsors, many could sue due to parts of their contracts that cover riders and illegal substance use. Brands like Red Bull won’t touch professional road cycling due to not wanting any relation to this. In cycling, most teams drop a rider that tests positive as it can get them fined by sponsors or even have them bail entirely. It’s corporate policy and it’s in Broc’s contract, that’s why Broc mentions knowing what the outcome would be.
Has the news of him getting booted come up already? Or will it be coming out with the riders name soon?
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DonM 5/17/2018 9:44am
5/17/2018 9:44am
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
http://www.motoxaddicts.com/2018/05/17/cookseys-hard-truth-the-broc-tic…
DonM wrote:
Good article Chris but there are some assumptions and falsehoods in it. First you're assuming that the tainted supplement was supplied by Aldon and not something...
Good article Chris but there are some assumptions and falsehoods in it. First you're assuming that the tainted supplement was supplied by Aldon and not something that Broc mistakenly took on his own. Broc even states in his interview that he had the supplements tested that were supplied by Aldon and they came back negative, he has zero reason to protect KTM or Aldon...he knows it's on him.
Unfortunately it's in the KTM contracts (from Austria) of what happens when a rider tests positive in a drug test, so I wouldn't call that the easy way out. All of Aldon's riders have been tested throughout the season and one is on the list to be on call for random tests for the year...they all have been tested clean on multiple occasions.
It's really unfortunate with what's happened to Broc...it's actually unfair...I hope he is successful in arguing his case so a precedent can be set for future penalties in MX/SX that makes more sense in terms of the average career span for racers.
Chris_Cooksey wrote:
Tickle and Marvin are the only Baker guys that have been tested. Anderson, Nope and 250 Supercross riders are NOT subject to tests.
Anderson has been tested multiple times as he is in the program where they can test him at random regardless of where he is...this is not an Aldon thing although your article tries to imply that along with the conspiracy that KTM is protecting Aldon and that Aldon's program parallels those in cycling that have been caught...unfair, unsubstantiated and biased on your part.
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GrapeApe 5/17/2018 9:44am
5/17/2018 9:44am
ML512 wrote:
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should...
Pretty much every team has a similar contract and there’s currently another rider who got booted from his team for a failed test...which I’m guesisng should come up soon enough.

KTM faces a problem with sponsors, many could sue due to parts of their contracts that cover riders and illegal substance use. Brands like Red Bull won’t touch professional road cycling due to not wanting any relation to this. In cycling, most teams drop a rider that tests positive as it can get them fined by sponsors or even have them bail entirely. It’s corporate policy and it’s in Broc’s contract, that’s why Broc mentions knowing what the outcome would be.
billyp330 wrote:
Please tell...
kongols wrote:
Yes, please tell.
Reading between the lines . . . https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Bradley-Taft-and-Rock-River-Yamaha,1339308

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Apple_and_the_tree 5/17/2018 9:54am
5/17/2018 9:54am
billyp330 wrote:
How could racing in Canada effect his suspension in any way? They are not FIM nor AMA affiliated and he will be suspended from FIM (and...
How could racing in Canada effect his suspension in any way? They are not FIM nor AMA affiliated and he will be suspended from FIM (and AMA since they honor WADA regulations) sanctioned races dating from his last FIM/AMA race from what they stated in the video. Initiating his suspension based on a Canadian race would be equivalent to starting his suspension based on the last date he went out for a practice day. Am I missing something?
When the FIM/WADA say you can't do something, and you go out of your way to another jurisdiction to do it, they feel like they've been undermined.

I would bet $$ that at some point in the very near future, that IF Brock goes to Canada, that "black market" will be shorn up QUICKLY.

Cade Classon pissed off the FIM by merely doing a couple podcasts, making the FIM look stupid when he talked at length about his new ride in Canada.

Remember when the FIM/Wada told JS7 straight up to not even ride or train? They take this shit (too much imo) super serious.

I still wonder about the actual legalities in America about the ability to disallow someone from making money over a certain amount of damage etc.
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MelonFan123 5/17/2018 10:15am
5/17/2018 10:15am Edited Date/Time 5/17/2018 10:16am
So if this other rider is Taft, does that mean 250 riders are tested?

I would assume they are but Cooksey claimed they're not...
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GrapeApe 5/17/2018 10:19am
5/17/2018 10:19am
MelonFan123 wrote:
So if this other rider is Taft, does that mean 250 riders are tested?

I would assume they are but Cooksey claimed they're not...
I don't know the answer, but Taft raced the 450 class at Daytona
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ML512 5/17/2018 10:20am
5/17/2018 10:20am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't know the answer, but Taft raced the 450 class at Daytona
And WADA was at Daytona. To clarify, I'm not totally sure if Taft's test was WADA or internal team, I've heard different versions.
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ML512 5/17/2018 10:21am
5/17/2018 10:21am
MelonFan123 wrote:
So if this other rider is Taft, does that mean 250 riders are tested?

I would assume they are but Cooksey claimed they're not...
250 Supercross isn't tested but Taft raced a couple 450 rounds. 450 Supercross is tested by WADA, 450 and 250 outdoors are tested by USADA.
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MelonFan123 5/17/2018 10:26am
5/17/2018 10:26am
ML512 wrote:
250 Supercross isn't tested but Taft raced a couple 450 rounds. 450 Supercross is tested by WADA, 450 and 250 outdoors are tested by USADA.
Thanks for clarifying, I forgot Taft had raced a few 450 races.

Whats the reason for 250 SX guys not being tested? Are the classes still technically split between sanctioning body's, with the AMA overseeing 250 and FIM overseeing 450? I remember some sort of arrangement like that years back
mattyhamz2 5/17/2018 10:27am
5/17/2018 10:27am
MelonFan123 wrote:
So if this other rider is Taft, does that mean 250 riders are tested?

I would assume they are but Cooksey claimed they're not...
ML512 wrote:
250 Supercross isn't tested but Taft raced a couple 450 rounds. 450 Supercross is tested by WADA, 450 and 250 outdoors are tested by USADA.
Do you know the reasoning of not testing the 250 class?
lostboy819 5/17/2018 10:43am
5/17/2018 10:43am
ando wrote:
Imagine you work for WADA, handling this case. You’ve seen many failed tests and every excuse under the sun. You publish what’s legal and what’s not...
Imagine you work for WADA, handling this case. You’ve seen many failed tests and every excuse under the sun. You publish what’s legal and what’s not. You’ve progressively increased penalties over the years as deterrent. You have a documented process for genuine therapeutic use.

Exactly how do you distinguish between innocent mistake, ignorance, negligence and deliberate cheating?

Exactly and it makes zero difference if its a "honest mistake" or deliberate . Broc failed a test and now he has to pay the price.
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avidchimp 5/17/2018 10:58am
5/17/2018 10:58am
MelonFan123 wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, I forgot Taft had raced a few 450 races. Whats the reason for 250 SX guys not being tested? Are the classes still...
Thanks for clarifying, I forgot Taft had raced a few 450 races.

Whats the reason for 250 SX guys not being tested? Are the classes still technically split between sanctioning body's, with the AMA overseeing 250 and FIM overseeing 450? I remember some sort of arrangement like that years back
Correct. 250's in SX are not an FIM sanctioned class.
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tingo 5/17/2018 11:15am
5/17/2018 11:15am
ando wrote:
Imagine you work for WADA, handling this case. You’ve seen many failed tests and every excuse under the sun. You publish what’s legal and what’s not...
Imagine you work for WADA, handling this case. You’ve seen many failed tests and every excuse under the sun. You publish what’s legal and what’s not. You’ve progressively increased penalties over the years as deterrent. You have a documented process for genuine therapeutic use.

Exactly how do you distinguish between innocent mistake, ignorance, negligence and deliberate cheating?

You can't distinguish between accidental and intentional, and I'm not suggesting you can, so the issue isn't using discretion to say a "nice" guy like Broc should get a pass because we believe him, the issue is that the penalties are structured to throw the baby out with the bath water. Lower the penalties for first time offenses for these lesser PEDs that are unlikely to be abused in the first place. The list of stuff these guys get tested for is huge and it is entirely plausible to have one of these substances in your body with no clue how it got there.

IMO, Broc deserves a fine, loss of points and purse for this SX season, a ban on the rest of the SX season, and is placed on probationary testing (test him at every round if you want) for a year. Any future positive tests result in much harsher penalties. THIS arrangement still discourages PED use in the sport, without totally screwing up one's career over what very well could be an innocent mistake. IF Broc (or any other athlete) consumed something intentionally, the above penalties should still teach them a lesson, and also nail their ass if they get caught again with more frequent testing.
500guy
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500guy 5/17/2018 11:19am
5/17/2018 11:19am
I just think the penalties are to steep.

A 2-4 race ban (first offense) would end any title hopes. A 1 yr ban would be real bad (2nd offense) and a 4 yr ban would be career ending.

No need to end a career on a first offense especially since it's not steroids or EPO's
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billyp330 5/17/2018 11:35am
5/17/2018 11:35am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't know the answer, but Taft raced the 450 class at Daytona
ML512 wrote:
And WADA was at Daytona. To clarify, I'm not totally sure if Taft's test was WADA or internal team, I've heard different versions.
I could be completely wrong, but I wouldn't think teams, especially smaller satellite teams, would do their own internal testing. Unless maybe they need a reason to break a rider contract and all ready know or believe the rider will fail the test?

Also, if Taft failed a WADA test and the team and Vital already knows about it, why no PR?

Post a reply to: Broc Tickle discusses his future