Deano - No ride?

beamer wrote:

Stock Suzuki which absolutely dominated the 2016 nationals.

KTMShane699 wrote:

You're kidding, right?

The Suzuki that won the nationals was far from stock. It was a fully supported factory bike.

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

GuyB wrote:

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and...

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and effort to do it on their own. You may not like it, but that's what they've told me.

beamer wrote:

Stock Suzuki which absolutely dominated the 2016 nationals.

KTMShane699 wrote:

You're kidding, right?

The Suzuki that won the nationals was far from stock. It was a fully supported factory bike.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of...

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of the factory. Unfortunetely these days factory bikes arent what they were many many years ago, If you want to see fully built works bikes you might want to see what the Japanese are racing moto with...completely different bikes from what we are using.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of...

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of the factory. Unfortunetely these days factory bikes arent what they were many many years ago, If you want to see fully built works bikes you might want to see what the Japanese are racing moto with...completely different bikes from what we are using.

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

GuyB wrote:

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and...

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and effort to do it on their own. You may not like it, but that's what they've told me.

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

GuyB wrote:

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and...

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and effort to do it on their own. You may not like it, but that's what they've told me.

Titan1 wrote:

No, I can accept-and even respect-that. Like I said earlier my disconnect with their mentality is probably because is a job to them and a hobby...

No, I can accept-and even respect-that. Like I said earlier my disconnect with their mentality is probably because is a job to them and a hobby to me.

Titan1 wrote:

You don't think 22 Motorsport's was a success? Reed couldn't come to terms with a team...so he told them to stick it, did his own thing...

You don't think 22 Motorsport's was a success? Reed couldn't come to terms with a team...so he told them to stick it, did his own thing (very successfully) and NOW has a factory ride.

What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his career? We'll never know...but he built his brand by putting something together and racing...that larger brand certainly makes him more valuable.

Like I said...I pay thousands of dollars a yeah to participate in this sport...so I don't understand why someone that could do it for free (thought I'm sure a guy like Wilson is still getting checks from gear sponsors, etc.-and that looks like a RedBull helmet in the video...those come with a check too) wouldn't just make it happen...that mentality is so foreign to me (but so is the speed they ride, so I'm not sure why that surprises me...lol).

Anyway...I could be wrong (probably am) so I hope you read this with the same intent that I wrote it (not defensive...not argumentative...just a honest question with no malice).

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

wilbur48 wrote:

Because even if we get some stuff free at some point money is still coming out of pocket, medical. Mortgage. Truck? Gas? Tough to dump your...

Because even if we get some stuff free at some point money is still coming out of pocket, medical. Mortgage. Truck? Gas? Tough to dump your hard earned money back in for no purse .. I'm not saying it's impossible either, but you still have to put dinner on the table...

hvaughn88 wrote:

Wil, can you give us some kind of insight as to the cost if a rider races the SX series on his own dime as a...

Wil, can you give us some kind of insight as to the cost if a rider races the SX series on his own dime as a privateer. I'm asking because I have no idea. I'm sure it all adds up quick (bike, mechanic, travel, entry fee, fuel, etc.)

ToolMaker wrote:

"What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his...

"What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his career? We'll never know...but he built his brand by putting something together and racing...that larger brand certainly makes him more valuable."

The couch route seems to have worked for Josh Grant

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of...

it was basically a stock rmz, some of the obvious changes are made, fact is most of these bikes now can be raced straight out of the factory. Unfortunetely these days factory bikes arent what they were many many years ago, If you want to see fully built works bikes you might want to see what the Japanese are racing moto with...completely different bikes from what we are using.

KTMShane699 wrote:

I'm thinking you don't know quite what goes into factory bikes at the US level. I'll openly admit that the Japanese bikes are true "works" bikes...

I'm thinking you don't know quite what goes into factory bikes at the US level. I'll openly admit that the Japanese bikes are true "works" bikes. But to say the factory bikes in the US is "basically stock" is quite a stretch. Different motor internals, different suspensions, unobtainable parts not sold to the public, different compound tires, linkages with different rising rates, electronics technicians who simply deal with the programming of the bike and ignition curves. There's no way that the bike Roczen rode is close to a stock RMZ.

hvaughn88 wrote:

Wil, can you give us some kind of insight as to the cost if a rider races the SX series on his own dime as a...

Wil, can you give us some kind of insight as to the cost if a rider races the SX series on his own dime as a privateer. I'm asking because I have no idea. I'm sure it all adds up quick (bike, mechanic, travel, entry fee, fuel, etc.)

haydos25 wrote:

You gotta be talking in the hundreds of thousand dollar range at least to do it properly. Take into account practice bikes, mechanics, entries, insurance, travel...

You gotta be talking in the hundreds of thousand dollar range at least to do it properly. Take into account practice bikes, mechanics, entries, insurance, travel etc. Bearing in mind that comes straight out of hard earned savings. These guys aren't up and comers, they've paid there dues and deserve to be compensated. If that doesn't happen then I don't begrudge them sitting it out.

Could they throw a mostly stock bike in a truck and hit up a few? Sure, but if a rider of deano or wils calibre does that then the results will show it and so will the bank account

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

wilbur48 wrote:

Because even if we get some stuff free at some point money is still coming out of pocket, medical. Mortgage. Truck? Gas? Tough to dump your...

Because even if we get some stuff free at some point money is still coming out of pocket, medical. Mortgage. Truck? Gas? Tough to dump your hard earned money back in for no purse .. I'm not saying it's impossible either, but you still have to put dinner on the table...

Titan1 wrote:

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable. Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a...

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable.

Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a rider with similar potential with a similar size brand-be able to get paid from a gear/boot/goggle company (I though I heard someone-Matthes, or someone on his show, maybe?-mention that top guys get paid for gear, boot and goggle sponsorships above team salary and bonuses) even if he's on a privateer bike? Or do those checks go away for a guy like him if he's not on a factory team?

wilbur48 wrote:

With saying that I hope deano lands in a good spot

Tpog496 wrote:

Lol, I don't remember Josh on the couch at Daytona last year.

Tpog496 wrote:

Lol, I don't remember Josh on the couch at Daytona last year.

Titan1 wrote:

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable. Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a...

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable.

Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a rider with similar potential with a similar size brand-be able to get paid from a gear/boot/goggle company (I though I heard someone-Matthes, or someone on his show, maybe?-mention that top guys get paid for gear, boot and goggle sponsorships above team salary and bonuses) even if he's on a privateer bike? Or do those checks go away for a guy like him if he's not on a factory team?

tek14 wrote:

You should have Vitalmx graphic kit and couple different bikes.. would be great to see photos Stewarts, Deano, Bogle and others practicing under Vitalmx offseason team...

You should have Vitalmx graphic kit and couple different bikes.. would be great to see photos Stewarts, Deano, Bogle and others practicing under Vitalmx offseason team :D

Titan1 wrote:

You don't think 22 Motorsport's was a success? Reed couldn't come to terms with a team...so he told them to stick it, did his own thing...

You don't think 22 Motorsport's was a success? Reed couldn't come to terms with a team...so he told them to stick it, did his own thing (very successfully) and NOW has a factory ride.

What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his career? We'll never know...but he built his brand by putting something together and racing...that larger brand certainly makes him more valuable.

Like I said...I pay thousands of dollars a yeah to participate in this sport...so I don't understand why someone that could do it for free (thought I'm sure a guy like Wilson is still getting checks from gear sponsors, etc.-and that looks like a RedBull helmet in the video...those come with a check too) wouldn't just make it happen...that mentality is so foreign to me (but so is the speed they ride, so I'm not sure why that surprises me...lol).

Anyway...I could be wrong (probably am) so I hope you read this with the same intent that I wrote it (not defensive...not argumentative...just a honest question with no malice).

Tpog496 wrote:

Lol, I don't remember Josh on the couch at Daytona last year.

ML512 wrote:

Josh had already received his fill-in offer from Kawasaki before he showed up at Daytona.

ToolMaker wrote:

"What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his...

"What if he'd of stayed on the couch...or waited for a replacement ride....does that path lead to a factory Yamaha ride in the twilight of his career? We'll never know...but he built his brand by putting something together and racing...that larger brand certainly makes him more valuable."

The couch route seems to have worked for Josh Grant

USMCMXer wrote:

Except for the minor detail of showing up to Daytona, qualifying directly out of his heat race and then getting 7th in the main. "You can...

Except for the minor detail of showing up to Daytona, qualifying directly out of his heat race and then getting 7th in the main. "You can work with speed". The team managers all agree on this.

beamer wrote:

Stock Suzuki which absolutely dominated the 2016 nationals.

KTMShane699 wrote:

You're kidding, right?

The Suzuki that won the nationals was far from stock. It was a fully supported factory bike.

Titan1 wrote:

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give...

I really don't get the pro rider mentality...they've got enough fans and a big enough name that they could get most every parts/gear company to give them free stuff...and if a factory won't give them a bike, surely almost any dealership would give them a bike or two for free (even if they had to give them back at the end of the season)...take the free bikes...take the free parts...take the free motor work...take the free suspension tuning...find some company to pay your entries and transportation....and go race! And even if it's not free...buy it all and go race.

I know local pros who do basically the same thing and pay very little for their racing program...surely a top pro could put it together IF they really wanted to race.

Look what Reed did four or five years ago because he WANTED to race...he made it happen.

Why do pro riders feel like if they they don't have a team giving them a bike, and a semi, and a suspension guy and a motor guy and all the support they can't race? It makes no sense...

It's not ideal...I get that...

Maybe they don't love the sport...maybe it is just a Job to them...and if they can't get a salary and bonuses they don't do it (I wouldn't work for free...and if it is just a job to them I wouldn't expect them to)...and maybe that is my disconnect? To me it's a hobby, and one I pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to participate in...and to them it's a job. Who knows...

(Spoken from a non-pro, non-industry perspective...so I'm well aware that it's meaningless and probably wrong.)

GuyB wrote:

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and...

I've talked to a few pros about this, and they've all told me it's not worth it to them to lay out the time, money and effort to do it on their own. You may not like it, but that's what they've told me.

Titan1 wrote:

No, I can accept-and even respect-that. Like I said earlier my disconnect with their mentality is probably because is a job to them and a hobby...

No, I can accept-and even respect-that. Like I said earlier my disconnect with their mentality is probably because is a job to them and a hobby to me.

USMCMXer wrote:

Except for the minor detail of showing up to Daytona, qualifying directly out of his heat race and then getting 7th in the main. "You can...

Except for the minor detail of showing up to Daytona, qualifying directly out of his heat race and then getting 7th in the main. "You can work with speed". The team managers all agree on this.

ToolMaker wrote:

OK, but what do you think he was doing prior to that? I may have it mixed up, but I seem to remember an on camera...

OK, but what do you think he was doing prior to that? I may have it mixed up, but I seem to remember an
on camera interview where he said (literally) he was at home watching SX with his family on the couch.
Nobody else remember that?

Titan1 wrote:

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable. Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a...

Fair enough....It's your money, you've got to look at what kind of return you will get on it...Respectable.

Honest question: Would a guy like Wilson-or a rider with similar potential with a similar size brand-be able to get paid from a gear/boot/goggle company (I though I heard someone-Matthes, or someone on his show, maybe?-mention that top guys get paid for gear, boot and goggle sponsorships above team salary and bonuses) even if he's on a privateer bike? Or do those checks go away for a guy like him if he's not on a factory team?

ML512 wrote:

The worth of the gear, helmet, goggle and boot deals go down if you're not on a top-level team... You get quite a bit less to...

The worth of the gear, helmet, goggle and boot deals go down if you're not on a top-level team... You get quite a bit less to be on your own.

Someone in Dean's case doesn't dare sign gear deals right now, in case he has to go to a team where the gear deals are a part of the team contract.