Do Top Pros have room to be faster?

Sixeightone
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Sixeightone
Well, we all just finished watching Terrafirma 94. Really makes you want to go riding for sure! If you watched the behind the scenes video of Roczen talking about how precise and on the gas you need to be to clear some of the sections, it makes you wonder how much faster they could be if they spent more time training on a two stroke, or an underpowered machine. Something similar to adding a weight onto your baseball bat.

The top pros these days all came up on 4 strokes. Would not having an engine brake and being underpowered train them to make better line choices? Could they be taking seconds off their lap times by adding more skill and not relying on the power of the bike? I know Dean Wilson is occasionally seen riding a two stroke and claims that's a great way to train. But what if...

BTW that video really makes you appreciate Mcgrath, and all the O.G's of the sport who paved the way on two strokes!
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Frodad78
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Frodad78 1/12/2017 6:53am
1/12/2017 6:53am
I'm gonna say Yes. Its harder to go fast on a smoker. Carrying momentum and line choice are critical, skills that any MX racer would be happy to improve upon.
early
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early 1/12/2017 6:59am
1/12/2017 6:59am
Ken also said he wouldnt qualify on the cr.

Would love to see 22 of them on the line.

Would love to see KR do a comparison between the cr250 and the crf250 to show how good 4 strokes are today.

Guess im still dreaming
Rowlands
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Rowlands 1/12/2017 7:01am
1/12/2017 7:01am
What you have to remeber is that is not only a 2 stroke but also it is 20 years out dated it's super old technology. So of course it's going to be more difficult to ride. If he was to ride a modern 2 stroke the difference wouldn't be so big. Personally I think he gains more from putting more hours in on his current bike. You must remember how attached to there bike these guys are they have them set up exactly how they like them. Long and short of it If the teams and riders thought it would advantage them they would already be doing it.
Berm
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Berm 1/12/2017 7:01am
1/12/2017 7:01am
It's probably more likely Ken can get hurt on the cr250 than a 450, and preventing that is worth FAR more than a few tenths of a second.

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rcannon
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rcannon 1/12/2017 7:42am
1/12/2017 7:42am
Rowlands wrote:
What you have to remeber is that is not only a 2 stroke but also it is 20 years out dated it's super old technology. So...
What you have to remeber is that is not only a 2 stroke but also it is 20 years out dated it's super old technology. So of course it's going to be more difficult to ride. If he was to ride a modern 2 stroke the difference wouldn't be so big. Personally I think he gains more from putting more hours in on his current bike. You must remember how attached to there bike these guys are they have them set up exactly how they like them. Long and short of it If the teams and riders thought it would advantage them they would already be doing it.
Thats interesting that you said that.

If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250.

Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology change than their would be between something like a 2009 yzf 450 and a 2010 yzf 450.

I believe this is why this is not a fair fight. Even though the ktm has been updated, its not as if the two stroke technology has been moving forward since 1996 like the 4 stroke. It may have advanced a little, but very little. Nothing like it would have if it were the only option.


Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 1/12/2017 9:09am
1/12/2017 9:09am
Rowlands wrote:
What you have to remeber is that is not only a 2 stroke but also it is 20 years out dated it's super old technology. So...
What you have to remeber is that is not only a 2 stroke but also it is 20 years out dated it's super old technology. So of course it's going to be more difficult to ride. If he was to ride a modern 2 stroke the difference wouldn't be so big. Personally I think he gains more from putting more hours in on his current bike. You must remember how attached to there bike these guys are they have them set up exactly how they like them. Long and short of it If the teams and riders thought it would advantage them they would already be doing it.
rcannon wrote:
Thats interesting that you said that. If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250. Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology...
Thats interesting that you said that.

If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250.

Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology change than their would be between something like a 2009 yzf 450 and a 2010 yzf 450.

I believe this is why this is not a fair fight. Even though the ktm has been updated, its not as if the two stroke technology has been moving forward since 1996 like the 4 stroke. It may have advanced a little, but very little. Nothing like it would have if it were the only option.


The difference is huge. First off the ktms suspension is miles superior to the cr. The engine is also more powerful and probably more smoothed out for better control than the cr. Those alone make the ktm better. We arent even mentioning the frame or weight.
colorado2day
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colorado2day 1/12/2017 9:28am
1/12/2017 9:28am
What could a top pro do with a lighter than a 4stroke, 400 cc, power valved, e start, efi'd & always crisp 2 stroke with modern suspension ?


Rowlands
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Rowlands 1/12/2017 1:28pm
1/12/2017 1:28pm
rcannon wrote:
Thats interesting that you said that. If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250. Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology...
Thats interesting that you said that.

If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250.

Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology change than their would be between something like a 2009 yzf 450 and a 2010 yzf 450.

I believe this is why this is not a fair fight. Even though the ktm has been updated, its not as if the two stroke technology has been moving forward since 1996 like the 4 stroke. It may have advanced a little, but very little. Nothing like it would have if it were the only option.


Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all relevant. The 2017 ktm 250sx is a dream to ride the power is much more useable and there's more of it. Brakes as good as you get. Chasis is lightweight and geometry is amazing and the most noticeable thing is the lack of vibration the bike creates. 2 strokes used to be bone shakers not anymore. I respect your point though and see where your coming from
TannerMxer
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TannerMxer 1/12/2017 1:43pm
1/12/2017 1:43pm
Frodad78 wrote:
I'm gonna say Yes. Its harder to go fast on a smoker. Carrying momentum and line choice are critical, skills that any MX racer would be...
I'm gonna say Yes. Its harder to go fast on a smoker. Carrying momentum and line choice are critical, skills that any MX racer would be happy to improve upon.
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing otherwise. If 4-strokes never came around, Stew would have probably won everything until at least 2012. No one was ever CLOSE is speed or capability on a track, ever, until the 4-strokes came around.


#threadhighjacked
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/12/2017 1:48pm
1/12/2017 1:48pm
Always
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Totally
Harambe
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Harambe 1/12/2017 2:21pm
1/12/2017 2:21pm
Yea bro, would probably help if he went out and practiced on a ttr125... Slower, harder to jump stuff

Tongue
TenDollarHead 1/12/2017 2:22pm
1/12/2017 2:22pm
Oh yeah, as the technology gets better and better, the top riders will always find a little more speed.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 1/12/2017 2:23pm
1/12/2017 2:23pm
Every single one of my friends that started on small bikes ended up being faster than those that started on more powerful machines.
Adam43
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Adam43 1/12/2017 2:24pm
1/12/2017 2:24pm
TannerMxer wrote:
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing...
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing otherwise. If 4-strokes never came around, Stew would have probably won everything until at least 2012. No one was ever CLOSE is speed or capability on a track, ever, until the 4-strokes came around.


#threadhighjacked
This is revisionist drivel.

Stewart wasn't head and shoulders better on the KX250 than everyone, it was fairly close week-to-week in supercross.

Once he switched to the KX450 he was close to unstoppable, speedwise, from '06-'08.

Reed is a better argument for your case.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 1/12/2017 2:26pm
1/12/2017 2:26pm
Frodad78 wrote:
I'm gonna say Yes. Its harder to go fast on a smoker. Carrying momentum and line choice are critical, skills that any MX racer would be...
I'm gonna say Yes. Its harder to go fast on a smoker. Carrying momentum and line choice are critical, skills that any MX racer would be happy to improve upon.
TannerMxer wrote:
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing...
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing otherwise. If 4-strokes never came around, Stew would have probably won everything until at least 2012. No one was ever CLOSE is speed or capability on a track, ever, until the 4-strokes came around.


#threadhighjacked
So true. Look what happened when he turned Pro. He cleaned everyone's clock. There wasn't any "Getting up to speed", he was already there. Those races are worth watching for anyone that hasn't seen them. His goal at the time was to win every moto by one minute. It was fun.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 1/12/2017 2:29pm
1/12/2017 2:29pm
TannerMxer wrote:
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing...
All reasons why JS7 would end up not becoming the greatest SX and MX rider of all time. I believe people are delusional if they thing otherwise. If 4-strokes never came around, Stew would have probably won everything until at least 2012. No one was ever CLOSE is speed or capability on a track, ever, until the 4-strokes came around.


#threadhighjacked
Adam43 wrote:
This is revisionist drivel. Stewart wasn't head and shoulders better on the KX250 than everyone, it was fairly close week-to-week in supercross. Once he switched to...
This is revisionist drivel.

Stewart wasn't head and shoulders better on the KX250 than everyone, it was fairly close week-to-week in supercross.

Once he switched to the KX450 he was close to unstoppable, speedwise, from '06-'08.

Reed is a better argument for your case.
He may be referring to the 125/250 class. It's true that he had trouble with RC until James got a 450. Sure he still had trouble but much less. I bet that two stroke was worked over to only make power on top.

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KMC440
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KMC440 1/12/2017 3:27pm
1/12/2017 3:27pm
Gnar = shred ... shred = Gnar

inverse relationship...

what was the question ?
kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 1/12/2017 5:21pm
1/12/2017 5:21pm
You guys must be smarter than Team Managers, Race Engineers, trainers and riders.

kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/12/2017 5:24pm
1/12/2017 5:24pm
Definitely
Sheriff245 1/12/2017 5:52pm
1/12/2017 5:52pm
rcannon wrote:
Thats interesting that you said that. If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250. Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology...
Thats interesting that you said that.

If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250.

Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology change than their would be between something like a 2009 yzf 450 and a 2010 yzf 450.

I believe this is why this is not a fair fight. Even though the ktm has been updated, its not as if the two stroke technology has been moving forward since 1996 like the 4 stroke. It may have advanced a little, but very little. Nothing like it would have if it were the only option.


Rowlands wrote:
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all...
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all relevant. The 2017 ktm 250sx is a dream to ride the power is much more useable and there's more of it. Brakes as good as you get. Chasis is lightweight and geometry is amazing and the most noticeable thing is the lack of vibration the bike creates. 2 strokes used to be bone shakers not anymore. I respect your point though and see where your coming from
Did you ride MC's 95 works bike to compare it to the 2017 KTM?
kzizok
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kzizok 1/12/2017 6:35pm
1/12/2017 6:35pm
TeamGreen wrote:
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Be closing
Mx286
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Mx286 1/12/2017 7:08pm
1/12/2017 7:08pm
Lol so let me get this straight.. practice on a 2 stroke, and race the 4 stroke? Come on man..

I actually like Harambe's idea of the TTR.
brimx153
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brimx153 1/12/2017 8:30pm
1/12/2017 8:30pm
well outdoors there going slower than a guy did in 06 imo . ie RC on his 06 bike would win races
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kkawboy14 1/12/2017 9:03pm
1/12/2017 9:03pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2017 9:05pm
brimx153 wrote:
well outdoors there going slower than a guy did in 06 imo . ie RC on his 06 bike would win races
You might be right but man the tracks now seem rougher and with deeper ruts compared to back in the day. It's hard to go fast in a continuous rut lined track.

But they do go BIG nowadays
BobPA
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BobPA 1/12/2017 10:00pm
1/12/2017 10:00pm
rcannon wrote:
Thats interesting that you said that. If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250. Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology...
Thats interesting that you said that.

If you were to park Mc's cr250 next to a 2017 KTM 250.

Comparing those two bikes, theres less technology change than their would be between something like a 2009 yzf 450 and a 2010 yzf 450.

I believe this is why this is not a fair fight. Even though the ktm has been updated, its not as if the two stroke technology has been moving forward since 1996 like the 4 stroke. It may have advanced a little, but very little. Nothing like it would have if it were the only option.


Rowlands wrote:
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all...
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all relevant. The 2017 ktm 250sx is a dream to ride the power is much more useable and there's more of it. Brakes as good as you get. Chasis is lightweight and geometry is amazing and the most noticeable thing is the lack of vibration the bike creates. 2 strokes used to be bone shakers not anymore. I respect your point though and see where your coming from
Sheriff245 wrote:
Did you ride MC's 95 works bike to compare it to the 2017 KTM?
Did you?
Rowlands
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Rowlands 1/13/2017 3:49am
1/13/2017 3:49am
Rowlands wrote:
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all...
Have you rode 2017 2 stroke ? Believe me they have come along way. Yes perhaps not as far as the 4 stroke but it's all relevant. The 2017 ktm 250sx is a dream to ride the power is much more useable and there's more of it. Brakes as good as you get. Chasis is lightweight and geometry is amazing and the most noticeable thing is the lack of vibration the bike creates. 2 strokes used to be bone shakers not anymore. I respect your point though and see where your coming from
Sheriff245 wrote:
Did you ride MC's 95 works bike to compare it to the 2017 KTM?
BobPA wrote:
Did you?
No. But I did listen to the comments Ken made about the bike in the behind the scenes video. Come on man you can't compare a 20 year old bike with a spanker.

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