A couple simple questions on drug testing...

logan_140
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4/15/2018 9:22am
logan_140 wrote:
When an nfl player violates the substance abuse policy they get 4 games first offense... we jump straight to 365 days in sx/Mx..
MR. X wrote:
Are the players tested by the NFL and not an outside testing company ?
That i am not sure on.. however the penalty goes up every time they violate it. Either way moto has to do something different. 365 days is to much
Betuel
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4/15/2018 9:37am
It is great they test for performance enhancing drugs in SX, you moto guys are funny with the whole "get out of here with testing, leave...
It is great they test for performance enhancing drugs in SX, you moto guys are funny with the whole "get out of here with testing, leave us alone".....why are you so different than any other sport? Play by the rules, its a simple philosophy.
These are the same guys who are the recreational drug users and they dont like anyone to be restricted on the use of drugs, of any kind.
Robgvx
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4/15/2018 10:09am
If the AMA did the testing, and found the same results, which they would, could you imagine what would be said here?
honda907
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4/15/2018 10:30am
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is acceptable and he should be slapped on the wrist. It has some form of performance in athletics and is documented. Further, it sets a bad, very bad, example for younger people and those aspiring to motocross as a professional. Athletes need to be held accountable since they are on the public eye. That is the price for fame and fortune

One last point. He signed his name to get his pro card. He read, or should of read what he signed. The rules of conduct are spelled out. It should be NO SURPRISE to anyone involved at the penalties imposed. It is All spelled out when he applied for his card. Not any different than an employer firing you for failing a drug test, if that's their policy.

The Shop

Flatliner
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4/15/2018 10:59am
honda907 wrote:
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is...
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is acceptable and he should be slapped on the wrist. It has some form of performance in athletics and is documented. Further, it sets a bad, very bad, example for younger people and those aspiring to motocross as a professional. Athletes need to be held accountable since they are on the public eye. That is the price for fame and fortune

One last point. He signed his name to get his pro card. He read, or should of read what he signed. The rules of conduct are spelled out. It should be NO SURPRISE to anyone involved at the penalties imposed. It is All spelled out when he applied for his card. Not any different than an employer firing you for failing a drug test, if that's their policy.
Given what the substance is, it does not set a bad example. Sorry. Your viewing it with blinders on because it’s banned. Effedrine is banned. I looked this morning as I took some with my caffeine and aspirin. The list is too big.

That’s an ingredient found in many over the counter pre workout supplements. I feel like this is what people are missing.

The punishment needs to fit the crime. Speeding in a car, vs theft obviously yields different punishments. For “banned” substances it should be the same scale. 4 years for something fairly common? Cmon now.

When sharapova was suspended she had been taking something that was legal, then later banned. Do you think wada provided justification for why they once found it ok, then changed their minds? Of course not. They are the judge , jury and executioner.

honda907
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4/15/2018 11:32am
honda907 wrote:
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is...
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is acceptable and he should be slapped on the wrist. It has some form of performance in athletics and is documented. Further, it sets a bad, very bad, example for younger people and those aspiring to motocross as a professional. Athletes need to be held accountable since they are on the public eye. That is the price for fame and fortune

One last point. He signed his name to get his pro card. He read, or should of read what he signed. The rules of conduct are spelled out. It should be NO SURPRISE to anyone involved at the penalties imposed. It is All spelled out when he applied for his card. Not any different than an employer firing you for failing a drug test, if that's their policy.
Flatliner wrote:
Given what the substance is, it does not set a bad example. Sorry. Your viewing it with blinders on because it’s banned. Effedrine is banned. I...
Given what the substance is, it does not set a bad example. Sorry. Your viewing it with blinders on because it’s banned. Effedrine is banned. I looked this morning as I took some with my caffeine and aspirin. The list is too big.

That’s an ingredient found in many over the counter pre workout supplements. I feel like this is what people are missing.

The punishment needs to fit the crime. Speeding in a car, vs theft obviously yields different punishments. For “banned” substances it should be the same scale. 4 years for something fairly common? Cmon now.

When sharapova was suspended she had been taking something that was legal, then later banned. Do you think wada provided justification for why they once found it ok, then changed their minds? Of course not. They are the judge , jury and executioner.

In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it. If it's legal over the counter or not, it was in the paperwork as a substance banned

My point is if it is on the list as "banned", he signed the paperwork and submitted it for his po card. Even if you don't think it's right, it was all spelled out and he knew the consequences. That is if he read the forms he signed.

No crime has been committed towards Broc. Broc didn't abide by the rules he put his John Hancock too and he broke the agreement(s,) and now has been assessed a penity that was in his paper work for his FIM pro card.
Asimo
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4/15/2018 11:36am
honda907 wrote:
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it...
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it. If it's legal over the counter or not, it was in the paperwork as a substance banned

My point is if it is on the list as "banned", he signed the paperwork and submitted it for his po card. Even if you don't think it's right, it was all spelled out and he knew the consequences. That is if he read the forms he signed.

No crime has been committed towards Broc. Broc didn't abide by the rules he put his John Hancock too and he broke the agreement(s,) and now has been assessed a penity that was in his paper work for his FIM pro card.
First sentence, No it hasn't.
honda907
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4/15/2018 11:44am
honda907 wrote:
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it...
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it. If it's legal over the counter or not, it was in the paperwork as a substance banned

My point is if it is on the list as "banned", he signed the paperwork and submitted it for his po card. Even if you don't think it's right, it was all spelled out and he knew the consequences. That is if he read the forms he signed.

No crime has been committed towards Broc. Broc didn't abide by the rules he put his John Hancock too and he broke the agreement(s,) and now has been assessed a penity that was in his paper work for his FIM pro card.
Asimo wrote:
First sentence, No it hasn't.
Thank you. I saw some controversy on it in another thread. That's why I said what I said in that first paragraph

But it is banned by WADA and that's what counts in this case...............
honda907
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4/15/2018 11:51am
honda907 wrote:
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it...
In another thread, the substance in question has been pulled from the shelf according to FDA papers. Non the less, there is some controversy on it. If it's legal over the counter or not, it was in the paperwork as a substance banned

My point is if it is on the list as "banned", he signed the paperwork and submitted it for his po card. Even if you don't think it's right, it was all spelled out and he knew the consequences. That is if he read the forms he signed.

No crime has been committed towards Broc. Broc didn't abide by the rules he put his John Hancock too and he broke the agreement(s,) and now has been assessed a penity that was in his paper work for his FIM pro card.
Asimo wrote:
First sentence, No it hasn't.
honda907 wrote:
Thank you. I saw some controversy on it in another thread. That's why I said what I said in that first paragraph But it is banned...
Thank you. I saw some controversy on it in another thread. That's why I said what I said in that first paragraph

But it is banned by WADA and that's what counts in this case...............
And if a rider signed to get a Pro card and in the paperwork it said that " Banned for life for eating Cheetos or having Cheetos in your presence." and this happened, the sanctioning body has every right to ban that athlete for life.

I am not saying I think the punishment fits the crime, but someone has to be accountable. I think everyone was but Broc, and now the penalty has been assessed.

So maybe to get around this we need a union. Maybe it will start, and then this sport will compensate the riders better in terms of safety and pay.
4/15/2018 12:01pm
honda907 wrote:
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is...
Many people on here think that a crime has been committed towards Broc. I find it very ironic today that many think that this stuff is acceptable and he should be slapped on the wrist. It has some form of performance in athletics and is documented. Further, it sets a bad, very bad, example for younger people and those aspiring to motocross as a professional. Athletes need to be held accountable since they are on the public eye. That is the price for fame and fortune

One last point. He signed his name to get his pro card. He read, or should of read what he signed. The rules of conduct are spelled out. It should be NO SURPRISE to anyone involved at the penalties imposed. It is All spelled out when he applied for his card. Not any different than an employer firing you for failing a drug test, if that's their policy.
You are right. However, it get's out of hand when the substance list is so extensive and ridiculous that these guys have to pay people to analyze their diet's and supplements. So much so, they normally eat/drink the same meals on the weekend to avoid any chances of making a mistake by ingesting a different ingredient unknowingly.

As more information is rolling out it seems more like a mishap than an intentional misuse of the substance. I think the rumor is it was a cold/allergy medication?

Not exactly WADA but from USADA:

Cold/Allergy/Cough: There are many cold and flu products and their formulations change frequently. It is essential to review the status of each active ingredient in the product before you take it. The following products and ingredients are permitted: dextromethorphan, Flonase, guaifenesin, Tussinex, loratadine, naphazoline, oxymetazoline, phenylephrine, promethazine, and tetrahydrozoline.

This was such an issue that about 6-7 years ago they actually put out this:

This advisory comes after multiple announcements that athletes around the world have tested positive for methylhexaneamine, a prohibited stimulant. Methylhexaneamine is known by many names including 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA), dimethylpentylamine (DMP) 4-methylhexan-2-amine, Geranamine, and geranium oil, extract, or stems and leaves. Many products sold as dietary supplements openly list this substance on their labels, such as Jack3d (USP Labs), Lipo-6-Black and Hemo-Rage Black (Nutrex), Spriodex (Gaspari Nutrition), F-10 (Advanced Genetics), Clear Shot (E-Pharm), 1.M.R. (BPI Sports) and many others.

While it is not known whether the above products actually contain methylhexaneamine, athletes should steer clear of products that advertise to contain these substances.

Also, if “geranium” is listed as an ingredient on the label of a supplement, be advised that the product may contain synthetic methylhexaneamine. We have also seen instances where a supplement actually contained ingredients that were not listed on the label. In some cases, these non-labeled substances may trigger a positive test.

Athletes are also advised to exercise good judgment and avoid products with suspicious and exaggerated claims or names, which include marketing performance terms such as “stacked,” “muscle,” “mass,” “tren,” “bol,” “anabolic” or “legal steroid,” “power,” “blast,” “energy,” “stimulant” and similar terms. The product may in fact be a designer steroid or contain a prohibited substance, such as the prohibited stimulant methylhexaneamine.

The ongoing problem of dietary supplement mislabeling continues to create a risky environment for athletes. Unfortunately, due to the current permissive regulations governing the supplement industry, USADA cannot give guarantees to athletes regarding which products are safe and free from contamination.

Athletes need to be aware that they assume the risks of adverse health outcomes and positive anti-doping tests when choosing to take supplements. Athletes are urged to take necessary steps to be informed consumers and evaluate any supplements, including: understanding all ingredients, consulting with a physician to assess whether taking a supplement is necessary, and having products tested to ensure safety. Please remember that strict liability applies at all times, and an athlete is responsible for any prohibited substance found in their system.


Frequent formulation changes, mislabeling of active ingredients, and multiple different names for the same ingredient seem to be the perfect combination for WADA and USADA to be able to bust a unknowning athlete. Imagine having allergy problems and not being able to fix them with an OTC drug because your freaking paid chemist has the weekend off...

I say as long as these dudes aren't blood doping, injecting themselves with large amount of illegal substances (steroids), or whatever else along the line then let them take supplements that the average person can get from their local GNC or Complete nutrition.

I mean these guys could get popped for drinking too much coffee...

4/15/2018 12:35pm
People are so terribly off base on how much money these guys make its pathetic. Even the "elite" 450 guys dont make these insane chunks of cash.

Our sport is a joke. At every single level.

Expecting to treat our athletes as if they make 50 million a year pathetic.

Not to mention I personally KNOW a few 250cc riders within the top 10 this year who are OUT OF POCKET to go race every year. If you put the total investment in by their parents up to pros vs what they "earned" anyone outside of the top 5 in the 250 class has lost money.
Even if you win a 250 title - and then go to the 450 class and never win a race again - net overall result after all expenditures each year isn't great.

Sure they can do it for the passion of it - it's the only reason MX/SX are still going...but our sport is largely a net negative investment - even for those in the top 10.

I am still patiently waiting for the data on a rider who is clearly fast enough to win but fades every week...


ando
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4/15/2018 3:57pm
People are so terribly off base on how much money these guys make its pathetic. Even the "elite" 450 guys dont make these insane chunks of...
People are so terribly off base on how much money these guys make its pathetic. Even the "elite" 450 guys dont make these insane chunks of cash.

Our sport is a joke. At every single level.

Expecting to treat our athletes as if they make 50 million a year pathetic.

Not to mention I personally KNOW a few 250cc riders within the top 10 this year who are OUT OF POCKET to go race every year. If you put the total investment in by their parents up to pros vs what they "earned" anyone outside of the top 5 in the 250 class has lost money.
Even if you win a 250 title - and then go to the 450 class and never win a race again - net overall result after all expenditures each year isn't great.

Sure they can do it for the passion of it - it's the only reason MX/SX are still going...but our sport is largely a net negative investment - even for those in the top 10.

I am still patiently waiting for the data on a rider who is clearly fast enough to win but fades every week...


What’s your point? These guys are chasing the dream, trying to make a living out of what is in reality a recreational activity. I admire their motivation and determination to become the best at their game but I’m not crying over anyone who thinks they “deserve” better.
ledger
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4/15/2018 6:24pm
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system? This could be accidental on Tickles part, hopefully the B test will give more information. Still, the punishment is extreme and I'm hoping that the rules can be reavaluated to NOT put an end to one's career. Don't get me wrong.... cheating is cheating, but maybe, just maybe, this incident is was accidental.... maybe.
mxb2
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4/15/2018 7:46pm
ledger wrote:
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system...
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system? This could be accidental on Tickles part, hopefully the B test will give more information. Still, the punishment is extreme and I'm hoping that the rules can be reavaluated to NOT put an end to one's career. Don't get me wrong.... cheating is cheating, but maybe, just maybe, this incident is was accidental.... maybe.
What else would roger say? Lol.
4/15/2018 8:12pm
I’m all for PED testing, but the penalty given to Tickle is absolutely ridiculous. The substance he popped for, DMAA, is a common stimulant added to pre-workout powders (which I guarantee is the reason it was in his system). For some reason, the FDA has been trying to pull these DMAA containing products from supplement companies, but to penalize someone so harshly for a compound that would not affect his performance in a race is ridiculous. There is no way Broc or anyone else is taking this pre-workout supplement before a race, as they often contain many vasodilating properties that can lead to quick arm pump (thinking of getting a big pump when lifting weights). He most likely uses prior to his weight training during the week and the half-life of the compound was lingering in his system.
ledger
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4/15/2018 8:17pm
ledger wrote:
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system...
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system? This could be accidental on Tickles part, hopefully the B test will give more information. Still, the punishment is extreme and I'm hoping that the rules can be reavaluated to NOT put an end to one's career. Don't get me wrong.... cheating is cheating, but maybe, just maybe, this incident is was accidental.... maybe.
mxb2 wrote:
What else would roger say? Lol.
He would probably say.... Retirement is looking pretty good about now, lol. Side note.... going to be emotional for me when he does, I've been following him since around 1972-73. Also, it would be insane if BT won the appeal.
4/15/2018 8:19pm
To answer your question. Based off what?....do a 5 minutes of research and you will find countless pages of evidence, that's why wada exists. Start with...
To answer your question. Based off what?....do a 5 minutes of research and you will find countless pages of evidence, that's why wada exists. Start with Lance Armstrong if you like.... You are right it wont give you speed if you are slow, it wont make you run the 100m in 9.7sec if you run it in 18sec either. But if you run the 100m in 10.3sec doping might get you the world record. Doping didn't make Lance Armstrong world class either, but do you think without the doping he would have set the records he has?

You did mention you can think of 1 rider that fades early, there are heaps, some of them you will never hear of. The stimulant that Brock has failed for is nothing, I think he should get a fine or a few week suspension but he will probably get more. Like I said doping wont give you speed but it will let you keep your max speed for far longer than any moto or main event. And if 1 takes it he has a massive advantage over those that dont....A far greater advantage than racing a 450 in the 250 class in my opinion.
Comparing Lance Armstrong PED use to Broc’s DMAA use is apples to oranges. DMAA would not provide any advantage to supercross/Motocross. In fact, it would actually be detrimental.
mxb2
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4/15/2018 8:27pm
ledger wrote:
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system...
Roger DeCoster believes BT is innocent, and I hope that's the case too. Does anyone know the amount of said drug that was in his system? This could be accidental on Tickles part, hopefully the B test will give more information. Still, the punishment is extreme and I'm hoping that the rules can be reavaluated to NOT put an end to one's career. Don't get me wrong.... cheating is cheating, but maybe, just maybe, this incident is was accidental.... maybe.
mxb2 wrote:
What else would roger say? Lol.
ledger wrote:
He would probably say.... Retirement is looking pretty good about now, lol. Side note.... going to be emotional for me when he does, I've been following...
He would probably say.... Retirement is looking pretty good about now, lol. Side note.... going to be emotional for me when he does, I've been following him since around 1972-73. Also, it would be insane if BT won the appeal.
Haha. Good points man, roger d is a legend.
ando
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4/15/2018 9:35pm
Giygas wrote:
I’m all for PED testing, but the penalty given to Tickle is absolutely ridiculous. The substance he popped for, DMAA, is a common stimulant added to...
I’m all for PED testing, but the penalty given to Tickle is absolutely ridiculous. The substance he popped for, DMAA, is a common stimulant added to pre-workout powders (which I guarantee is the reason it was in his system). For some reason, the FDA has been trying to pull these DMAA containing products from supplement companies, but to penalize someone so harshly for a compound that would not affect his performance in a race is ridiculous. There is no way Broc or anyone else is taking this pre-workout supplement before a race, as they often contain many vasodilating properties that can lead to quick arm pump (thinking of getting a big pump when lifting weights). He most likely uses prior to his weight training during the week and the half-life of the compound was lingering in his system.
Are you saying there would be no value in him using it during training to increase his strength/stamina etc?
ando
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4/15/2018 9:40pm
Here's the problem that the administrators of sport face when dealing with a positive test - how do you tell the difference between an "accidental" dose causing a positive test, and a deliberate use case causing a positive test?

Mostly it's relying on the testimony of the athlete, which is by its very nature potentially compromised.
billyp330
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4/16/2018 6:50am
I voted no to first question.

First starters, I don't believe taking any PED will turn a guy into a race winner or championship contender. I mean Tickle for example is a great rider, but look at his results from past yrs and this yrs. If he was taking a PED on purpose it sure looks like it wasn't working.

Some will argue the whole well then the sport becomes who can afford the best drugs blah blah blah. Isnt this already true to an extent? Best riders get best bikes/team (better bike is an advantage), and also best trainers (fitness advantage). Think 722 can afford to be on Bakers program? Think is bike is on par with Krocs?

Some ppl are naturally more athletic then others. In any sport, some ppl have a natural advantage due their genetics. Should they be banned? Wouldn't allowing PEDs actually create a more fair playing field since the less "gifted" could have an opportunity to be the absolute best they can be? Of course the "gifted" could also take PEDs so maybe the would still be better, in that case its the same, so only difference is now everyone is even more elevated. I would like to see less lappers in the mains. Maybe this would help.

How do we justify the use of pre workout and protein supplements as ok, yet say taking HGH for example is not. Are they not both designed to be better then natural alternatives? I understand HGH is more extreme, however in all reality they are both made to improve the humans body.

Another thing I have thought about that i'v never seen mentioned, is there any testing at the Amateur level? Is there USADA testing at LLs or Mini O's?
Asimo
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4/16/2018 6:54am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 6:54am
Giygas wrote:
Comparing Lance Armstrong PED use to Broc’s DMAA use is apples to oranges. DMAA would not provide any advantage to supercross/Motocross. In fact, it would actually...
Comparing Lance Armstrong PED use to Broc’s DMAA use is apples to oranges. DMAA would not provide any advantage to supercross/Motocross. In fact, it would actually be detrimental.
LOLZ, for days. SMDH
Asimo
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4/16/2018 6:59am
ando wrote:
Here's the problem that the administrators of sport face when dealing with a positive test - how do you tell the difference between an "accidental" dose...
Here's the problem that the administrators of sport face when dealing with a positive test - how do you tell the difference between an "accidental" dose causing a positive test, and a deliberate use case causing a positive test?

Mostly it's relying on the testimony of the athlete, which is by its very nature potentially compromised.
There is no such thing as an accidental dose.
Thats like having an accidental dose of meth, or an accidental dose of Adderall. LOLZ That said, alot people snort their preworkout if they buy it pure. Meaning no other ingredients.

rallendude
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4/16/2018 7:35am
I didn't read all the way through because of the repetition but I voted yes/yes. BUT, I believe the testing agencies need to narrow their searches for different sports. The four year ban looks to be something to affect olympic competition. Like said, banning a motocross racer for 4 years is career ending. If he's doping on serious stuff that is definitely performance enhancing or on something dangerous to himself or others, I think the penalty should be serious, like a year. But for things like Stewart and Tickle have failed for, the penalty should be maybe a few races or something that only affects the championship they are currently competing in. They won't get many more chances.

The big thing I think is wrong with the present setup is the way the penalty is administered. I understand there is an appeal process. If Brock appeals and/or his B sample is tested in it is negative, well he's missed a race now and is severely handicapped in the results of the series. That can't be recovered from. If they fail a test, put them on notice. Let them race. If the penalty sticks, retake the points they gained in those event. Bump the guys up that were behind them if you have to but let them race. Maybe they did that and that's why the results took so long to become public. I never heard that though.

jeffro503
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4/16/2018 8:08am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2018 8:18am
ando wrote:
Here's the problem that the administrators of sport face when dealing with a positive test - how do you tell the difference between an "accidental" dose...
Here's the problem that the administrators of sport face when dealing with a positive test - how do you tell the difference between an "accidental" dose causing a positive test, and a deliberate use case causing a positive test?

Mostly it's relying on the testimony of the athlete, which is by its very nature potentially compromised.
Asimo wrote:
There is no such thing as an accidental dose. Thats like having an accidental dose of meth, or an accidental dose of Adderall. LOLZ That said...
There is no such thing as an accidental dose.
Thats like having an accidental dose of meth, or an accidental dose of Adderall. LOLZ That said, alot people snort their preworkout if they buy it pure. Meaning no other ingredients.

Where do you come up with this shit? I've never even heard of the stuff Broc got busted for , and I'll bet I've probably taken it a 1000 times in pre-workout drinks , bars and so forth , without even knowing. You also stated earlier that Broc would have had to go out of his way to find it , when in fact it's extremely common. Now you're saying these guys are snorting it? Haha.....seriously?
kkawboy14
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4/16/2018 8:10am
I have never taken anything with geranium oil in it!
MR. X
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4/16/2018 8:16am
logan_140 wrote:
When an nfl player violates the substance abuse policy they get 4 games first offense... we jump straight to 365 days in sx/Mx..
MR. X wrote:
Are the players tested by the NFL and not an outside testing company ?
logan_140 wrote:
That i am not sure on.. however the penalty goes up every time they violate it. Either way moto has to do something different. 365 days...
That i am not sure on.. however the penalty goes up every time they violate it. Either way moto has to do something different. 365 days is to much
I posted in the other topic that someone could argue that a rider that has taken drug X could still be benefiting from taking that drug even after the cycle is done . Could possibly be why the length of time for a penalty, I agree this most recent one wouldn't fall under that .
MR. X
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6/24/2010
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North Tonawanda, NY, USA
4/16/2018 8:19am
Asimo wrote:
There is no such thing as an accidental dose. Thats like having an accidental dose of meth, or an accidental dose of Adderall. LOLZ That said...
There is no such thing as an accidental dose.
Thats like having an accidental dose of meth, or an accidental dose of Adderall. LOLZ That said, alot people snort their preworkout if they buy it pure. Meaning no other ingredients.

You are incorrect , it was proven in a case a couple years ago in the UFC ,the company making the supplements was not cleaning as they should and cross contamination occurred. Even the sample they tested still on the shelf had trace amounts,enough to test hot.
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
4/16/2018 8:24am
Imo, they need rules ,guidelines if not the teams and riders with more $$ will get more and better stuff the other riders cant afford
Separate the field even more. Then the rich rider/teams will take whatever to win. And where will it end, then turns into a safety, health issue. Bottom line read the rulebook. Any doubts ask and research before using stuff in question. No excuses. Riders know the penalty. I bet they read the fine print in their $$ contract.
Asimo
Posts
505
Joined
1/16/2018
Location
USA
4/16/2018 8:27am
jeffro503 wrote:
Where do you come up with this shit? I've never even heard of the stuff Broc got busted for , and I'll bet I've probably taken...
Where do you come up with this shit? I've never even heard of the stuff Broc got busted for , and I'll bet I've probably taken it a 1000 times in pre-workout drinks , bars and so forth , without even knowing. You also stated earlier that Broc would have had to go out of his way to find it , when in fact it's extremely common. Now you're saying these guys are snorting it? Haha.....seriously?
Yah, People post videos of themselves,
Maybe you should Read the labels. If you can post on this board, you can probably read.

DMAA isnt in all pre-workout products. If you could read, or did read, you would know it or not.,

Alot buy all their stuff in bulk as raws. Its cheaper. Its plain wrapper. You're not paying for a brand name and fancy label. Plus they are not paying for unneeded fillers.

They snort the DMAA because the effect is immediate instead of having to take it prior to and not knowing when its actually working due to empty stomach, vs eating it with a meal, slowing digestion etc.
People crush and snort adderall to bypass the time release effect for the same exact reason. Adderall is just amphetamines.
If cocaine was prescription, they would just crush it back into a powder!

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