Roczen, Tomac, Dungey

mxjon454
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mxjon454
Where do you guys think roczen would be in all this if he never got hurt? Would tomac not have gotten as many wins? Would tomac be dominating like he has been? I know we will never know, but we can always speculate. IMO Tomac wouldnt have as many wins but i think roczen wouldve had a few nights off the podium and the points race would be as tight as it is right now. Tomac is too good on that bike right now. What a season it couldve been to have all 3 guys healthy. Hopefully roczen will still be the same rider when he comes back.
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MX Guy
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MX Guy 4/23/2017 9:28am
4/23/2017 9:28am
I think the answer is in the question. Kenny tried to do what Eli is doing right now... didn't work for him.
darkbelow13 4/23/2017 9:38am
4/23/2017 9:38am
I'll just say that I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomac became a completely different rider after Roczen got hurt.
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Huevos 4/23/2017 9:41am
4/23/2017 9:41am
I remember Dungey matching Roczens speed by round 2... Dungey hasn't been able to match Tomac's speed since Phoenix.
kijen
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kijen 4/23/2017 9:45am
4/23/2017 9:45am
MX Guy wrote:
I think the answer is in the question. Kenny tried to do what Eli is doing right now... didn't work for him.
Ummm....was it not to long ago that Tomac destroyed both shoulders? Fast riders crash and get hurt, period.

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TheOriginalPancakee 4/23/2017 9:46am
4/23/2017 9:46am
I think Kenny and Tomac would still be dominating. Dungey would be a 3/4th place guy with Marvin beating him occasionally
DP#201
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DP#201 4/23/2017 9:52am
4/23/2017 9:52am
Huevos wrote:
I remember Dungey matching Roczens speed by round 2... Dungey hasn't been able to match Tomac's speed since Phoenix.
Wierd logic! So you are saying that Kroc would have have got slower and slower over the next rounds, as ET would get faster?
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Huevos 4/23/2017 10:03am
4/23/2017 10:03am
Huevos wrote:
I remember Dungey matching Roczens speed by round 2... Dungey hasn't been able to match Tomac's speed since Phoenix.
DP#201 wrote:
Wierd logic! So you are saying that Kroc would have have got slower and slower over the next rounds, as ET would get faster?
I'm saying that I think Tomac would be blowing Roczen's doors off just as he has been doing to Dungey. I don't think Dungey has gotten slower as the year has gone on, Tomac has simply turned into a demigod.
jorgechavez 4/23/2017 10:12am
4/23/2017 10:12am
I don't know if Tomac would be leading if Roczen was still out there just due to his first horrible rounds, but I don't think Roczen would have much for Tomac now. Kenny was better than everyone else when the season began but Eli has gotten even better and that's damn impressive.
UpTiTe 4/23/2017 10:14am
4/23/2017 10:14am
Roczen would win the title
Crush
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Crush 4/23/2017 10:16am
4/23/2017 10:16am
Who the feck knows.

If Eli got the starts he has the last half the year, it'd be hard to overcome for anyone.
Mr. Knobby 4/23/2017 10:21am
4/23/2017 10:21am
darkbelow13 wrote:
I'll just say that I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomac became a completely different rider after Roczen got hurt.
Before the season started I said it was going to be Tomac and Roczen top two in speed, then Dungey, Marvin and the rest of the pack. If Roczen hadn't of gotten hurt, he would be battling it out with Tomac.
Tomac's climb to the top had nothing to do with Roczen getting hurt. If you paid attention and listened to what Tomac was saying, it was just a matter of getting things all lined up, with the bike and with himself. Tomac has simply returned to the type of rider he was before he broke both shoulders in a wicked bad crash. It takes time to come back from something like that. The people that were handing the title to Dungey (threads are easy to find) simply didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
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ATKpilot99 4/23/2017 11:10am
4/23/2017 11:10am
I think Roczen would have taken a couple wins from him but honestly I haven't seen anyone go this fast in SX since James in his prime.
TheOriginalPancakee 4/23/2017 11:19am
4/23/2017 11:19am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I think Roczen would have taken a couple wins from him but honestly I haven't seen anyone go this fast in SX since James in his...
I think Roczen would have taken a couple wins from him but honestly I haven't seen anyone go this fast in SX since James in his prime.
I agree. Tomac has some insane raw speed right now and he's doing it all race long. Dungeys fastest lap came in lap 2 tomacs in lap 14.
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Park Boys 4/23/2017 11:23am
4/23/2017 11:23am
I think we forget pretty easy. From the last 5 or 6 rounds of SX in 2016 Roczen was the dominate rider till his crash A2. Us fans are getting screwed, they have had an epic riveirly brewing for years that realistically could have have been all time, They fight fire with fire. The only think we know now is that with Ken gone and Dungey with one foot out the door Eli is gonna smoke everyone for awhile barring an injury. No one currently racing has what Tomac has, this MX season could get ugly fast.
darkbelow13 4/23/2017 11:25am
4/23/2017 11:25am
darkbelow13 wrote:
I'll just say that I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomac became a completely different rider after Roczen got hurt.
Mr. Knobby wrote:
Before the season started I said it was going to be Tomac and Roczen top two in speed, then Dungey, Marvin and the rest of the...
Before the season started I said it was going to be Tomac and Roczen top two in speed, then Dungey, Marvin and the rest of the pack. If Roczen hadn't of gotten hurt, he would be battling it out with Tomac.
Tomac's climb to the top had nothing to do with Roczen getting hurt. If you paid attention and listened to what Tomac was saying, it was just a matter of getting things all lined up, with the bike and with himself. Tomac has simply returned to the type of rider he was before he broke both shoulders in a wicked bad crash. It takes time to come back from something like that. The people that were handing the title to Dungey (threads are easy to find) simply didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
I don't disagree with you when you say that Tomac "needed to get things all lined up, with the bike and with himself." My assertion is just that the "getting things lined up with himself" part was helped largely by the guy who had been dominating him getting injured for the foreseeable future. That's just my opinion; however, it's a fact that in races where Roczen lined up in the gate, Tomac had an average finish of 6.3. In races where Roczen didn't line up, he's had an average finish of 2.5 and that's including the anomaly in Arlington where he finished 15th due in large part to a mechanical failure. Maybe I'm totally wrong and Tomac would have gone on the same tear regardless of what happened to Roczen, but I'm inclined to think otherwise.
Mr. Knobby 4/23/2017 1:08pm
4/23/2017 1:08pm
darkbelow13 wrote:
I'll just say that I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomac became a completely different rider after Roczen got hurt.
Mr. Knobby wrote:
Before the season started I said it was going to be Tomac and Roczen top two in speed, then Dungey, Marvin and the rest of the...
Before the season started I said it was going to be Tomac and Roczen top two in speed, then Dungey, Marvin and the rest of the pack. If Roczen hadn't of gotten hurt, he would be battling it out with Tomac.
Tomac's climb to the top had nothing to do with Roczen getting hurt. If you paid attention and listened to what Tomac was saying, it was just a matter of getting things all lined up, with the bike and with himself. Tomac has simply returned to the type of rider he was before he broke both shoulders in a wicked bad crash. It takes time to come back from something like that. The people that were handing the title to Dungey (threads are easy to find) simply didn't have a clue what they were talking about.
darkbelow13 wrote:
I don't disagree with you when you say that Tomac "needed to get things all lined up, with the bike and with himself." My assertion is...
I don't disagree with you when you say that Tomac "needed to get things all lined up, with the bike and with himself." My assertion is just that the "getting things lined up with himself" part was helped largely by the guy who had been dominating him getting injured for the foreseeable future. That's just my opinion; however, it's a fact that in races where Roczen lined up in the gate, Tomac had an average finish of 6.3. In races where Roczen didn't line up, he's had an average finish of 2.5 and that's including the anomaly in Arlington where he finished 15th due in large part to a mechanical failure. Maybe I'm totally wrong and Tomac would have gone on the same tear regardless of what happened to Roczen, but I'm inclined to think otherwise.
I would put forward that it was just a coincidence that Tomac figured out his arm pump / tight riding / fighting with the bike issues around the same time that Roczen unfortunately crashed out. Not arguing, just two valid points of view. If Roczen can come back and reach the same level he was at early in this season, perhaps we can see them battle it out one day. I think they both love racing, race clean, and would have epic battles.
JRT812
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JRT812 4/23/2017 1:11pm
4/23/2017 1:11pm
My guess is Kenny. Dude had the Honda looking amazing in the beginning while Eli was still finding his own. It would have been a heck of a fight between the two.
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kaptkaos 4/23/2017 1:21pm
4/23/2017 1:21pm
This aint over yet guys...its 3 measly points with 2 to go. All it takes is one mistake by Eli...he is riding at a level that very few have ever sustained over as many races as he has and he is due for a mechanical, or a mistake. Sure, he may win out, but its not over yet, and Dungey has won a few titles by being mistake free.

Right now Eli is not changing anything bc it has been working for 12 races, and Dungey is betting on his consistency and speed to be in position if the mistake happens.

I think they are both doing the right thing, Dungey has had an awesome career and several titles doing his thing, and Eli is on fire and has the title within grasp.

Its going to be awesome the next two weeks, lets just sit back and enjoy this non-chase season!

As far as outdoors, the bikes really play into it, and RD trains in Florida in the brutal heat. Lets hope for a great outdoor battle. I like both of these guys, and since neither of them rides a Honda, I just want to see a good race!

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jock
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jock 4/23/2017 1:30pm
4/23/2017 1:30pm
My money would have been on Kenny. Dominated the Outdoors, switched bikes and started winning from his first race. With more time and testing on the bike, I doubt anyone would have consistently beat him.
crusty_xx 4/23/2017 1:54pm
4/23/2017 1:54pm
Park Boys wrote:
I think we forget pretty easy. From the last 5 or 6 rounds of SX in 2016 Roczen was the dominate rider till his crash A2...
I think we forget pretty easy. From the last 5 or 6 rounds of SX in 2016 Roczen was the dominate rider till his crash A2. Us fans are getting screwed, they have had an epic riveirly brewing for years that realistically could have have been all time, They fight fire with fire. The only think we know now is that with Ken gone and Dungey with one foot out the door Eli is gonna smoke everyone for awhile barring an injury. No one currently racing has what Tomac has, this MX season could get ugly fast.
yep
Obviously we won't know when, how and if Kenny is coming back, but as long as he's out no one is coming near Tomac.
Maybe in 2018 or 19 we can count on riders like Webb to get up there. Maybe Musquin in SX
darkbelow13 4/23/2017 2:32pm
4/23/2017 2:32pm
Mr. Knobby wrote:
I would put forward that it was just a coincidence that Tomac figured out his arm pump / tight riding / fighting with the bike issues...
I would put forward that it was just a coincidence that Tomac figured out his arm pump / tight riding / fighting with the bike issues around the same time that Roczen unfortunately crashed out. Not arguing, just two valid points of view. If Roczen can come back and reach the same level he was at early in this season, perhaps we can see them battle it out one day. I think they both love racing, race clean, and would have epic battles.
Yeah, definitely. If Kenny can get back to where he was we are all in for some great battles.
Forty
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Forty 4/23/2017 3:10pm
4/23/2017 3:10pm
Kenny would have won..he was dialed, much like Eli is now,and would have only become better.
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kiwifan 4/23/2017 3:19pm
4/23/2017 3:19pm
Very difficult to guess how Roczen would go against Eli with his current speed...but I think Kenny would be winning, I (personally) think Kenny gets in Eli's head. In any case it would of been great to watch them race each other.
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Phantom 661 4/23/2017 3:56pm
4/23/2017 3:56pm
I see Tomac moving forward lately Like no one else. I think he would have an edge on Kenny if he was able. I saw Tomac come from close to last to first in his 250 days passing Kenny along the way and it was awesome to watch. Now he's done the same in the 450 class and he's lethal atm.

Go Dungey!
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agn5009 4/23/2017 4:05pm
4/23/2017 4:05pm
Huevos wrote:
I remember Dungey matching Roczens speed by round 2... Dungey hasn't been able to match Tomac's speed since Phoenix.
DP#201 wrote:
Wierd logic! So you are saying that Kroc would have have got slower and slower over the next rounds, as ET would get faster?
Huevos wrote:
I'm saying that I think Tomac would be blowing Roczen's doors off just as he has been doing to Dungey. I don't think Dungey has gotten...
I'm saying that I think Tomac would be blowing Roczen's doors off just as he has been doing to Dungey. I don't think Dungey has gotten slower as the year has gone on, Tomac has simply turned into a demigod.
This. For some odd reason, some people think that Roczen "dominated" the first couple rounds. He dominated round one, had a close battle with Dungey in round two and was being beat by Dungey in round three when he crashed out.

Tomac is on another level. No one, including Roczen, could match what Tomac is doing right now.
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bvm111 4/23/2017 4:30pm
4/23/2017 4:30pm
I am just curious what they changed on Tomacs KX450 to make him more comfortable, suspension, chassis, engine? Combo of all three? Did his shoulders finally heal? Am I the only geek thats wants to know, why all the secrecy?
C_Hart3
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C_Hart3 4/23/2017 4:32pm
4/23/2017 4:32pm
kaptkaos wrote:
This aint over yet guys...its 3 measly points with 2 to go. All it takes is one mistake by Eli...he is riding at a level that...
This aint over yet guys...its 3 measly points with 2 to go. All it takes is one mistake by Eli...he is riding at a level that very few have ever sustained over as many races as he has and he is due for a mechanical, or a mistake. Sure, he may win out, but its not over yet, and Dungey has won a few titles by being mistake free.

Right now Eli is not changing anything bc it has been working for 12 races, and Dungey is betting on his consistency and speed to be in position if the mistake happens.

I think they are both doing the right thing, Dungey has had an awesome career and several titles doing his thing, and Eli is on fire and has the title within grasp.

Its going to be awesome the next two weeks, lets just sit back and enjoy this non-chase season!

As far as outdoors, the bikes really play into it, and RD trains in Florida in the brutal heat. Lets hope for a great outdoor battle. I like both of these guys, and since neither of them rides a Honda, I just want to see a good race!
So Eli's bad start yesterday and his crash in Seattle didn't count as mistakes? He's still due for one? I think Eli is becoming the new Mr consistency, just like Ryan. Both riders are amazing. They have also both had their share of mishaps this season. I'm looking forward to seeing them battle it out the next two races, and hopefully without any huge mistakes or mechanical for either one of them.
Forty
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Forty 4/23/2017 4:45pm
4/23/2017 4:45pm
bvm111 wrote:
I am just curious what they changed on Tomacs KX450 to make him more comfortable, suspension, chassis, engine? Combo of all three? Did his shoulders finally...
I am just curious what they changed on Tomacs KX450 to make him more comfortable, suspension, chassis, engine? Combo of all three? Did his shoulders finally heal? Am I the only geek thats wants to know, why all the secrecy?
All you had to do is ask on Vital.

"Beast mode". It's right next to "Traction control mode" on his handle bars.

KTM, Honda, and the rest haven't developed it yet but it will come stock on the 2018 KX 450.

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bsharkey 4/23/2017 6:16pm
4/23/2017 6:16pm
MX Guy wrote:
I think the answer is in the question. Kenny tried to do what Eli is doing right now... didn't work for him.
Tomas pretty much been Wreckers or Checkers either I don't think that's a fair comparison. Roczen had a solid outdoor season last summer 2
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bsharkey 4/23/2017 6:17pm
4/23/2017 6:17pm
I honestly think if both of them we're healthy we would see a rivalry like Villopoto and Townley it would be that Epic

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