To the guy dealing with herniated discs

The Rock
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HAIKU, HI, USA
Edited Date/Time 2/16/2016 9:02am
Over the holidays someone posted they were suffering from three herniated discs but I wasn't able to post at that time. Been on my mind ever since and I wanted to provide this information in the hope it will help this individual.

Please see if there is a Vax D table in your area. This miracle table saved me from having surgery. I still get periodic Vax D maintenance sessions every three to four months and use my inversion table daily.

Traction along with icing the affected area is the best non surgical way to address herniated discs in my experience. I also wear a back support wrap every day. eight years later. Best of luck!
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1/16/2013 2:54pm
This may work Rock....BUT I have had many a back issues as I started delivering soda when I was 14 and didn't stop til I was 23.....since then I have been a fabricator and I will say between those and riding I have a couple herniated disks as well as I seperated my hip flexor a few years back and had ciatica pain like you wouldn't believe. The best thing I did for it was core training at a sports therapy place until I could be KIND of normal again. Then, too soon I started abusing the crap out of it again and for the next 3-4 years every weekday after a weekend of riding I was in agony....I have finally overcome my problems non surgically....u wanna know how? I joined a gym and took it seriously....I don't moan and grunt at the gym....I do lots of cycling and core training. Torso and ab machines, Bosu balls etc....this is the solution to 99% of problems....
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
1/16/2013 3:06pm
I bought an inversion table out of desperation years ago and it did nothing for my disc issues. Core strengthening, stretching and staying well hydrated have proven to be the key for me, and I have tried everything over the last 15 years. If I'm strong, fit and flexible my back can handle almost anything.
1/16/2013 3:13pm
GrapeApe wrote:
I bought an inversion table out of desperation years ago and it did nothing for my disc issues. Core strengthening, stretching and staying well hydrated have...
I bought an inversion table out of desperation years ago and it did nothing for my disc issues. Core strengthening, stretching and staying well hydrated have proven to be the key for me, and I have tried everything over the last 15 years. If I'm strong, fit and flexible my back can handle almost anything.
I actually have an inversion table as well but it's very uncomfortable to use. One reason is 99% of people don't have identical length legs so you hang from one side....
LappedU
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Beverly Hills, CA, USA
1/16/2013 3:43pm
I used to have back problems too herniated disks, strengthened my core, guess what? no more back pain, It's as simple as that!

The Shop

ocscottie
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69092
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Redding, CA, USA
1/16/2013 4:09pm
I have always wanted to try one of those things, after sitting in this g'damned chair all day, it feels so good just to lay flat in bed, i can only imagine how good it would feel to hang and take ALL the pressure of my spine. Unfortunately i dont think i could do it now, my spine would prob fully separate at the 2 verts below my rods that are so thrashed Blink
braaap
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USA
1/16/2013 4:17pm
The system Rock mentioned is a better than a simple inversion table. That thing actually stretches you out more than can be done by simply using your body weight.

I have friends who have done this and had excellent results. It was their last ditch effort to avoid surgery. These guys are in pretty decent shape too; not some Super Hunky lookin' dude.
malachi177
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B.C., BC, CA
1/16/2013 4:20pm
This may work Rock....BUT I have had many a back issues as I started delivering soda when I was 14 and didn't stop til I was...
This may work Rock....BUT I have had many a back issues as I started delivering soda when I was 14 and didn't stop til I was 23.....since then I have been a fabricator and I will say between those and riding I have a couple herniated disks as well as I seperated my hip flexor a few years back and had ciatica pain like you wouldn't believe. The best thing I did for it was core training at a sports therapy place until I could be KIND of normal again. Then, too soon I started abusing the crap out of it again and for the next 3-4 years every weekday after a weekend of riding I was in agony....I have finally overcome my problems non surgically....u wanna know how? I joined a gym and took it seriously....I don't moan and grunt at the gym....I do lots of cycling and core training. Torso and ab machines, Bosu balls etc....this is the solution to 99% of problems....
Yep, I have one herniated disc. The biggest improvement I've had is with lighter weights, half bosu ball, and a bunch of other core excersises. Also a handful of yoga type stretches and lots of walking, cycling. After a moto ride my back is pretty sore, but it only lasts 2 days tops, and it's manageable. Not like the old "can't even wash my hands in the sink" crap. I'm a cabinet maker by trade and have to lift heavy stuff fairly often.
Choppy
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USA
1/16/2013 4:24pm
The Rock wrote:
Over the holidays someone posted they were suffering from three herniated discs but I wasn't able to post at that time. Been on my mind ever...
Over the holidays someone posted they were suffering from three herniated discs but I wasn't able to post at that time. Been on my mind ever since and I wanted to provide this information in the hope it will help this individual.

Please see if there is a Vax D table in your area. This miracle table saved me from having surgery. I still get periodic Vax D maintenance sessions every three to four months and use my inversion table daily.

Traction along with icing the affected area is the best non surgical way to address herniated discs in my experience. I also wear a back support wrap every day. eight years later. Best of luck!
If its the same guy I believe he already had a fusion done.
71Fish
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Ogden, UT, USA
2/2/2016 6:55am
braaap wrote:
The system Rock mentioned is a better than a simple inversion table. That thing actually stretches you out more than can be done by simply using...
The system Rock mentioned is a better than a simple inversion table. That thing actually stretches you out more than can be done by simply using your body weight.

I have friends who have done this and had excellent results. It was their last ditch effort to avoid surgery. These guys are in pretty decent shape too; not some Super Hunky lookin' dude.
I did this two years ago. It was expensive, but the decompression along with strengthening my core have completely eliminated my back pain. Before I couldn't even sneeze without taking a knee. I believe in it, but it may not be the right thing for everyone.
71Fish
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2/2/2016 7:53am
moto0852 wrote:
Lots of "bad science" on the VAX D http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/vaxd/vaxd.html

As had been said...get to the gym and work on your core.
I know some chiropractors and spine experts don't recommend them, and some patients had bad experiences. For me personally, it changed my life.
kaptkaos
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Miami, FL, USA
2/2/2016 9:09am
I suffered with lower and middle back issues as well. After getting serious and dedicated to exercising 4-5 days a week (not including riding MX or MTCool I no longer have issues. Overall, everything is better in life when you are in shape and strong. If we are not training our bodies, we are just slowly deteriorating.
crusher773
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Coweta, OK, USA
2/2/2016 9:31am
I did decompression several years ago and it worked great. I was still under 30 at that time and I did it as many times a week as he wanted me to and it did work.
Calihusky
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
2/2/2016 10:32am
I've dealt with a herniated L5 S1 disc for 7 years. Bad sciatica on the right side which resolved with physical therapy and core stuff. This past year it's been acting up on the left side now because I slacked off with the exercise and also picking up my 2 year old in awkward positions. I was thinking of getting a mountain or road bike just to get cardio. Has everyone found biking helpful for this? I wanted to use it as cross training for motocross and I plan on standing more than sitting because the bicycle seat looks like it could cause irritation.
IWreckALot
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Fort Worth, TX, USA
2/2/2016 11:00am
Calihusky wrote:
I've dealt with a herniated L5 S1 disc for 7 years. Bad sciatica on the right side which resolved with physical therapy and core stuff. This...
I've dealt with a herniated L5 S1 disc for 7 years. Bad sciatica on the right side which resolved with physical therapy and core stuff. This past year it's been acting up on the left side now because I slacked off with the exercise and also picking up my 2 year old in awkward positions. I was thinking of getting a mountain or road bike just to get cardio. Has everyone found biking helpful for this? I wanted to use it as cross training for motocross and I plan on standing more than sitting because the bicycle seat looks like it could cause irritation.
Bicycle's don't really do anything for your back. The riding position is not real comfortable and I've only had worse back problems until I worked on core strength. . .

If you want to get a bicycle and intend to stand up a lot, DO NOT get a road bike. Get a mountain bike. Standing on a road bike is less comfortable than sitting. It's much more comfortable to stand on a mountain bike.
IWreckALot
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2/2/2016 11:02am
Oh, but if you want a cross training exercise, off road bicycle will make your line choices WAY better. And the cardio you pick up as you get better at biking is really good for racing also.
DannoJ919
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Holly, MI, USA
2/2/2016 1:30pm
I had this little gem a few years back. Tried lots of things but ended up having surgery. The removed the bad one and put an artificial disc in. No fusion. Woke up in zero pain, non loss of mobility.



kaptkaos
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2/2/2016 1:35pm
Cycling can sometimes help or hurt the matter. Depends a lot on the person and the exact nature of the injury/ailment. There have been times when riding has provided me relief from lower back pain, and others when it has not. The cycling and exercising is not a remedy after the injury has occurred. You must make exercising a regular part of your daily routine in order to prevent the injuries. Sometimes you feel like you cant get there from here, but you just have to suck it up and do it, even if you have some pain, and you cannot properly do the work, you still have to do it lightly and each day you will get better and your healing will be accelerated. Once you are healed up, then you must amp up the workload and intensity to get in the best shape you possibly can for your age and health and keep doing it. Eat cleanly and give up all the alcohol, sugar and bread. You will be a new person. You wont need ibuprophen or acetominophen to make it through your day.Eat as much lean protein as you can and make sure to eat healthy fats and take your supplements. Good exercises to do are:

1. Deadlift - doesnt need to be heavy weights.
2. Lat pulldown or pullups
3. Shoulder Press
4. Bench press or pushups
5. Ab/core work

Get the book "Get Serious" from Amazon. its a quick read.

If you notice one thing from all of these replies, and from other people you speak to, the one common theme is that most people have healed themselves of lower back problems with proper exercise. The author of the book confirms it, and he is a neurosurgeon that operates on backs all the time.

ktm212
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Lafayette, NJ, USA
2/2/2016 1:36pm
Calihusky wrote:
I've dealt with a herniated L5 S1 disc for 7 years. Bad sciatica on the right side which resolved with physical therapy and core stuff. This...
I've dealt with a herniated L5 S1 disc for 7 years. Bad sciatica on the right side which resolved with physical therapy and core stuff. This past year it's been acting up on the left side now because I slacked off with the exercise and also picking up my 2 year old in awkward positions. I was thinking of getting a mountain or road bike just to get cardio. Has everyone found biking helpful for this? I wanted to use it as cross training for motocross and I plan on standing more than sitting because the bicycle seat looks like it could cause irritation.
IWreckALot wrote:
Bicycle's don't really do anything for your back. The riding position is not real comfortable and I've only had worse back problems until I worked on...
Bicycle's don't really do anything for your back. The riding position is not real comfortable and I've only had worse back problems until I worked on core strength. . .

If you want to get a bicycle and intend to stand up a lot, DO NOT get a road bike. Get a mountain bike. Standing on a road bike is less comfortable than sitting. It's much more comfortable to stand on a mountain bike.
The funny because either way road cycling and mountain biking helps my back, stretches out my hips and loosens me up in general, plus its super low impact, i just roll my bars back on my road bike and sit up every once in awhile. I tried everything, I went to doctors "build your core strength" meanwhile im training 5 days a week for racing, my core was plenty strong. I tried inversion tables, acupuncture, chiropractic, working out. it came down to me just needing surgery I was getting worse and worse. Im a year and 3 months post surgery and I still feel twings in my back and sitting for a long time bothers it, I dont get shooting pain but i get pins and needles and it gets uncomfortable. I make sure I work out and stretch and cycle to keep my hips good and riding actually helps. I'm sure i'll need some more help later down the road. This injury has been the absolute worst, i wouldnt put this type of pain on anyone.
kaptkaos
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Miami, FL, USA
2/2/2016 2:07pm
DannoJ919 wrote:
I had this little gem a few years back. Tried lots of things but ended up having surgery. The removed the bad one and put an...
I had this little gem a few years back. Tried lots of things but ended up having surgery. The removed the bad one and put an artificial disc in. No fusion. Woke up in zero pain, non loss of mobility.



Thats pretty bad, hurts just looking at it. Definitely looks like surgery required. Glad you are past it.
The Rock
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2/2/2016 5:37pm
moto0852 wrote:
Lots of "bad science" on the VAX D http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/vaxd/vaxd.html

As had been said...get to the gym and work on your core.
71Fish wrote:
I know some chiropractors and spine experts don't recommend them, and some patients had bad experiences. For me personally, it changed my life.
What 71Fish said!
gjbruny
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Spokane, WA, USA
2/2/2016 6:52pm
i have had 2 serious neck sprains in my life as well as a herniated disc mid spine and another in my lower spine. one disc injury came from a football injury in high school and the other came from helping some friends move a hot tub. to make things worse, i competed in bodybuilding all through college and the amount of weight i was able to lift in those days contributed even more to my spinal injuries... thought back then as a kid i didn't give much thought to constant minor pain... i was "invincible" back thenTongue . pain started really creeping up on me in my mid 30s, and while i still stayed VERY fit, the pain continued to get worse... i tried everything from very expensive mattresses to chiropractors etc. still nothing worked. about a year before, my wife had started getting into yoga. i used to tease her that "yoga was not a workout." one day when she was not home i threw in one of her DVDs and gave it a try.... like i said, i am very fit and take a lot of pride in being able out work kids in their 20s..... but that first yoga session about killed me.... to say i was humbled was an understatement but it also showed me just how much i needed to improve my flexibility. i started doing it religiously... a couple times i took a few steps backward in the spine department when i would push too hard on stretches and my back would kill me for a week or so. i had to really pace myself to avoid further injury but within about a month i started noticing that my back wasn't hurting as much.... i didn't start yoga for anything other than to improve my flexibility, the reduced pain was just a bi-product.

about 6 months after starting yoga i bought an inversion table at the advice of a friend. at first i could hardly use it.... going upside down did not work for me... i don't do well with being dizzy so i had to start out by just slightly being tilted at an angle. within a couple weeks i could handle going upside down and by that time i could really feel a difference in my spinal pain and how much less it was bothering me. 6 months after having the table and using it daily my pain was reduced back to about where it was in my 20s.... another bi-product is that now i never get dizzy... spinning, flips etc no longer phase me.

now at 40, i use the inversion table every single day before i go to bed and hang for 15 minutes. i also do yoga a minimum of 4 times per week. not only does the dramatically increased flexibility and balance help in all aspects of my life (especially while riding), it has been the biggest pain reliever for the disc that is herniated in my mid spine while the inversion table has nearly eliminated the pain in my lower spine. having said that, whenever i am away on vacation or elk hunting for more than a week, my lower back will start hurting and i can hardly wait to get back to hanging upside down.

while everyone is different, i think everyone can improve their spinal pain without surgery.... it just takes working at it daily. it certainly is worth a try before surgery.
race
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USA
2/2/2016 10:13pm
No more crunches or sit-ups! I shudder to think of the thousands I must have done.

Good read -

"
A Canadian professor of spine biomechanics rails about the dangers of the ubiquitous sit-up. After three decades of figuring how out the spine works, Stuart McGill has come to loathe sit-ups. It doesn’t matter whether they are the full sit-ups beloved by military trainers or the crunch versions so ubiquitous in gyms.

“What happens when you perform a sit-up?” he asks. “The spine is flexed into the position at which it damages sooner.” The professor of spine biomechanics at the University of Waterloo knows a thing or two about snapping spines. In his lab, McGill proudly shows off a machine that’s probably created more disc herniations than any other in the world. “We get real [pig] spines from the butcher and we compress them, shear them and bend them to simulate activities such as golf swings and sit-ups, and watch as unique patterns of injury emerge.”

A disc has a ring around it, and the middle, the nucleus, is filled with a mucus-like liquid. Do a sit-up and the spine’s compression will squeeze the nucleus. On his computer, McGill shows how the nucleus can work its way out of the disc, hit a nerve root and cause that oh-so-familiar back pain.

“From observing the way your total gym routine is performed, we can predict the type of disc damage you’re eventually going to have.” While there are lots of ways to injure a back, the sit-up is an easily preventable one.
There are only so many bends in your spine until the discs eventually herniate.

According to his research, a crunch or traditional sit-up generates at least 3,350 newtons (the equivalent of 340 kg) of compressive force on the spine. The U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health states that anything above 3,300 newtons is unsafe. So McGill suggests replacing sit-ups with exercises to strengthen the core while not bending the spine: bridges, planks, bird dogs, and “stir the pot.”
The bird dog, for instance, simply involves getting on all fours and, while keeping the core muscles tight, extending the opposite arm and leg, then switching limbs.
“Stir the pot” (video) is a more complex movement: moving shoulders in a small circle while in a prone push-up position with forearms balanced on an exercise ball.

The results of McGill’s decades of spine research is slowly being accepted outside the worlds of academia and elite athletics. Ian Crosby of the Calgary Fire Department saw the shift first-hand. He’s on a committee of the International Association of Fire Fighters that establishes criteria for the make-or-break fitness test. A few years ago, they reviewed the annual sit-up test, which involved doing steady crunches in time to a metronome. The problem, for Crosby, is that anyone being assessed “will train to get better. And that involves repeated bouts of sit-ups.” So last year, after talking to Stuart McGill and other experts, the IAFF dropped the sit-up in favor of the prone plank—basically a static push-up that will leave the unfit trembling with fatigue.

For those who believe sit-ups are the only key to strong abdominals, Crosby points to research that shows the new movements can be just as effective in improving core strength. A study of U.S. soldiers published earlier this year in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise compared sit-ups with back-friendly core stabilization exercises, including bird dogs, and found there was no difference in overall fitness between the two groups. In fact, those who did core exercises showed significant improvement in the army’s sit-up test.

The decline of the crunch can also be seen at ordinary sweat-filled gyms. Anthony Ierulli, manager of fitness programming for the YMCA in Brampton, Ont., says that while in the past all anyone “did were crunches, now they’re doing some Pilates and yoga that engage the abdomen in different ways.” But Ierulli emphasizes that changing routines isn’t enough if the technique isn’t there. And that requires finding a teacher who can fine-tune those unfamiliar exercises.

As for McGill, he keeps spreading his message. Recently, Asia Nelson, a local Waterloo-based trainer of yoga instructors, invited the expert to talk to her class of student teachers about his philosophy. She knows that not all traditional yoga postures are back-friendly. One example Nelson gives is the sun salutation’s forward fold—basically a standing crunch with the added hanging weight of the body. Now, after the professor’s lecture, she’s figuring out ways to modify that and other movements.

While Nelson and the Y’s Ierulli recommend people find a balance between old and new techniques, McGill’s message is more blunt: “There are only so many bends in your spine until the discs eventually herniate.”

More on McGill:
Dr. Stuart McGill is one of the world’s best when it comes to understanding the back and spine. Stuart McGill, PhD, is a professor at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada, and an internationally recognized lecturer and expert in spine function and injury prevention and rehabilitation. Dr. McGill played football and lifted weights in his youth. His rehab labs have produced more than 200 scientific publications that address lumbar function, low back injury mechanisms, mechanisms of injury prevention and rehabilitation and, most recently, issues related to high performance.
As a consultant, he has provided expertise on assessment and reduction of the risk of low back injury—along with rehab approaches—to government agencies, corporations, legal firms, professional athletes and teams, and is regularly referred patients for consultation. Dr. McGill is also known for training and mentoring Dr. Cholewicki, (now a professor at Yale’s medical school, one of the top spine stability scientists in the world). Before Cholewicki became a doctor he was an Eastern European classically trained lifter who moved to Canada from Poland still holding some Canadian records in his weight class.
Dr. McGill gives credit to learning from Dr. Vladimir Janda, who taught him how to assess different kinds of movement disorders and syndromes. Dr. McGill has authored books such as Low Back Disorders: evidence-based prevention and rehabilitation -2nd edition. In this book he credits many great academic personalites in the spine world such as: Harry Farfan, Bill Kirkaldy-Willis, Dan Chaffin, Bill Adams.
Dr. McGill also gives credit and learning (in his books and interviews) from academic clinicians such as: Shirley Sahrmann, Dick Erhart, Rick Jemmett, Paul Hodges, Andry Vleeming, Craig Liebenson, D.C. (Doctor of Chiropractic), Peter O’Sullivan, Clayton Skaggs.
"

I think there is some controversy over his use of pig spines, etc. but at this point I am willing to err on the side of caution and not risk any further disk damage.
Vet57
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2545
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BRO Town, MA, USA
2/3/2016 1:20am
Good info here...I'll just say the first line of defense in dealing with back issues is learning proper body mechanics as well as a good stretching routine. Once you learn the techniques it becomes second nature with everyday movement and goes along way in the prevention of disc issues. Lots of info out there...
struth
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USA
2/3/2016 1:25am
L4/5. Herniated disk. For last 15 years with switching sciatica

Stretch at least twice n walk 3 to 4 ks a day.

Still her regular back spasims. , n nerve pain,pins needles ect

Seeing neurosurgeon. On Friday...had enough of this shit...
2/3/2016 4:27am
I had my surgery about 1 month ago. I had 3 badly herniated discs in my neck from c4 to c7, I had tried everything possible including inversion tables, the surgery was a success and I feel brand new! Night n day better!, my life was so affected by the pain I forgot what it was like to be normal again .Lol, Im not sure if im the guy your talking about ROCK i was pretty open on here about the surgery and sold off my bad ass 300sx and all my parts, im taking a year off to heal and will be back on the new rmz, or crf when they come available.
71Fish
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Ogden, UT, USA
2/3/2016 5:45am
struth wrote:
L4/5. Herniated disk. For last 15 years with switching sciatica Stretch at least twice n walk 3 to 4 ks a day. Still her regular back...
L4/5. Herniated disk. For last 15 years with switching sciatica

Stretch at least twice n walk 3 to 4 ks a day.

Still her regular back spasims. , n nerve pain,pins needles ect

Seeing neurosurgeon. On Friday...had enough of this shit...
I had injections for L5 bulge causing sciatica. It got rid of the pain but not the cause. Decompression and strengthening my core did that for me. But like I said above, decompression doesn't work for everybody.

A big part of my weaker core before was always using a lifting belt when I was into heavy lifting in my teens, 20s and early 30s. I was always supported with a belt and not allowing my core to work. I never use a belt anymore and focus most of my gym time on my core.
kaptkaos
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Miami, FL, USA
2/3/2016 8:44am
Guys, when we mean gym work, and strength training, I dont mean the traditional old gym routines and definitely dont wear belts!

Today effective training can be done at home with body weight, dumb bells, rubber bands, rowers, spin bikes etc. I have strengthened my core without doing crunches or situps.

As the one poster said Yoga is SUPER effective, if you can man up and do it. Its so challenging, not only on the physical side, but the mental side, fighting the boredom of doing the painful and difficult Yoga moves is not easy. I have tried and given up on Yoga a few times mostly because its boring and I suck at it.
cable
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Rockford, MI, USA
2/3/2016 10:17am
I could barely walk. couldn't lift newborn baby.. l5-s1. i was even thin. 170lbs., 35yrs old at the time tried about everything. as soon as i tried the ab wheel, it started to go away. I am in no pain now. I also think that the leg press with low weights and bringing your knees down to your chest seemed to stretch the lower back in a way that i could never do. One of these two things worked for me after 5 yrs of living in pain.

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