Arenacross no more...

TXDirt
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TXDirt 1/30/2018 2:00pm
1/30/2018 2:00pm
MOTOCAM25 wrote:
I've never been an arenacross fan, and we had one of the bigger facilities at the Lazy-E in Guthrie, OK. IMHO it's roller derby on motorcycles...
I've never been an arenacross fan, and we had one of the bigger facilities at the Lazy-E in Guthrie, OK. IMHO it's roller derby on motorcycles with very little room to actually race.

Of course it's just my opinion, but I think a Friday or Sunday race at the SX venue would be better exposure for the competitors and sponsors, and also a better scenario for the casual fan. Just think, the Glendale discussion would of had so much more bench racing involved. From a marketing prospective, its a 2 birds one stone kinda thing.
No fans are going to come out on Sunday to a SX stadium for an AX race. No fans = no exposure. Friday not much better in my opinion either.

Some of the arenacrosses I went to in the 90's were completely packed with fans. The Cow Palace for example. Not a seat left in the house on both nights. And the energy is much higher then at a SX race because you are so much closer in on the racing action. The overall production was very well done and exciting. Sunday was used for the amateur racing. I'm talking about just from a casual fan perspective. If you take someone who has never been to a SX race and an AX race ask them which one they liked better I bet it would be AX 8/10 times.

They need to go back to Friday and Saturday night races. And hold the series between the end of motocross and the start of supercross. This would also mean bigger name guys would attend. Not talking about factory level riders. But certainly some of the mid pack/back of pack SX guys would do some of the Arenacross races.
Danster
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Danster 1/30/2018 2:01pm
1/30/2018 2:01pm
Its time for the Boo Koo Arenacross series......
Run Arenacross after the Nationals, before Supercross like it was before.!

jbomx363
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jbomx363 1/30/2018 2:09pm
1/30/2018 2:09pm
Run Arenacross after the Nationals, before Supercross like it was before.!

I 2nd that opinion.
JustMX
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JustMX 1/30/2018 3:29pm
1/30/2018 3:29pm
And I don't really want to rehash an over done debate, but.......

The racing was so much better when they were on two strokes, especially the 125 classes.....

The tight tracks are so much more suited for them because it was so important to keep your momentum up. You couldn't just roll the throttle on and clear the catapault.....

And oh, the sweet, sweet sound of all those 125s..... it was listening to an awesome angelic concert in premix........

The Shop

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Kyle10Wolfe
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Kyle10Wolfe 1/30/2018 4:05pm
1/30/2018 4:05pm
I have an idea. Let's make the AX series just like any other amateur event. Some of this is based around the Road To SX concept.

Friday: Pro qualifying for Lites and AX class. We run QUALIFYING RACES, not timed qualifying. We put the best RACERS on the gate. Top 30 in both classes go to Saturday.

Saturday: Amateur practice and qualifying starts at 8:00. Roughly 20 amateur classes, not 47 or however many they race on Sunday, many of them only have 5 riders or less. By 3:00, qualifying should be done, you run practice for the pro riders that qualified from Friday. After practice, do track prep, and get ready for the night show. Just for arguments sake, the guys that don't make the main in either class get their money back to help cover their hotel room from Friday night so it's not a complete waste of a weekend.

Saturday Night: 2 heat races per Pro class, an LCQ each. Mixed in with all of that are the amateur main events. AX Lites main, 5-7 races later, AX main is final race of the night. Done. Not only do you get every fan that wants to see the pro guys, but you get every rider, mechanic, family member, etc. for all the amateurs that don't show up on Sunday because what's the point of racing in front of no one? This sells out every building.
BobKerr
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BobKerr 1/30/2018 5:21pm
1/30/2018 5:21pm
mb60 wrote:
Run the series starting after labor day and make it a 3 moto format. Would love to see Mike Kidd take over again see where it...
Run the series starting after labor day and make it a 3 moto format. Would love to see Mike Kidd take over again see where it goes. Another AMA series ran into the ground in my honest opinion.
KMC440 wrote:
Loved the Mike Kidd events. They were more in line with the old Regional AX events with the classes on Fri & Sat nights. Remember a...
Loved the Mike Kidd events. They were more in line with the old Regional AX events with the classes on Fri & Sat nights. Remember a 'C' class racer brings mom, dad, bro, sis, g-friend even a cousin or so. Not so much a "pro" racer. If I remember right the AX tour of late had no B or C or 50cc classes on the Fri or Sat nights. That's a lot of potential butts in the seats of the night program.
They had a 50cc race and a supermini race in Greensboro last Saturday night.
BobKerr
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BobKerr 1/30/2018 5:25pm
1/30/2018 5:25pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Why do they think AX is done? I would be surprised if AX is done with the drawing of spectators and necessitie to get points to...
Why do they think AX is done? I would be surprised if AX is done with the drawing of spectators and necessitie to get points to move up to SX if it went away.
Premix wrote:
Seating Capacity of first 5 rounds of AX this year: Nutter Center: 10,400 DCU Center: 14,800 Mohegan Sun: 10,000 Greensboro: 23,000 Alliant Energy: 10,200 Average supercross...
Seating Capacity of first 5 rounds of AX this year:

Nutter Center: 10,400
DCU Center: 14,800
Mohegan Sun: 10,000
Greensboro: 23,000
Alliant Energy: 10,200

Average supercross pulls 40-45k. I’m sure they could sell 10k tickets between spectators and racers for a Sunday amateur program. Maybe brings some better competition to SX. Hayes, Faith, Owen, Sewell, Blose. All guys that belong somewhere in the SX night show in my opinion.

The problem is im guessing that those guys you mentioned all make a lot more money racing AX vs making the night show in SX.
Mit12
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Mit12 1/30/2018 5:38pm
1/30/2018 5:38pm
They tried to sell it as the road to SX but the facts are it is a competing series in a way. Riders can go back and forth between SX and AX. Having just SX will make more riders come to the series kind of like CART and the indy Series.
BobKerr
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BobKerr 1/30/2018 5:41pm
1/30/2018 5:41pm
I agree with you all that the AX series needs to be run from October through the end of December.
resetjet
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resetjet 1/30/2018 5:49pm
1/30/2018 5:49pm
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2 sx races a year. (I would go to mx but I work that time of year. I spend way to much time on this site. I follow the sport big time. I live in Tampa. I went to an arena cross once. They have come 2 or 3 times since, I have no interest. It was cool once. I don't care who won or is winning that series.
If the can't get me to come back, who are they getting to come back??????
zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 1/30/2018 6:13pm
1/30/2018 6:13pm
resetjet wrote:
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2...
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2 sx races a year. (I would go to mx but I work that time of year. I spend way to much time on this site. I follow the sport big time. I live in Tampa. I went to an arena cross once. They have come 2 or 3 times since, I have no interest. It was cool once. I don't care who won or is winning that series.
If the can't get me to come back, who are they getting to come back??????
People that enjoy close racing, not people that just watch to see "their guy" win
Premix
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Premix 1/30/2018 6:47pm
1/30/2018 6:47pm
BobKerr wrote:
The problem is im guessing that those guys you mentioned all make a lot more money racing AX vs making the night show in SX.
So I’m a man of numbers by trade and like to work in the realm of statistics rather than emotions:

Hypotheticals here: Johnny Racer is making the decision to ride AX and SX. He is going to ride the full series regardless of which one he picks. He could finish 5th every night in AX (12 rounds) or finish dead last in every 450 main. Let’s just say he rides a Kawi for kicks for whatever size he needs for each class:

AX: 5th every night
Payout: 575 x12 = 6900
5th overall in series = 7500
Kawi Contingency= 400 x 12 = 4800

Total for AX: 19,200 or 1600/weekend

SX: 22nd in 450 main every weekend
Payout: 1614x17= 27,438
Kawi Contingency: 500 x17= 8500

Total for SX: 35,938 or 2114/weekend

And obviously if the rider has any bonuses in place from sponsors or teams you have to factor those in. Why not just discard of the AX series and roll the purse into SX?

Too many numbers for one night and doing my taxes as well. Paid more federal taxes than the 5th place guy makes racing arenacross. (Face palm)

harescrambled 1/30/2018 7:25pm
1/30/2018 7:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2018 1:19pm
Matthes wrote:
I didn't say it was going away for sure, just that it was rumored to be going away. It's been all over the pits in AX...
I didn't say it was going away for sure, just that it was rumored to be going away. It's been all over the pits in AX and in SX for a while. In fact, I heard the Babbitt's team is going to move to GNCC for 2019 as well.

We'll see, I got to think someone picks up the ball though (paging Eric Peronnard?) and gets a series going.
Babbitt's is taking the first step to GNCC in 20018....Jason Thomas (UKJT, not JT$) is riding for them this year in XC2
early
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early 1/30/2018 7:27pm
1/30/2018 7:27pm
Premix wrote:
So I’m a man of numbers by trade and like to work in the realm of statistics rather than emotions: Hypotheticals here: Johnny Racer is making...
So I’m a man of numbers by trade and like to work in the realm of statistics rather than emotions:

Hypotheticals here: Johnny Racer is making the decision to ride AX and SX. He is going to ride the full series regardless of which one he picks. He could finish 5th every night in AX (12 rounds) or finish dead last in every 450 main. Let’s just say he rides a Kawi for kicks for whatever size he needs for each class:

AX: 5th every night
Payout: 575 x12 = 6900
5th overall in series = 7500
Kawi Contingency= 400 x 12 = 4800

Total for AX: 19,200 or 1600/weekend

SX: 22nd in 450 main every weekend
Payout: 1614x17= 27,438
Kawi Contingency: 500 x17= 8500

Total for SX: 35,938 or 2114/weekend

And obviously if the rider has any bonuses in place from sponsors or teams you have to factor those in. Why not just discard of the AX series and roll the purse into SX?

Too many numbers for one night and doing my taxes as well. Paid more federal taxes than the 5th place guy makes racing arenacross. (Face palm)

But what if they could do both series?
Premix
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Premix 1/30/2018 7:47pm
1/30/2018 7:47pm
early wrote:
But what if they could do both series?
Under the current schedules, I believe every round is overlapping. Now, as a couple have suggested moving it back to the fall, sure, why not. I highly doubt feld would pass up a chance to make money, the question then becomes are the AX’s profitable enough? Would changing them to the “off season” generate more racers?

Or would they get the same amount at an Amatuer SX, where they already have the arena rented and the dirt moved in and be able to increase the pro purse at the actual SX. Offer the consumers a whole weekend of racing rather than just one night....
RbR
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RbR 1/30/2018 8:44pm
1/30/2018 8:44pm
Probably already been discussed in another thread at some point, but Amsoil is pulling out of sponsoring race teams and racing series. This is their last year at sponsorship levels we've been used to seeing. So many series, from bikes to cars, will be impacted. They had been spending ~$9 million on teams and race series.
early
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early 1/30/2018 8:45pm
1/30/2018 8:45pm
Premix wrote:
Under the current schedules, I believe every round is overlapping. Now, as a couple have suggested moving it back to the fall, sure, why not. I...
Under the current schedules, I believe every round is overlapping. Now, as a couple have suggested moving it back to the fall, sure, why not. I highly doubt feld would pass up a chance to make money, the question then becomes are the AX’s profitable enough? Would changing them to the “off season” generate more racers?

Or would they get the same amount at an Amatuer SX, where they already have the arena rented and the dirt moved in and be able to increase the pro purse at the actual SX. Offer the consumers a whole weekend of racing rather than just one night....
The current structure is just piss poor by all accounts. Running the series at the same time as supercross means there is absolutely no buzz, riders have to give up their SX aspirations to race it, and races are broadcast a week or two after they happen on Sunday afternoon with no online archive to direct perspective fans to. Feld can do their thing, they have failed arenacross. Hopefully someone could fill the void if they do kill the series.
early
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early 1/30/2018 8:52pm
1/30/2018 8:52pm
RbR wrote:
Probably already been discussed in another thread at some point, but Amsoil is pulling out of sponsoring race teams and racing series. This is their last...
Probably already been discussed in another thread at some point, but Amsoil is pulling out of sponsoring race teams and racing series. This is their last year at sponsorship levels we've been used to seeing. So many series, from bikes to cars, will be impacted. They had been spending ~$9 million on teams and race series.
I hadnt heard that, interesting, that could definitely be a reason if the rumors are fulfilled. Ive seen motorsports sponsorship from amsoil, lucas oil, royal purple. Is the any particular reason traditional oil companies (exxonmobil, shell, bp, etc.) are not involved in motorsports in America? Petronas used to be involved WSBK and obviously Repsol is a big sponsor of various Honda teams.

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dean122
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dean122 1/30/2018 9:04pm
1/30/2018 9:04pm
RbR wrote:
Probably already been discussed in another thread at some point, but Amsoil is pulling out of sponsoring race teams and racing series. This is their last...
Probably already been discussed in another thread at some point, but Amsoil is pulling out of sponsoring race teams and racing series. This is their last year at sponsorship levels we've been used to seeing. So many series, from bikes to cars, will be impacted. They had been spending ~$9 million on teams and race series.
That is going to be a huge loss to the motorsports industry. Besides AX they are the series sponsor for TORC. $9mil is a lot to spend, but completing cutting yourself out of your target demographic like that could possibly do more harm than good. When I think of Amsoil, I think of racing just because of how involved they are in all aspects of motorsports.
NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 1/30/2018 9:18pm
1/30/2018 9:18pm
I've heard "last year of Arenacross" before-- 2004 as far back as I can remember. Maybe it's for real this time.
dirtbikemike 1/31/2018 9:45pm
1/31/2018 9:45pm
Mini Elsinore wrote:
I know 2 guys who could likely make it work.
Paging Mike Kidd and Mike Lambert to the red courtesy phone.
I can only speak for one Mike: me. I'm pretty busy during AX season.
dirtbikemike 1/31/2018 10:00pm
1/31/2018 10:00pm
BobKerr wrote:
The problem is im guessing that those guys you mentioned all make a lot more money racing AX vs making the night show in SX.
Premix wrote:
So I’m a man of numbers by trade and like to work in the realm of statistics rather than emotions: Hypotheticals here: Johnny Racer is making...
So I’m a man of numbers by trade and like to work in the realm of statistics rather than emotions:

Hypotheticals here: Johnny Racer is making the decision to ride AX and SX. He is going to ride the full series regardless of which one he picks. He could finish 5th every night in AX (12 rounds) or finish dead last in every 450 main. Let’s just say he rides a Kawi for kicks for whatever size he needs for each class:

AX: 5th every night
Payout: 575 x12 = 6900
5th overall in series = 7500
Kawi Contingency= 400 x 12 = 4800

Total for AX: 19,200 or 1600/weekend

SX: 22nd in 450 main every weekend
Payout: 1614x17= 27,438
Kawi Contingency: 500 x17= 8500

Total for SX: 35,938 or 2114/weekend

And obviously if the rider has any bonuses in place from sponsors or teams you have to factor those in. Why not just discard of the AX series and roll the purse into SX?

Too many numbers for one night and doing my taxes as well. Paid more federal taxes than the 5th place guy makes racing arenacross. (Face palm)

You need to factor in some other costs. Deduct entry fees and license fees from you figures. Supercross license is around $350 and entry fees over $200 per round will set your wallet on fire. Arenacross only requires an AMA card, $49 and entry fees are $65. You can ride both AX and AX Lites every night. You can also race 250A and Open A on Sunday. Ride a KTM or Husqvarna who pay contingency money down to last place and your figures will change again.

Rider entries for Arenacross have been in the 70-80 range for the first four rounds this year. That's in both classes. Supercross hasn't seen those numbers for several years.
Mini Elsinore
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Mini Elsinore 1/31/2018 10:25pm
1/31/2018 10:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2018 10:40pm
Mini Elsinore wrote:
I know 2 guys who could likely make it work.
Paging Mike Kidd and Mike Lambert to the red courtesy phone.
dirtbikemike wrote:
I can only speak for one Mike: me. I'm pretty busy during AX season.
Keep up the strong hustle.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/31/2018 11:49pm
1/31/2018 11:49pm
resetjet wrote:
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2...
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2 sx races a year. (I would go to mx but I work that time of year. I spend way to much time on this site. I follow the sport big time. I live in Tampa. I went to an arena cross once. They have come 2 or 3 times since, I have no interest. It was cool once. I don't care who won or is winning that series.
If the can't get me to come back, who are they getting to come back??????
Exactly why I said earlier in this thread that I have been to 1 arenacross
bbartz17
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bbartz17 2/1/2018 6:48am
2/1/2018 6:48am
This is absolutely False. Sorry. But AX will be back in 18/19. As for a lot of the comments about AX and it dying. People aren’t wrong there. It’s not what it used to b. But the fix... go back to what it used to be. As in, 2 nights, 2 classes. More racing less BS. It’s not SX and never will be. And that’s ok. It’s a type of racing unlike SX or MX. It’s just plane different. It’s not a road to anything. It’s what some people are better at and used to b able to make a living at.
MXATC
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MXATC 2/1/2018 8:12am
2/1/2018 8:12am
bbartz17 wrote:
This is absolutely False. Sorry. But AX will be back in 18/19. As for a lot of the comments about AX and it dying. People aren’t...
This is absolutely False. Sorry. But AX will be back in 18/19. As for a lot of the comments about AX and it dying. People aren’t wrong there. It’s not what it used to b. But the fix... go back to what it used to be. As in, 2 nights, 2 classes. More racing less BS. It’s not SX and never will be. And that’s ok. It’s a type of racing unlike SX or MX. It’s just plane different. It’s not a road to anything. It’s what some people are better at and used to b able to make a living at.
Thanks for that response. Good information. I've always loved AX and have always thought a lot of the riders, team managers, track personnel and others involved in the sport from the years I got spend there. AX is a lot of fun and they are a close knit family. I would love to see some expansion like it use to be (regional series) to give riders some more experience before they try to step up to SX. But with the way the economy is and the motorcycle industry is currently, it makes it tough on everyone involved in the sport. Keep up the good racing AX!
Flip109
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Flip109 2/1/2018 8:55am
2/1/2018 8:55am
resetjet wrote:
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2...
The long and the short of it is, I am a big time Moto fan. I ride at least once per week, I go to 1-2 sx races a year. (I would go to mx but I work that time of year. I spend way to much time on this site. I follow the sport big time. I live in Tampa. I went to an arena cross once. They have come 2 or 3 times since, I have no interest. It was cool once. I don't care who won or is winning that series.
If the can't get me to come back, who are they getting to come back??????
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly why I said earlier in this thread that I have been to 1 arenacross
Count me in to this group. I know some people get all pumped up on it, but I just don’t see how. The tracks are all so basic and small. It’s like a side show circus. It’s not entertaining to me. Been to a few. It was an alright time. I’d rather watch an A class race at a big local moto track any day.
Premix
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Premix 2/1/2018 9:21am
2/1/2018 9:21am
dirtbikemike wrote:
You need to factor in some other costs. Deduct entry fees and license fees from you figures. Supercross license is around $350 and entry fees over...
You need to factor in some other costs. Deduct entry fees and license fees from you figures. Supercross license is around $350 and entry fees over $200 per round will set your wallet on fire. Arenacross only requires an AMA card, $49 and entry fees are $65. You can ride both AX and AX Lites every night. You can also race 250A and Open A on Sunday. Ride a KTM or Husqvarna who pay contingency money down to last place and your figures will change again.

Rider entries for Arenacross have been in the 70-80 range for the first four rounds this year. That's in both classes. Supercross hasn't seen those numbers for several years.
The argument of entry fee's/license fee's is moot. Any smart racer is marketing himself and creating a network of sponsors that will gladly pay these for him or her.

You are correct in that they can race AX and AX lites every night, however, they only qualify for an east/west series plus the championship round at Vegas if they want to race the lites class also. Both KTM/Husk have disclaimer in place that they can only claim contingency in one class. So does Kawasaki. Kawasaki's contingency also pays better than KTM/Husk for Arenacross. I don't see any of the guys that are racing the Saturday program also racing the sunday amateur day? Correct me on this if I am wrong.....

Also as far as rider entries go, there's no pro license required to race AX or AX lites. So yes, you're going to have this when every Joe Blow from the local area wants his "I almost made the night show but had a tip over" post on Instagram.


resetjet
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resetjet 2/1/2018 11:13am
2/1/2018 11:13am
Flip109 wrote:
Count me in to this group. I know some people get all pumped up on it, but I just don’t see how. The tracks are all...
Count me in to this group. I know some people get all pumped up on it, but I just don’t see how. The tracks are all so basic and small. It’s like a side show circus. It’s not entertaining to me. Been to a few. It was an alright time. I’d rather watch an A class race at a big local moto track any day.
exactly
Brownstone322 2/1/2018 11:21am
2/1/2018 11:21am
Flip109 wrote:
Count me in to this group. I know some people get all pumped up on it, but I just don’t see how. The tracks are all...
Count me in to this group. I know some people get all pumped up on it, but I just don’t see how. The tracks are all so basic and small. It’s like a side show circus. It’s not entertaining to me. Been to a few. It was an alright time. I’d rather watch an A class race at a big local moto track any day.
resetjet wrote:
exactly
All that applies to Supercross too.

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