Alta Motors Electric Dirt Bike Takes on Red Bull Straight Rhythm

Titan1
Posts
9438
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/7/2016 6:05am
If you don't support the advancement and eventual replacement of combustion with electric motors you are an archaic redneck. Do you like riding your dirt bike...
If you don't support the advancement and eventual replacement of combustion with electric motors you are an archaic redneck. Do you like riding your dirt bike or "hearing" it? I like the sound of a two stroke as much as the next guy, because I own one, but the possibilities are limitless with these, and it would better our sport forever.

There is nothing on the horizon for motocross and off road riding more promising of furthering larger involvement than a virtually silent motorcycle.
Markee wrote:
Tell me, what is archaic about combustion vs electric?
Using a non renewable energy source when the option for renewable clean energy exists is by definition, archaic. You lose.
Where do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries? At this point, 99% of it comes from non-renewable energy.

I'm all for electric bikes (so long as we don't have to take a step backwards in terms of performance, range, reliability, or price), but That argument isn't applicable.
10/7/2016 6:32am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2016 6:35am
Markee wrote:
Tell me, what is archaic about combustion vs electric?
Using a non renewable energy source when the option for renewable clean energy exists is by definition, archaic. You lose.
Titan1 wrote:
Where do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries? At this point, 99% of it comes from non-renewable energy. I'm all for electric...
Where do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries? At this point, 99% of it comes from non-renewable energy.

I'm all for electric bikes (so long as we don't have to take a step backwards in terms of performance, range, reliability, or price), but That argument isn't applicable.
You know also that electricity is only a non renewable source of energy right now because people's pockets are getting lined with oil money. There is enough solar energy and technology to completely replace it but people are having the same argument about clean energy that we are about our hobby of riding motorcycles.

Not to mention even with fossil fuel generated electricity the efficiency is inarguably far superior
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electr…
Titan1
Posts
9438
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/7/2016 7:34am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2016 8:24am
Using a non renewable energy source when the option for renewable clean energy exists is by definition, archaic. You lose.
Titan1 wrote:
Where do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries? At this point, 99% of it comes from non-renewable energy. I'm all for electric...
Where do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries? At this point, 99% of it comes from non-renewable energy.

I'm all for electric bikes (so long as we don't have to take a step backwards in terms of performance, range, reliability, or price), but That argument isn't applicable.
You know also that electricity is only a non renewable source of energy right now because people's pockets are getting lined with oil money. There is...
You know also that electricity is only a non renewable source of energy right now because people's pockets are getting lined with oil money. There is enough solar energy and technology to completely replace it but people are having the same argument about clean energy that we are about our hobby of riding motorcycles.

Not to mention even with fossil fuel generated electricity the efficiency is inarguably far superior
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electr…
Take your tin foil hat off...if solar was better that fossil fuels (more efficient, more affordable, etc. etc.) people would be lining their pockets with solar money.

Right now, today, solar isn't better...it's less efficient, and therefore more expensive than oil...that is why electricity still isn't renewable.

I have no bias towards fossil fuels...I don't care where our energy comes from....I just want it to be as cheap as possible. And right now, fossil fuels are the most efficient and therefore the cheapest.

Maybe one day Solar (or wind, or hydro, or nuclear, etc. etc....collectively or individually) will surpass fossil fuels in efficiency and affordability...and when that day comes, I'll absolutely support that energy source...but that day isn't today.

So for now, electric vehicles aren't powered by a renewable energy source.

(Never mind all the "non-renewables" in those all important batteries in electric cars)


(Sorry for the tangent, O.P.)
10/7/2016 8:23am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2016 8:24am
The people who are arguing that no one will go watch supercross if it's silent.... Football is silent. Millions of viewers. Basketball is silent. Millions of...
The people who are arguing that no one will go watch supercross if it's silent....

Football is silent. Millions of viewers. Basketball is silent. Millions of viewers.
Hockey, baseball the list goes on. It will be different, and I know how much you old turds fear change, but it will not hurt the sport.

Say 200,000 people are riding or racing in the US now and stadiums aren't being filled for supercross because there are only 500 places to ride a dirt bike so involvement is at an all time low per capita.

What if 400,000 people are riding and racing because there are 3000 places to ride? These numbers are arbitrary but relevant.
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my time to watch silent "racing" on bikes so easy to ride that even my granny can jump on it and tear glen helen? I will go and watch MotoGP. That's RACING.

Electric MX looks and sounds extremly pathetic, I will say it again: if it's not gonna be "cool" it won't bring new people to the sport thats how I see it. Rednecks won't buy it.They can build thousands of new tracks but who said there will be people who wants to ride? I think scooters are really fun to ride, so why skaters and bmx'ers are making fun of them instead of riding one? Because scooters are lame, no matter how fun they are no one treats them seriously.

But that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, time will show us.

And comparing motosports to football... I don't know what to say.

The Shop

Titan1
Posts
9438
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/7/2016 8:31am
Hey man, with electric bikes, "heckling" will be a thing in MX! Surely that will attract the football crowd, right?

I mean, you could tell Roczen that he sucks...and he'll actually hear you. It'll bring an entirely new element to MX...

Smile
SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
USA
10/7/2016 8:45am
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric motocross.
jj welks
Posts
712
Joined
5/14/2015
Location
USA
10/7/2016 8:50am
SCR wrote:
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric...
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric motocross.
there is no comparison to football and moto lol, please don't reproduce
SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
USA
10/7/2016 9:25am
SCR wrote:
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric...
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric motocross.
jj welks wrote:
there is no comparison to football and moto lol, please don't reproduce
I am responding to another post that compared the two. Maybe you should read and get familiar with the conversation before you post ?
jj welks
Posts
712
Joined
5/14/2015
Location
USA
10/7/2016 10:17am
My bad
lestat
Posts
1762
Joined
10/3/2008
Location
Piut, RE
10/7/2016 2:40pm
Titan1 wrote:
Hey man, with electric bikes, "heckling" will be a thing in MX! Surely that will attract the football crowd, right? I mean, you could tell Roczen...
Hey man, with electric bikes, "heckling" will be a thing in MX! Surely that will attract the football crowd, right?

I mean, you could tell Roczen that he sucks...and he'll actually hear you. It'll bring an entirely new element to MX...

Smile
Should help with the lapper problem too .

Cool
peelout
Posts
18386
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT, USA
10/7/2016 2:45pm
SCR wrote:
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric...
Change the rules in NFL football to no tackle flag football and see how many people show up. That might be a better comparison to electric motocross.
jj welks wrote:
there is no comparison to football and moto lol, please don't reproduce
looks like someone fell for the ol' banana in the tail pipe
Skidaddle
Posts
1707
Joined
7/19/2016
Location
Woodland, CA, USA
10/7/2016 2:47pm
Honda is behind this. Now you will have to buy a Honda generator to take to the track also!

See, you now have to buy a 4 stroke for your electric bike!
Skidaddle
Posts
1707
Joined
7/19/2016
Location
Woodland, CA, USA
10/7/2016 2:59pm
Skidaddle wrote:
Noise is NOT the problem. It's MONEY. If it were noise, Nascar and NHRA would be out of business. I know people who live right by...
Noise is NOT the problem. It's MONEY.
If it were noise, Nascar and NHRA would be out of business.

I know people who live right by Starwest. Wanna know what pisses them off? The 760 LI covered with dust.
People do not drive NASCAR or NHRA cars in their backyard or their buddies woods behind his house near a housing development, or in the hills...
People do not drive NASCAR or NHRA cars in their backyard or their buddies woods behind his house near a housing development, or in the hills or on the sides of mountains or etc etc etc

I have personally sat in city council meetings trying to get a private track legal for private practice only to be permanently shut down because of noise complaints. Not once, but twice.

You're input is nill.
You can break the windows of tract homes with a rock from Starwest.

Here, people can hear Moto GP, NHRA, Indy, Nascar, while in their homes.



gjbruny
Posts
559
Joined
1/14/2012
Location
Spokane, WA, USA
10/7/2016 5:30pm
Europedude wrote:
I think people here are way too naive and optimistic about electric bikes. I see them as an alternative but they will not take over, no...
I think people here are way too naive and optimistic about electric bikes. I see them as an alternative but they will not take over, no way. Until goverments force industry to do it, I don't see it coming any soon. There are so many factors. There are companies making parts, oils, fuels. Nationals are sponsored by Lucas Oil. Do you belive that they will sponsor the series with bikes that doesn't use oil? Do you belive Kawasaki will say: f**k you Mitch, we dont need your exhaust's anymore? Moving to electric motors is like saying "f*ck you" to whole motocross industry. Too much money involved.
that line of thinking is exactly how people felt about cell phones 20 years ago.... computers 30 years ago.

companies either adapt (start making parts that are in line with the current market), or they die. ever hear of supply and demand?
Johnny Depp
Posts
6435
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
10/7/2016 6:08pm
I kinda love the way this thread is going.

It started about Alta, but now it's like a 2 vs. 4 stroke thread. Fuel injection vs. carbs. Electric start vs. Kick.
stone881
Posts
856
Joined
12/26/2014
Location
Fruita, CO, USA
10/7/2016 9:16pm
Europedude wrote:
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my...
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my time to watch silent "racing" on bikes so easy to ride that even my granny can jump on it and tear glen helen? I will go and watch MotoGP. That's RACING.

Electric MX looks and sounds extremly pathetic, I will say it again: if it's not gonna be "cool" it won't bring new people to the sport thats how I see it. Rednecks won't buy it.They can build thousands of new tracks but who said there will be people who wants to ride? I think scooters are really fun to ride, so why skaters and bmx'ers are making fun of them instead of riding one? Because scooters are lame, no matter how fun they are no one treats them seriously.

But that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, time will show us.

And comparing motosports to football... I don't know what to say.
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got rid of standard transmissions along time ago and at the time purists thought it was bs. But guess what, it wasn't because the cars go around the track faster now.

Look I am not saying that I am against dinosaur burners, just that it is what it is. One of my favorite things to do is wrench on my MX bikes and that ain't gonna be necessary any more. But it also doesn't mean you can't ride what you want. You Polocks probably have more freedom than the Yanks any day. Shit ride over to Russia, they probably let you run without an exhaust pipe. Have 1 strokes, 2 strokes, 3 strokes, 4 strokes, nuclear and whatever else you want.

But out on the track you're gonna be getting waxed by some kid on an electric bike that is faster than anything you can come up with in your machine shop at home. It's a simple matter of efficiency and the ability to precisely manipulate the same.
SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
USA
10/7/2016 9:44pm
Europedude wrote:
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my...
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my time to watch silent "racing" on bikes so easy to ride that even my granny can jump on it and tear glen helen? I will go and watch MotoGP. That's RACING.

Electric MX looks and sounds extremly pathetic, I will say it again: if it's not gonna be "cool" it won't bring new people to the sport thats how I see it. Rednecks won't buy it.They can build thousands of new tracks but who said there will be people who wants to ride? I think scooters are really fun to ride, so why skaters and bmx'ers are making fun of them instead of riding one? Because scooters are lame, no matter how fun they are no one treats them seriously.

But that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, time will show us.

And comparing motosports to football... I don't know what to say.
stone881 wrote:
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got...
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got rid of standard transmissions along time ago and at the time purists thought it was bs. But guess what, it wasn't because the cars go around the track faster now.

Look I am not saying that I am against dinosaur burners, just that it is what it is. One of my favorite things to do is wrench on my MX bikes and that ain't gonna be necessary any more. But it also doesn't mean you can't ride what you want. You Polocks probably have more freedom than the Yanks any day. Shit ride over to Russia, they probably let you run without an exhaust pipe. Have 1 strokes, 2 strokes, 3 strokes, 4 strokes, nuclear and whatever else you want.

But out on the track you're gonna be getting waxed by some kid on an electric bike that is faster than anything you can come up with in your machine shop at home. It's a simple matter of efficiency and the ability to precisely manipulate the same.
I think 40hp 250s and 60hp 450 four strokes have made it clear that faster and more powerful bikes has not made racing better in any way in fact the opposite is probably true. And safety is a bigger concern than ever.
NV825
Posts
2175
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Carson City, NV, USA
10/7/2016 9:49pm
Another pro: when a team says it was an electrical issue that caused the rider to DNF, it would actually be true.
kzizok
Posts
8426
Joined
10/19/2010
Location
USA
10/8/2016 12:50am
stone881 wrote:
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got...
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got rid of standard transmissions along time ago and at the time purists thought it was bs. But guess what, it wasn't because the cars go around the track faster now.

Look I am not saying that I am against dinosaur burners, just that it is what it is. One of my favorite things to do is wrench on my MX bikes and that ain't gonna be necessary any more. But it also doesn't mean you can't ride what you want. You Polocks probably have more freedom than the Yanks any day. Shit ride over to Russia, they probably let you run without an exhaust pipe. Have 1 strokes, 2 strokes, 3 strokes, 4 strokes, nuclear and whatever else you want.

But out on the track you're gonna be getting waxed by some kid on an electric bike that is faster than anything you can come up with in your machine shop at home. It's a simple matter of efficiency and the ability to precisely manipulate the same.
Polish.
CoccoBill
Posts
342
Joined
12/31/2010
Location
IT
10/8/2016 1:59am
The people who are arguing that no one will go watch supercross if it's silent.... Football is silent. Millions of viewers. Basketball is silent. Millions of...
The people who are arguing that no one will go watch supercross if it's silent....

Football is silent. Millions of viewers. Basketball is silent. Millions of viewers.
Hockey, baseball the list goes on. It will be different, and I know how much you old turds fear change, but it will not hurt the sport.

Say 200,000 people are riding or racing in the US now and stadiums aren't being filled for supercross because there are only 500 places to ride a dirt bike so involvement is at an all time low per capita.

What if 400,000 people are riding and racing because there are 3000 places to ride? These numbers are arbitrary but relevant.
Europedude wrote:
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my...
With such a boring racing that we have for couple seasons I already watch it ONLY because I love the sound. Why would I waste my time to watch silent "racing" on bikes so easy to ride that even my granny can jump on it and tear glen helen? I will go and watch MotoGP. That's RACING.

Electric MX looks and sounds extremly pathetic, I will say it again: if it's not gonna be "cool" it won't bring new people to the sport thats how I see it. Rednecks won't buy it.They can build thousands of new tracks but who said there will be people who wants to ride? I think scooters are really fun to ride, so why skaters and bmx'ers are making fun of them instead of riding one? Because scooters are lame, no matter how fun they are no one treats them seriously.

But that's my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, time will show us.

And comparing motosports to football... I don't know what to say.
Easy fix for lack of noise, running this on every bike will be mandatory:

10/8/2016 4:49am Edited Date/Time 10/8/2016 4:50am
stone881 wrote:
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got...
Dude you still don't understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. So in theory the racing will be better. I mean look at F1, they got rid of standard transmissions along time ago and at the time purists thought it was bs. But guess what, it wasn't because the cars go around the track faster now.

Look I am not saying that I am against dinosaur burners, just that it is what it is. One of my favorite things to do is wrench on my MX bikes and that ain't gonna be necessary any more. But it also doesn't mean you can't ride what you want. You Polocks probably have more freedom than the Yanks any day. Shit ride over to Russia, they probably let you run without an exhaust pipe. Have 1 strokes, 2 strokes, 3 strokes, 4 strokes, nuclear and whatever else you want.

But out on the track you're gonna be getting waxed by some kid on an electric bike that is faster than anything you can come up with in your machine shop at home. It's a simple matter of efficiency and the ability to precisely manipulate the same.
I understand that electrics will be/are superior technology. I'm just sad that it will turn sport that I love into something that I hate. But yeah let's hope I will be able to rip 2 stroke till I die. That will be enough for me.

And about F1, check some videos from 2004 and compare it to "superior" technology that we have today. You can go even further and compare 2004 F1 with formula E. It will make you really sad about the future of motosports.


SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
USA
10/8/2016 2:46pm


Mom says " electric bikes are for boys that wear skinny jeans and sandals"

td730
Posts
10
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
Kalamazoo, MI, USA
10/8/2016 9:01pm
We can look forward to stank dogs kid riding a slow 4 stroke when E bikes take over.
#76
Posts
622
Joined
7/6/2012
Location
GB
10/9/2016 12:15am
Over my own racing life i have had two tracks shut down from noise, one in 1990 and then again in 1991.

Our own local track that is the only MX track in the whole of the U.K. to be open 7 days a week is under fire for noise, like it is every year....every year the owner attends court for the same people that complain about the noise....how long will the court keep giving him the green light?...

The Alta idea i think is awesome, no noise!, think about it.....would you rather ride quiet or not ride at all?, i know my choice.
VxeR
Posts
207
Joined
12/28/2015
Location
IT
10/9/2016 12:48am
I'm 100% sure that only a handful will buy the Alta as it is today, and that handful won't do shit for noise or for money for Alta to improve. And if the government/tracks make them mandatory, 95% of people will just quit. 15k is insane no matter how you look at it. Plus you can't customize it a lot and let's be honest it looks like ass.
imoto34
Posts
3781
Joined
1/28/2010
Location
USA
10/9/2016 1:26am
td730 wrote:
We can look forward to stank dogs kid riding a slow 4 stroke when E bikes take over.
Evil
KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT, USA
10/9/2016 3:21am
VxeR wrote:
I'm 100% sure that only a handful will buy the Alta as it is today, and that handful won't do shit for noise or for money...
I'm 100% sure that only a handful will buy the Alta as it is today, and that handful won't do shit for noise or for money for Alta to improve. And if the government/tracks make them mandatory, 95% of people will just quit. 15k is insane no matter how you look at it. Plus you can't customize it a lot and let's be honest it looks like ass.
The cost of battery technology is getting more affordable since they are well aware that's the biggest barrier to it being widely used. As battery prices fall, so will the bike price to make it competitive with the current offerings.

As far as aesthetics of the bike go, those will change. There has been a number of "ugly" bikes that have looked "like ass" over the years. Not to mention looks being a subjective thing.

As for customizing, most people can't handle what is out there. The electric bikes will potentially be even faster. Customizing won't be in the same manner we do it now with exhausts and things of that nature. Instead it'll be more motors possibly or ESC's and batteries. Pegs, bars, triple clamps, suspension, plastics and graphics all remain customizable. Locally, I see most bikes stock and a fair number even running stock pipes. So is customization really a barrier to entry?
10/9/2016 4:12am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2016 4:13am
The cost of battery technology is getting more affordable since they are well aware that's the biggest barrier to it being widely used. As battery prices...
The cost of battery technology is getting more affordable since they are well aware that's the biggest barrier to it being widely used. As battery prices fall, so will the bike price to make it competitive with the current offerings.

As far as aesthetics of the bike go, those will change. There has been a number of "ugly" bikes that have looked "like ass" over the years. Not to mention looks being a subjective thing.

As for customizing, most people can't handle what is out there. The electric bikes will potentially be even faster. Customizing won't be in the same manner we do it now with exhausts and things of that nature. Instead it'll be more motors possibly or ESC's and batteries. Pegs, bars, triple clamps, suspension, plastics and graphics all remain customizable. Locally, I see most bikes stock and a fair number even running stock pipes. So is customization really a barrier to entry?
This smart talk pretty much pointless if ama politics and manufacturers wants electric motocross they will make it electric no matter if it's eco friendly, more reliable, faster etc.. Was transition to 4t a progression? Actually whole transition made racing worse, sport became more expensive and it only increased noise problems. I don't really see big 4 from Japan messing with electric motors that much, maybe theres a different technology that we don't know about. Recharging is a BIG barrier to entry and even if batteries will become better there still can be situations where you need to recharge it at the track or in the middle of nowhere and what then?
VxeR
Posts
207
Joined
12/28/2015
Location
IT
10/9/2016 4:30am
VxeR wrote:
I'm 100% sure that only a handful will buy the Alta as it is today, and that handful won't do shit for noise or for money...
I'm 100% sure that only a handful will buy the Alta as it is today, and that handful won't do shit for noise or for money for Alta to improve. And if the government/tracks make them mandatory, 95% of people will just quit. 15k is insane no matter how you look at it. Plus you can't customize it a lot and let's be honest it looks like ass.
The cost of battery technology is getting more affordable since they are well aware that's the biggest barrier to it being widely used. As battery prices...
The cost of battery technology is getting more affordable since they are well aware that's the biggest barrier to it being widely used. As battery prices fall, so will the bike price to make it competitive with the current offerings.

As far as aesthetics of the bike go, those will change. There has been a number of "ugly" bikes that have looked "like ass" over the years. Not to mention looks being a subjective thing.

As for customizing, most people can't handle what is out there. The electric bikes will potentially be even faster. Customizing won't be in the same manner we do it now with exhausts and things of that nature. Instead it'll be more motors possibly or ESC's and batteries. Pegs, bars, triple clamps, suspension, plastics and graphics all remain customizable. Locally, I see most bikes stock and a fair number even running stock pipes. So is customization really a barrier to entry?
Yeah but how long would that take? Where would Alta get the funds for improvement? I sure don't know anyone who would spend 15k on it. You're talking about the long term, it will get better, the plastics will change, companies will adapt etc. but that is assuming that it is well received by the community and gets enough money in the market to develop all those things. As I said, I don't see that happening anytime soon. And the customizing part is just a minor complaint, it just wouldn't feel the same, you know?
OldYZRider1
Posts
848
Joined
7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL, USA
10/9/2016 5:09am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2016 5:22am
VxeR wrote:
Yeah but how long would that take? Where would Alta get the funds for improvement? I sure don't know anyone who would spend 15k on it...
Yeah but how long would that take? Where would Alta get the funds for improvement? I sure don't know anyone who would spend 15k on it. You're talking about the long term, it will get better, the plastics will change, companies will adapt etc. but that is assuming that it is well received by the community and gets enough money in the market to develop all those things. As I said, I don't see that happening anytime soon. And the customizing part is just a minor complaint, it just wouldn't feel the same, you know?
I believe Alta (and maybe others) have military and municipal
government contracts for their bikes. That's usually a way for a company to get their production up and going. I'd imagine the "stealth" abilities of electrics can be very important for military applications.

Post a reply to: Alta Motors Electric Dirt Bike Takes on Red Bull Straight Rhythm

The Latest