Matthes, JT comments on PEDs

kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 12/13/2017 10:37pm
12/13/2017 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 10:38pm
twotwosix wrote:
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you...
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you spend 4 hours at the practice track and then another hour on your road bike afterwards. PEDs don’t improve your riding technique. PEDs don’t help you develop your factory machine. PEDs don’t train your mental attitude and self talk to be positive and stay focused on your goal. PEDs don’t give you the creative ability to look at a section of Track and develop a faster way through it in your mind. PEDs don’t provide you with years of experience to draw upon in split second situations. PEDs don’t improve your race craft. PEDs don’t give you the mental grit and tenacity to tell your body what it’s going to do 25 minutes into moto 2 at Red Bud. PEDs don’t program your year out in advance to allow for training peaks and valleys. PEDs don’t change your diet or training week to week for you to account for changes in your body. PEDs don’t put you in the 1% of 1%ers. Talent, very hard work and dedication do.

PEDs in Moto would be used to improve strength, recovery and extend endurance. But I don’t think it’s prevalent inside of the current USADA/WADA generation.

As a former amateur bodybuilder, NASM certified trainer, IFA certified sports nutritionist and MX racer since I was a child, believe me, I have perspective on this and am very familiar with most all available drugs and the process/protocol upon which one takes and implements said items.

You know what a better question is? Why do we allow wanna be Pro racers onto a AMA SX/MX who are out of shape and can’t pass a baseline fitness test to show that they won’t need to skip whoops sections during a main event or have their lap times drop 10 seconds a lap by the end of a main event because they aren’t in good enough shape to race professionally for 30 minutes straight? It’s an even better question when it comes to outdoor motocross specifically. I’ve seen some Pros on track that are a danger to themselves and others half way through a race due to their physical conditioning.

There are so many better discussions to have about Pro MX/SX right now. We have the best testing body’s in the world watching our sport right now.
cali11 wrote:
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over...
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over Moutains the year before, to going so fast the next year he had to use his brakes in the corners. Ask JS7 if adderall didn't help him focus.
twotwosix wrote:
I do believe that a proper doping program would make a considerable difference in Outdoor motocross when it comes solely to endurance and strength. I chose...
I do believe that a proper doping program would make a considerable difference in Outdoor motocross when it comes solely to endurance and strength. I chose my words intentionally and didn’t say it wouldn’t help. However, there are so many other things it wouldnt help a motocross athlete with though.

People keep bringing up testosterone. I am assuming because they don’t know about much else? They talk about ‘taking testosterone’ like that is prime PED to take. Testosterone is already in you. Taking a synthetic version of testosterone is only going to elevate your natural test levels and temporarily shut down your natural production. Testosterone levels aren’t the defining factor in a doping program. You just get them elevated and then keep them there. Your grueling training then won’t drop your levels down when you are controlling your levels with a synthetic. Test is like the foundation you build your house on. It’s everything else that is going to make the big differences. So everyone that keeps mentioning test this, test that, sounds silly. There are far greater things to implement than an above average testosterone level.

Simply taking additional synthetic testosterone into your body is not going to make a noticeable difference in hand eye coordination. That simply isn’t how it works. Now if your levels were low and you began to take test to improve your levels to an average or above average level, that could make a noticeable difference. Simply increasing a 22 years old athlete’s test levels from say, 700ng/dl to 2000 isn’t going to give him what instantly needs to get better gate drops than MA800. Said 22 year old athlete’s hand eye coordination isn’t going to be much different. Sorry.

Also, comparing what TRT does for a 55 year old 9-5 male and what it does to a 22 year old, high level motocross athlete is not that same thing.

A well rounded program for a motocross athlete would probably be compromised of blood transfusions, EPO, HGH, a couple choice steroids to increase muscular strength and recovery (not muscle size), some beta blockers, corticosteroids, then stimulants and narcotics around events. And probably more that I’m not up to date on. You know how hard that is to hide from USADA in 2017? This is not 2009. You would need a highly funded, state sponsored program to be able to beat WADA like some folks are implying. I do not believe it is prevalent in our sport right now. Some idiot would have slipped up by now and not one person has. The day we start getting guys popping for SARMs, EPO, DHT orals or higher than average testosterone to epitestosterone levels, then I’ll begin to wonder.
I was just bringing up testosterone because it’s easy to get and beneficial in ways that many people don’t understand. I would guess that inhalers for asthma and adderal are the most abused.
Got to get that oxygen in the system and stay focused!
haydos25
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haydos25 12/13/2017 10:45pm
12/13/2017 10:45pm
twotwosix wrote:
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you...
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you spend 4 hours at the practice track and then another hour on your road bike afterwards. PEDs don’t improve your riding technique. PEDs don’t help you develop your factory machine. PEDs don’t train your mental attitude and self talk to be positive and stay focused on your goal. PEDs don’t give you the creative ability to look at a section of Track and develop a faster way through it in your mind. PEDs don’t provide you with years of experience to draw upon in split second situations. PEDs don’t improve your race craft. PEDs don’t give you the mental grit and tenacity to tell your body what it’s going to do 25 minutes into moto 2 at Red Bud. PEDs don’t program your year out in advance to allow for training peaks and valleys. PEDs don’t change your diet or training week to week for you to account for changes in your body. PEDs don’t put you in the 1% of 1%ers. Talent, very hard work and dedication do.

PEDs in Moto would be used to improve strength, recovery and extend endurance. But I don’t think it’s prevalent inside of the current USADA/WADA generation.

As a former amateur bodybuilder, NASM certified trainer, IFA certified sports nutritionist and MX racer since I was a child, believe me, I have perspective on this and am very familiar with most all available drugs and the process/protocol upon which one takes and implements said items.

You know what a better question is? Why do we allow wanna be Pro racers onto a AMA SX/MX who are out of shape and can’t pass a baseline fitness test to show that they won’t need to skip whoops sections during a main event or have their lap times drop 10 seconds a lap by the end of a main event because they aren’t in good enough shape to race professionally for 30 minutes straight? It’s an even better question when it comes to outdoor motocross specifically. I’ve seen some Pros on track that are a danger to themselves and others half way through a race due to their physical conditioning.

There are so many better discussions to have about Pro MX/SX right now. We have the best testing body’s in the world watching our sport right now.
cali11 wrote:
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over...
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over Moutains the year before, to going so fast the next year he had to use his brakes in the corners. Ask JS7 if adderall didn't help him focus.
twotwosix wrote:
I do believe that a proper doping program would make a considerable difference in Outdoor motocross when it comes solely to endurance and strength. I chose...
I do believe that a proper doping program would make a considerable difference in Outdoor motocross when it comes solely to endurance and strength. I chose my words intentionally and didn’t say it wouldn’t help. However, there are so many other things it wouldnt help a motocross athlete with though.

People keep bringing up testosterone. I am assuming because they don’t know about much else? They talk about ‘taking testosterone’ like that is prime PED to take. Testosterone is already in you. Taking a synthetic version of testosterone is only going to elevate your natural test levels and temporarily shut down your natural production. Testosterone levels aren’t the defining factor in a doping program. You just get them elevated and then keep them there. Your grueling training then won’t drop your levels down when you are controlling your levels with a synthetic. Test is like the foundation you build your house on. It’s everything else that is going to make the big differences. So everyone that keeps mentioning test this, test that, sounds silly. There are far greater things to implement than an above average testosterone level.

Simply taking additional synthetic testosterone into your body is not going to make a noticeable difference in hand eye coordination. That simply isn’t how it works. Now if your levels were low and you began to take test to improve your levels to an average or above average level, that could make a noticeable difference. Simply increasing a 22 years old athlete’s test levels from say, 700ng/dl to 2000 isn’t going to give him what instantly needs to get better gate drops than MA800. Said 22 year old athlete’s hand eye coordination isn’t going to be much different. Sorry.

Also, comparing what TRT does for a 55 year old 9-5 male and what it does to a 22 year old, high level motocross athlete is not that same thing.

A well rounded program for a motocross athlete would probably be compromised of blood transfusions, EPO, HGH, a couple choice steroids to increase muscular strength and recovery (not muscle size), some beta blockers, corticosteroids, then stimulants and narcotics around events. And probably more that I’m not up to date on. You know how hard that is to hide from USADA in 2017? This is not 2009. You would need a highly funded, state sponsored program to be able to beat WADA like some folks are implying. I do not believe it is prevalent in our sport right now. Some idiot would have slipped up by now and not one person has. The day we start getting guys popping for SARMs, EPO, DHT orals or higher than average testosterone to epitestosterone levels, then I’ll begin to wonder.
By SARMS do you mean like the Moss brothers who got pinched for osterine?

I'm sure it's happening, I tend to agree with mathes and jt in that the big 4 or 5 are probably not doing it, they got enough talent and resources to get by without. Or they have the resources to do it without getting caught.

It's the Cade Clasons and Moss brothers of the world that are going to get popped trying to fill the gaps due to being a step below talent wise.
twotwosix
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twotwosix 12/13/2017 10:46pm
12/13/2017 10:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 11:00pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
You are the man, glad your hear! Like I said a testosterone cream wouldn’t elevate you to a failing test!
Rhino wrote:
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day? Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole...
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day?

Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole body when they couldnt get their injectables through customs.

I know a guy whos blood panel showed 1479 for test using cream.. Thats plenty over "Normal"

Some guys were using raws and dissolving into DMSO and rubbing it all over their bodies when their supplier was out.
Depends on the extremes you're willing to go.
kkawboy14 wrote:
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get...
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get him busted, when in reality he should not be using it at all!
The testing of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio would account for it, so no, that is incorrect information. You can raise your levels by any means possible and they will know it. Creams, drops, pellets or a good old fashioned poke. A T/E ratio greater than the normal male average is considered evidence of anabolic steroid abuse by USADA and WADA.

Your messages are coming through clear, I’m just saying that you are wrong.
twotwosix
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twotwosix 12/13/2017 10:57pm
12/13/2017 10:57pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 11:12pm
haydos25 wrote:
By SARMS do you mean like the Moss brothers who got pinched for osterine? I'm sure it's happening, I tend to agree with mathes and jt...
By SARMS do you mean like the Moss brothers who got pinched for osterine?

I'm sure it's happening, I tend to agree with mathes and jt in that the big 4 or 5 are probably not doing it, they got enough talent and resources to get by without. Or they have the resources to do it without getting caught.

It's the Cade Clasons and Moss brothers of the world that are going to get popped trying to fill the gaps due to being a step below talent wise.
Yes, any SARM. I could MAYBE and that’s a tough maybe, see a positive SARM test happening due to an OTC workout supplement. I worked in the supplement industry for a few years and it’s insanely under regulated. Plus they are in AUS. So my gut tells me they may have been on something, but that it’s a toss up. We had issues with manufacturers spiking fat burners, pre workouts and ‘mass gainers’ with real stuff. Not just vitamins! I made all of my comments based on American motocross though. I don’t know enough about other series or continents to comment.

I don’t take the Moss brothers as evidence that Pros are doping, but that’s just my opinion. I will say that they are the closest anyone has gotten to a positive that would make me reconsider. The truth is I don’t know and most people commenting don’t know. Everyone can have their opinion, but starting a witch hunt for PEDs in 2018 AMA Pro Motocross Racing is most likely a lost cause and it’s kind of embarrassing for the sport when we already have Olympic level testing in place.

The Adderall stuff is just those two riders being dumb and not dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s. You can’t take a damn thing on USADAs list if you don’t already have your TUE. These kids on Adderall, asthma medication, the diabetics, you gotta get that TUE done.

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Salsa811
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Salsa811 12/13/2017 11:17pm
12/13/2017 11:17pm
Here is a pretty interesting interview that Joe Rogan did with Victor Conte the former owner of BALCO in which he talks about PED use and testing in sports.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=17FGgWghDOE
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Rhino 12/13/2017 11:23pm
12/13/2017 11:23pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 11:39pm
jbrown15 wrote:
I think allot of guys are confusing PED's with just straight up steroids, steroids just fall under the umbrella of PED's.Taking steroids can help get you...
I think allot of guys are confusing PED's with just straight up steroids, steroids just fall under the umbrella of PED's.Taking steroids can help get you jacked like Carrot Top, but PED's most definitely help with endurance and recovery from training. PED's are a huge range of drugs too, not just steroids. There's even an argument that something as simple a creatine could be considered a PED.
Giygas wrote:
As well as SARMs. It wouldn't shock me if compounds such as Ostarine, GW, and SR-9009 were used in motocross. They are relatively safe and GW...
As well as SARMs. It wouldn't shock me if compounds such as Ostarine, GW, and SR-9009 were used in motocross. They are relatively safe and GW and SR vastly increase aerobic capacity.
That shit is generally garbage, is banned, anyone selling it is usually selling underdosed, and or bunk crap anyway. Sarms, Serms, Secretagogues, all of it.

Usually the ones selling and promoting, are using 4-7 grams of real gear per week too. SO there is that. Hey Buy this garbage chems, nevermind all the real gear !

If you're gonna risk getting popped, you might as well do something worth it.

I think it was The moss brothers got popped for Ostarine. GW-50156(Cardarine) is very hard on the liver for some people.

Here is the thing. If it is legal to buy without a script, it's generally considered garbage, because it if worked, it would require a script.

They can only sell it as a Research Chem. and label it "Not for Human Consumption"
Then you can buy it for your saber toothed monkey fish frog.

A guy at the gym had some IGF-1 LR3 lab tested. Came back as ND. Worse yet, it was nothing but relabled BAC water. Not all Research Chem companies are that shady, but they fold up shop and re-open under another name.

Oh, same for the GHRP-6. ND. Same result. Resent it back to test it for ANY active compounds. all they found was BAC Water.

The company was gone overnight when the news hit the forums.

Alot of this shit is usually laced with a little test, or Dianabol, or something cheap as shit to buy raws for from china. So people see a little result and keep buying. Its all a scam.

Usually these places open up, sell legit stuff for a while, get a following, then start underdosing and/or no dosing.

Its no different that UGL AAS brands . Hard to find legit sources.

Recently one brand was shut down, and they were using a legit pharma companies exact logos and name. That company never made any AAS, ever. Of any type.

It was quality stuff for a while, being sold right out in the open.





Rhino
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Rhino 12/13/2017 11:53pm
12/13/2017 11:53pm
Rhino wrote:
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day? Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole...
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day?

Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole body when they couldnt get their injectables through customs.

I know a guy whos blood panel showed 1479 for test using cream.. Thats plenty over "Normal"

Some guys were using raws and dissolving into DMSO and rubbing it all over their bodies when their supplier was out.
Depends on the extremes you're willing to go.
kkawboy14 wrote:
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get...
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get him busted, when in reality he should not be using it at all!
twotwosix wrote:
The testing of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio would account for it, so no, that is incorrect information. You can raise your levels by any means possible...
The testing of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio would account for it, so no, that is incorrect information. You can raise your levels by any means possible and they will know it. Creams, drops, pellets or a good old fashioned poke. A T/E ratio greater than the normal male average is considered evidence of anabolic steroid abuse by USADA and WADA.

Your messages are coming through clear, I’m just saying that you are wrong.
They can test for Epi Test now also.

If you're doing the right compounds you can do a gram or two of test 2 days out from a test and a blood panel will read within normal.

And this guy was doing 5-6 Grams per week total for 6 months.

Usually 4 grams of Test, and 2 grams of other stuff. Pulled all long acting esters 1 month out.
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Fearo 12/14/2017 12:43am
12/14/2017 12:43am
This thread is the definition of retarded.

PEDs were in MX 10 years ago, they are now, and they will be 10 years from now.

"Motocross is a skill based sport". This is not only just partially true, it is completely beside the point.

How does one increase one's skill level? By practicing more. How is one able to practice more without being fatigued everyday. BY TAKING SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS YOU TO INCREASE YOUR WORKLOAD DRASTICALLY.

There are a million ways and a huge variety of PED's that can be beneficial in motocross. I simply can not believe anyone in this day and age could believe there is no PED use in one of the most physically and mentally challenging sports in the world, that has virtually NO testing other than a few piss tests a year. No blood testing, no biopassport, no whereabouts, nothing.
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roninho 12/14/2017 12:59am
12/14/2017 12:59am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Wads and Usada is being called into question because they never caught Lance and others. I outlined something they could do in my previous post. Establish...
Wads and Usada is being called into question because they never caught Lance and others.

I outlined something they could do in my previous post. Establish a baseline at the beginning of the year for everyone and then random test after that.
ML512 wrote:
They basically do that with biopassports...
Yes that's true.
If you look at cycling and the use of the biopassport you see that it seems to have the effect of reducing the extremes in dopage use. Basically riders start to micro-dose so that there are no strange values in the biopassport.

However there is a simple problem with fighting doping: It always takes time to get a way to detect new doping products. So there is a natural disadvantage. Athletes/teams with money can take advantage of this.It was the case for Epo (in all it versions) for many years.


Imo the easiest way to reduce doping usage is by announcing starting today we will be doing retro testing. So your blood sample of today will be tested today, in 3 years, 6 and 10 years with the newest testing procedures. A guy like Armstrong would have been caught for doping in the early 00's (for using epo in the 90s).
Underground 12/14/2017 1:05am
12/14/2017 1:05am
Dam this thread is starting to get juicey.
If it magically disappears i think we can draw a conclussion.
Be plenty of main players be following this thread closely too no doubt.
I'm a fan of tighter regulation BTW cause just as bike technology eventually trickles down from factory bike to mini's, so do training methods and regimes from pro's to juniors, and PEDS just should never, ever be connected with children cause there's parents out there that will do it to get junior to win.
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Turbojez 12/14/2017 1:16am
12/14/2017 1:16am
One simple question, do you know anyone, who is able to put in a couple of hard, 30 minute motos in the morning heat, go jogging or do a 1-3 hour bicycle ride in the afternoon, and hit the gym for weight training in the evening?

If you do know such a beast, do you think he would be able to wake up the next day and repeat the process?

It's all in the rest and recovery, which can be greatly improved with the use of certain substances.
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daemon616 12/14/2017 2:04am
12/14/2017 2:04am
#1 if you don't use Eks you can't win and #2

I rest my case.
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motosmith 12/14/2017 3:59am
12/14/2017 3:59am
The "getting huge muscle mass doesn't help" comments are stupid. PED's are not taken to gain muscle mass, they are taken to speed recovery. Thats why Lance armstrong is rail thin. The only sport on earth that compares to the cardio that moto requires is cycling. Its massivly abused in cycling but doesnt give an advantage in moto?
hellbillyohio 12/14/2017 4:05am
12/14/2017 4:05am
So the real question is, did Mike Alessi get holseshot so often due to PED's or laser pointer assistance from his brother?
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MX-LIFE. 12/14/2017 4:21am
12/14/2017 4:21am
Premix wrote:
So serious question here, I feel like we need to preface this especially in regards to this topic. So as of recently, Clason was suspended due...
So serious question here, I feel like we need to preface this especially in regards to this topic.

So as of recently, Clason was suspended due to a positive test and there appears to be no resolution in the near future. So when DM18 was popped and fired from Kawi for whatever “substance” he had in his locker, was he tested immediately afterwords? Im assuming if it was bad enough for Kawi to fire him, it probabaly wasn’t legal. Or did his TUE just find it’s way into the file cabinet, because he was right back to racing in 2016....
It's funny that I've asked this same question many times and it seems to have been answered although on another post some one did touch on the Davi Millsaps situation but I've asked DC and Matthes this question,so hey JT what did Davi Millsaps have in the syringe in his team Kawasaki locker and who was the Kawasaki team manager at the time,did he later quit the team or did he get fired? Davi Wasn't tested or banned getting fired was his save!
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MX-LIFE. 12/14/2017 4:30am
12/14/2017 4:30am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2017 4:31am
jeffro503 wrote:
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs. If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy...
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs.

If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy still be winning? I guess the guy , that's clean in 12th place most of the time would be mopping the floor with these guys....right?

Don't get me wrong....I definitely think guys are using , but to say some aren't and some are , is fucking retarded.

Taking PED's with no fitness won't do a thing anyways. You STILL have to work harder than the guys you're racing against.

But go ahead with your witch hunt , it's funny to watch. Me and this guy I just met will be drinking a beer having a good laugh.

NorCal 50+ wrote:
Dude, what are you talking about? There is no discussion of a conspiracy here, just a discussion of JT and Matthes' comments on PED use. Posting...
Dude, what are you talking about? There is no discussion of a conspiracy here, just a discussion of JT and Matthes' comments on PED use. Posting a lot doesn't mean you say a lot of intelligent things.
It's pretty stupid to call people "nut jobs" for discussing a factual conversation.
jeffro503 wrote:
I'm saying that they all turn out the same. A bunch of guys hashing back and forth about who used , who didn't , who was...
I'm saying that they all turn out the same. A bunch of guys hashing back and forth about who used , who didn't , who was a cheater , who wasn't and guys that say they have " inside info "......and nothing ever happens.

Did I pretty much nail what the thread is about? Was there any new earth shattering evidence that's showed up? Anything change at all?

They always turn into a " lets throw our least favorite rider under the bus "......which is exactly what's going on here I bet. And as far as me posting here a bunch....not that much any more.
Ohh like they threw JS7 under the train (to hell with the bus) for not turning in the TUE and then getting a suspension? How many concussions does it take to get on Adderall anyway?
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VET74 12/14/2017 4:48am
12/14/2017 4:48am
News flash...just because the sport didn't test 10 years ago for a controlled substance still doesn't make it legal or right. That's like saying in the old days that just because you didn't get caught running a big bore kit in the 125 class you weren't doing anything wrong. And Manny if you've been in the industry as long as you have and and all you can say is this is just a witch hunt and Kardashian drama, you only confirmed how full of crap you are. I don't think that anyone is questioning whether very,very hard work and tremendous talent is still required, but having an edge on recovery times, and giving someone the ability to push just a little bit harder is the only advantage some may need. I'm not insinuating the top guys are using anything because I have no real clue about their genetic makeup, but to deny anything is being used in the sport because no one has come forward with pictures/video or blood tests, shows a real unprecedented ignorance.
Dinosaur Media 12/14/2017 4:55am
12/14/2017 4:55am
Johnny Depp wrote:
4 time Tour De France winner tests positive. History repeats itself. Article 4 hours old. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/sports/cycling/chris-froome-doping.html If you can't catch these guys until years later, in...
4 time Tour De France winner tests positive. History repeats itself.
Article 4 hours old.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/sports/cycling/chris-froome-doping.h…

If you can't catch these guys until years later, in the most rigorously tested sport in the world, you can't catch anyone.
Bradley Wiggins on the same shit. Another tour winner...same team. He like Froome was prescribed it by the same Team Sky Doctor...Wiggins used to be an Olympic track cyclist and lost 30 lbs to go on and win the tour. That is the equivalent of Usain Bolt wining the marathon at the next Olympics...and people buy this shit. Sorry folks. Your Idols are false. You are lied to from birth...your parents, then your teachers, the media and your significant others...you expect some athlete who has no idea of your existence to be forthcoming?

Pit Row

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Dinosaur Media 12/14/2017 5:17am
12/14/2017 5:17am
Matthes wrote:
When there was no testing for anything except for recreational drugs, why wouldn't you try to push the envelope and see what you can take to...
When there was no testing for anything except for recreational drugs, why wouldn't you try to push the envelope and see what you can take to make you better? There are millions of dollars at stake after all.

Consequently, why would you try that when there is such testing in the sport and when you look at our top guys, none of them appear to be some machines without flaws so why couldn't you accept that there's no way PED's are running around the pits like Jeff says they are. Are there dudes breaking the rules? Probably but there's no way I believe it's a huge issue in the sport. In talks with riders now, ex-riders who had these elite trainers, teams, the trainers themselves, I just don't see it being so widespread.

Getting huge wouldn't help a racer out as we've all detailed and any of the blood doping stuff that I've read about and talked to people about is too expensive, takes too much knowledge from chemists/trainers that only the top guys could afford it. And back to the top guys getting tested randomly throughout the season to take that risk.

As far as us working for the promoter of the MX series, any listener of mine knows that I think and have said over and over that there should be random motorhome checks for IV's at the nationals (although really, the amount of motorhomes are WAY down from where they once were). I asked someone in power about that one time and they told me it's private property and you couldn't enforce that.

I'm just not sure why the sport that has WADA and USADA testing (agencies that are accepted worldwide to be the best) in it is STILL being called into question as being some drug-fueled race to pump the best drugs into your system? Like, what else could be done by "the sport" to stop the guys IF, and it's a big if, they wanted to cheat?
Rhino wrote:
But not all make you big. Some give virtually no mass gain and what, if any it does(For a male, or a female stacking with some...
But not all make you big. Some give virtually no mass gain and what, if any it does(For a male, or a female stacking with some small amounts of test), is lean and dry, but they will give massive strength and fatigue resistance.

Basically the same compounds chicks doing Pro Bikini shows do to get capped delts and Dat ass.
Womens fitness and Pro Bikini is as dirty as any mens sport.

This chick just blew out alot with the amount of compounds she was using.



Shall we interview DD? She was ripped and definately had that ass back in her competing days...
St Ann More 12/14/2017 5:33am
12/14/2017 5:33am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2017 5:36am
motosmith wrote:
The "getting huge muscle mass doesn't help" comments are stupid. PED's are not taken to gain muscle mass, they are taken to speed recovery. Thats why...
The "getting huge muscle mass doesn't help" comments are stupid. PED's are not taken to gain muscle mass, they are taken to speed recovery. Thats why Lance armstrong is rail thin. The only sport on earth that compares to the cardio that moto requires is cycling. Its massivly abused in cycling but doesnt give an advantage in moto?
Aside from cycling, what makes MX tougher than running or rowing from a cardio aspect?

mxjeff575
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mxjeff575 12/14/2017 6:01am
12/14/2017 6:01am
Turbojez wrote:
One simple question, do you know anyone, who is able to put in a couple of hard, 30 minute motos in the morning heat, go jogging...
One simple question, do you know anyone, who is able to put in a couple of hard, 30 minute motos in the morning heat, go jogging or do a 1-3 hour bicycle ride in the afternoon, and hit the gym for weight training in the evening?

If you do know such a beast, do you think he would be able to wake up the next day and repeat the process?

It's all in the rest and recovery, which can be greatly improved with the use of certain substances.
This ^. When I hear how hard a rider trains, and that he just puts in massive time and trains so hard, it sure makes you wonder "how" he is able to handle such a grueling workload.
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MxKing809 12/14/2017 6:31am
12/14/2017 6:31am
2 industry insiders (that have good reputations) stated that people admitted to them about HGH and PED use.

How is this not a story or investigation?

Someone of power - DC, Dave Prater, GuyB, whoever.... explain me that.

^ That is the reason people thumb their nose at moto media.... there is absolutely zero content that might hurt someone’s feelings.
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MxKing809 12/14/2017 6:35am
12/14/2017 6:35am
Also,

DC - what were the rules for AMA pro racing in the early 2000’s in terms of PED use? Could you please help me get my hands on the rule PDF’s from that era?
86honda
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86honda 12/14/2017 6:38am
12/14/2017 6:38am
Im not a Pro Educational Deterant fan but if they home skool the kids well look how Turned out I am!
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kkawboy14 12/14/2017 6:39am
12/14/2017 6:39am
Rhino wrote:
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day? Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole...
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day?

Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole body when they couldnt get their injectables through customs.

I know a guy whos blood panel showed 1479 for test using cream.. Thats plenty over "Normal"

Some guys were using raws and dissolving into DMSO and rubbing it all over their bodies when their supplier was out.
Depends on the extremes you're willing to go.
kkawboy14 wrote:
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get...
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get him busted, when in reality he should not be using it at all!
twotwosix wrote:
The testing of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio would account for it, so no, that is incorrect information. You can raise your levels by any means possible...
The testing of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio would account for it, so no, that is incorrect information. You can raise your levels by any means possible and they will know it. Creams, drops, pellets or a good old fashioned poke. A T/E ratio greater than the normal male average is considered evidence of anabolic steroid abuse by USADA and WADA.

Your messages are coming through clear, I’m just saying that you are wrong.
So it’s impossible to use some testosterone cream and pass a test?

All I’m saying is your wrong.
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motosmith 12/14/2017 6:42am
12/14/2017 6:42am
St Ann More wrote:
Aside from cycling, what makes MX tougher than running or rowing from a cardio aspect?

I think moto is the most difficult sport as far as overall endurance. Cycling in a tour has got to be right up there. I agree with you, there are a few other sports that are at the same level. The two you list and probably Soccer too.
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-eagle- 12/14/2017 6:43am
12/14/2017 6:43am
I can't believe these dudes put this out.
I also can't believe it doesn't get mentioned more when this topic comes up.

Time Stamped for the Relevant Topic: 18:50-28:16

stillgonnagreaseit 12/14/2017 6:50am
12/14/2017 6:50am
MxKing809 wrote:
2 industry insiders (that have good reputations) stated that people admitted to them about HGH and PED use. How is this not a story or investigation...
2 industry insiders (that have good reputations) stated that people admitted to them about HGH and PED use.

How is this not a story or investigation?

Someone of power - DC, Dave Prater, GuyB, whoever.... explain me that.

^ That is the reason people thumb their nose at moto media.... there is absolutely zero content that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Damn dude, you have become more annoying than Jeff Allessi on this subject. Instead of flapping your vagina flaps at guyB, jt or Steve why don't you go archive the ama rule book, say 2002? No problem, I just did. Don't want you breaking a nail princess.
FYI, whether it's stated or just lack of verbiage on the matter it was perfectly legal to race on PED's, HGH, hell even cocain.
Why would reporters head hunt riders for following the rules?
UpTiTe 12/14/2017 6:56am
12/14/2017 6:56am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2017 6:57am
MxKing809 wrote:
2 industry insiders (that have good reputations) stated that people admitted to them about HGH and PED use. How is this not a story or investigation...
2 industry insiders (that have good reputations) stated that people admitted to them about HGH and PED use.

How is this not a story or investigation?

Someone of power - DC, Dave Prater, GuyB, whoever.... explain me that.

^ That is the reason people thumb their nose at moto media.... there is absolutely zero content that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Guys like their jobs and they like to eat, can't expect one of those guys to do something like that.


Story needs to be told by an outsider who doesn't rely on the industry for a living.
Dinosaur Media 12/14/2017 6:59am
12/14/2017 6:59am
So...on a larger scale...after looking at Icarus, the Russian director for antidoping protocol admits that the large majority of their athletes are on PED's and our American athletes, who by the way have won more Olympic medals of late are clean? Oh fuck...

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