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Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.
I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.
Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.
I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.
And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
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After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another urinate on you forearms.
The acidic componant in the urine counteracts with the lactic acid and counteracts the blood pump.
I have not had arm pump in a year!
Anyway, it doesn't really work. No surprise there.
"hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to assist the therapeutic molecule through the skin. What did you use in your product as the transdermal enhancer? You are correct in that blood tests are done and are important to avoid serious side effects from these products. Out of curiosity did you do blood tests on the athletes testing your product?
The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.
I did a pub med search on each ingredient listed on your bottle and none came back as being transdermal.
Magnesium has been shown not to penetrate the skin per the study below.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216298
Vesicants and some nerve agents penetrate exposed skin, mainly through the sensitive integration areas of the personal protective equipment. Therefore, improving dermal barrier with a topical agent should reduce the threat of exposure. A topical skin protectant lotion (IB1) was developed to improve protection against chemical warfare agents. Preclinical studies in several animal models have proven the protective efficacy of IB1. Here we present the results of a randomized placebo-controlled, double-blind phase I clinical study, performed with 34 healthy volunteers. The study tested the safety of repeated applications, including ruling out transdermal permeation of magnesium, which may lead to a dangerous blood magnesium level, since the lotion contains magnesium sulfate. Other objectives included detection of dermatological adverse effects, assessment of application convenience, and effect on daily activities. Importantly, no serious adverse effects were recorded and the lotion did not interfere with daily tasks. There were no significant differences in magnesium levels between the placebo and the study groups in any of the applications. No toxic levels of magnesium were found in either group. We conclude that IB1 is probably safe, easily self-applied, and does not cause any significant inconvenience. Therefore, IB1 can be considered as an adjunctive chemical, biological, and radio-nuclear (CBRN) protective aid to field soldiers.
Your product states an increase in muscle endurance and CO2 to aid in oxygenation. I am gonna assume that's a typo as you wouldn't want to increase someones CO2, that could lead to RESPIRATORY ACIDOSIS as well as LACTIC ACIDOSIS but maybe thats what the SODIUM BICARBONATE in you product is for. Do you know how much sodium bicarbonate actually gets through into the blood stream?
You want to put your money where your mouth is. Pay to have a university run a research study and have it published. Until you can prove through a peer reviewed study that your product does what it says it does your are simply selling overpriced salt water.
If you have pre and post blood work of the athletes mentioned above showing a change in chemistry that would be a start.
Testimony is not evidence.
Reading this reminded what I had tucked away in my MX collection, I bought them probably 10 years ago at national round at Glen Helen.
Bought 5 containers used 1 and forgot about them .
Pump X
Why knock it before you try it?
I tried to hammer home the point also and asked for a published study only to be told he doesn't need one cause Dungey / Aldon etc all use it and thats good enough. I said thats not good enough and a load of pooh.
After that it was enough for me to stay with my own conclusion. The funny part is so many people / trainers and people who have a clue have messaged me saying its sad that 4Arm has gone this route.
Watching Olympics coverage last night I noticed that the gymnasts (men) were spraying something on their arms prior to doing the rings. Total respect for the strength and athleticism that is required in gymnastics. I couldn't help but think about the similarity of holding the rings or high bar and a set of handlebars.
Anyone know what the gymnasts spray on their arms ?
I acknowledge that just because the Olympic athletes use something does not mean that it really works but they do have access to a range of things that might not be commercially available.
NO.....i'm not suggesting steroids or foul play so please let's avoid that rant.
Pit Row
Most products have real world testing.
The proof something is quackery is a 3 point test:
1) it is overpriced (they gotta get all they can because you probably won't purchase it again)
2) it isn't provable that it works (real world or scientifically)
3) it doesn't work for the majority of the people
The guy said he would send out 25 free random samples of a product that is not overpriced.....my guess is he is pretty confident the majority will like it!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvVqVtPMuxA[/youtube]
I came out with the 4Arm Strong device last year and have subsequently sold 1500 units. Out of 1500 sales I have had only 3 returns vs hundreds of positive testimonies. Many of the top racers are using it in motocross, enduro, World SBK motoGP, Flat track and Speedway.
Before 4Arm Strong Sport Spray, the majority of my customers claimed 50 to 100% relief using the 4Arm Strong. When I introduced the spray, I sent it to my customers that were claiming a 50% relief. Every one of them said the addition of the spray totally relieved their arm pump. One of which is Alex Marquez, a very famous MotoGP racer from Spain.
Don't confuse "testing" with "trails." I understand the desire to see a 'trail" however I have not committed resources to performing a trial. I simply had several riders use it and tell me what they thought and I didn't get one negative reply.
Even though arm pump has been a decades long issue, it is simple to understand. It is simply caused by a lack of space in the forearm compartment. Nothing else. Not conditioning, not diet, not relaxing, not a lack of flexibility. The forearm compartment is only so big and when it fills with blood due to twisting the throttle, pulling the brake and controlling the motorcycle it can constrict the movement of the forearm flexor muscles, which in turn weakens the grip.
Please don't respond with, "If you get arm pump you don't ride enough, or you aren't in good physical condition." If go to my IG you will see the riders that use 4Arm Strong. Some of them are on the podium every week in the 450 class in Supercross and the nationals and still got chronic arm pump until they started using the 4Arm Strong.
The 4Arm Strong is a very simple device which tractions the forearm muscles and fascia toward the elbow while your stretch in the opposite direction. This type of assisted stretch creates more space in the forearm compartment. More space, less constriction. You can get the same result from an ART therapist, it will just cost you significantly more money to keep up with the treatments.
The instructions for the spray are to use it after you use the device. That being said, I have had several people tell me the spray reduced their arm pump even without using the device first, so I expect people to get some results from the spray alone, I just don't want to make that claim. However if you want to use the ultimate system, you should consider the device as well.
One thing for sure, 4Arm Strong Sport Spray will help you ride more relaxed.
Like I said on my last post, I try very hard to provide the best customer service. I will return anyone's money if they don't feel like they are getting the results they hoped for. There is really no risk in trying my products. Even those people out there that want to see the science behind everything before they tame their skepticism, you can be sure you will be treated respectfully and fairly if you make the plunge. All I ask is for the same treatment in return.
Some of these people complaining might have heartburn,go to their doctor and he prescribes them baking soda (the active ingredient) laced with some carcinogenic chemical and it works for them. Baking soda is good stuff.
Most doctors will not prescribe you herbs or something natural for armpump/nervousness, so what's a guy to do? Some will prescribe xanax and tell you to relax like mine did, no thanks. I don't wan't to take what the doctors take, they live ten years less than their patients!
Have any of you complaining ever tried essential oils alone? Those alone will have some effect on the armpump. Bottom line, it works on some physically, some with a placebo, and some a mix a both. Working is working.
I'm sure you've experimented with DMSO right? It is a difficult ingredient to work with, but I could not imagine a better ingredient for this type of formula. I have my own "secret cure" but would love to give your product a go, as the ingredients look good. Other hand-fatiguing sports would be right up your alley also. Good luck sir!
"4Arm Strong Sport Spray can be used topically anywhere on the body to reduce pain and stiffness".
"The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.
4Arm Strong Sport Spray works synergistically with the human body to positively affect energy levels and muscles function for peak performance".
These are big claims that should be proven through the proper channels WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE. If you want to be taken seriously you need to be serious about how you prove what your product claims.
When a Factory MX rider goes out with a team to test suspension, motors, tires, transmissions, etc. do you think the team simply asks the rider how he/she feels? HELL NO!! The team collects data by using some sophisticated instruments. Why do teams DYNO motors? Why do EXERCISE PHYSIOLOGY labs exist? Why do VO2 testing? WHY? Because they provide QUANTIFIED DATA that's why. Something that you have not be able to provide with your product.
Can you at least answer this question. How much Sodium Bicarbonate is in each pump and how much actually gets through into the blood? How long do you have to wait to see a change in pH? If you can't answer this your product is JUNK.
Scientific studies are how products are proven to work. Often times reproducing the same study over and over again solidifies the claim. Doing a small sample size preliminary study would be a start and it wouldn't cost very much if any any at all. There are plenty of exercise physiology grad students looking for thesis projects that would jump on this.
He won't do this because he knows his product does not do what it claims it does.
Could you imagine what the landscape would look like if these people where held to the same liability standards pharmacists and other doctors. Also if these products had to be tested to the same standard as traditional medicines as well as over the counter medicines? It wouldn't be the billion dollar industry that it is I can tell you that.
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