Dirt bike riding - getting more popular? got stats?

Toste
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Toste 10/22/2013 3:36pm
10/22/2013 3:36pm
CamP wrote:
Rich kids have rich parents. Rich parents want their kids to play golf.
Toste wrote:
^^This.
Sloaner104 wrote:
I get free golf every year by painting the club house and other odds and ends around the course my son was practically born with a...
I get free golf every year by painting the club house and other odds and ends around the course my son was practically born with a club my point being he doesn't like golf he likes dirtbikes like his pop's and the only reason he knows about bikes is me. None of his neighborhood buddies know dirtbikes most kids start racing because their fathers introduce it. The more we dwindle away = less kids riding !
I'm not sure I'm following your point.

I agreed with CamP because it's my experience that wealthy people tend to have tastes that (in their view, at least) are too sophisticated and sensible for a pastime like riding dirt bikes.
Titan1
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Titan1 10/22/2013 3:39pm
10/22/2013 3:39pm
Titan1 wrote:
I think moto is falling because its hard...all the entitled kids these days don't want to do anything that is hard, and they don't want to...
I think moto is falling because its hard...all the entitled kids these days don't want to do anything that is hard, and they don't want to lose at anything either...

They'd rather play MX vs ATV unhooked (or whatever its called) than put in the time effort it takes to win. And if they can't win, they don't want to play.
Barrett57 wrote:
Do you realize just how old you sound?
LOL
RMT
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RMT 10/22/2013 3:43pm
10/22/2013 3:43pm
Zaugg wrote:
Unless you look at karting. Way cheaper to get into but then again...no doubles. haha

(...and I'm not talking about K1 type karting either.)
If I wanted to get my 10 year old into karting, it would not be cheap. Going new, an Italian chassis is over $3000. The fast kids are convinced that they can only get 3-4 races on them before they are slower. A Rotax engine is $3500, but lets say I get a deal and pay $2800. They are sealed, so I have to buy 4-5 of them to find the fastest one. Tires are $180+ a set and I will need a new set for every race. Helmet is about the same as MX and gear also, so its a wash. How much is a new KX 85? I dont even know, but if its less than $6000, Im not sure how karting is any cheaper. The thing about karting is that once you get the kart, your just starting to spend money. High dollar tuners and pitting in the "tent" at big races will run you over $2,000 a weekend. Add in tires and other costs, you will easily spend $3500-$4000 at a big IKF Regional or SKUSA race out West. Just the entry fee for the Gatorz races is $1,000 a race. Yes, you get a set of tires and some oil/fuel, but still have to pay big money for your pit stall or like I said earlier, even more to be in one of the better teams tents. But what is cooler than electric glass doors opening up for you as you come and go to the tent. Karting at everything except local, just learning races is out of hand. I cant think of the last time I have been to even a Regional race where every kid on the grid didnt have a $1,000 helmet with $1500+ paint job on it. Graphic kits for the karts are running $400 a set for the CRG's. Dads dont even push the kart to the grid, the hired help does. The pits look like a F1 race. Semis with tents just like the factory MX rigs but they are all enclosed. Nobody talks to anyone else, you just hang out in your little cocoon of a pit area. They even cater in food for each team. Its way worse than MX.

Im not pointing this directly at you, as you probably know all of this, but karting is just as blown out of proportion as everything else.
vanillaice782 10/22/2013 3:54pm
10/22/2013 3:54pm
I guess it isn't the best indicator because the race is halfway across the country but I raced a LL's qualifier in southern California this year and we were done by 2 O'clock in the afternoon. It wasn't that long ago that we had to worry about getting all the racing in before the sun went down.

The Shop

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Sloaner104 10/22/2013 3:55pm
10/22/2013 3:55pm
Toste wrote:
^^This.
Sloaner104 wrote:
I get free golf every year by painting the club house and other odds and ends around the course my son was practically born with a...
I get free golf every year by painting the club house and other odds and ends around the course my son was practically born with a club my point being he doesn't like golf he likes dirtbikes like his pop's and the only reason he knows about bikes is me. None of his neighborhood buddies know dirtbikes most kids start racing because their fathers introduce it. The more we dwindle away = less kids riding !
CamP wrote:
Are you rich?
Far from it I live pay check to pay check I shoulda been specific it helps to have money but I'd bet on a poor kid with heart that can ride over a rich kid any day .
Zaugg
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Zaugg 10/22/2013 4:04pm
10/22/2013 4:04pm
Zaugg wrote:
Unless you look at karting. Way cheaper to get into but then again...no doubles. haha

(...and I'm not talking about K1 type karting either.)
RMT wrote:
If I wanted to get my 10 year old into karting, it would not be cheap. Going new, an Italian chassis is over $3000. The fast...
If I wanted to get my 10 year old into karting, it would not be cheap. Going new, an Italian chassis is over $3000. The fast kids are convinced that they can only get 3-4 races on them before they are slower. A Rotax engine is $3500, but lets say I get a deal and pay $2800. They are sealed, so I have to buy 4-5 of them to find the fastest one. Tires are $180+ a set and I will need a new set for every race. Helmet is about the same as MX and gear also, so its a wash. How much is a new KX 85? I dont even know, but if its less than $6000, Im not sure how karting is any cheaper. The thing about karting is that once you get the kart, your just starting to spend money. High dollar tuners and pitting in the "tent" at big races will run you over $2,000 a weekend. Add in tires and other costs, you will easily spend $3500-$4000 at a big IKF Regional or SKUSA race out West. Just the entry fee for the Gatorz races is $1,000 a race. Yes, you get a set of tires and some oil/fuel, but still have to pay big money for your pit stall or like I said earlier, even more to be in one of the better teams tents. But what is cooler than electric glass doors opening up for you as you come and go to the tent. Karting at everything except local, just learning races is out of hand. I cant think of the last time I have been to even a Regional race where every kid on the grid didnt have a $1,000 helmet with $1500+ paint job on it. Graphic kits for the karts are running $400 a set for the CRG's. Dads dont even push the kart to the grid, the hired help does. The pits look like a F1 race. Semis with tents just like the factory MX rigs but they are all enclosed. Nobody talks to anyone else, you just hang out in your little cocoon of a pit area. They even cater in food for each team. Its way worse than MX.

Im not pointing this directly at you, as you probably know all of this, but karting is just as blown out of proportion as everything else.
Point taken...I wan't looking at it from the highly competitive POV but you're right. Ridiculous just like MX. haha
CaryPT
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CaryPT 10/22/2013 4:32pm
10/22/2013 4:32pm
Hey guys. Here is great idea for growing the motocross/supercross sport that we love so much.

Entice the racers with the opportunity to make some REAL MONEY. I've been talking about this on another thread, but why would I shoot for being a pro racer when I know that only 20 racers really make a living at it??? Ridiculous!

The promoters are getting rich at supercross while the racers who may have a shot at it get squat!

No $ means no racers and no growth.

Everyone (except the promoters who are making $) in the industry -including sponsors- need to step up and insist that the pro purse as all motocross and supercross races increase substantially. Then you will see EVERYONE from the local track owners, dealerships, equipment companies etc make more money too.

seriously!

cary
neysbo
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neysbo 10/22/2013 4:44pm
10/22/2013 4:44pm
What I see at the local tracks in Illinois is that rider turnout is down probably 20 - 25 percent from 5 years ago. The big thing I see is that the youth classes are way down. My son used to have 20 -25 riders on the gate in 50's and 65's and now those classes have 10 if lucky.

I know people dont all agree but the economy going back to like 2006 has taken a toll on motocross and dirt bikes. I would say in that time the costs to do dirt biking or race have pretty much doubled. Look at what a KTM 50 cost in 2006 and than look now. On top of bike costs all other costs have gone way up. Yet for most people in the dirt bike crowd there wages have barley gone up , most people are lucky to get a raise yet alone keep there job.
40Plus_922mx
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40Plus_922mx 10/22/2013 6:46pm
10/22/2013 6:46pm
Here are the stats.
Pre 2008 more new bike sales. 2013 more stolen bikes.
Probably rappers.
-LoL. Couldn't resist.
Bigoldbeef 10/22/2013 7:17pm
10/22/2013 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2013 7:18pm
Here in Ohio it seems like everybody has a Polaris Rzr, and those things are not cheap at all. The top of the line 1000 will run you 20k+ from the dealer.

My buddy races Gncc's with them after he ruined his right wrist riding moto. His "race" buggy has a built elba engine and he has to put a new $250 carbon fiber belt on it every race. What a money pit.

He doesn't even finish half of the gncc's he enters due to mechanicals or crashing. Here he is at the Powerline Gncc that happened two weekends ago.

https://youtu.be/NmHI7y2Mq6A
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 10/22/2013 7:29pm
10/22/2013 7:29pm
Bigoldbeef wrote:
Here in Ohio it seems like everybody has a Polaris Rzr, and those things are not cheap at all. The top of the line 1000 will...
Here in Ohio it seems like everybody has a Polaris Rzr, and those things are not cheap at all. The top of the line 1000 will run you 20k+ from the dealer.

My buddy races Gncc's with them after he ruined his right wrist riding moto. His "race" buggy has a built elba engine and he has to put a new $250 carbon fiber belt on it every race. What a money pit.

He doesn't even finish half of the gncc's he enters due to mechanicals or crashing. Here he is at the Powerline Gncc that happened two weekends ago.

https://youtu.be/NmHI7y2Mq6A
I must admit...that does look fun. Not as fun as moto, but still fun
RMT
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RMT 10/22/2013 7:53pm
10/22/2013 7:53pm
Bigoldbeef wrote:
Here in Ohio it seems like everybody has a Polaris Rzr, and those things are not cheap at all. The top of the line 1000 will...
Here in Ohio it seems like everybody has a Polaris Rzr, and those things are not cheap at all. The top of the line 1000 will run you 20k+ from the dealer.

My buddy races Gncc's with them after he ruined his right wrist riding moto. His "race" buggy has a built elba engine and he has to put a new $250 carbon fiber belt on it every race. What a money pit.

He doesn't even finish half of the gncc's he enters due to mechanicals or crashing. Here he is at the Powerline Gncc that happened two weekends ago.

https://youtu.be/NmHI7y2Mq6A
It is fun but at the same time it's not a motorcycle. I did a few BITD races and you take a beating for sure. You just wish you could stand up sometimes. Lol. People are spending big money on them and they leave the dealership with an avg. of $3500 of accessories. With the latest and greatest, that's around $27-30k out the door! This is why your local dealer is so big into these now. They are one of the few things that they make decent money selling. The industry does not report to the MIC so numbers are fuzzy, but we estimate the sales numbers over 200,000 a year.

I think they are selling because anybody can jump in one and floor it like the video shows. Most guys won't do that on a bike or ATV. You also can throw mama and the kids in the beast and crash their brains out with you. If you go to the Dunes next weekend, you will see thousands of them with turbos and all kind of cash thrown at them out ripping it up. It's funny when the two most profitable brands in a current multi line dealership are Polaris and CanAm/SeaDoo/SkiDoo aka BRP. Things have really changed since 2006 for the Japanese OEM's. I'm afraid that in some areas of the Powersports world, they are falling so far behind, they are unlikely to catch up. Look at PWC, Yamaha just introduced a new ski with more HP, but also with a price tag over $14k. Kawasaki did the same but it retails for $18k. In contrast, BRP/ SeaDoo launched a new ski that will start at $4999. Which one do you think will sell?
Rdubs19
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Rdubs19 3/15/2016 8:49pm
3/15/2016 8:49pm
Side by sides and hopped up late model ATVs are absolutely everywhere. And of course the side by sides are all hopped up as well, and these vehicles are towed around by new, lifted trucks with rims. Many owners also seem to talk about owning boats. The toys costs anywhere from 8 or 9 grand for a bone stock big bore ATV (which they all are) to well north of 20,000 for a side by side, and the trucks cost anywhere from mid 40s to high 60s after mods. Again, this stuff is absolutely everywhere. And I live in a poor ass part of the country. I have no clue how people are affording it. I know the government pays for it when it's farmers, but not many people are farmers. I'm single and make just shy of 70k per year, and could never, ever, ever pay for that stuff. And that's a very high salary where I live, hugely above average. I have no idea how such a huge number of people afford those things, or if they actually can afford them. No clue. And I really don't know why they spend all that money on what is honestly pretty lame. I mean, just doing donuts in the mud, or going and Billy Bob'n it around the pasture?? Is that really worth the dough these folks shell out? Especially when moto is a million times the fun, thrill and reward, and is an actual, real athletic sport, for a fraction of the cost. Maybe because moto takes work, and discipline. You don't just hop on (or in, as with a SxS), floor it and away you go. Big whoop. But the work and the difficulty are exactly why it's so much better.
twizzler
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twizzler 3/15/2016 9:38pm
3/15/2016 9:38pm
I'll compare mx to BMX. Back in the early- mid 80's BMX was very popular. BMX bikes back then cost $200-$500. Today BMX is not popular but bikes still cost the same as back then. Kids just aren't into action sports, there are too many other things that grab their attention. I rarely even see kids riding bikes whereas when I was a kid the nieghborhood had bike riding kids all over. Parents think moto is too expensive, but then they spend their money on cell phones, iPads, 60" HD TV's and $50k pick up trucks. That's why they can't afford moto. Their money is spent on other things but it doesn't matter because junior would rather sit and play with his cell phone all day.
zehn
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zehn 3/15/2016 10:10pm
3/15/2016 10:10pm
Rdubs19 wrote:
Side by sides and hopped up late model ATVs are absolutely everywhere. And of course the side by sides are all hopped up as well, and...
Side by sides and hopped up late model ATVs are absolutely everywhere. And of course the side by sides are all hopped up as well, and these vehicles are towed around by new, lifted trucks with rims. Many owners also seem to talk about owning boats. The toys costs anywhere from 8 or 9 grand for a bone stock big bore ATV (which they all are) to well north of 20,000 for a side by side, and the trucks cost anywhere from mid 40s to high 60s after mods. Again, this stuff is absolutely everywhere. And I live in a poor ass part of the country. I have no clue how people are affording it. I know the government pays for it when it's farmers, but not many people are farmers. I'm single and make just shy of 70k per year, and could never, ever, ever pay for that stuff. And that's a very high salary where I live, hugely above average. I have no idea how such a huge number of people afford those things, or if they actually can afford them. No clue. And I really don't know why they spend all that money on what is honestly pretty lame. I mean, just doing donuts in the mud, or going and Billy Bob'n it around the pasture?? Is that really worth the dough these folks shell out? Especially when moto is a million times the fun, thrill and reward, and is an actual, real athletic sport, for a fraction of the cost. Maybe because moto takes work, and discipline. You don't just hop on (or in, as with a SxS), floor it and away you go. Big whoop. But the work and the difficulty are exactly why it's so much better.
Loans are very easy to get nowadays
Moto810
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Moto810 3/15/2016 10:26pm
3/15/2016 10:26pm
If bike sales have declined and they have over the past 10 years. Then the sport is not growing! Now the people who run pro racing will tell you that because of the TV coverage that shows the sport is growing and they clearly do not understand what growing the sport means to average people.

Example: Freestyle motocross (tricks) made it on TV also right? Well how many riders do freestyle? Just because it is on TV does not mean it is growing! Nascar has big TV ratings yet is that growing the sport of car racing? I am guessing it does not.

If the top people who lead the sport want to help they might consider trying something different because what they have been doing is not working as far as getting more people into the sport.
roninho
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roninho 3/16/2016 2:57am
3/16/2016 2:57am
Titan1 wrote:
Seems like all the dealerships around here are only interested in selling UTV's and ATV's...(with the exception of KTM dealers). I think dirt bike riding is...
Seems like all the dealerships around here are only interested in selling UTV's and ATV's...(with the exception of KTM dealers).

I think dirt bike riding is shrinking while UTV And ATV's are expanding...
Not to be a smartass but i would imagine dealers are more then happy to sell mx bikes, but a lack of customer interest that makes them look into selling other equipment that does have a demand.
rbabb524
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rbabb524 3/16/2016 9:11am
3/16/2016 9:11am
neysbo wrote:
What I see at the local tracks in Illinois is that rider turnout is down probably 20 - 25 percent from 5 years ago. The big...
What I see at the local tracks in Illinois is that rider turnout is down probably 20 - 25 percent from 5 years ago. The big thing I see is that the youth classes are way down. My son used to have 20 -25 riders on the gate in 50's and 65's and now those classes have 10 if lucky.

I know people dont all agree but the economy going back to like 2006 has taken a toll on motocross and dirt bikes. I would say in that time the costs to do dirt biking or race have pretty much doubled. Look at what a KTM 50 cost in 2006 and than look now. On top of bike costs all other costs have gone way up. Yet for most people in the dirt bike crowd there wages have barley gone up , most people are lucky to get a raise yet alone keep there job.
I think another big thing with minis is parents don't want there kids getting hurt. Let's face it motocross is dangerous. Even mainstream sports like football are experiencing decreasing numbers in peewees because parents don't want them playing something dangerous.

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Moto810
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Moto810 3/16/2016 10:19am
3/16/2016 10:19am
It is funny because most people on this board clearly can tell you the reasons why the sport of motocross is in decline yet the top people who make the rules and run most of the racing still say the sport is growing bigger and better than ever! (because of themselves they point out)

How could we all be wrong? Costs have about doubled in 10 years! There are less bike sales! Tracks have less turnout for local races!

It is very simple! To make the sport grow you need more riders and to get more riders you need to bring the costs back down! Killing the two stroke was the biggest mistake the industry made! Increasing the race entry and gate fees is another mistake!

I know promotors that say "LL charges this much so we are going to charge more also" ! Who wants to pay $20 to come in to watch a local race for one day?
sdjeff
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sdjeff 3/16/2016 10:37am
3/16/2016 10:37am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 10:41am
Zaugg wrote:
Unless you look at karting. Way cheaper to get into but then again...no doubles. haha

(...and I'm not talking about K1 type karting either.)
That wasn't my experience at all with Karting. I was spending a minimum of $200 each time to the track just on tires. On raceday it was a set of tires for practice/qualifying and a set for the race ($400). There was no way to be competitive otherwise. The fast guys were putting a new set on every session. That doesn't include getting to the track, track fees, race fees, gas, and whatever else. I raced Supernats in Vegas and spent a couple thousand in 3 days. Engines need to be rebuilt more often. It's common to tweak a chassis in a crash. Everything about karting was more expensive for me than moto. When it comes to moto I can go months only spending money on gas and track fees.
WoodsRacer 3/16/2016 10:52am
3/16/2016 10:52am
The sport is in decline still? I beg to differ. Is it as good as it was pre 2009? No friggin way. Is it still in deline. No, its trending up.

Sales peaked around 2005 then started to decline with a huge drop in 2009. However since 2010 though motorcycle sales have been on a slow yet steady growth pattern. While no where near the 2005 numbers they are growing since the recession hit.

The big gains seen in offroad such as dual sport, enduro and trail bikes that KTM absolutely makes a killing on. Been to an offroad event lately? Not sure about around you guys but here in D23 offroad events are doing well, and its pretty much a sea of orange on the line. Golf claps to ktm to building a huge variety of bikes, not just MX and dual sport.

KTM just reported its fifth record year in a row, over 180,000 units sold. They don't have the 2015 annual report out yet so I haven't been able to look over KTMs 2015 sales by segment. However the 2014 KTM offroad motorcyles where up 9.3% vs 2013.

Here is some great data: (Which I haven't completely read, but need to)
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales…

So in simple summary, dirt bikes as a whole is growing as a sport, it just might not be reflected in MX alone. I can say in my experiance I have been seeing offroad growing the past 5 years around me and have gotten a lot of others to either start racing or just riding for fun on the weekends.

Its on an upward trend, and remember the best thing you can do to help it grow is to introduce others to riding in a positive light and help teach them how much fun these amazing 2 wheel toys can be!
temporarily_locked 3/16/2016 11:17am
3/16/2016 11:17am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 11:19am
I don't think mini sales tell much. Little kids aren't buying bikes, their parents are. And chances are the parent has or does own a bike. That's the only way kids can get into it.

The real deal here is youths and adults buying their first bike and getting into the sport. And IMO it's not doing so bad. The vet tracks are always full. I have more riding buddies now then i did when I was a kid. Most of these people are in their early 20s and have only been riding 1 to 2 years. They finally had enough money to get used bikes. Eventually they will be buying new bikes. A lot of these people have little to no interest in racing. Just practice days, desert, getting better and having fun
Julian
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Julian 3/16/2016 2:18pm
3/16/2016 2:18pm
looks like the writing on the wall is this:

Bring back the 70's

back then you could stroll through a store and actually find items made in the USA

Those people involved with making those products earned money

and they could buy bikes
smoothies862 3/16/2016 3:59pm
3/16/2016 3:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 4:07pm
i think its a mix. but a big factor is kids dont see other kids braaping thru fields anymore. yo uhave to find mx if you know what i mean. they do need to make a cheap 80-125. tracks need to make races longer.4 laps is silly. at least 6.
as far as money or cost.i see a lot of cash being thrown around at my tracks.rvs,5th wheels etc.i started like most,crappy bike,wal mart shirt with used gear i would buy from riders when they got new .it doesnt have to be a big $$ effort.. my girl is 8 and does traveling team gymnastics. our sport isnt that bad fellas,lol. drag racing is crazy bucks too. i think the tracks play a part in this. i hear people say,im not going there,its sx ,ill get landed on. make safe tracks without do or die jumps.4th gear double? cool make it a table.i think gp/scramble type races would boost numbers. 1 hr race mixed trails,mx,grass etc. i love it and hope others get to join in too.
bob567
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bob567 3/16/2016 4:25pm
3/16/2016 4:25pm
Just curious. How is the sport doing over seas? Specifically the amateur turnouts/bike sales. For our family it has nothing to do with the increased cost of bikes. It comes down to available time. My 2 sons (early/mid 20's) and myself all work 60-70hrs per week. The 40hr work week went out the window around 2000 here in america. It's hard to justify buying the latest bikes when we get 1-2 days off per month. Just wondering if this is the case elsewhere.
nascarnate326 3/16/2016 6:17pm
3/16/2016 6:17pm
I think off road bikes are making a huge come back. KTM is single handily responsible for this market with their dedication to all parts of motorcycling. I also think two strokes are coming back huge. If the other manufactures were to release them I know they would sell.

As for sales of little bikes, absolutely down quite a bit. Seems this is related to kids wanting to do a million other things. Cant afford a bike but have an iPhone 6s, laptop, PS4, etc. Last I looked used KX65's are cheap on CL.

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