Supercross, is it boring now?

Flatliner
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3/21/2016 3:01pm
I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks dropping 450's would change anything. The results , and the way riders have been finishing would be the same no matter what they were riding.
Insider347
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3/21/2016 3:02pm
Get rid of the 450's in pro racing.
That's the answer.
Zachintosh
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3/21/2016 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2016 3:17pm
Choosing alternate lines (inside or outside) will once again be a part of racing if 450s went away. It seems all the top 450 riders can clear anything from the shortest run up. Rarely do 450 riders need to carry momentum around the outside of a corner in SX because the bikes have so much torque. If you can still complete the obstacle from the inside, why go wide?
twizzler
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3/21/2016 3:17pm
Bikes are too good, riders are too good which limits the track designs in the footprint of the stadiums. Every rider in the night show jumps all the jumps and cleans all of the sections. Not many screw ups that cost multiple seconds anymore. Blow the corner and they still jump the triple or finish line. That didn't happen in the 80's and 90's and early 2000's. Back then screw ups cost seconds, today it cost tenths of a second. Since screw ups may not occur by the leaders then nobody else that does screw up tenths of second is ever going to catch them, it turns it into a follow the leader race most races.

The Shop

JW381
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3/21/2016 3:21pm
kawi448 wrote:
I find it funny that everyone here hates a rider like Jason Lawrence when he is exactly the opposite of what you guys dont like, he...
I find it funny that everyone here hates a rider like Jason Lawrence when he is exactly the opposite of what you guys dont like, he was colorful and had a real fun style to watch.

But the grumpy old men of this pathetic forum will bitch no matter what situation it is. Bitch and whine and moan, yet they have the audacity to pretend how tough you all are. LOL
I love me some JLaw.

That being said, my problem with Supercross has nothing to do with Dungey. I'm not his biggest fan, but it's stupid to say it's boring just because he's winning a lot.
JW381
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3/21/2016 3:24pm
Bronwyn and I were talking about it, the sport is starting to resemble other forms of auto racing almost too much. The top bikes are all really, really good and take a bit of the skill out of racing. But all the other technology like GPS data is really taking any of the human element out of it. Guys are being programmed (slight pun intended) to attack a track in one way and one way only. And the uninspired tracks further add to this mentality.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I remember when the racing product seemed far more entertaining than it does now.
disbanded
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3/21/2016 3:25pm
I believe boring racing can be fixed through track designs
Phillip_Lamb
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3/21/2016 3:35pm
2stroked wrote:
Before all the keyboard warriors go apesh!t and throw temper tantrums and smear sh!t on their monitors, hear (read) me out. Without sounding like a cranky...
Before all the keyboard warriors go apesh!t and throw temper tantrums and smear sh!t on their monitors, hear (read) me out.

Without sounding like a cranky old man, what happened to supercross? Is it still an exciting sport? YES, 100% positive yes. However the last few seasons, especially this one, has left me feeling let down. I know I'm not the only one. All my bench racing buddies agree to differing degrees.

For lack of a better word its just become, well, bland.

We all know that watching the Dunge right now is watching history unfold. Thats fantastic and Ive been personally rooting for the guy since he was yellow bikes. Always admired his work ethic and training. Always admired his clean cut looks, personality, and the way he handles himself. Class act.

So its the Dungey era. five seconds ago it was the Villopoto era. There were a lot of people saying a lot of the same things about the sport when Villopoto was dominating too. Which leads me to think of that Who song lyric "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Where is the excitement? Where is the drama? Where are the rivalries? Where's the bad blood? I mean, WHERE'S THE RACING?

Look Supercross and motocross were never about being name brand image squeeky clean sports. From the 80's, 90's, and 2000's we had some AMAZING and damn good racing. On any given night there was 10 guys that could challenge to win. Even during the King's reign he was challenged quite often, with the exception of the miracle '96 season which to this day still amazes me.

Todays bikes, Today's riders, Today's image of the sport has become this weird, pale, bland, and tasteless image of its self. Podium interviews suck. Want me to give you a podium interview? Here goes"

"that was an amazing race tonight. You had a good battle going with "X", and you were able to pull out with a great pass. Can you tell us how you set that up?"

"Thanks Jenny!! Ya my Rockstar/Monster/Redbull/KTM/Husqvarna/Kawasaki/Suzuki/Yamaha/MuscleMilk/Honda got me off to a great start thanks to my Dunlop/Pirelli's and Id like to thank all our sponsors *insert awkward rattlecan BS pre-rehearsed roll call*"

"oh and Chevrolet/Tundra/Ford of Escondido/San Diego/Thousand Oaks/Bellview bla bla bla!"


Really man? Its old. Its worn out. Ms. Supercross even emulates Dianna's friggin eye wink BS. Tonight she tilted her head to side.

Its become a pre-hearsed, practiced, machine. Devoid of human emotion. Devoid of enthusiasm. Devoid of substance. Devoid of character enhancement, development, and personality. Know why Jeremy McGrath was the king of supercross? 50% of what made him King was his attitude. His Charisma. His charm. He had that ability to say it how it was, keep it real, and maintain amazing sponsor relationships while keeping true to being like the guy we grew up racing against.

Even the James Stewart, Chad Reed, Ricky Carmichael era had meaningful substance.

Today's sport sucks. I dont see it getting any better moving forward. Its moving in a direction towards nascar/indy car/F1. A burned out re-enactment of professional actors playing the same story thats already been told. Because they have been groomed to be that way from the start for fear of breaking a few eggs, and hurting someone's feelings which could result in a loss of a sponsor.

by the way, the 450 heats and semi's are a friggin joke!! How many gates are empty? Tell ya what take a shot for each gate thats empty and you'll be passed out drunk before the mains.

/in before you're old, you can't keep up with the times, this is the only way to keep the sport alive, this is where the money is, quit your complaining supercross is at least live (sort of), what else do you want, I wasn't alive or didn't watch the sport prior to 2010.
there is a few issues with your statements

1. Even the James Stewart, Chad Reed, Ricky Carmichael era had meaningful substance.

only one year of one season did this pan out. 2006. out side of that RC won every year he competed aside from 99 and 00 when the King was still on point. The years that reed and stewart won titles they dominated. Reed dominated 04 and 08, stewart dominated 07 and 09.

2.Look Supercross and motocross were never about being name brand image squeeky clean sports. From the 80's, 90's, and 2000's we had some AMAZING and damn good racing. On any given night there was 10 guys that could challenge to win. Even during the King's reign he was challenged quite often, with the exception of the miracle '96 season which to this day still amazes me.

In the 80's the sport didnt have as much media exposure such as twitter and facebook, so riders back in the 80's and 90's were able to fly under the radar and get away with stuff. also in the last 10-15 years riders have gotten away from riding aggresive or dirty (a la Hannah style).
also news flash, in this season, there are 13 riders who have won a title or races. why arent they all winning? because there is only one spot on top and injuries have plagued many of the guys, Weimer has been hurt, ticle got hurt, canard hasnt had an injury free year since 2010! stewart hasnt been injury free since what seems like ever.

also the KING, was challenged for a few wins, but no one was stopping him. in fact he's the guy who started this whole domination fire sale. Mcgrath, Carmichael, Villo and Dungey all have done the same thing, they have elevated themselves above everyone else to the point where they win the most races and stay consistent.

the difference from the 90's to any other decade was the 90's was a party. guys didnt train as hard as they do now nor as hard as guys in the 80's. Go back and watch the Fox terrafirma videos, everyone was out riding hills and hanging out in parties. Mcgrath dominated on talent, which is why he never duplicated his success in outdoors until 95 when he did put in the work and destroyed

Crush
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3/21/2016 3:42pm
Flatliner wrote:
I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks dropping 450's would change anything. The results , and the way riders have been finishing would be the same...
I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks dropping 450's would change anything. The results , and the way riders have been finishing would be the same no matter what they were riding.
You been paying attention to how many good 250f races there has been since they were introduced?!
Phillip_Lamb
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3/21/2016 4:22pm
Flatliner wrote:
I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks dropping 450's would change anything. The results , and the way riders have been finishing would be the same...
I honestly don't understand how anyone thinks dropping 450's would change anything. The results , and the way riders have been finishing would be the same no matter what they were riding.
Crush wrote:
You been paying attention to how many good 250f races there has been since they were introduced?!
have you noticed that the 250 class is NOT made up of seasoned vets. nor are all the good riders in the same series.

Dungey has been racing and winning since 2007. Reed and stewart 2002, millsaps, grant 2004. there are about 15 guys who have won not only races but also titles. you have a very talented pool of riders who know how to win races and win titles. these guys dont make rookie mistakes (as much) like the 250 class. they have something 250 guys dont=experience.

additionally the 250 class is watered down by having two series. if the series had Jmart, mookie, bowers plessinger davalos, hill, a mart, tonus, craig, savatgy, Webb, something magical happens: suddenly there is only one podium available and not two and now the room at the top just got smaller.

suddenly all these guys who've scored podiums are now getting 5ths and 6ths and etc.


there is also the issue of the 450 being a bike that everyone kind of has setup the same. if you read every test of a factory 450 they all say the same thing: the power is broad and smooth. its an open class bike that cant be ridden really aggresive due to weight and power. this also lends to the idea that racing was better in the 90's. everyone was on a 250 two stroke, these bikes varied in outputs and they had low weight that could be tossed around more, diving to the inside was easier and the less predictable engine's produced more mistakes.
user760a
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3/21/2016 5:05pm
disbanded wrote:
I believe boring racing can be fixed through track designs
I just don't care about bikes going around and around in a stadium. It's the nascar oval of motorcycle racing. Give me a real outdoor track that I can relate to, that has a unique "personality".

another good point that someone made is that the RC/ Stewart etc battles during the RC period (and RC whooping ass in a superhuman way in general) were such a brilliant high point, everything since has seemed a bit less thrilling
vschaik141
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3/21/2016 7:24pm
is it really that bad???... cmon guys
Hcallz5
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3/21/2016 8:26pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2016 8:27pm
A foot race from the holeshot line back to the gate, start your bike up and go. Pushing and tripping is encouraged.

Also bring back Bud Light as a sponsor.
teggers
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3/22/2016 1:19am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2016 1:26am
It was kind of sad:...me and MOM. 93 years old....she has been a Mx fan since '72

She calls out the shit tracks, calls out the bs interviews. Over the last few years, she has become less interested in the entire broadcast.
Clearly, SX is losing her - and me.

Thank god the east coast gives us so many other options for changing the channels. The west coast only gives us basketball options.

At one point after thanking the tires and the team and the exhaust and the grips and the pegs and the trainer and the doctor and the valve cap manufacturer and the gas and the drink and the clothing and making sure the can was in the right direction....( seriously it cracks us up when someone throws a cap on the riders head and make sure that the drink is pointed in the right direction it's just disgusting) .she yells out "Don't forget to thank Obama" I was stunned. Just how shitty does this have to get?

It does suck. I went A2 this year. I'll not go to another SX the way it is.

Imagine if the top 5 riders went on strike.

I wonder what Roger thinks of this?
3/22/2016 3:43am
I think this is a decent example of what a lot of people have posted about in this thread. Look at how hard everyone has to work to deal with the conditions, to find traction, to get over certain obstacles - and look at the difference it makes when some riders can and can't. Listen to the commentators (David Bailey) talk about the technical aspect constantly because it is a relevant topic that's having a direct impact on the racing. I can't remember watching a modern SX like this recently.

Main starts at 27:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gbVfSDMBIU

It doesn't mean every 2 stroke season was super exciting or memorable. But I think that the actual racing and technicality of piloting the motorcycle round the track did have something extra that has been lost today. Problem now is that there's no way of fixing it.
2smokRRR
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3/22/2016 3:43am
Its not the machinery or starts etc..its flamboyant big sack riders of old that sell tickets and make it exciting to watch...dungey is boring as fuck to watch..thats why hes the diesel...bring back james jumping that ridiculous Daytona wall jump in 11 or racing rc or cr or rv2.. everyone is calling stacked but its not..yeah their big names of the 250 class but there riding like shit..
crfby
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3/22/2016 8:06am
Yes it is boring. Get rid of heat races and have several mains. 450s are to powerful ( case in point Stewart's crash a few feet exiting corner and about killed himself with the violent exit speed). We know that but if you dump them some tops guys walk away. There not going back to 250s . just have more mains each night. Then there is is a chance of a good race each night . so simple, who would complain about 3 points paying races each night for each class.
ns503
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3/22/2016 8:27am
The ol' one on one dash for cash is usually pretty exciting at an AX race....
h&m_cycle
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3/22/2016 8:52am
Pro Racing Starts on May 21, 2016...

The Circus is leaving Vegas at 1:00 AM. May 8, 2016...
Jarid332
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Fantasy
3/22/2016 8:56am
As long as Cole Seely is out there racing it's never boring.
Dezerted
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3/22/2016 9:08am
I wouldn't say boring but imho the racing is no where near as exciting as it was in the past and a change in point structure isn't going to change that
Crash82
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3/22/2016 9:12am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/03/20/128713/s1200_image.jpg[/img] Why does this picture make me feel uncomfortable?


Why does this picture make me feel uncomfortable?
They look like live human bobblehead dolls! Supercross needs 125cc 2 strokes and/or other classes to follow, it needs works bikes.That being said I thought watching Mookie win was pretty exciting, you can see his brothers style in his riding, I think that is a blessing, Mookie is good for the sport.
dsmith
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Fantasy
3/22/2016 9:18am
if riders would do the salsa after a win would be nice......and the announcers getting really hyper would help....
NV825
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3/22/2016 9:19am
crfby wrote:
Yes it is boring. Get rid of heat races and have several mains. 450s are to powerful ( case in point Stewart's crash a few feet...
Yes it is boring. Get rid of heat races and have several mains. 450s are to powerful ( case in point Stewart's crash a few feet exiting corner and about killed himself with the violent exit speed). We know that but if you dump them some tops guys walk away. There not going back to 250s . just have more mains each night. Then there is is a chance of a good race each night . so simple, who would complain about 3 points paying races each night for each class.
My thoughts exactly. More "main events" gives us a better chance for close racing. I want to see ALL the best riders in the world race each other for more than just once a night.
Silliker269
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3/22/2016 10:09am
Have to agree , the 450's should go the way of the 500 , gonzo !!
JW381
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3/22/2016 10:18am
ns503 wrote:
The ol' one on one dash for cash is usually pretty exciting at an AX race....
Yup. And the hot lap qualifying at Endurocross is a ton of fun too.
Ted722
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3/22/2016 10:23am
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/03/20/128713/s1200_image.jpg[/img] Why does this picture make me feel uncomfortable?


Why does this picture make me feel uncomfortable?
Maybe you didn't like Motocrossed?



Question
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3/23/2016 5:46pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 5:48pm
I think it is still pretty exciting whereas the SX season is getting in its last third. Well I am not a kid anymore but I find it as exciting as 20 years ago in 2 stroke. I am not a specialist in track design either and I believe they tend to, like in MXGP, makes it a little bit less selective (no quad, massive rythm sections only 2 or 4 riders pass) to balance the competition and makes it tighter. I also even like walls if it is possible to do something different, like 3 3 wall 3 3 3 instead of the standard dribbling.

Things to watch from next week end:
Will Webb keeps his title ? Can Craig challenge him ? (BTW: what happened to Craig at the first round??? - with a podium at A1 he would be leading!)
Who will win the East ? Can Mookie keeps the momentum ? Will Hill, Davalos or Martin go on a streak ?
Who will win against Dungey? Roczen? Anderson? Musquin? Canard? Seely? Reed? Tomac?
Can someone predict the top 10 in 450 or the top 5 in 250 ? Almost impossible ! Dungey is a bit above the field but unless you are butt hurt & not a fan of him, this championship is really interesting.

Things to improve: a slightly better coverage (and flagging as my previous post), 2 weeks in a row that we do not see what happened to the leaders in the last lap with Dungey & Musquin tip overs.




3/23/2016 6:31pm
Boring? I dont even watch.

Racing machines should sound and smell as such.
Trail riders buy 4 strokes.
The classes should be 150 2 stroke stock engines...and 300 Open mod 2 stroke.
Works bike type if you will.
Allow custom builders and Boutique brands.
Service Honda 300, TM, Fantic
Live attendees get a free high on leaded race fuel and Castor fumes.

The show is too short.

Get rid of start devices. Everyone has one and all do the same damn thing.

Cookie cutter tracks are lame. Super minis can do all the obstacles.

Add a crowd funded dash for cash. 3 laps winner takes all anything goes dogfight ala Arenacross in the Budman/Denny days.

Wanna see a race? Do the above with a bunch of broke dudes.


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