Adderall

GuyB wrote:

Hey, he's a know-it-all, and he's on a roll...

Matt414 wrote:

Reminds me why I don't post here all that often anymore.

APLMAN99 wrote:

Matt, that's just premix junky/mortgagepaul under one of his many aliases. He's got a whole lot of Rich Cain in him....... You racing any of our...

Matt, that's just premix junky/mortgagepaul under one of his many aliases. He's got a whole lot of Rich Cain in him.......

You racing any of our tiny little hills up here this year?

APLMAN99 wrote:

We don't know, because that isn't what he was penalized for. There is no mention of the level in the documents, only that it was present...

We don't know, because that isn't what he was penalized for. There is no mention of the level in the documents, only that it was present. Anything stating that he was overusing and now underperforms because he is using a "normal" dosage is far more speculative......

TXDirt wrote:

We will just agree to disagree. I think it's far more speculative to assume he was using "normal" quantities. I think part of this can be...

We will just agree to disagree. I think it's far more speculative to assume he was using "normal" quantities. I think part of this can be attributed to his failure to secure a TUE to begin with. So he failed to get a TUE but we will just have to assume he was using exactly and only the medically prescribed amount. Mind you this is a drug that is abused in sports competitions by high level athletes. But certainly the so called "fastest man on the planet" would not do that. He only takes the exact prescribed amount. No more. No less. This is the same James Stewart that was arrested for impersonating a police officer in Florida. So we will just assume that he has no problem doing that, but when it comes to his Aderall medicine, no way no how, would he ever abuse that. Straight and narrow only when it comes to Adderall.

APLMAN99 wrote:

There's no evidence of him taking a higher dosage than prescribed, so to assume that is about as speculative as it gets. Adderall (and similar stimulants)...

There's no evidence of him taking a higher dosage than prescribed, so to assume that is about as speculative as it gets.

Adderall (and similar stimulants) operate on somewhat of a "bell curve" of effectiveness. Everyone's curve is different, but past a certain dosage the positive effects decrease, not increase, and it also increases the potential for adverse health issues. It isn't a case of "25mg gives me focus, so I'll take 50mg and have even sharper focus!" A medical doctor that you are actually working with will try to find that "equilibrium" dosage where you get the maximum positive result and anything more would probably have a negative effect.

Obviously you're hung up on Stewart's character and believe that his stupid act with the police lights make him guilty of anything that could be imagined. That's your right, of course, but it doesn't really allow for rational thinking about the Adderall issue.

The decision on the appeal was posted earlier in the thread. It's pretty straight forward, and shows exactly what he was penalized for. It also talks about MXSports' reasoning for allowing him to continue to compete, etc.

It's pretty clear that Stewart and his reps were far too casual when signing things like the competition licenses. To be honest, we all likely do similar things all the time when it comes to signing documents. I certainly can't say that I've read every line of everything I've signed over the years, and based on the "AMA" policy at the time, he wouldn't have even needed a TUE (that's according to the CAS document itself). Unfortunately for him, he didn't pay attention to the details enough to understand how seriously different that the FIM/WADA policy was from the AMA policy. The difference is even noted specifically for clarity in the appeal ruling.

Stewart got the punishment he deserved for not following the policy he signed an acknowledgment for. That's definitely on him. But there is zero evidence that he committed any illegal acts concerning his Adderall use, nor that he used any dosages that he wasn't prescribed.

SlS257 wrote:

Only reason he got suspended was because he did not have a note before taking it. WADA and USADA are really strick about that. It's not...

Only reason he got suspended was because he did not have a note before taking it. WADA and USADA are really strick about that. It's not illegal to take if you inform them before you take it and it's prescribed, Wich is easy to get now. It's not performance inhancing per say. If you need it, it helps you focus. If you don't it can tweak you out and make it hard to relax. I took it when I was younger and it helped a lot. As I got older it made things worse. That said it's not illegal as an armature. It's not illegal as a pro. You just need a note before you take it.

APLMAN99 wrote:

jeffro, Stewart wasn't penalized because of the level of drug in his system, only that it WAS in his system. It wasn't because he was over...

jeffro, Stewart wasn't penalized because of the level of drug in his system, only that it WAS in his system. It wasn't because he was over some arbitrary "therapeutic" level.

Mr. G wrote:

In a nutshell ADHD was invented by committee. Don't believe it? Ask the APA. No medical tests whatsoever, just "theories" based on nothing but tainted observation...

In a nutshell ADHD was invented by committee. Don't believe it? Ask the APA. No medical tests whatsoever, just "theories" based on nothing but tainted observation. But here is the thing, many people really like it. Just look at this thread, plenty of people that report it helps. Perhaps it's utter lacking in any scientific protocol is just not relevant. Not trying to be argumentative just summarizing.

Matt414 wrote:

Reminds me why I don't post here all that often anymore.

jeffro503 wrote:

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't...

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't know. I just commented on his performance before and after. Before he got caught with it , he was riding really , really good! Since he's come back , his concentration seems to be lacking a lot compared to before. He gained a bunch of weight , doesn't train and he wrecked out of like 7 of the 8 races he entered into when he came back.

This is what I was trying to explain. There is a totally different James out there now , compared to the James of mid 2014 and earlier.

I will say this though.....it's such a common drug that athlete's like to use , and in this sport , if helps guys concentrate...I wish they would just make it legal for everyone ( as in take it off the list ). I look at it as a safety measure really. And with James.....whatever he was doing before the ban , I wish he could use that and ride like the way he was. He was safer on the track not only for himself , but other's. It's also a reason why I don't put 100% of the blame on James , as I think he needs it. I think it should be a level playing field and make it available and legal for all the riders if it helps them finish a race safely.

jeffro503 wrote:

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't...

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't know. I just commented on his performance before and after. Before he got caught with it , he was riding really , really good! Since he's come back , his concentration seems to be lacking a lot compared to before. He gained a bunch of weight , doesn't train and he wrecked out of like 7 of the 8 races he entered into when he came back.

This is what I was trying to explain. There is a totally different James out there now , compared to the James of mid 2014 and earlier.

I will say this though.....it's such a common drug that athlete's like to use , and in this sport , if helps guys concentrate...I wish they would just make it legal for everyone ( as in take it off the list ). I look at it as a safety measure really. And with James.....whatever he was doing before the ban , I wish he could use that and ride like the way he was. He was safer on the track not only for himself , but other's. It's also a reason why I don't put 100% of the blame on James , as I think he needs it. I think it should be a level playing field and make it available and legal for all the riders if it helps them finish a race safely.

GuyB wrote:

You mean the James thst isn't racing? Yes, that's different.

Matt414 wrote:

Really? You can get a TUE for anything? How long have you been in the out of comp testing pool? How many times have you applied...

Really? You can get a TUE for anything? How long have you been in the out of comp testing pool? How many times have you applied for a TUE, do you know the process? How would I go about getting one for testosterone, what about for IGF1?

Skidaddle wrote:

In a short time if you can afford it, you could test to have less test in your blood than a 6 year old girl on...

In a short time if you can afford it, you could test to have less test in your blood than a 6 year old girl on a legit blood panel.
Does that answer your question on how to get a TUE?

A TUE for IGF could be gotten with a creative doc I suppose. Afterall, plenty of non diabetics use mass amounts of insulin so there is that also. Insulin is banned just the same. But if a doc says you're diabetic....

Plus There is only 1 real brand of IGF1 that ai know of. And it's expensive as fuck. Anyrhing else is UGL or totally bunk or underdosed or could be something else entirely. Nobody knows unless you test your stuff..

And IGF for the most part isn't worth the sides vs cost vs effective dose for performance use. IGF is debatable if its even worth taking. Insulin on the other hand but its crazy dangerous if you arent careful.

Kinda Sounds like you're looking for a source. You can find that on your own.

Matt414 wrote:

One of us has been in the testing pool longer than any athlete in sx/mx. And I know which one it is. And source? My point...

One of us has been in the testing pool longer than any athlete in sx/mx. And I know which one it is.

And source? My point is you have zero idea what you're talking about.

jeffro503 wrote:

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't...

Yeah I don't know the level he was taking , nor do I know what he's taking now. Or even if he is taking it....I don't know. I just commented on his performance before and after. Before he got caught with it , he was riding really , really good! Since he's come back , his concentration seems to be lacking a lot compared to before. He gained a bunch of weight , doesn't train and he wrecked out of like 7 of the 8 races he entered into when he came back.

This is what I was trying to explain. There is a totally different James out there now , compared to the James of mid 2014 and earlier.

I will say this though.....it's such a common drug that athlete's like to use , and in this sport , if helps guys concentrate...I wish they would just make it legal for everyone ( as in take it off the list ). I look at it as a safety measure really. And with James.....whatever he was doing before the ban , I wish he could use that and ride like the way he was. He was safer on the track not only for himself , but other's. It's also a reason why I don't put 100% of the blame on James , as I think he needs it. I think it should be a level playing field and make it available and legal for all the riders if it helps them finish a race safely.

GuyB wrote:

You mean the James thst isn't racing? Yes, that's different.

jeffro503 wrote:

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the...

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the past 6 months , but the first 6 - 8 months after he came back.

Skidaddle wrote:

Frankly I don't care because testing for anything is BS. Only mistakes get people caught no matter what they are on. I can get a doctor...

Frankly I don't care because testing for anything is BS. Only mistakes get people caught no matter what they are on.

I can get a doctor to give the required paperwork to go through the system. I know plenty that have, and have TUEs currently for quite a few different compounds.

I also know how to be able to get you or anyone else can show you're an eligible candidate. Its very easy to do because athletes in 100 different sports all do it.
Surely including yours as well. Well, it's cycling.

IMHO, TUEs are bullshit and the only ones that say they aren't probably have them under false pretenses because many openly do! They brag about it and post open protocols of what they are using which is far far over a "Therapeutic dose"

You still sound like you're looking for a source with a post like that.

Skidaddle wrote:

Frankly I don't care because testing for anything is BS. Only mistakes get people caught no matter what they are on. I can get a doctor...

Frankly I don't care because testing for anything is BS. Only mistakes get people caught no matter what they are on.

I can get a doctor to give the required paperwork to go through the system. I know plenty that have, and have TUEs currently for quite a few different compounds.

I also know how to be able to get you or anyone else can show you're an eligible candidate. Its very easy to do because athletes in 100 different sports all do it.
Surely including yours as well. Well, it's cycling.

IMHO, TUEs are bullshit and the only ones that say they aren't probably have them under false pretenses because many openly do! They brag about it and post open protocols of what they are using which is far far over a "Therapeutic dose"

You still sound like you're looking for a source with a post like that.

GuyB wrote:

I got a TUE for a prescription of Onelesstrol. Congratulations, I decided to use it on you.

jeffro503 wrote:

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the...

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the past 6 months , but the first 6 - 8 months after he came back.

SlS257 wrote:

Only reason he got suspended was because he did not have a note before taking it. WADA and USADA are really strick about that. It's not...

Only reason he got suspended was because he did not have a note before taking it. WADA and USADA are really strick about that. It's not illegal to take if you inform them before you take it and it's prescribed, Wich is easy to get now. It's not performance inhancing per say. If you need it, it helps you focus. If you don't it can tweak you out and make it hard to relax. I took it when I was younger and it helped a lot. As I got older it made things worse. That said it's not illegal as an armature. It's not illegal as a pro. You just need a note before you take it.

TXDirt wrote:

The TUE's get a bit of scurtiny. Not sure if the same level is given in our sport. The TUE requests go before a committee that...

The TUE's get a bit of scurtiny. Not sure if the same level is given in our sport. The TUE requests go before a committee that usually has multiple doctors on it. This is to verify the request and to review the prescribed amounts being administered. You don't just show up with a dr's note and get your TUE. And just because you have a TUE doesn't mean you can pop all the Adderall you want.

TXDirt wrote:

We will just agree to disagree. I think it's far more speculative to assume he was using "normal" quantities. I think part of this can be...

We will just agree to disagree. I think it's far more speculative to assume he was using "normal" quantities. I think part of this can be attributed to his failure to secure a TUE to begin with. So he failed to get a TUE but we will just have to assume he was using exactly and only the medically prescribed amount. Mind you this is a drug that is abused in sports competitions by high level athletes. But certainly the so called "fastest man on the planet" would not do that. He only takes the exact prescribed amount. No more. No less. This is the same James Stewart that was arrested for impersonating a police officer in Florida. So we will just assume that he has no problem doing that, but when it comes to his Aderall medicine, no way no how, would he ever abuse that. Straight and narrow only when it comes to Adderall.

APLMAN99 wrote:

There's no evidence of him taking a higher dosage than prescribed, so to assume that is about as speculative as it gets. Adderall (and similar stimulants)...

There's no evidence of him taking a higher dosage than prescribed, so to assume that is about as speculative as it gets.

Adderall (and similar stimulants) operate on somewhat of a "bell curve" of effectiveness. Everyone's curve is different, but past a certain dosage the positive effects decrease, not increase, and it also increases the potential for adverse health issues. It isn't a case of "25mg gives me focus, so I'll take 50mg and have even sharper focus!" A medical doctor that you are actually working with will try to find that "equilibrium" dosage where you get the maximum positive result and anything more would probably have a negative effect.

Obviously you're hung up on Stewart's character and believe that his stupid act with the police lights make him guilty of anything that could be imagined. That's your right, of course, but it doesn't really allow for rational thinking about the Adderall issue.

The decision on the appeal was posted earlier in the thread. It's pretty straight forward, and shows exactly what he was penalized for. It also talks about MXSports' reasoning for allowing him to continue to compete, etc.

It's pretty clear that Stewart and his reps were far too casual when signing things like the competition licenses. To be honest, we all likely do similar things all the time when it comes to signing documents. I certainly can't say that I've read every line of everything I've signed over the years, and based on the "AMA" policy at the time, he wouldn't have even needed a TUE (that's according to the CAS document itself). Unfortunately for him, he didn't pay attention to the details enough to understand how seriously different that the FIM/WADA policy was from the AMA policy. The difference is even noted specifically for clarity in the appeal ruling.

Stewart got the punishment he deserved for not following the policy he signed an acknowledgment for. That's definitely on him. But there is zero evidence that he committed any illegal acts concerning his Adderall use, nor that he used any dosages that he wasn't prescribed.

TXDirt wrote:

Not disagreeing with you except on two things. 1. Character matters and can be used to judge how someone might react in a situation. It's not...

Not disagreeing with you except on two things.

1. Character matters and can be used to judge how someone might react in a situation. It's not iron clad by any means but certainly can be used.

2. Yes the medicine follows a bell curve. I agree. But taking it to get you back to normal puts you maybe half way up the curve. Take some extra before a race and you can be right at the top of the curve. Thus gaining an advantage. You don't take a little extra and all of a sudden you are on the down side of the bell curve.

Good discussion and appreciate keeping it civil.

jeffro503 wrote:

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the...

I was really referring to the James post ban , with the overseas races , few SX races and trying the nationals. Not so much the past 6 months , but the first 6 - 8 months after he came back.

GuyB wrote:

He won the first race back (Straight Rhythm), then got hurt at the Energy Cup, Lille, and A1. I'm guessing the A1 crash did more damage...

He won the first race back (Straight Rhythm), then got hurt at the Energy Cup, Lille, and A1. I'm guessing the A1 crash did more damage than anyone outside his camp knows. He wasn't fit during SX, and the outdoors last summer was not a good look...but I get the impression his heart hasn't been in it for the outdoors in a while.

GuyB wrote:

He won the first race back (Straight Rhythm), then got hurt at the Energy Cup, Lille, and A1. I'm guessing the A1 crash did more damage...

He won the first race back (Straight Rhythm), then got hurt at the Energy Cup, Lille, and A1. I'm guessing the A1 crash did more damage than anyone outside his camp knows. He wasn't fit during SX, and the outdoors last summer was not a good look...but I get the impression his heart hasn't been in it for the outdoors in a while.

TripleFive wrote:

Didn't you push the story that James' weight was strategic, to help him last a full series?

Matt414 wrote:

Really? You can get a TUE for anything? How long have you been in the out of comp testing pool? How many times have you applied...

Really? You can get a TUE for anything? How long have you been in the out of comp testing pool? How many times have you applied for a TUE, do you know the process? How would I go about getting one for testosterone, what about for IGF1?

GuyB wrote:

Hey, he's a know-it-all, and he's on a roll...

Matt414 wrote:

Reminds me why I don't post here all that often anymore.

jeffro503 wrote:

Some people do say that , and I disagree. As myself have gone through all the ADHD stuff as far back as I can remember. I...

Some people do say that , and I disagree. As myself have gone through all the ADHD stuff as far back as I can remember. I used many medication for it when I was younger , and hated the way they made me feel. Slowed me down enough to make me feel I was running in molasses. Sick to my stomach and just felt weird. My brain was all there , but I didn't have the energy levels I was used to. I hated taking them....so I stopped.

If people don't think it's real....take someone who says that , have them slam a pot of coffee and be able to take a nap a 1/2 hour later. Because I can. I have to watch how much coffee I drink , because it will literally make me want to lie down.

As far as James goes.....I'm 100% behind him on taking the correct dosage if he needs it. If he has it ( ADHD ) it would slow him down.....not speed him up.

jeffro503 wrote:

Some people do say that , and I disagree. As myself have gone through all the ADHD stuff as far back as I can remember. I...

Some people do say that , and I disagree. As myself have gone through all the ADHD stuff as far back as I can remember. I used many medication for it when I was younger , and hated the way they made me feel. Slowed me down enough to make me feel I was running in molasses. Sick to my stomach and just felt weird. My brain was all there , but I didn't have the energy levels I was used to. I hated taking them....so I stopped.

If people don't think it's real....take someone who says that , have them slam a pot of coffee and be able to take a nap a 1/2 hour later. Because I can. I have to watch how much coffee I drink , because it will literally make me want to lie down.

As far as James goes.....I'm 100% behind him on taking the correct dosage if he needs it. If he has it ( ADHD ) it would slow him down.....not speed him up.

davistld01 wrote:

James said, in an interview I read years ago, that when he took Adderall the track came at him in slow motion. That's how he was...

James said, in an interview I read years ago, that when he took Adderall the track came at him in slow motion. That's how he was able to "see" lines and jump possibilities that nobody else seemed to. If he didn't take it...the track rushed at him faster than he could handle it because of the ADHD. That, in my opinion, is why he crashed so frequently after he got busted and came back. He was so used to the dosage he was used to taking, that even cutting it back to the prescribed physician dosage barely effected him at all. I doubt seriously that his washing the front end in that corner where Dungey ended up hitting his head with his front tire would ever have happened had he been taking his "usual" dosage.

Chris_Buehler wrote:

So Dungey running into him and fucking him up wouldn't have happened if he was on Adderall?  What? Maybe he crashed so frequently because he was...

So Dungey running into him and fucking him up wouldn't have happened if he was on Adderall?  What? Maybe he crashed so frequently because he was banned for a year and a half and most likely didn't ride much at all. I might be totally pulling that out of my ass. But that's pretty much what you're doing with everything you said