Imagine the NFL without

10/21/2016 8:56am
olds cool wrote:
Imagine winning 12-14 races and not winning a championship...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through. If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season. This new type of format will make no difference for riders that are consistent all year such as Dungey. If you ride well all year, you'll win. This whole thing will make it interesting because a guy that has a rough start to the season can still fight back toward the end, and possibly get the title instead of just giving up on the season and starting to ride outdoors. I think this will be a great thing for the fans, as well as the riders! I'm 100% for a playoff or chase format!
IWreckALot
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10/21/2016 8:59am
TripleFive wrote:
Imagine a SX season that's not boring by round 10.
IWreckALot wrote:
SX will be boring UNTIL round 10 with the proposed change. A chase format isn't going to take a 10th place rider and make them finish...
SX will be boring UNTIL round 10 with the proposed change.

A chase format isn't going to take a 10th place rider and make them finish in first. Hell, it's not going to let a rider in 3rd place catch first unless first gets injured.
TripleFive wrote:
Because the guys wont care about winning until the Chase. Right.
You think they care about winning at the later rounds currently when someone has a huge lead? They won't go balls out at A1, they'll go balls out later in the year with the "chase". All it does is shift the importance of the races around; doesn't really gain anything.
Prntscrn
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10/21/2016 9:02am Edited Date/Time 10/21/2016 9:06am
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through. If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season. This new type of format will make no difference for riders that are consistent all year such as Dungey. If you ride well all year, you'll win. This whole thing will make it interesting because a guy that has a rough start to the season can still fight back toward the end, and possibly get the title instead of just giving up on the season and starting to ride outdoors. I think this will be a great thing for the fans, as well as the riders! I'm 100% for a playoff or chase format!
Playoffs make the regular season a total snoozefest. Look at NHL for example. Doesnt really matter how you perform during the regular season, months of "serielunk" as we say in Sweden Wink Then a month or two it get exciting. No, fuck the chase format!
SCR
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10/21/2016 9:13am
Imagine when the teams and riders start pulling out of the Nationals because 20 rounds of SX has put half the top riders on the injury list and the other half are to beat up and tired, and between the sponsors, riders, mechanics,etc they all agree it's too much and doesn't pay off.


And when it's time to send our best to the MXDN we won't have a competitive team because our guys come only know how to ride arena cross and SX. Imagine that.



The Shop

philG
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10/21/2016 9:21am
When you are selling product , a rigged championship format is not your friend.

Road Racing in the UK has BSB which is a great series , gone to a chase format, last 6 races count i think, because i just stopped watching.. not seen any of it this year , despite it being on live every round..

If you have to make excitement, the job is already lost IMO
MXNoob#43
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10/21/2016 9:21am
Imagine the NFL without playoffs and the Superbowl. The Carolina Panthers would have been champs, there would not have been the Superbowl upset by Denver and...
Imagine the NFL without playoffs and the Superbowl.

The Carolina Panthers would have been champs, there would not have been the Superbowl upset by Denver and Peyton Manning going out on top.

NBA without playoffs, no Cleveland - Lebron James story.

Baseball without the World Series
Hockey without the Stanley Cup (Steve M)

Imagine Supercross with a chase (playoffs) that results in a Chad Reed or a James Stewart upsetting Roczen/Tomac/Dungey.

It could be epic
Huge difference in team sports -vs- individual sports. Team sports should have playoffs, Individual sports not so.
Falcon
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10/21/2016 9:52am
Imagine if the NFL team that won the most throughout the season was automatically the champion? Sounds good to me.

Park Boys
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10/21/2016 9:55am
TripleFive wrote:
Because the guys wont care about winning until the Chase. Right.
It will certainly change how they race, wins would not have the same importance before the chase rounds.
cmarona463
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10/21/2016 11:28am
JM485 wrote:
Here's my good argument, this isn't football nor to I ever want it to be anything like football, baseball, or even Nascar. There's a reason I...
Here's my good argument, this isn't football nor to I ever want it to be anything like football, baseball, or even Nascar. There's a reason I ride and watch dirtbikes and not any of the others, I don't know why everyone wants to make this sport "mainstream" because mainstream stuff generally sucks. You're taking away the integrity of a championship by putting more weight on later rounds. To be honest, I've only been to races in earlier parts of the season so I'd be a little pissed off if the race I was watching had almost no effect on the final points standings. Not to mention it's a total slap in the face to consistent guys like Dungey who have earned their championships by being there week in and week out.
cmarona463 wrote:
What about people that are only able to go to the later races in the season? How easy would it be to convince you to buy...
What about people that are only able to go to the later races in the season? How easy would it be to convince you to buy tickets to a race when the championship has already been wrapped up?
IWreckALot wrote:
Are you arguing to say that the importance is ripped out of the first rounds to be applied to the latter rounds? Sounds like you're just...
Are you arguing to say that the importance is ripped out of the first rounds to be applied to the latter rounds? Sounds like you're just shifting the shit from one end of the spectrum to another. That's a net neutral proposition.
As the series is now, when we have a Jeremy McGrath, Ryan Villopoto, Ryan Dungey, where one rider consistently bests the competition, you have a general decrease entertainment value across the course of the season. A1 is always exciting. Then as the series progresses, one rider begins to extend the points lead, and then eventually as the season wears on, we have a situation where we're counting points until the weekend that the rider clinches the championship. This has happened multiple times in the past decade.

If the series had a chase style system, A1 would still be exciting. Then throughout the series, even if one rider is consistently dominating, you have riders each week that are racing forward in an attempt to race themselves into the chase field. Once the chase starts, in those final weeks you have riders consistently competing for the championship week in and week out.

The action is spread out between both ends of the season, rather than starting high and tapering off consistently.
zehn
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10/21/2016 12:22pm
Comparing a team sport where one team wins and one team loses to an individual racing sport with points striation etc. is the dumbest shit I've ever read.
rrjr
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10/21/2016 12:54pm
What they need to do to keep the excitement up and avoid a runaway points lead is some kind of a handicap.
Something like make the podium finishers from the previous week start backwards in the gate. That would even things up a little.

And adding a 120ft jump over a tank with a killer whale in it might liven things up. They could get Sea World to sponsor it. It could be called the Sea World Supercross Jump of Death. Or the SWSJD for short.

Could you imagine the commercials. They could show Weston Peick crashing into the tank and punching Shamu in the back of the head.
JustMX
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10/21/2016 1:26pm
If you want to steal an idea from NASCAR please let it be something that is similar to restrictor plates.

How about instead of intake put some kind of restriction on the exhaust.

Quite the damn things while making it a much more level playing field, especially for the few privateers that are left out there.

The 450s are way too much for the indoor tracks. Slow them down and fundamentals like corner speed will separate the field.

What difference is the chase going to make except for artificially forcing a points race to go to the last round.

Speaking of points, how about restructuring the points payout table.

Then give points for heat race wins. This would make it possible to invert the field for the mains.

Riders would have to decide if they want first gate pick and just finish in a qualifying position or win the heat and have to come through the field.

Hell if that wont be considered how about letting there be a set number of races where the field is inverted. Get 20 envelopes with a description of the gate pick criteria.

Mix them and then draw them and put the round number on them.

Open that envelope while the lcqs are running and announce the findings.

"attention race fans, as a special feature of tonight's main events, the gate pick order will be reversed. The rider finishing in the final transfer spot in the consolation race will have first pick on the gate"
USA
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Fantasy
10/21/2016 1:38pm
Imagine a world as perfect as Kate Upton's breasts.
rrjr
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10/21/2016 1:43pm
JustMX wrote:
If you want to steal an idea from NASCAR please let it be something that is similar to restrictor plates. How about instead of intake put...
If you want to steal an idea from NASCAR please let it be something that is similar to restrictor plates.

How about instead of intake put some kind of restriction on the exhaust.

Quite the damn things while making it a much more level playing field, especially for the few privateers that are left out there.

The 450s are way too much for the indoor tracks. Slow them down and fundamentals like corner speed will separate the field.

What difference is the chase going to make except for artificially forcing a points race to go to the last round.

Speaking of points, how about restructuring the points payout table.

Then give points for heat race wins. This would make it possible to invert the field for the mains.

Riders would have to decide if they want first gate pick and just finish in a qualifying position or win the heat and have to come through the field.

Hell if that wont be considered how about letting there be a set number of races where the field is inverted. Get 20 envelopes with a description of the gate pick criteria.

Mix them and then draw them and put the round number on them.

Open that envelope while the lcqs are running and announce the findings.

"attention race fans, as a special feature of tonight's main events, the gate pick order will be reversed. The rider finishing in the final transfer spot in the consolation race will have first pick on the gate"
They've already tried the inverted start thing. It didn't go so well.

JW381
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10/21/2016 2:00pm
Imagine the NFL without playoffs and the Superbowl. The Carolina Panthers would have been champs, there would not have been the Superbowl upset by Denver and...
Imagine the NFL without playoffs and the Superbowl.

The Carolina Panthers would have been champs, there would not have been the Superbowl upset by Denver and Peyton Manning going out on top.

NBA without playoffs, no Cleveland - Lebron James story.

Baseball without the World Series
Hockey without the Stanley Cup (Steve M)

Imagine Supercross with a chase (playoffs) that results in a Chad Reed or a James Stewart upsetting Roczen/Tomac/Dungey.

It could be epic
I like the way you think. The 2016 NBA finals were top notch.
olds cool
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10/21/2016 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2016 2:35pm
olds cool wrote:
Imagine winning 12-14 races and not winning a championship...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through. If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season. This new type of format will make no difference for riders that are consistent all year such as Dungey. If you ride well all year, you'll win. This whole thing will make it interesting because a guy that has a rough start to the season can still fight back toward the end, and possibly get the title instead of just giving up on the season and starting to ride outdoors. I think this will be a great thing for the fans, as well as the riders! I'm 100% for a playoff or chase format!
Please don't remind me about the Panthers. I live 45 min from downtown Charlotte. The only thing that has prevented me from committing Hari-kiri this season is the fact that I am old enough to have grown up without the Panthers and subsequently grew up a Vikings fan but I have a feeling they will find a way to choke before this season is over with.Dry

As far as the Chase dealio goes, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Playoffs obviously work for the team and stick and ball sports but I'm not a fan of it in motorsports, especially something as individual oriented as SX/MX. Not really as big a fan of NASCAR as I was when I was younger and I think the Chase deal factors into that. I believe a racing series champion should be the person who performs the best for the duration of the ENTIRE series. But that's just me and I'm a nobody with an antiquated outlook/opinion. The PTB are going to do whatever they want to do regardless of what I think, so be it. I'll still watch but I'm not going to get more excited about it. Anyhoo, carry on...
10/21/2016 2:46pm
..imagine if every team in the NFL played the other teams during the regular season both home and away to figure out who can beat who.
10/21/2016 4:16pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2016 4:19pm
JustMX wrote:
If you want to steal an idea from NASCAR please let it be something that is similar to restrictor plates. How about instead of intake put...
If you want to steal an idea from NASCAR please let it be something that is similar to restrictor plates.

How about instead of intake put some kind of restriction on the exhaust.

Quite the damn things while making it a much more level playing field, especially for the few privateers that are left out there.

The 450s are way too much for the indoor tracks. Slow them down and fundamentals like corner speed will separate the field.

What difference is the chase going to make except for artificially forcing a points race to go to the last round.

Speaking of points, how about restructuring the points payout table.

Then give points for heat race wins. This would make it possible to invert the field for the mains.

Riders would have to decide if they want first gate pick and just finish in a qualifying position or win the heat and have to come through the field.

Hell if that wont be considered how about letting there be a set number of races where the field is inverted. Get 20 envelopes with a description of the gate pick criteria.

Mix them and then draw them and put the round number on them.

Open that envelope while the lcqs are running and announce the findings.

"attention race fans, as a special feature of tonight's main events, the gate pick order will be reversed. The rider finishing in the final transfer spot in the consolation race will have first pick on the gate"
rrjr wrote:
They've already tried the inverted start thing. It didn't go so well.

Which is why he laid out the awarding points for Heat wins, and random envelope scenarios.

As you probably know, they already do the random gate scenario right now in Arenacross. They have three draws in the 2nd main: a normal 1st-finish gate, an inverted gate, and a middle-first gate. Of course, they run two rows, so gate spot is more critical.
JustMX
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10/21/2016 5:20pm
rrjr wrote:
They've already tried the inverted start thing. It didn't go so well.

I am familiar with that fiasco.

That is why heat race wins would pay points or the heat race winners would not know if they get first or last gate pick until after the heats.
Ted722
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10/21/2016 7:09pm
Imagine the Tour de France with....
olds cool
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10/21/2016 7:50pm
I can't imagine why nobody has said

Imagine all the people...Tongue
Johnny Depp
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10/21/2016 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/21/2016 8:29pm
Imagine 5 riders having a mathematical chance to win the series in the final race of the season...Or was it 4? or 3? It has happened a few times, and what points system created that?

Then remember what year it was?
rt987
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10/21/2016 8:44pm
I'll vote for a chase after dungey retires. With a chase you take away the main reason he's won titles - he's there every round. After he's gone lets make it a sissy series where everyone is a winner.
426Hemi
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10/22/2016 12:42am
Imagine if a rider laps down takes out a championship contender who was dominating the race.
Indy mxer
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10/22/2016 7:50am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2016 7:51am
olds cool wrote:
Imagine winning 12-14 races and not winning a championship...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through. If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season. This new type of format will make no difference for riders that are consistent all year such as Dungey. If you ride well all year, you'll win. This whole thing will make it interesting because a guy that has a rough start to the season can still fight back toward the end, and possibly get the title instead of just giving up on the season and starting to ride outdoors. I think this will be a great thing for the fans, as well as the riders! I'm 100% for a playoff or chase format!
I agree. Its worth a try imo.

I know it's not NASCAR but the chase creates excitement all year in that sport. Drivers race hard to try and get a spot in the chase. Then they race their asses off trying to stay in it to the end. As a NASCAR fan, I think it's a huge improvement form the old system.

I think the Nats need a little help too. Maybe not a chase but something. I went to the Ironman national again this year. And it was clear 90% of the 450 riders were mailing it in. Racing was poor and nobody was pushing it because it didn't matter. I thought the 450's were a snooze fest.
We were in the back corner by a 180 turn.
You could see most of the top 450 riders looking back just to make sure they stayed ahead of the guy behind them. As much as I love that place and its only 90 minutes from my house, I'm not sure I'm going back next year if the points battle is over.

Now, to be fair, A few of the 250 guys went balls out. But the were the exceptions.

BAMX
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10/22/2016 8:16am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2016 8:25am
olds cool wrote:
Imagine winning 12-14 races and not winning a championship...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to...
My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through. If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season. This new type of format will make no difference for riders that are consistent all year such as Dungey. If you ride well all year, you'll win. This whole thing will make it interesting because a guy that has a rough start to the season can still fight back toward the end, and possibly get the title instead of just giving up on the season and starting to ride outdoors. I think this will be a great thing for the fans, as well as the riders! I'm 100% for a playoff or chase format!
Your argument has so many logic errors.

1. "My favorite team, Carolina Panthers, won every game during the season except one, and then lost the championship. It doesn't matter how well you do to get there, you have to perform the whole way through"

They did preform all the way through the season. On average, no team was better. One bad day cost them the championship.

2. " If, for example, Roczen dominates the season before the "playoffs", but struggles during the end of the "playoffs" and looses the championship, that'll be his fault for not being there all season.

Once again, he is on average the best. He just had a bad few races. What if he caught the flu and had two bad races causing him to lose the championship? Year long points are there to erase the highs and lows.

3. "If you ride well all year, you'll win" No...In fact, if you limp along well enough to make the chase and ride well during the chase you could win.

IMO....philG is 100% right when he says "If you have to make excitement, the job is already lost"


PRM31
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10/22/2016 8:33am
Fundamental difference between team sports using a playoff and racing is the teams don't all play each other whereas racers race each other every race. A team can win all their games during the season without playing another great team. Then they have to play that team in the playoffs. Every racer will have their chance to race Roczen every week.
TDeath21
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10/22/2016 8:46am
Massive difference. In SX, every rider competes against every opponent in every race on a variety of different tracks during the entire 17 race season. That's by far the fairest way to crown a champion.
ATKpilot99
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10/22/2016 8:52am
philG wrote:
When you are selling product , a rigged championship format is not your friend. Road Racing in the UK has BSB which is a great series...
When you are selling product , a rigged championship format is not your friend.

Road Racing in the UK has BSB which is a great series , gone to a chase format, last 6 races count i think, because i just stopped watching.. not seen any of it this year , despite it being on live every round..

If you have to make excitement, the job is already lost IMO
If you have to make excitement, the job is already lost IMO


Absolutely.
Indy mxer
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10/22/2016 8:57am
PRM31 wrote:
Fundamental difference between team sports using a playoff and racing is the teams don't all play each other whereas racers race each other every race. A...
Fundamental difference between team sports using a playoff and racing is the teams don't all play each other whereas racers race each other every race. A team can win all their games during the season without playing another great team. Then they have to play that team in the playoffs. Every racer will have their chance to race Roczen every week.
Um, wrong! In MLB they play pretty much every team during the season and some teams a number of times.
Same with the NBA.

But that's not the discussion here. The problem, as many on here have stated, is that the racing gets boring towards the end of the year. Hell even golf has a playoff! Although I don't watch it.

A lot of us are simply saying, why not try something new? Like I said even the nats get boring towards the end of the season.

You could do some sort of playoff in mx and sx. Have a regular season champ and a playoff champ.
Or something. All I know is what we currently have could be better. Just fooling around with the points structure won't make much of a difference.

Sports evolve to get better. They have to or the become stale

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