2018 CRF 250 mods to increase bottom-end power

305FC250
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305FC250 1/24/2018 5:57am
1/24/2018 5:57am
Why waste extra money on a 4 stroke that requires you to ride it like a 2 stroke.... Just buy a 2 stroke at that point. Thats kind of the bottom line for me. I don't care if it's just a 250 if Im gona ride a 4 stroke I expect it to have at least some grunt off the bottom, you know broad and linear power delivery being the biggest advantage a 4 stroke has over a 2 stroke and whatnot... Without that what's the point.
BobPA
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BobPA 1/24/2018 6:23am
1/24/2018 6:23am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2018 6:24am
Underground wrote:
Wow. I see your wisdom ran out at quoting Wikileaks. But then there's this: To summarize, you can either equate an engine with a) any machine...
Wow. I see your wisdom ran out at quoting Wikileaks.
But then there's this:
To summarize, you can either equate an engine with a) any machine, or b) a thermal engine, or c) any machine that transforms kinetic energy to/from another form of energy. A motor is any machine that transforms another form of energy to linear or rotational kinetic energy.
Now I suggest you take a seat. At the back of the class.
Why phrase it any different? They had it spot on...(I have had this argument before)

Pathetic rebuttal bro. But, I will give you a "D" for your efforts

I am sure your son will do fine on a Honda. Have him ride it first and see what he thinks. Do not trust peoples opinions who cannot even bottom A-kit
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wfopete
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wfopete 1/24/2018 6:27am
1/24/2018 6:27am
A holeshot is one thing; the overall results are another. Not too many red bikes making the 250 main.
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MPJC
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MPJC 1/24/2018 6:29am
1/24/2018 6:29am
305FC250 wrote:
Why waste extra money on a 4 stroke that requires you to ride it like a 2 stroke.... Just buy a 2 stroke at that point...
Why waste extra money on a 4 stroke that requires you to ride it like a 2 stroke.... Just buy a 2 stroke at that point. Thats kind of the bottom line for me. I don't care if it's just a 250 if Im gona ride a 4 stroke I expect it to have at least some grunt off the bottom, you know broad and linear power delivery being the biggest advantage a 4 stroke has over a 2 stroke and whatnot... Without that what's the point.
Pretty much what I was thinking.

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CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 1/24/2018 6:39am
1/24/2018 6:39am
305FC250 wrote:
Why waste extra money on a 4 stroke that requires you to ride it like a 2 stroke.... Just buy a 2 stroke at that point...
Why waste extra money on a 4 stroke that requires you to ride it like a 2 stroke.... Just buy a 2 stroke at that point. Thats kind of the bottom line for me. I don't care if it's just a 250 if Im gona ride a 4 stroke I expect it to have at least some grunt off the bottom, you know broad and linear power delivery being the biggest advantage a 4 stroke has over a 2 stroke and whatnot... Without that what's the point.
MPJC wrote:
Pretty much what I was thinking.
I wrote this in another thread, but I really think people have the wrong impression on how much bottom end this bike really has. It in now way compares to the Yamaha 250 which has incredible roll on, but it's not like your bogging like a 125 out of a corner. Give the bike a chance and then see what you think.

I've been seeing Swap(Don) from TWMX riding the Honda 250 a lot and I'm sure he's over 165lbs, seems like he's having a blast on that thing.
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wfopete
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wfopete 1/24/2018 7:02am
1/24/2018 7:02am
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which is a bad head design. Nothing breaks the bank like trying to get a poorly designed bike to make competitive power.
4
wideopen198 1/24/2018 7:17am
1/24/2018 7:17am
wfopete wrote:
A holeshot is one thing; the overall results are another. Not too many red bikes making the 250 main.
This is just a shitty argument. The rider is more important then the bike on that level. The GEICO Honda's compete for the win.
1
wideopen198 1/24/2018 7:19am
1/24/2018 7:19am
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
That's actually exactly what they did this year: design a whole new motor. The Honda has a lot of potential. It just needs some finetuning.
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RCMXracing
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RCMXracing 1/24/2018 7:20am
1/24/2018 7:20am
So the match point (compared to other bikes) in HP for the CRF is about 9,800 RPM looking at the chart (previous page). Where’s the problem? Should be riding in RPM region well above 10k on a 250F. It is odd there’s such a deficit in HP in lower RPM’s, but shouldn’t deal with that unless caught in wrong gear.
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MPJC
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MPJC 1/24/2018 7:24am
1/24/2018 7:24am
RCMXracing wrote:
So the match point (compared to other bikes) in HP for the CRF is about 9,800 RPM looking at the chart (previous page). Where’s the problem...
So the match point (compared to other bikes) in HP for the CRF is about 9,800 RPM looking at the chart (previous page). Where’s the problem? Should be riding in RPM region well above 10k on a 250F. It is odd there’s such a deficit in HP in lower RPM’s, but shouldn’t deal with that unless caught in wrong gear.
If MXA is to be believed, compared to the KTM, there's a deficit everywhere - it's just biggest below 10,000 rpm. A fast rider could conceivably give up some low end if the high rpm payoff is sufficient. But where's the payoff with this engine?
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RCMXracing 1/24/2018 8:38am
1/24/2018 8:38am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2018 8:38am
RCMXracing wrote:
So the match point (compared to other bikes) in HP for the CRF is about 9,800 RPM looking at the chart (previous page). Where’s the problem...
So the match point (compared to other bikes) in HP for the CRF is about 9,800 RPM looking at the chart (previous page). Where’s the problem? Should be riding in RPM region well above 10k on a 250F. It is odd there’s such a deficit in HP in lower RPM’s, but shouldn’t deal with that unless caught in wrong gear.
MPJC wrote:
If MXA is to be believed, compared to the KTM, there's a deficit everywhere - it's just biggest below 10,000 rpm. A fast rider could conceivably...
If MXA is to be believed, compared to the KTM, there's a deficit everywhere - it's just biggest below 10,000 rpm. A fast rider could conceivably give up some low end if the high rpm payoff is sufficient. But where's the payoff with this engine?
Fair enough, although negligible above that 10K point. Strange why Honda would set it up like that, just asking for criticism. I have a KTM and I can ride it lazy or I can ride it correctly, and there’s really only one way to ride it - scream its lungs out! A/B level riders are going to be just fine with the CRF. Lesser skilled riders, yeah, gonna have some flubs, but gearing can help. Knowing what it takes RPM wise to get the most out of a 250F I believe the CRF would be just as competitive in MX as any brand comparing stock to stock.
HenryA
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HenryA 1/24/2018 8:47am
1/24/2018 8:47am
Guys guys...the Honda is cheaper than the KTM. It's supposed to be slower. Whistling
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/24/2018 12:30pm
1/24/2018 12:30pm
wfopete wrote:
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which...
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which is a bad head design. Nothing breaks the bank like trying to get a poorly designed bike to make competitive power.
your expertise (please excuse the heavy sarcasm) and hatred towards the red bike is noted...congrats you have convinced everyone that no one should buy it, happy now?
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brocsdad
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brocsdad 1/24/2018 2:39pm
1/24/2018 2:39pm
I want a bike that pulls from the bottom thru the top. Yes most fast guys are going to live in the top-end but if you make a mistake and you don't have bottom end power you will get passed. Simple as that!

More than likely we will be waiting until the 19's come out to buy another bike. Though if we found a smoking deal on a 18 model and you could gain some cheap power I would consider the 18. If not we will wait to see what Honda does for 19. Though Yamaha will have a new bike and if it turns we may consider the YZF.

The ergonomics, handling and build quality of the CRF's are always awesome. Hopefully they wake the motor up in 19!
cable
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cable 1/24/2018 2:58pm
1/24/2018 2:58pm
Changing cam timing is free.. If i wanted to be competitive i would call ron hamp.
Underground 1/24/2018 3:45pm
1/24/2018 3:45pm
wfopete wrote:
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which...
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which is a bad head design. Nothing breaks the bank like trying to get a poorly designed bike to make competitive power.
What's your experience with these engines if you don't mind me asking? I know the heads aren't ideal with overly large exhaust ports/small inlets but the engine can be made competative with other modified engines with the right tuning as listed above for example. Go back and look at the threads on KTM 250 mods. They aren't racing them stock! Do you race a KTM with the standard exhaust anyway? For the average Joe, while they may not win a drag race against the KTM out of the box and need to rev them more than other bikes to get into the usable range, they are competative. Especially late in the moto when the arms are turning jelly. Haven't heard anyone bag the handling or ergoes. No doubt the 19 will be alot better with a year of racing R&D on the table and the bright side is definitely not have to spend another $2000 on CV forks
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Joko
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Joko 1/24/2018 4:20pm
1/24/2018 4:20pm
Big bore should fix it cheap if your in the right class
Racer111
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Racer111 1/24/2018 4:32pm
1/24/2018 4:32pm
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right grip and twist backward and hold on!
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brocsdad
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brocsdad 1/24/2018 7:42pm
1/24/2018 7:42pm
wfopete wrote:
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which...
The OP was concerned about "breaking the bank" making the power competitive. $1500 for a decent exhaust and we haven't yet addressed the real issue which is a bad head design. Nothing breaks the bank like trying to get a poorly designed bike to make competitive power.
Underground wrote:
What's your experience with these engines if you don't mind me asking? I know the heads aren't ideal with overly large exhaust ports/small inlets but the...
What's your experience with these engines if you don't mind me asking? I know the heads aren't ideal with overly large exhaust ports/small inlets but the engine can be made competative with other modified engines with the right tuning as listed above for example. Go back and look at the threads on KTM 250 mods. They aren't racing them stock! Do you race a KTM with the standard exhaust anyway? For the average Joe, while they may not win a drag race against the KTM out of the box and need to rev them more than other bikes to get into the usable range, they are competative. Especially late in the moto when the arms are turning jelly. Haven't heard anyone bag the handling or ergoes. No doubt the 19 will be alot better with a year of racing R&D on the table and the bright side is definitely not have to spend another $2000 on CV forks
That’s the reason I will not consider a KTM. We had a 16 and dumped money in the forks and they were still junk! Then I hear all the praise about the air forks and all the local racers converted those because they were junk. Failed trannys with no parts available and swingarms that require shimming on a regular basis to eliminate vibration. I could go on and believe me the Japanese bikes have flaws but I’m not a KTM fan.
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PTshox
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PTshox 1/24/2018 11:45pm
1/24/2018 11:45pm
cable wrote:
Changing cam timing is free.. If i wanted to be competitive i would call ron hamp.
Exactly - you want more low end pull call Ron Hamp. He'll reduce the volume in the intake track and match it up to a cam he'll design... You'll be good to go.
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wfopete
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wfopete 1/25/2018 5:32am
1/25/2018 5:32am
Racer111 wrote:
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right...
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right grip and twist backward and hold on!
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk with some tuners and the writing is on the wall: Getting this bike competitive with the other class leaders will not be cheap or EZ. Pipe, cams, port work and (?) and that is getting competitive with stock bikes, after mods are done to the other class bikes; guess what? The Honda will be down on power again. Honda made several changes to the engine but the biggest was the head and all these changes compromised the useable power. Incorporating the estart, the new DOHC head design and going to twin exhaust ports was too much for Honda R&D to get competitive power for 2018. What really concerns me is the bore/stoke ratio and lighten crank. It favors high rpms and if that's part of the problem it will be tuff to fix. Yeah, gearing down helps the motor get along but you are still going to have to ride 10/10th, scream the motor and hope you don't pick the wrong gear. The "Average Joe" might get the holshot but after that he will struggle to keep this bike up front. The little 2018 Honda does have a lot of work into it but it's power is unforgiving and somehow the engine design just didn't gel for a decent powerband. This over weight, single powerband bike is billed as the Holeshot bike, the once every 10 years bike and would set the new standard for 250's. Instead it will more likely go down as the biggest disappointment of 2018. So you can spend $8K for this bike and drop another $2K (likely more) into the All-or-Nothing engine or go with another color.
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RedDragon
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RedDragon 1/25/2018 5:40am
1/25/2018 5:40am
HAve you actually ridden one?
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GPrider
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GPrider 1/25/2018 5:48am
1/25/2018 5:48am
Racer111 wrote:
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right...
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right grip and twist backward and hold on!
wfopete wrote:
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk...
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk with some tuners and the writing is on the wall: Getting this bike competitive with the other class leaders will not be cheap or EZ. Pipe, cams, port work and (?) and that is getting competitive with stock bikes, after mods are done to the other class bikes; guess what? The Honda will be down on power again. Honda made several changes to the engine but the biggest was the head and all these changes compromised the useable power. Incorporating the estart, the new DOHC head design and going to twin exhaust ports was too much for Honda R&D to get competitive power for 2018. What really concerns me is the bore/stoke ratio and lighten crank. It favors high rpms and if that's part of the problem it will be tuff to fix. Yeah, gearing down helps the motor get along but you are still going to have to ride 10/10th, scream the motor and hope you don't pick the wrong gear. The "Average Joe" might get the holshot but after that he will struggle to keep this bike up front. The little 2018 Honda does have a lot of work into it but it's power is unforgiving and somehow the engine design just didn't gel for a decent powerband. This over weight, single powerband bike is billed as the Holeshot bike, the once every 10 years bike and would set the new standard for 250's. Instead it will more likely go down as the biggest disappointment of 2018. So you can spend $8K for this bike and drop another $2K (likely more) into the All-or-Nothing engine or go with another color.
ok, we get it. Why you are putting so much effort into trying to convince everyone? I'm not a yzf fan, but the last thing I have time for is to troll a yzf thread and post a novel on how I am so much smarter than the Yamaha engine design department. We don't care about your opinion, move along.
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JB 19
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JB 19 1/25/2018 5:53am
1/25/2018 5:53am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2018 5:53am
wfopete wrote:
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk...
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk with some tuners and the writing is on the wall: Getting this bike competitive with the other class leaders will not be cheap or EZ. Pipe, cams, port work and (?) and that is getting competitive with stock bikes, after mods are done to the other class bikes; guess what? The Honda will be down on power again. Honda made several changes to the engine but the biggest was the head and all these changes compromised the useable power. Incorporating the estart, the new DOHC head design and going to twin exhaust ports was too much for Honda R&D to get competitive power for 2018. What really concerns me is the bore/stoke ratio and lighten crank. It favors high rpms and if that's part of the problem it will be tuff to fix. Yeah, gearing down helps the motor get along but you are still going to have to ride 10/10th, scream the motor and hope you don't pick the wrong gear. The "Average Joe" might get the holshot but after that he will struggle to keep this bike up front. The little 2018 Honda does have a lot of work into it but it's power is unforgiving and somehow the engine design just didn't gel for a decent powerband. This over weight, single powerband bike is billed as the Holeshot bike, the once every 10 years bike and would set the new standard for 250's. Instead it will more likely go down as the biggest disappointment of 2018. So you can spend $8K for this bike and drop another $2K (likely more) into the All-or-Nothing engine or go with another color.
Is it down on power or just power in a different spot? What it sounds like to me (I haven't rode one) is that it's a pro rider engine. Mid-top end power without low end that won't be used by fast guys anyway. Ever race a 125? Like REALLY race a 125?

Doesn't sound like it's a lug it and leave it in 3rd gear engine.
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wfopete
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wfopete 1/25/2018 6:40am
1/25/2018 6:40am
Well, there you are.
1
Dirty Points 1/25/2018 9:37am
1/25/2018 9:37am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2018 9:43am
wfopete wrote:
A holeshot is one thing; the overall results are another. Not too many red bikes making the 250 main.
Not that I think that those bikes engines played a big part of where they finished, but starts are the one spot where a bike that's down on bottom end will suffer not one bit.

I have this 125 that's been ported to be the pipey-est, narrow band, gutless-on-bottom thing on earth. It's a clutch it five times to make it through a corner motor. It's a holeshot monster, though.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/25/2018 10:47am
1/25/2018 10:47am
Racer111 wrote:
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right...
The ONLY thing the new 18” CRF250F needs is a 49 tooth sprocket, Yoshimura pipe and vortex piston. Then install a mans hand on the right grip and twist backward and hold on!
wfopete wrote:
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk...
All fine and good but what you are saying is you need to drop big money into the newly designed motor to get competitive power. Talk with some tuners and the writing is on the wall: Getting this bike competitive with the other class leaders will not be cheap or EZ. Pipe, cams, port work and (?) and that is getting competitive with stock bikes, after mods are done to the other class bikes; guess what? The Honda will be down on power again. Honda made several changes to the engine but the biggest was the head and all these changes compromised the useable power. Incorporating the estart, the new DOHC head design and going to twin exhaust ports was too much for Honda R&D to get competitive power for 2018. What really concerns me is the bore/stoke ratio and lighten crank. It favors high rpms and if that's part of the problem it will be tuff to fix. Yeah, gearing down helps the motor get along but you are still going to have to ride 10/10th, scream the motor and hope you don't pick the wrong gear. The "Average Joe" might get the holshot but after that he will struggle to keep this bike up front. The little 2018 Honda does have a lot of work into it but it's power is unforgiving and somehow the engine design just didn't gel for a decent powerband. This over weight, single powerband bike is billed as the Holeshot bike, the once every 10 years bike and would set the new standard for 250's. Instead it will more likely go down as the biggest disappointment of 2018. So you can spend $8K for this bike and drop another $2K (likely more) into the All-or-Nothing engine or go with another color.
How do you factor that the biggest disappointment in 2018 did ok in shootouts then?

I dont think you have even ridden the bike, yet you have a very expert opinion of it....

As I said in a previous post, you have made your point you dont like a bike you have never ridden, all power to you, but let others decide for themselves.
suzuki98
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suzuki98 1/25/2018 10:54am
1/25/2018 10:54am
I have a 2018 crf250r put a Yoshi exhaust 50 tooth rear sprocket and I am very happy with the power of the bike
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 1/25/2018 9:42pm
1/25/2018 9:42pm


Bruce372
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Bruce372 1/30/2018 10:32am
1/30/2018 10:32am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2018 10:35am
2018 crf250 vs 2016 crf250



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