Arm Pump Spray lol

Machiavelli3
Posts
141
Joined
10/19/2015
Location
Joseph, OR US
6/24/2016 2:03pm
shake well before using

Motoxdoc
Posts
2703
Joined
11/8/2009
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO US
6/24/2016 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2016 2:14pm
One day after an REM race Flyin Mike Brown rolled up to my truck and buffed out my headlights, so I gave him $10. About 10 mins later he came by and gave me something called “panther juice”…..it’s supposed to help armpump. I’ve had it sitting in my car for almost a year…lol…one of these days I’m going to try it and I’ll let you all know how it worked!
4Arm Strong
Posts
74
Joined
8/17/2015
Location
Encinitas, CA US
8/6/2016 2:04pm
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/6/2016 2:10pm
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
These guys have never heard of a birth control patch? Pain relief patch? Stop smoking patch? That goes thru the skin?

The Shop

8/6/2016 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2016 3:09pm
Something else to try that i swear by,

After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another urinate on you forearms.

The acidic componant in the urine counteracts with the lactic acid and counteracts the blood pump.

I have not had arm pump in a year!
8/6/2016 3:07pm
People buy carbon parts and titanium bolt kits to reduce weight on their bikes, and a spray for arm pump seems laughable?
8/6/2016 4:37pm
Something else to try that i swear by, After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another...
Something else to try that i swear by,

After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another urinate on you forearms.

The acidic componant in the urine counteracts with the lactic acid and counteracts the blood pump.

I have not had arm pump in a year!
Ummm.... NO !!
Blink
seth505
Posts
10170
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA US
8/6/2016 4:47pm
Something else to try that i swear by, After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another...
Something else to try that i swear by,

After a couple of warm up laps or practice go somewhere private and either urinate or have another urinate on you forearms.

The acidic componant in the urine counteracts with the lactic acid and counteracts the blood pump.

I have not had arm pump in a year!
8/6/2016 5:38pm
Personally I stick to frequent, violent masturbation to relieve my arm pump issues. Plus the cream that it makes gets absorbed into my skin as well. Home remedy!
emohteeoh
Posts
67
Joined
5/27/2016
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
8/6/2016 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2016 7:24pm
This is gold. I can't believe this stuff is still around. If you guys remember the old PCS neck support systems that a lot of kids wore years before the leatt or any other option was available, they also sold a product that was marketed first as APR (Arm Pump Relief Spray), and then later as Moto911. I used to work for the guy. I sewed lycra covers for those cowboy collars for days for a summer job when I was 15.

Anyway, it doesn't really work. No surprise there.
EddieC
Posts
362
Joined
2/26/2012
Location
Temecula, CA US
8/7/2016 12:19am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
Two month long test. Out of curiosity what kind of testing was done?

"hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to assist the therapeutic molecule through the skin. What did you use in your product as the transdermal enhancer? You are correct in that blood tests are done and are important to avoid serious side effects from these products. Out of curiosity did you do blood tests on the athletes testing your product?

The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.

I did a pub med search on each ingredient listed on your bottle and none came back as being transdermal.

Magnesium has been shown not to penetrate the skin per the study below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216298

Vesicants and some nerve agents penetrate exposed skin, mainly through the sensitive integration areas of the personal protective equipment. Therefore, improving dermal barrier with a topical agent should reduce the threat of exposure. A topical skin protectant lotion (IB1) was developed to improve protection against chemical warfare agents. Preclinical studies in several animal models have proven the protective efficacy of IB1. Here we present the results of a randomized placebo-controlled, double-blind phase I clinical study, performed with 34 healthy volunteers. The study tested the safety of repeated applications, including ruling out transdermal permeation of magnesium, which may lead to a dangerous blood magnesium level, since the lotion contains magnesium sulfate. Other objectives included detection of dermatological adverse effects, assessment of application convenience, and effect on daily activities. Importantly, no serious adverse effects were recorded and the lotion did not interfere with daily tasks. There were no significant differences in magnesium levels between the placebo and the study groups in any of the applications. No toxic levels of magnesium were found in either group. We conclude that IB1 is probably safe, easily self-applied, and does not cause any significant inconvenience. Therefore, IB1 can be considered as an adjunctive chemical, biological, and radio-nuclear (CBRN) protective aid to field soldiers.

Your product states an increase in muscle endurance and CO2 to aid in oxygenation. I am gonna assume that's a typo as you wouldn't want to increase someones CO2, that could lead to RESPIRATORY ACIDOSIS as well as LACTIC ACIDOSIS but maybe thats what the SODIUM BICARBONATE in you product is for. Do you know how much sodium bicarbonate actually gets through into the blood stream?

You want to put your money where your mouth is. Pay to have a university run a research study and have it published. Until you can prove through a peer reviewed study that your product does what it says it does your are simply selling overpriced salt water.

If you have pre and post blood work of the athletes mentioned above showing a change in chemistry that would be a start.

Testimony is not evidence.


Tonynz
Posts
845
Joined
9/21/2014
Location
NZ
8/7/2016 12:22am
I have the 4 Arm Strong, device, I am sure it is working for me.
Reading this reminded what I had tucked away in my MX collection, I bought them probably 10 years ago at national round at Glen Helen.
Bought 5 containers used 1 and forgot about them .
Pump X

8/7/2016 3:52am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
kkawboy14 wrote:
These guys have never heard of a birth control patch? Pain relief patch? Stop smoking patch? That goes thru the skin?
I think this is stand up and a great way to prove you believe in your product. I emailed him and we are trying out the product and can not wait to report on the results.
Why knock it before you try it?
colonel
Posts
421
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
La Massana AD
8/7/2016 4:36am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
EddieC wrote:
Two month long test. Out of curiosity what kind of testing was done? "hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to...
Two month long test. Out of curiosity what kind of testing was done?

"hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to assist the therapeutic molecule through the skin. What did you use in your product as the transdermal enhancer? You are correct in that blood tests are done and are important to avoid serious side effects from these products. Out of curiosity did you do blood tests on the athletes testing your product?

The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.

I did a pub med search on each ingredient listed on your bottle and none came back as being transdermal.

Magnesium has been shown not to penetrate the skin per the study below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216298

Vesicants and some nerve agents penetrate exposed skin, mainly through the sensitive integration areas of the personal protective equipment. Therefore, improving dermal barrier with a topical agent should reduce the threat of exposure. A topical skin protectant lotion (IB1) was developed to improve protection against chemical warfare agents. Preclinical studies in several animal models have proven the protective efficacy of IB1. Here we present the results of a randomized placebo-controlled, double-blind phase I clinical study, performed with 34 healthy volunteers. The study tested the safety of repeated applications, including ruling out transdermal permeation of magnesium, which may lead to a dangerous blood magnesium level, since the lotion contains magnesium sulfate. Other objectives included detection of dermatological adverse effects, assessment of application convenience, and effect on daily activities. Importantly, no serious adverse effects were recorded and the lotion did not interfere with daily tasks. There were no significant differences in magnesium levels between the placebo and the study groups in any of the applications. No toxic levels of magnesium were found in either group. We conclude that IB1 is probably safe, easily self-applied, and does not cause any significant inconvenience. Therefore, IB1 can be considered as an adjunctive chemical, biological, and radio-nuclear (CBRN) protective aid to field soldiers.

Your product states an increase in muscle endurance and CO2 to aid in oxygenation. I am gonna assume that's a typo as you wouldn't want to increase someones CO2, that could lead to RESPIRATORY ACIDOSIS as well as LACTIC ACIDOSIS but maybe thats what the SODIUM BICARBONATE in you product is for. Do you know how much sodium bicarbonate actually gets through into the blood stream?

You want to put your money where your mouth is. Pay to have a university run a research study and have it published. Until you can prove through a peer reviewed study that your product does what it says it does your are simply selling overpriced salt water.

If you have pre and post blood work of the athletes mentioned above showing a change in chemistry that would be a start.

Testimony is not evidence.


Great post and I have brought basically all these points except a few via a messenger conversation up with him only be told Im a this and that and the more I pushed evidence the angrier he got only to be told I am essentially a trouble maker.

I tried to hammer home the point also and asked for a published study only to be told he doesn't need one cause Dungey / Aldon etc all use it and thats good enough. I said thats not good enough and a load of pooh.

After that it was enough for me to stay with my own conclusion. The funny part is so many people / trainers and people who have a clue have messaged me saying its sad that 4Arm has gone this route.

TomZ
Posts
708
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
West Bloomfield, MI US
8/7/2016 4:53am
Like many , I am skeptical about many products that pop up with claims that seem hard to prove in a clinical setting.

Watching Olympics coverage last night I noticed that the gymnasts (men) were spraying something on their arms prior to doing the rings. Total respect for the strength and athleticism that is required in gymnastics. I couldn't help but think about the similarity of holding the rings or high bar and a set of handlebars.

Anyone know what the gymnasts spray on their arms ?

I acknowledge that just because the Olympic athletes use something does not mean that it really works but they do have access to a range of things that might not be commercially available.

NO.....i'm not suggesting steroids or foul play so please let's avoid that rant.
stremme12
Posts
1219
Joined
3/10/2015
Location
HA, HI US
8/7/2016 5:49am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2016 5:50am
TomZ wrote:
Like many , I am skeptical about many products that pop up with claims that seem hard to prove in a clinical setting. Watching Olympics coverage...
Like many , I am skeptical about many products that pop up with claims that seem hard to prove in a clinical setting.

Watching Olympics coverage last night I noticed that the gymnasts (men) were spraying something on their arms prior to doing the rings. Total respect for the strength and athleticism that is required in gymnastics. I couldn't help but think about the similarity of holding the rings or high bar and a set of handlebars.

Anyone know what the gymnasts spray on their arms ?

I acknowledge that just because the Olympic athletes use something does not mean that it really works but they do have access to a range of things that might not be commercially available.

NO.....i'm not suggesting steroids or foul play so please let's avoid that rant.
Pretty sure they were spraying something on their arms prior to taping them. It could have just been something to help with the tape process. It looked like they were only spraying/applying in the taped areas.
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/7/2016 6:19am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
kkawboy14 wrote:
These guys have never heard of a birth control patch? Pain relief patch? Stop smoking patch? That goes thru the skin?
sgrimmxdad wrote:
I think this is stand up and a great way to prove you believe in your product. I emailed him and we are trying out the...
I think this is stand up and a great way to prove you believe in your product. I emailed him and we are trying out the product and can not wait to report on the results.
Why knock it before you try it?
He is sending me some also.
8/7/2016 6:49am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2016 6:55am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
The best way to deal with skeptics is to provide scientific evidence supporting the claims you have made. I'm sure you didn't just pick the recipe for the arm pump spray without doing indepth research, otherwise you would be wasting your resources. So perhaps show us the documents/studies that made you believe this was the right combination of dead sea minerals and oils to cure arm pump.
disbanded
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Evergreen, CO US
8/7/2016 7:02am
But Dungey said
slipdog
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10055
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Nor Cal, CA US
8/7/2016 7:07am
Slipdog is interested in arm pump relief. Slipdog emailed his address. Slipdog will tell you rabble rousing SOB's what time it is. Slipdog don't lie!
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/7/2016 7:19am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
The best way to deal with skeptics is to provide scientific evidence supporting the claims you have made. I'm sure you didn't just pick the recipe...
The best way to deal with skeptics is to provide scientific evidence supporting the claims you have made. I'm sure you didn't just pick the recipe for the arm pump spray without doing indepth research, otherwise you would be wasting your resources. So perhaps show us the documents/studies that made you believe this was the right combination of dead sea minerals and oils to cure arm pump.
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing.

Most products have real world testing.

The proof something is quackery is a 3 point test:
1) it is overpriced (they gotta get all they can because you probably won't purchase it again)

2) it isn't provable that it works (real world or scientifically)

3) it doesn't work for the majority of the people


The guy said he would send out 25 free random samples of a product that is not overpriced.....my guess is he is pretty confident the majority will like it!
8/7/2016 7:21am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2016 7:24am
TomZ wrote:
Like many , I am skeptical about many products that pop up with claims that seem hard to prove in a clinical setting. Watching Olympics coverage...
Like many , I am skeptical about many products that pop up with claims that seem hard to prove in a clinical setting.

Watching Olympics coverage last night I noticed that the gymnasts (men) were spraying something on their arms prior to doing the rings. Total respect for the strength and athleticism that is required in gymnastics. I couldn't help but think about the similarity of holding the rings or high bar and a set of handlebars.

Anyone know what the gymnasts spray on their arms ?

I acknowledge that just because the Olympic athletes use something does not mean that it really works but they do have access to a range of things that might not be commercially available.

NO.....i'm not suggesting steroids or foul play so please let's avoid that rant.
stremme12 wrote:
Pretty sure they were spraying something on their arms prior to taping them. It could have just been something to help with the tape process. It...
Pretty sure they were spraying something on their arms prior to taping them. It could have just been something to help with the tape process. It looked like they were only spraying/applying in the taped areas.
8/7/2016 7:38am
kkawboy14 wrote:
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing. Most products have real world...
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing.

Most products have real world testing.

The proof something is quackery is a 3 point test:
1) it is overpriced (they gotta get all they can because you probably won't purchase it again)

2) it isn't provable that it works (real world or scientifically)

3) it doesn't work for the majority of the people


The guy said he would send out 25 free random samples of a product that is not overpriced.....my guess is he is pretty confident the majority will like it!
So because he is giving out 50 oz of his product (2 oz of which are going to you) the product must work. And you are convinced of this even before he has mailed it to you. Stay scientific
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/7/2016 9:22am
kkawboy14 wrote:
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing. Most products have real world...
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing.

Most products have real world testing.

The proof something is quackery is a 3 point test:
1) it is overpriced (they gotta get all they can because you probably won't purchase it again)

2) it isn't provable that it works (real world or scientifically)

3) it doesn't work for the majority of the people


The guy said he would send out 25 free random samples of a product that is not overpriced.....my guess is he is pretty confident the majority will like it!
So because he is giving out 50 oz of his product (2 oz of which are going to you) the product must work. And you are...
So because he is giving out 50 oz of his product (2 oz of which are going to you) the product must work. And you are convinced of this even before he has mailed it to you. Stay scientific
Where did I say I was convinced of anything?
4Arm Strong
Posts
74
Joined
8/17/2015
Location
Encinitas, CA US
8/7/2016 9:43am
I have to mention, we don't claim the spray reduces arm pump in of itself. That is what has been implied by the author of this post, probably because we sell a device that does reduce arm pump. However if you read our web site we say 4Arm Strong Sport Spray was implemented to assist the already popular 4Arm Strong device in reducing arm pump. It is the two that work together that ultimately reduces arm pump. If you read our web site we claim the spray reduces muscle stiffness, reduces cramping and lactic acid build up, all good things when the goal is to reduce arm pump.

I came out with the 4Arm Strong device last year and have subsequently sold 1500 units. Out of 1500 sales I have had only 3 returns vs hundreds of positive testimonies. Many of the top racers are using it in motocross, enduro, World SBK motoGP, Flat track and Speedway.

Before 4Arm Strong Sport Spray, the majority of my customers claimed 50 to 100% relief using the 4Arm Strong. When I introduced the spray, I sent it to my customers that were claiming a 50% relief. Every one of them said the addition of the spray totally relieved their arm pump. One of which is Alex Marquez, a very famous MotoGP racer from Spain.

Don't confuse "testing" with "trails." I understand the desire to see a 'trail" however I have not committed resources to performing a trial. I simply had several riders use it and tell me what they thought and I didn't get one negative reply.

Even though arm pump has been a decades long issue, it is simple to understand. It is simply caused by a lack of space in the forearm compartment. Nothing else. Not conditioning, not diet, not relaxing, not a lack of flexibility. The forearm compartment is only so big and when it fills with blood due to twisting the throttle, pulling the brake and controlling the motorcycle it can constrict the movement of the forearm flexor muscles, which in turn weakens the grip.

Please don't respond with, "If you get arm pump you don't ride enough, or you aren't in good physical condition." If go to my IG you will see the riders that use 4Arm Strong. Some of them are on the podium every week in the 450 class in Supercross and the nationals and still got chronic arm pump until they started using the 4Arm Strong.

The 4Arm Strong is a very simple device which tractions the forearm muscles and fascia toward the elbow while your stretch in the opposite direction. This type of assisted stretch creates more space in the forearm compartment. More space, less constriction. You can get the same result from an ART therapist, it will just cost you significantly more money to keep up with the treatments.

The instructions for the spray are to use it after you use the device. That being said, I have had several people tell me the spray reduced their arm pump even without using the device first, so I expect people to get some results from the spray alone, I just don't want to make that claim. However if you want to use the ultimate system, you should consider the device as well.

One thing for sure, 4Arm Strong Sport Spray will help you ride more relaxed.

Like I said on my last post, I try very hard to provide the best customer service. I will return anyone's money if they don't feel like they are getting the results they hoped for. There is really no risk in trying my products. Even those people out there that want to see the science behind everything before they tame their skepticism, you can be sure you will be treated respectfully and fairly if you make the plunge. All I ask is for the same treatment in return.
8/7/2016 10:37am
Good for you standing behind your product. Nothing wrong with trying to find a natural solution while solving problems for people and making a living doing it.

Some of these people complaining might have heartburn,go to their doctor and he prescribes them baking soda (the active ingredient) laced with some carcinogenic chemical and it works for them. Baking soda is good stuff.

Most doctors will not prescribe you herbs or something natural for armpump/nervousness, so what's a guy to do? Some will prescribe xanax and tell you to relax like mine did, no thanks. I don't wan't to take what the doctors take, they live ten years less than their patients!

Have any of you complaining ever tried essential oils alone? Those alone will have some effect on the armpump. Bottom line, it works on some physically, some with a placebo, and some a mix a both. Working is working.

I'm sure you've experimented with DMSO right? It is a difficult ingredient to work with, but I could not imagine a better ingredient for this type of formula. I have my own "secret cure" but would love to give your product a go, as the ingredients look good. Other hand-fatiguing sports would be right up your alley also. Good luck sir!
EddieC
Posts
362
Joined
2/26/2012
Location
Temecula, CA US
8/7/2016 11:41am
I have to mention, we don't claim the spray reduces arm pump in of itself. That is what has been implied by the author of this...
I have to mention, we don't claim the spray reduces arm pump in of itself. That is what has been implied by the author of this post, probably because we sell a device that does reduce arm pump. However if you read our web site we say 4Arm Strong Sport Spray was implemented to assist the already popular 4Arm Strong device in reducing arm pump. It is the two that work together that ultimately reduces arm pump. If you read our web site we claim the spray reduces muscle stiffness, reduces cramping and lactic acid build up, all good things when the goal is to reduce arm pump.

I came out with the 4Arm Strong device last year and have subsequently sold 1500 units. Out of 1500 sales I have had only 3 returns vs hundreds of positive testimonies. Many of the top racers are using it in motocross, enduro, World SBK motoGP, Flat track and Speedway.

Before 4Arm Strong Sport Spray, the majority of my customers claimed 50 to 100% relief using the 4Arm Strong. When I introduced the spray, I sent it to my customers that were claiming a 50% relief. Every one of them said the addition of the spray totally relieved their arm pump. One of which is Alex Marquez, a very famous MotoGP racer from Spain.

Don't confuse "testing" with "trails." I understand the desire to see a 'trail" however I have not committed resources to performing a trial. I simply had several riders use it and tell me what they thought and I didn't get one negative reply.

Even though arm pump has been a decades long issue, it is simple to understand. It is simply caused by a lack of space in the forearm compartment. Nothing else. Not conditioning, not diet, not relaxing, not a lack of flexibility. The forearm compartment is only so big and when it fills with blood due to twisting the throttle, pulling the brake and controlling the motorcycle it can constrict the movement of the forearm flexor muscles, which in turn weakens the grip.

Please don't respond with, "If you get arm pump you don't ride enough, or you aren't in good physical condition." If go to my IG you will see the riders that use 4Arm Strong. Some of them are on the podium every week in the 450 class in Supercross and the nationals and still got chronic arm pump until they started using the 4Arm Strong.

The 4Arm Strong is a very simple device which tractions the forearm muscles and fascia toward the elbow while your stretch in the opposite direction. This type of assisted stretch creates more space in the forearm compartment. More space, less constriction. You can get the same result from an ART therapist, it will just cost you significantly more money to keep up with the treatments.

The instructions for the spray are to use it after you use the device. That being said, I have had several people tell me the spray reduced their arm pump even without using the device first, so I expect people to get some results from the spray alone, I just don't want to make that claim. However if you want to use the ultimate system, you should consider the device as well.

One thing for sure, 4Arm Strong Sport Spray will help you ride more relaxed.

Like I said on my last post, I try very hard to provide the best customer service. I will return anyone's money if they don't feel like they are getting the results they hoped for. There is really no risk in trying my products. Even those people out there that want to see the science behind everything before they tame their skepticism, you can be sure you will be treated respectfully and fairly if you make the plunge. All I ask is for the same treatment in return.
True your product doesn't claim it alone reduces "arm pump" but it does claim per your website

"4Arm Strong Sport Spray can be used topically anywhere on the body to reduce pain and stiffness".

"The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.

4Arm Strong Sport Spray works synergistically with the human body to positively affect energy levels and muscles function for peak performance".

These are big claims that should be proven through the proper channels WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE. If you want to be taken seriously you need to be serious about how you prove what your product claims.

When a Factory MX rider goes out with a team to test suspension, motors, tires, transmissions, etc. do you think the team simply asks the rider how he/she feels? HELL NO!! The team collects data by using some sophisticated instruments. Why do teams DYNO motors? Why do EXERCISE PHYSIOLOGY labs exist? Why do VO2 testing? WHY? Because they provide QUANTIFIED DATA that's why. Something that you have not be able to provide with your product.

Can you at least answer this question. How much Sodium Bicarbonate is in each pump and how much actually gets through into the blood? How long do you have to wait to see a change in pH? If you can't answer this your product is JUNK.
EddieC
Posts
362
Joined
2/26/2012
Location
Temecula, CA US
8/7/2016 11:52am
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
The best way to deal with skeptics is to provide scientific evidence supporting the claims you have made. I'm sure you didn't just pick the recipe...
The best way to deal with skeptics is to provide scientific evidence supporting the claims you have made. I'm sure you didn't just pick the recipe for the arm pump spray without doing indepth research, otherwise you would be wasting your resources. So perhaps show us the documents/studies that made you believe this was the right combination of dead sea minerals and oils to cure arm pump.
kkawboy14 wrote:
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing. Most products have real world...
You really think all products have "scientific" studies for proof they work? That would cost about $2-$4 million for university testing.

Most products have real world testing.

The proof something is quackery is a 3 point test:
1) it is overpriced (they gotta get all they can because you probably won't purchase it again)

2) it isn't provable that it works (real world or scientifically)

3) it doesn't work for the majority of the people


The guy said he would send out 25 free random samples of a product that is not overpriced.....my guess is he is pretty confident the majority will like it!
I thought you where trying to be sarcastic at first but I can see now that you are not.

Scientific studies are how products are proven to work. Often times reproducing the same study over and over again solidifies the claim. Doing a small sample size preliminary study would be a start and it wouldn't cost very much if any any at all. There are plenty of exercise physiology grad students looking for thesis projects that would jump on this.

He won't do this because he knows his product does not do what it claims it does.

EddieC
Posts
362
Joined
2/26/2012
Location
Temecula, CA US
8/7/2016 12:06pm
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first...
I find it so incredible that people on this thread are so willing to form an opinion without trying the product. I will send the first 25 people that email me their name and shipping address a free bottle of the spray so they can make an informed comment, not just speculate. Lee@4arm-strong.com.

Let me add some logic to this thread as well. Especially to those who said they can't believe people like me can get away with making claims like I am making. After hearing the same things about the 4Arm Strong device and then winning over many skeptics I wasn't about to bring out a product that didn't work. Do you think I would risk losing all that I have built to bring out a $14.95 spray that was snake oil? What good what that have done for me? Sell a few hundred bottles so people could discover it didn't work? I had 4Arm Strong Sport Spray tested for two months by Aldon, Ryan Dungey, Marvin Musquin, Alex Martin, Matt Goerke, Steward Baylor, Alex Marquez, Jonathan Rea and a few others. All of them replied that the spray worked surprisingly well.

I have been part of the MX world for 40 years and have built a very good reputation, first as a racer and now as a therapist and the founder of 4Arm Strong. I don't promote snake oil.

Topical magnesium oil works as muscles relaxer. Sodium Bicarbonate reduces lactic acid. Both are ingredients in the spray. Saying oils and creams won't absorb through the skin is an old school and litigated myth. Just ask the hormone doctors that primarily prescribe creams to increase testosterone and estrogen levels. Blood tests prove these creams are being absorbed.

I know there will always be skeptics and haters and people who think they need to "warn the masses" from the guy driving the covered wagon. I actually understand this mentality considering all the charlatans who have come before me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Be one of the first 25 people that email me and see for yourself.

And lastly, I have stood behind my products since the beginning, giving the best customer service possible. I answer all questions. When you call the number on the web site, you reach me. I am here to discuss training regimens to make sure riders aren't making their arm pump worse. Everyone that has contacted me for help has received it and anyone not happy with my products can get 100% of their money back, no questions asked.
EddieC wrote:
Two month long test. Out of curiosity what kind of testing was done? "hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to...
Two month long test. Out of curiosity what kind of testing was done?

"hormone" doctors prescribe FDA approved TRANSDERMAL patches. These patches use transdermal enhancers to assist the therapeutic molecule through the skin. What did you use in your product as the transdermal enhancer? You are correct in that blood tests are done and are important to avoid serious side effects from these products. Out of curiosity did you do blood tests on the athletes testing your product?

The results are not only a reduction of muscle stiffness, cramping, lactic acid build up and pain, but an increase in muscle endurance and C02 which aids in oxygenation.

I did a pub med search on each ingredient listed on your bottle and none came back as being transdermal.

Magnesium has been shown not to penetrate the skin per the study below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216298

Vesicants and some nerve agents penetrate exposed skin, mainly through the sensitive integration areas of the personal protective equipment. Therefore, improving dermal barrier with a topical agent should reduce the threat of exposure. A topical skin protectant lotion (IB1) was developed to improve protection against chemical warfare agents. Preclinical studies in several animal models have proven the protective efficacy of IB1. Here we present the results of a randomized placebo-controlled, double-blind phase I clinical study, performed with 34 healthy volunteers. The study tested the safety of repeated applications, including ruling out transdermal permeation of magnesium, which may lead to a dangerous blood magnesium level, since the lotion contains magnesium sulfate. Other objectives included detection of dermatological adverse effects, assessment of application convenience, and effect on daily activities. Importantly, no serious adverse effects were recorded and the lotion did not interfere with daily tasks. There were no significant differences in magnesium levels between the placebo and the study groups in any of the applications. No toxic levels of magnesium were found in either group. We conclude that IB1 is probably safe, easily self-applied, and does not cause any significant inconvenience. Therefore, IB1 can be considered as an adjunctive chemical, biological, and radio-nuclear (CBRN) protective aid to field soldiers.

Your product states an increase in muscle endurance and CO2 to aid in oxygenation. I am gonna assume that's a typo as you wouldn't want to increase someones CO2, that could lead to RESPIRATORY ACIDOSIS as well as LACTIC ACIDOSIS but maybe thats what the SODIUM BICARBONATE in you product is for. Do you know how much sodium bicarbonate actually gets through into the blood stream?

You want to put your money where your mouth is. Pay to have a university run a research study and have it published. Until you can prove through a peer reviewed study that your product does what it says it does your are simply selling overpriced salt water.

If you have pre and post blood work of the athletes mentioned above showing a change in chemistry that would be a start.

Testimony is not evidence.


colonel wrote:
Great post and I have brought basically all these points except a few via a messenger conversation up with him only be told Im a this...
Great post and I have brought basically all these points except a few via a messenger conversation up with him only be told Im a this and that and the more I pushed evidence the angrier he got only to be told I am essentially a trouble maker.

I tried to hammer home the point also and asked for a published study only to be told he doesn't need one cause Dungey / Aldon etc all use it and thats good enough. I said thats not good enough and a load of pooh.

After that it was enough for me to stay with my own conclusion. The funny part is so many people / trainers and people who have a clue have messaged me saying its sad that 4Arm has gone this route.

This is the modus operandi for snake oil salesmen. Whip up some crazy potion that targets a need that cost pennies to make and hype it up with testimonies from celebrities, famous athletes and unethical health care providers whom may be provided some shares in the company or compensation then charge a demographically fair price and watch the dollars roll in.

Could you imagine what the landscape would look like if these people where held to the same liability standards pharmacists and other doctors. Also if these products had to be tested to the same standard as traditional medicines as well as over the counter medicines? It wouldn't be the billion dollar industry that it is I can tell you that.

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