The Part that Failed on Ken Roczen's Forks

dbrunski125 wrote:

Sometimes I feel like he'd be further ahead sticking with one set of suspension rather then bounce all over the place. If I'm correct he's gone...

Sometimes I feel like he'd be further ahead sticking with one set of suspension rather then bounce all over the place.

If I'm correct he's gone from the showa tac air fork, to the showa air spring assist fork, to the showa spring forks, and back to the showa tac air fork.

But at the end of the day I am not a pro rider so what do I know ....

USMCMXer wrote:

He is running zero Showa components, spring or air. Has been on varying KYB setups over the past year or so.

gpracer36 wrote:

so it seems his fork did not lose air pressure? Is that what you are saying? I was under the impression his fork lost air pressure...

so it seems his fork did not lose air pressure? Is that what you are saying? I was under the impression his fork lost air pressure thus causing him to not be able to jump, no? Whatever the reason, if he had spring forks, this would not happen, correct? Will suck to lose the championship by a point or two.

Bruce372 wrote:

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over...

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over the front brake.

philG wrote:

Good journalism.. just wondering what kind of data that gives them

ML512 wrote:

He was talking about Stewart's stuff. Kenny was on Showa components all last season until Monster Cup... So Kenny has been on KYB air for about...

He was talking about Stewart's stuff. Kenny was on Showa components all last season until Monster Cup... So Kenny has been on KYB air for about seven months.

dbrunski125 wrote:

I'm talking about ml comment on js7 fork swap

ML512 wrote:

For those on the conspiracy team that don't believe RCH team taking responsibility for the fork issues on Ken Roczen's bike, this should help clear up...

For those on the conspiracy team that don't believe RCH team taking responsibility for the fork issues on Ken Roczen's bike, this should help clear up what they're talking about.



The wire you can see here, coming out of this left-side fork, isn't normally there. This sensor was just recently added by the RCH group and is not placed there by KYB. There's not normally a hole or insert area there for this type of data acquisition, so RCH had to modify the fork cap to add this in. To note, it's only located on the left side fork as well.

After the first moto, this was fairly quick for the team to diagnose as they pumped the fork back up and discovered this leak. I, like most, initially thought it could be fork seal failure. But to see for myself, I chased the team back to the pits to watch the tear down process and I noticed neither lower fork leg was covered in oil, as you would normally see during a fork seal failure, especially when there's air pressure pushing out and taking more oil than usual with it.

This is why you see the RCH team apologizing, as this wasn't KYB or their component's fault. For those that will argue how RCH wouldn't throw a sponsor under-the-bus... RCH pays KYB for their services and components, not the other way around. If it was KYB's fault, you would hear it. Ken Roczen started and won the second moto on a set of KYB PSF1 forks as well.

ML512 wrote:

He was talking about Stewart's stuff. Kenny was on Showa components all last season until Monster Cup... So Kenny has been on KYB air for about...

He was talking about Stewart's stuff. Kenny was on Showa components all last season until Monster Cup... So Kenny has been on KYB air for about seven months.

USMCMXer wrote:

Gotcha. Sorry dbrunski125, I guess I mis-read that. I agree though, these guys searching for "feel" could probably benefit more by refining one choice, vice constantly...

Gotcha. Sorry dbrunski125, I guess I mis-read that. I agree though, these guys searching for "feel" could probably benefit more by refining one choice, vice constantly starting with a new or different design.

TeamGreen wrote:

Yes Air Forks suck. Nevermind that I have a set of PC Bullt PSF-1s that work better than anything-else I've ever had (ML can tell you...

Yes

Air Forks suck.

Nevermind that I have a set of PC Bullt PSF-1s that work better than anything-else I've ever had (ML can tell you about some of the really good KYB Spring-Kit stuff that most of us prefered BEFORE PSF-1s).
Nevermind the Shorty has been running Air-EXCLUSIVELY for what...? 3 seasons..? & he ain't going back...
Nevermind that AERs are getting Rave Reviews and have been seen on someone's "Practice Bikes" at his Ranch... STOCK A E Rs...

plowboy wrote:

I have no idea hat the pressures are at full compression but I would have used a tube instead of a hose fore sure. A fitting...

I have no idea hat the pressures are at full compression but I would have used a tube instead of a hose fore sure. A fitting beats a spring clamp every day of the week and twice on Saturday.

colintrax wrote:

Thank you, hopefully this'll shut up the conspiracy theorists who just can't accept an answer. Did you happen to talk to Ken about this? No more...

Thank you, hopefully this'll shut up the conspiracy theorists who just can't accept an answer.
Did you happen to talk to Ken about this? No more air forks? No more sensors during a race? Or does he accept this was a freak incident and shouldn't happen again?

ML512 wrote:

I'm 99% sure you'll see KYB PSF1 forks on his bike next weekend. Speaking of suspension swaps... James Stewart raced Hangtown on Showa spring forks but...

I'm 99% sure you'll see KYB PSF1 forks on his bike next weekend. Speaking of suspension swaps... James Stewart raced Hangtown on Showa spring forks but rode practice at Glen Helen on Showa air forks.

dbrunski125 wrote:

Sometimes I feel like he'd be further ahead sticking with one set of suspension rather then bounce all over the place. If I'm correct he's gone...

Sometimes I feel like he'd be further ahead sticking with one set of suspension rather then bounce all over the place.

If I'm correct he's gone from the showa tac air fork, to the showa air spring assist fork, to the showa spring forks, and back to the showa tac air fork.

But at the end of the day I am not a pro rider so what do I know ....

Bruce372 wrote:

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over...

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over the front brake.

Bruce372 wrote:

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over...

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over the front brake.

Downunder wrote:

You do know air forks also have oil damping, can still blow seals and leak just like in you're spring fork scenario, right?

Bruce372 wrote:

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over...

Yeah, but you could argue a spring fork might have lost a seal and been unridable with a loss of damping, or fork oil splattered over the front brake.

Downunder wrote:

You do know air forks also have oil damping, can still blow seals and leak just like in you're spring fork scenario, right?

slipdog wrote:

Bruce is very well versed with both spring and air forks. He was making the point that it's possible a spring fork could also fail and...

Bruce is very well versed with both spring and air forks. He was making the point that it's possible a spring fork could also fail and cause a rider to lose a sure win just the same as an air fork can.

gpracer36 wrote:

to those who say we are missing the point, actually I would say you are. Facts are facts. KR led moto one and should have won...

to those who say we are missing the point, actually I would say you are. Facts are facts.

KR led moto one and should have won. His "air fork" lost pressure, regardless of why, and cost him the race, period. At this level the idea is to eliminate as many "failures" as possible in the garage. This is everything from moose tubes to safety wiring the steering stem nut. You do not run anything that you knowingly can cost you a race if possible. So, given the choice between air and springs, I would think springs will be less likely to fail than air. So, as a race team manager I would push for running springs. The likelihood of failure is less than air, obviously.


This is my point, regardless of the why or how much the part cost. Who cares. That part may end up costing thousands and thousands.

gpracer36 wrote:

to those who say we are missing the point, actually I would say you are. Facts are facts. KR led moto one and should have won...

to those who say we are missing the point, actually I would say you are. Facts are facts.

KR led moto one and should have won. His "air fork" lost pressure, regardless of why, and cost him the race, period. At this level the idea is to eliminate as many "failures" as possible in the garage. This is everything from moose tubes to safety wiring the steering stem nut. You do not run anything that you knowingly can cost you a race if possible. So, given the choice between air and springs, I would think springs will be less likely to fail than air. So, as a race team manager I would push for running springs. The likelihood of failure is less than air, obviously.


This is my point, regardless of the why or how much the part cost. Who cares. That part may end up costing thousands and thousands.

ML512 wrote:

Arguably, at a certain extent performance does go over reliability (take in case all of the modified engines in the field)... Kenny had Showa spring forks...

Arguably, at a certain extent performance does go over reliability (take in case all of the modified engines in the field)... Kenny had Showa spring forks for the later half of outdoors last year and wanted to switch to KYB's PSF1 for this year...

Star Racing riders have a choice... For SX 4 out of 5 rider chose air, for outdoors 3 out of 5 riders chose air.

Geico Honda had a large stock of Showa twin-chamber spring forks and chose to purchase a full batch of KYB PSF1 forks before the 2015 season.

At Honda, the riders have a choice and guess what they're all running... PSF1...

philG wrote:

Good journalism.. just wondering what kind of data that gives them

OW38B wrote:

Seems it lets them know when the forks go flat...........