Don't leave the door open

devindavisphoto 4/21/2018 11:33pm
4/21/2018 11:33pm
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where Marvin wanted to go.

jemcee
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jemcee 4/21/2018 11:43pm
4/21/2018 11:43pm
devindavisphoto wrote:
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where...
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where Marvin wanted to go.

I agree and Marvin was committed to his line here
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Crush 4/22/2018 12:03am
4/22/2018 12:03am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2018 12:04am
devindavisphoto wrote:
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where...
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where Marvin wanted to go.

jemcee wrote:
I agree and Marvin was committed to his line here [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/21/256793/s1200_01.jpg[/img]
I agree and Marvin was committed to his line here
He definitely knew Eli was going tight because all the outside lines start wider than where he was, but more importantly, he didn’t give a fuck where Eli was going, he was already committed to crossing every single one of those lines. You could argue it’s a block pass without those rugs but everyone knows what is gonna happen if you commit in a corner with ruts like that. Was boot on throat, no ifs or buts. Any other explanation is just waffle.
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Motoxdoc 4/22/2018 12:05am
4/22/2018 12:05am
Kind of a take out move; he didn't leave Eli any time to back out...but I don't think he meant for it to go down like that (as explained by devindavisphoto)...and it's refreshing as hell to see Marv get agressive! I wonder, was that a sarcastic thumbs-up gesture from Eli?...Like a, "Good job buddy, now I owe you one!"

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jeffro503
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jeffro503 4/22/2018 12:09am
4/22/2018 12:09am
Autotech1957 wrote:
Guy that wears #22 has made a career of that stuff. Nobody had anything bad to say about him when he did it.
There is literally 5000 threads here on vital , on that very subject. Blink
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jeffro503 4/22/2018 12:12am
4/22/2018 12:12am
devindavisphoto wrote:
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where...
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where Marvin wanted to go.

Eli using imaginary ruts.......Marv , just going completely across them.

Actually a big fan of both dudes and chalk it up to aggressive racing. Like real aggressive.

Let them settle it on the track.
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jemcee 4/22/2018 12:14am
4/22/2018 12:14am
Crush wrote:
He definitely knew Eli was going tight because all the outside lines start wider than where he was, but more importantly, he didn’t give a fuck...
He definitely knew Eli was going tight because all the outside lines start wider than where he was, but more importantly, he didn’t give a fuck where Eli was going, he was already committed to crossing every single one of those lines. You could argue it’s a block pass without those rugs but everyone knows what is gonna happen if you commit in a corner with ruts like that. Was boot on throat, no ifs or buts. Any other explanation is just waffle.
I agree he was going in to make contact but maybe not quite as much as he made.. and when he'd made his decision to 'go' Eli wasn't even in the corner yet.. but all that said I just think Marvin is (needlessly) protecting himself from all the 'cheap shot' talk..
I'd love it if he just played up to it and really got under Tomac's skin haha but he's not that guy
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22Ryann 4/22/2018 12:16am
4/22/2018 12:16am
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Crush 4/22/2018 12:21am
4/22/2018 12:21am
jemcee wrote:
I agree he was going in to make contact but maybe not quite as much as he made.. and when he'd made his decision to 'go'...
I agree he was going in to make contact but maybe not quite as much as he made.. and when he'd made his decision to 'go' Eli wasn't even in the corner yet.. but all that said I just think Marvin is (needlessly) protecting himself from all the 'cheap shot' talk..
I'd love it if he just played up to it and really got under Tomac's skin haha but he's not that guy
I don’t think he needs Eli in the corner to know where he’s going. He started in the middle where the inside ruts started, and even if he went three ruts wider, Marvin wasn’t already committing to cutting his wheel out.

He knew it, for sure. He did say it’s for a win, but that’s about all he needs to say.
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King KTM 4/22/2018 12:26am
4/22/2018 12:26am
LoudLove wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/21/256726/s1200_IMG_2541.jpg[/img]
I was a solid Eli was whining right up until i saw this picture.
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StartedTooLate 4/22/2018 12:31am
4/22/2018 12:31am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2018 12:39am
devindavisphoto wrote:
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where...
To extend on my point above. I think he expected Eli to hit the berm where the green line is at, while the orange is where Marvin wanted to go.

Marv thought Eli was going to cross 3 ruts at a 30 degree angle? That is absurd. You ride across ruts at a squarish angle, and then pivot, or you are in the rut. No one crosses ruts at a shallow angle...that will put you on the dirt.

The idea behind a block pass is you DON't turn. The dividing line between a good block pass, a bad one, and a blatant take out is judgement on whether you can get to the spot....are you too far back?

A good clean block pass, you beat your man to the spot, he has to check up, and you pass him. If your judgement is off, and you try to pull it off from too far back...you take out his front wheel. We are talking a few tenths of a second off in your judgment. Forgivable. If you center punch your competitors bike, you clearly had your head up your ass (Alessi-Tickle is the ultimate head up ass take out).

Marv was about half way between "forgivable misjudgement" and "head up ass" territory. It all comes down to how you feel about what is acceptable to get a win and make some money. For instance, RV gives Marv the thumbs up....the ends (win 100K) justifies the means (take out)...while McGrath says it was over the line, and winning that way is not worth it. When the best and 3rd best SX racers ever disagree...then it clearly is a judgement call that could go either way.

One thing is for sure, Eli owes him one. If in a year or two, Marv is leading the standings, and Eli decides it is time for payback, Marv better not bitch about it.... He has one coming...and Eli gets to choose when it is payback time.
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seth505 4/22/2018 1:49am
4/22/2018 1:49am
seth505 wrote:
No disrespect they are both awesome riders obviously, but Eli was a crybaby on that one. Look as they enter the turn, they aren't even close...
No disrespect they are both awesome riders obviously, but Eli was a crybaby on that one. Look as they enter the turn, they aren't even close to each other and Eli turns down as tight as possible.

Question for the Eli fanbus, why was Marvin even able to get close to him in that corner? Shouldn't Eli have just dropped him once he passed him several turns ago?
Mr.Trickle wrote:
Why was Eli able to get by Marv. Marv led for 20 minutes, why didn’t he drop Eli?
Because Eli caught up to him.
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Pigspit 4/22/2018 1:54am
4/22/2018 1:54am
I think pretty much any racer in that position would have gone for the same pass.

And pretty much any racer that had that move pulled on them would be pissed.

Has nothing to do with right or wrong, it's racing.
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Bearuno 4/22/2018 2:10am
4/22/2018 2:10am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2018 2:13am
This is SX, Boys.

Nasty little tracks, plonked down in stadiums, for the edification of the (at times, blood thirsty) crowds.

A reincarnation of the Roman 'Games' for modern times.

A serious percentage of passes are very aggressive. It's almost the only way to pass at times.

Every rider has 'served up' other riders, And been 'served up'.

The squealing from fanbois and haters alike, is rather silly.

"Don't leave the Door open" - indeed.
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Do_Work 4/22/2018 2:23am
4/22/2018 2:23am
I've never heard of a roman warrior who makes excuses for why he sucker punched his opponent (who was trying to fight straight up fair). Do you blame the crowd for booing?
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Bearuno 4/22/2018 2:41am
4/22/2018 2:41am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2018 2:43am
The Crowd can boo all they want.

And Cheer, all they want.

I don't give a fuck. It's pack / crowd / horde mentality.

We are watching a Circus. As I said, shitty, vicious little tracks, plonked down in front of the stands, with people, many of who will go to Monster Trucks when they come through, waiting to be 'Entertained'.

Their booing and cheering, shows them as being thoroughly 'Entertained'. A fair few have their villain(s), and their hero(s).

This sort of pass, is pretty much par for the course - and, as so many here have mentioned, it's for $100,000.

I'm more surprised that Tomac left the door open, so wide. Pretty much inviting such a hard - yes, vicious - pass.

I'm no fanboi or hater of either rider. And with SX, it's what I see so much of - hard, and, indeed vicious riding promoted by the very nature / setting of the Sport / Circus that it is.
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TDeath21 4/22/2018 4:02am
4/22/2018 4:02am
The Eli fanboy butthurt in this thread is hilarious.

Last lap for the win in a 450 main, anything aside from a straight T-bone (Alessi-Tickle style) is fair game. Marvin was aggressive and went for the win. Tomac had poor awareness and didn’t see it coming and/or plan for it. End result is Musquin winning.

Tomac was a little bitch about it afterwards.

Anyone at the stadium who booed Musquin is a little bitch too and should never attend a SX race again.

Hopefully Tomac sees it for what it is during the week and realizes that it was an aggressive move for the win and not nearly as bad as he makes it out to be.

In other news, yet again Tomac takes forever to get going after hitting the dirt, losing a ton more time in the process. Ended up not costing him a position though.

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jeffro961 4/22/2018 4:09am
4/22/2018 4:09am
Bearuno wrote:
The Crowd can boo all they want. And Cheer, all they want. I don't give a fuck. It's pack / crowd / horde mentality. We are...
The Crowd can boo all they want.

And Cheer, all they want.

I don't give a fuck. It's pack / crowd / horde mentality.

We are watching a Circus. As I said, shitty, vicious little tracks, plonked down in front of the stands, with people, many of who will go to Monster Trucks when they come through, waiting to be 'Entertained'.

Their booing and cheering, shows them as being thoroughly 'Entertained'. A fair few have their villain(s), and their hero(s).

This sort of pass, is pretty much par for the course - and, as so many here have mentioned, it's for $100,000.

I'm more surprised that Tomac left the door open, so wide. Pretty much inviting such a hard - yes, vicious - pass.

I'm no fanboi or hater of either rider. And with SX, it's what I see so much of - hard, and, indeed vicious riding promoted by the very nature / setting of the Sport / Circus that it is.
I agree 100% with you bear and Tomac should re-watch his 17 Vegas race to remind himself of what cheap shots really are.
liver_liver 4/22/2018 4:37am
4/22/2018 4:37am
The only "cheap shot" in this case was Marv calling out previous incidents on him, and between other riders.
MR. X
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MR. X 4/22/2018 4:38am
4/22/2018 4:38am
They should just go to to a last man standing format from now on ,just keep smashing guys til one guy is left standing .
Zocrik
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Zocrik 4/22/2018 4:45am
4/22/2018 4:45am

Tomac got style for days
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just James 4/22/2018 4:48am
4/22/2018 4:48am
I bet Tyler Bowers grinned a little when he watched the tape of it. Stuff like that is just another day at the office in arenacross.
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BobKerr 4/22/2018 4:50am
4/22/2018 4:50am
Payback can be a bitch! LOL!
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slotsquid 4/22/2018 5:47am
4/22/2018 5:47am

Marvin should have said "I am paid to win races and I did my job"

whateversclever69 4/22/2018 5:53am
4/22/2018 5:53am
I don’t like either of them. Eli is acting like a 14 year old boy. Marvin is too scared to stand behind his decision with a backbone. Both of them are dweebs. Eli fans, however, are just as sensitive as the overgrown child they so adore. This whole situation is hilarious.

Eli is not in the title hunt whatsoever. Took 35 seconds to get back on the bike AGAIN. Dude can’t take a hit metaphorically or literally. Here’s your proof.
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HenryA 4/22/2018 6:10am
4/22/2018 6:10am
Amazing that Marvin didn't derail his chain when Tomacs bars went into his rear sprocket.Blink
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ML512 4/22/2018 6:24am
4/22/2018 6:24am
cdm806 wrote:
One of these guys has both the most sx race wins in history as well as the most titles. The other guy quit after he fell...
One of these guys has both the most sx race wins in history as well as the most titles. The other guy quit after he fell off the back of his bike. Case closed.
The “other guy” has the second most titles ever, one more than Jeremy McGrath and has him tied for most SX titles consecutively at four.
2smokertillend 4/22/2018 6:31am
4/22/2018 6:31am
A couple of years down the rode, what will be remembered about this racing incident? Marvin for the win !! Stamp it !!
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JAFO92 4/22/2018 6:56am
4/22/2018 6:56am
whateversclever69 wrote:
I don’t like either of them. Eli is acting like a 14 year old boy. Marvin is too scared to stand behind his decision with a...
I don’t like either of them. Eli is acting like a 14 year old boy. Marvin is too scared to stand behind his decision with a backbone. Both of them are dweebs. Eli fans, however, are just as sensitive as the overgrown child they so adore. This whole situation is hilarious.

Eli is not in the title hunt whatsoever. Took 35 seconds to get back on the bike AGAIN. Dude can’t take a hit metaphorically or literally. Here’s your proof.
^ Yep
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