Thad Duvall Stripped of win at John Penton GNCC (UPDATED WITH VIDEO)

montesagold
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montesagold 7/11/2017 11:16am
7/11/2017 11:16am
doofy wrote:
The whole story about him purposely ramming scott russell into a tree, and bragging about coming to races hungover, and then calling rodney smith a prick...
The whole story about him purposely ramming scott russell into a tree, and bragging about coming to races hungover, and then calling rodney smith a prick was just a bit too much for me. I havent met shane but as just another nobody Rodney Smith will take time out of his day and talk to you as if you guys were lifelong pals. I dont see how a guy who purposely ran someone into a freakin tree just to prove a point can call a guy like that a douchebag.
Was this when he was teammates with Scott Russell on Muzzy Kawasakis and he ran him out of a corner and into the woods at Road Atlanta or when Russell was on the Harley at Daytona? Ballsy move for sure, just shows that what you have heard is just as you said, a "story". If you know anything about Watts or that era of offroad racing you would know that all of the negative hype around Shane was mostly just that... hype. He knew how to stir the pot and go against the establishment and all of these stories went along in keeping him relevant. He was a badass, he changed the game...
montesagold
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montesagold 7/11/2017 11:23am
7/11/2017 11:23am Edited Date/Time 7/11/2017 11:28am
wide open wally wrote:
I don't think anyone is rigging the series for Russell to win. He's fast enough to do it on his own. But Thad has made more...
I don't think anyone is rigging the series for Russell to win. He's fast enough to do it on his own. But Thad has made more interesting then it's been in years, so people are more hyped then usual. Any GNCC follower from the mid 2000s has waited for this Thad to show up. But the same could be said for Russell. I have met them both before through mutual friends while they were still in the A classes and they are both good dudes. Normal as they come. The stories of Russell just showing up and ripping with 0 training are epic. I know his old teammate well and he said it used to fire him up like no other to put in the crazy work to see Russell barely ride in a months time and still dominate.
Not relevant, everyone knows he has talent. Everyone also knows he has a shitty attitude and no one crosses the Coombs at least in the offroad realm. I've been around GNCC for 20+ years and I've seen 99% of these type of situations fall to a certain group's benefit. From the race being cut short at Steele Creek to Whibley getting penalized at Loretta's just to name a few. I will agree that everyone has waited on a battle like this for some time, all forms of motosport have been lacking close racing. The fact of the matter is that both of these guys have unreal talent so we want to see them battle head to head with no bullshit calls like these to taint the results.
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HardTaco 7/11/2017 12:17pm
7/11/2017 12:17pm
wide open wally wrote:
I don't think anyone is rigging the series for Russell to win. He's fast enough to do it on his own. But Thad has made more...
I don't think anyone is rigging the series for Russell to win. He's fast enough to do it on his own. But Thad has made more interesting then it's been in years, so people are more hyped then usual. Any GNCC follower from the mid 2000s has waited for this Thad to show up. But the same could be said for Russell. I have met them both before through mutual friends while they were still in the A classes and they are both good dudes. Normal as they come. The stories of Russell just showing up and ripping with 0 training are epic. I know his old teammate well and he said it used to fire him up like no other to put in the crazy work to see Russell barely ride in a months time and still dominate.
montesagold wrote:
Not relevant, everyone knows he has talent. Everyone also knows he has a shitty attitude and no one crosses the Coombs at least in the offroad...
Not relevant, everyone knows he has talent. Everyone also knows he has a shitty attitude and no one crosses the Coombs at least in the offroad realm. I've been around GNCC for 20+ years and I've seen 99% of these type of situations fall to a certain group's benefit. From the race being cut short at Steele Creek to Whibley getting penalized at Loretta's just to name a few. I will agree that everyone has waited on a battle like this for some time, all forms of motosport have been lacking close racing. The fact of the matter is that both of these guys have unreal talent so we want to see them battle head to head with no bullshit calls like these to taint the results.
I would pay attention to this guy
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peelout 7/11/2017 12:39pm
7/11/2017 12:39pm
doofy wrote:
the rule states anything 25' from the marked trail. that rule gets broken probably a hundred thousand times per race, at least it has every gncc...
the rule states anything 25' from the marked trail. that rule gets broken probably a hundred thousand times per race, at least it has every gncc Ive raced the past 10 years.

I know nobody cares about quads, but the same thing happened to Chris Borich when he was battling bill ballance for his first pro championship. a spectator pointed him at a line, chris took (as well as many others) and chris won the race, bill protested after and subsequently chris lost the title due to being docked that race.
you're right, nobody cares about quads

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wide open wally 7/11/2017 1:24pm
7/11/2017 1:24pm


Curious to see how they roped/ribboned it off when fans were sending him through there.
early
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early 7/11/2017 3:47pm
7/11/2017 3:47pm
Maybe not the worst course cut but the intent of the section seemed pretty clear. If there hadnt been a tv camera there it probably wouldnt be an issue. That kid looked like a trouble maker.
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Johnny Depp 7/11/2017 3:48pm
7/11/2017 3:48pm
There were no cameras where he cut one turn out of the creek. Saved about 10 seconds max and he won by 2.5 minutes. There was an obvious trail from other riders. I bet that dude that pointed out the line is feeling pretty smart right now.
harescrambled 7/11/2017 3:49pm
7/11/2017 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2017 3:50pm
wide open wally wrote:
[url=https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw]https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw[/url] Video of it happening. I'll have to say that was for sure way worse then how the original story went.
https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw


Video of it happening. I'll have to say that was for sure way worse then how the original story went.
The original story was he went 4 feet too far off course...which would be 29 feet, since the rules allow 25 feet from the marked course. Can't see whether there were double arrows there though
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Ramrod 7/11/2017 3:52pm
7/11/2017 3:52pm
wide open wally wrote:
[url=https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw]https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw[/url] Video of it happening. I'll have to say that was for sure way worse then how the original story went.
https://youtu.be/IbpPYCaxhTw


Video of it happening. I'll have to say that was for sure way worse then how the original story went.
What!? That's it?

That was a great line. That's what guys do in these races, you always have to look for better lines or dare I say "cheater lines". That wasn't much of a shortcut as in like 100' from the main course.
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agn5009 7/11/2017 4:01pm
7/11/2017 4:01pm
Fantastic line choice.
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Steadman 7/11/2017 4:03pm
7/11/2017 4:03pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
There were no cameras where he cut one turn out of the creek. Saved about 10 seconds max and he won by 2.5 minutes. There was...
There were no cameras where he cut one turn out of the creek. Saved about 10 seconds max and he won by 2.5 minutes. There was an obvious trail from other riders. I bet that dude that pointed out the line is feeling pretty smart right now.
The AMA should have taken all things into consideration. One, a fan was suggesting a potential issue and to take a new line and two, that move didn't have a significant advantage to change the outcome of the race.

The guy who pointed out the line has already contacted Thad online apologizing (Thad posted on Instagram ) He feels real bad about it (the kid) Cool thing was Thad basically said no worries and thank you for all the support. He is being so level headed about it.
SeaClassExpert 7/11/2017 4:08pm
7/11/2017 4:08pm
It's called 'The A-Line' and it's what everybody does during hare scrambles.

Can't believe they stripped a win from him over that, rules aside.
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Stuntman949 7/11/2017 4:33pm
7/11/2017 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2017 4:39pm
Amsoil is just mad he didn't ride by their banner
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navalseabee 7/11/2017 6:17pm
7/11/2017 6:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/11/2017 6:18pm
Hmm. Having taken advice from sideline pointers many times I can understand why they did it. However that's a pretty big cut and I'm sure the riders saw the cameras there, just not a smart choice on their end IMHO.
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WVUpetro2013 7/11/2017 6:32pm
7/11/2017 6:32pm
After seeing the video, docking him a position for that is pretty dam lame. Pretty sure if a fan pointed me to that line I would have taken it, and I am going a hell of a lot slower with much more time to process the decision and react.
ebers
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ebers 7/11/2017 6:58pm
7/11/2017 6:58pm
I'd be curious to see helmet cam footage from someone approaching that section to see what the marking looked like.

As far as saying anything is handed to K. Russell and things are rigged to work in his favor... come on.
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HardTaco 7/11/2017 7:38pm
7/11/2017 7:38pm
Some of you guys think that's a big cut on a ~10 mile course ? LOL. According to AMA he went 29 feet and not 25. Those 4 feet allowed him to win by 2.5 minutes.....Dry

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montesagold
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montesagold 7/12/2017 6:28am
7/12/2017 6:28am
If you watch the video and still maintain the opinion that this was an illegal line, you have obviously not raced an offroad race. If you have raced a Gncc it must not have been the 3 hour race with the Pros... by the end of the weekend every section you come into is criss crossed by other lines and the main lines have long gone away. The name of the game is to take every line you can to get on some fresh dirt and as long as you are not busting through track markers or veering off out of sight of the main trail, no one is ever consciously thinking "Am I within 25ft of the main line". Don't throw off on the kid as he was just out there doing what 100 more people were doing, pointing new lines. This has never been an issue and is never talked about other than when someone is obviously cheating (as in cutting a mile or two off at a time). Let me take that back... yea it was an issue that one time with Paul Whilbley, very similar scenario... Kailub was getting beat. You guys say what you want but I was done speculating after Steele Creek a few years ago when they cut the race short because the hills were getting "impassible" well guess what, Whibley was at the top of the hill and Kailub wasn't, so they referred back to the previous lap where Kailub was leading and called it a race. When you pull in a property and mighty KTM has the choice pit area with the only dry ground every single round, you know who is in control. There is a reason so many people have pulled against Russell in recent years.
TripleFive 7/12/2017 6:34am
7/12/2017 6:34am
LET BILLY BALLANCE RIDE!
montesagold
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montesagold 7/12/2017 6:34am
7/12/2017 6:34am
If anyone still argues that this was a valid call, please take note of Walker Fowlers comment below... If an obvious 3 foot wide line from the day before was a problem, the officials would have blocked the entry to the line before the start of the motorcycle race, they did not...



agn5009
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agn5009 7/12/2017 7:30am
7/12/2017 7:30am
montesagold wrote:
If anyone still argues that this was a valid call, please take note of Walker Fowlers comment below... If an obvious 3 foot wide line from...
If anyone still argues that this was a valid call, please take note of Walker Fowlers comment below... If an obvious 3 foot wide line from the day before was a problem, the officials would have blocked the entry to the line before the start of the motorcycle race, they did not...



Cool of Walker to step up. I would love an explanation from the GNCC crew but we will never get it. This whole thing will disappear in about 5 days and won't be brought up again until something similar happens. Thad is being extremely professional about it, which is awesome. You gotta feel for Chris Bach too, since we all know they basically penalized him as a fluffer. He never would have been penalized if Thad hadn't been. This is a direct shot at Thad because he's riding so damn well and finally pushing Kaliub for the championship.

This whole thing is a damn shit show. And it's too bad we won't hear anything more about it once this blows over.
montesagold
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montesagold 7/12/2017 8:04am
7/12/2017 8:04am
agn5009 wrote:
Cool of Walker to step up. I would love an explanation from the GNCC crew but we will never get it. This whole thing will disappear...
Cool of Walker to step up. I would love an explanation from the GNCC crew but we will never get it. This whole thing will disappear in about 5 days and won't be brought up again until something similar happens. Thad is being extremely professional about it, which is awesome. You gotta feel for Chris Bach too, since we all know they basically penalized him as a fluffer. He never would have been penalized if Thad hadn't been. This is a direct shot at Thad because he's riding so damn well and finally pushing Kaliub for the championship.

This whole thing is a damn shit show. And it's too bad we won't hear anything more about it once this blows over.
Well said, I thought the same thing for Bach... he has had an uphill climb to the past year or two and this was one of the best rides for him recently. Thad is riding to his full potential finally and he is handling it EXTREMELY well, I've been around all these guys for years and that guy shows so much heart, so outgoing to every single fan and very appreciative. He even congratulated Grant on his win on Instagram and you could tell it was sincere. I have nothing personal against Russell but I know enough to say his attitude is lacking. He shuns people on raceday(I understand, its business and everyone takes it serious), he lobbies over his which series he wants to ride and doesn't show up at certain events and he gets ultra paranoid and spends way to much defending himself on social media. The sad thing for him is the fact that his talent should speak for itself, unfortunately his legacy will be tainted with these kind of scenarios and his poor attitude.
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mxcrf34 7/12/2017 8:34am
7/12/2017 8:34am
This past Spring, I was training a kid getting ready for the GNCC series. Thad was staying at the family's house and getting some seat time down here in Florida.

Thad was a super cool dude and judging by my interactions with him, something like this was not an intentional way to cheat.

The dude puts hard work in and gets screwed over. Sorry to hear this.
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bh84 7/12/2017 8:52am
7/12/2017 8:52am
doofy wrote:
the rule states anything 25' from the marked trail. that rule gets broken probably a hundred thousand times per race, at least it has every gncc...
the rule states anything 25' from the marked trail. that rule gets broken probably a hundred thousand times per race, at least it has every gncc Ive raced the past 10 years.

I know nobody cares about quads, but the same thing happened to Chris Borich when he was battling bill ballance for his first pro championship. a spectator pointed him at a line, chris took (as well as many others) and chris won the race, bill protested after and subsequently chris lost the title due to being docked that race.
TripleFive wrote:
The most interesting information in this thread is that there's a quad rider named Bill Ballance.
He's retired now, but he is a legend in GNCC ATV. Yamaha even built a special edition Bill Balance YFZ for a while with #1 plates on it and special graphics.
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StretchASU 7/12/2017 8:58am
7/12/2017 8:58am
That was the shortest "course cutting" I have ever seen at a GNCC. Bach was collateral and the inconsistency in how this rule has been applied and IMO will continue to get applied is what makes this incident stink like no other. You mean to tell me that ONLY Thad and Chris were the only two to be caught taking that line during the Pro race? Kinda smells like bullshit. From Thad's IG posts, the kid that pointed the line apparently messaged him and apologized and Thad did the right thing by blocking out all that followed the apology.
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JRT812 7/12/2017 9:17am
7/12/2017 9:17am
I agree with what others have said.... I've seen worse. Interesting they haven't appealed the decision.
OffroadFanboy 7/12/2017 9:21am
7/12/2017 9:21am
montesagold wrote:
If you watch the video and still maintain the opinion that this was an illegal line, you have obviously not raced an offroad race. If you...
If you watch the video and still maintain the opinion that this was an illegal line, you have obviously not raced an offroad race. If you have raced a Gncc it must not have been the 3 hour race with the Pros... by the end of the weekend every section you come into is criss crossed by other lines and the main lines have long gone away. The name of the game is to take every line you can to get on some fresh dirt and as long as you are not busting through track markers or veering off out of sight of the main trail, no one is ever consciously thinking "Am I within 25ft of the main line". Don't throw off on the kid as he was just out there doing what 100 more people were doing, pointing new lines. This has never been an issue and is never talked about other than when someone is obviously cheating (as in cutting a mile or two off at a time). Let me take that back... yea it was an issue that one time with Paul Whilbley, very similar scenario... Kailub was getting beat. You guys say what you want but I was done speculating after Steele Creek a few years ago when they cut the race short because the hills were getting "impassible" well guess what, Whibley was at the top of the hill and Kailub wasn't, so they referred back to the previous lap where Kailub was leading and called it a race. When you pull in a property and mighty KTM has the choice pit area with the only dry ground every single round, you know who is in control. There is a reason so many people have pulled against Russell in recent years.
Come on man, that was 2010 and Kailub wasnt even in XC1 then and the only thing he won was the XC2 class.

http://www.racer-results.net/results/gncc/2010/class.asp?e=19&c=65&s=5&…

And KTM only has "choice" pit area because they put the defending champions pit in the number 1 spot and theres plenty of times theyve been parked in a swamp too

This conspiracy crap is ridiculous!
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agn5009 7/12/2017 9:34am
7/12/2017 9:34am
montesagold wrote:
If you watch the video and still maintain the opinion that this was an illegal line, you have obviously not raced an offroad race. If you...
If you watch the video and still maintain the opinion that this was an illegal line, you have obviously not raced an offroad race. If you have raced a Gncc it must not have been the 3 hour race with the Pros... by the end of the weekend every section you come into is criss crossed by other lines and the main lines have long gone away. The name of the game is to take every line you can to get on some fresh dirt and as long as you are not busting through track markers or veering off out of sight of the main trail, no one is ever consciously thinking "Am I within 25ft of the main line". Don't throw off on the kid as he was just out there doing what 100 more people were doing, pointing new lines. This has never been an issue and is never talked about other than when someone is obviously cheating (as in cutting a mile or two off at a time). Let me take that back... yea it was an issue that one time with Paul Whilbley, very similar scenario... Kailub was getting beat. You guys say what you want but I was done speculating after Steele Creek a few years ago when they cut the race short because the hills were getting "impassible" well guess what, Whibley was at the top of the hill and Kailub wasn't, so they referred back to the previous lap where Kailub was leading and called it a race. When you pull in a property and mighty KTM has the choice pit area with the only dry ground every single round, you know who is in control. There is a reason so many people have pulled against Russell in recent years.
OffroadFanboy wrote:
Come on man, that was 2010 and Kailub wasnt even in XC1 then and the only thing he won was the XC2 class. http://www.racer-results.net/results/gncc/2010/class.asp?e=19&c=65&s=5&r=3 And KTM...
Come on man, that was 2010 and Kailub wasnt even in XC1 then and the only thing he won was the XC2 class.

http://www.racer-results.net/results/gncc/2010/class.asp?e=19&c=65&s=5&…

And KTM only has "choice" pit area because they put the defending champions pit in the number 1 spot and theres plenty of times theyve been parked in a swamp too

This conspiracy crap is ridiculous!
No, it's not. Sure, some of it may be nitpicking or a bit of an overreaction but a lot of these instances have merit to them. Such as this weekend. That "shortcut" was very similar to ones that are used each and every race. There was a fan clearly pointing riders in that direction. I cant wait til someone present comes out and says they seen KR or multiple others using it
jasonward73
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jasonward73 7/12/2017 9:37am
7/12/2017 9:37am
I race the Senior A class in the Florida Trail Riders Hare Scramble series and let me tell you that line is nothing short of great line selection (albeit pointed out by a spectator). I would've taken that line in a heart beat. I've made my own "A lines" that are far more aggressive than this one and seen lines even way more aggressive that never raised an eyebrow.

On top of that he has someone telling him where to go. This isn't MX. They don't have flaggers to warn you of every downed rider. If I was him and was being waved over like that it would cross my mind that I was being waved over for a reason (potentially a downed rider or someone stuck in a hole). Christ! It's a fucking mudder of an off road race. Creative lines (within reason) are a skill.

Jason

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