It seems some of the riders have been complaining about track conditions

jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol GB
6/4/2015 2:56pm
GOD DAMMIT WHY WON'T THEY LET THE GRASS GROW IN AND LET THE BIKES TILL IT UP AGAIN!!!!

Just once...


JUST ONCE
I agree. I would love to see them hold a race on a grass base. No excavation or shifting piles of dirt around, just mark the track out and let 'em race. As great as the Hangtown track was it saddened me to see the whole place look like a construction site.
machine
Posts
6404
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Collettsville, NC US
6/4/2015 2:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2015 3:00pm
jamma10 wrote:
Baggett loved Thunder Valley. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/06/04/93636/s1200_Screen_Shot_2015_06_04_at_22.52.56.jpg[/img]
Baggett loved Thunder Valley.


The good ones did, heck look how good Tickle did Smile
topman
Posts
11
Joined
6/4/2015
Location
GB
6/4/2015 3:01pm
I would really like to see even 1 example of these "rough tracks" all the old guys are jerking off about. Theres no way in hell...
I would really like to see even 1 example of these "rough tracks" all the old guys are jerking off about. Theres no way in hell the tracks were ever as rough as they have been for the first few rounds. Bikes back in the 80's wouldnt have even made it around Colorado for 30+2.

Also, I dont seem to remember RC having any problem spanking the Euros when he raced his "perfectly groomed" tracks back in '04.

If yall cared even a little bit about rider safety and making good racing, you wouldnt want the tracks to be a nightmare, but because yall want to project your insecurities to the current racing generation and prove how "hardxxxcore" yall were back in the good ol days, tracks have become nearly unrideable. I personally dont like watching 40 riders tip-toe around a track while maybe 3 passes happen the entire race. Its just stupid.

I think this whole prepare for the MXdN hype is bullshit- RV didnt seem to have a problem waxing the field on a 250 back in '07 when the tracks got groomed between motos. We have got beat at the MXdN recently because the other guys were just faster, plain and simple. No amount of rough track riding is going to change that.

I get really sick of hearing old riders talk about how rough it was "back in the day" because it simply wasnt. I bet yall couldnt provide me with any proof that tracks were rougher.
...before we get into this...were you home skewled....Tongue
Thats the biggest Turd I've seen in a long time.
brimx153
Posts
3344
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
6/4/2015 3:37pm
alot of people seem to like watching riders race the track ,not each other !!!! ,i d rather a track that produces better racing between the riders . its amazing all the people who bitch about a track beening too smooth . then call the rider s who say a track was dangeous because it was too rough are pussies ! but yet they are the one bitching about a track being too fast and smooth and too many riders can go fast on it(and god help us if we got a close race because of it ). are they not being pussies ,afraid of a bit of speed ????? why dont they have different track prep for diff races . why is it always the same ? there should be a mixture of rough ones ,smoother ones , loam ,and hardpack . imo the MXGP racing this year has been so good is because there not ripping the crap out of every race track like they use to

The Shop

njracer46
Posts
713
Joined
3/20/2011
Location
NJ US
6/4/2015 5:01pm Edited Date/Time 6/4/2015 5:38pm
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip it deep and hardly touch it through out the day. It separates people, exp when you only have 4-6 laps per race. Kinda hard to make up time or make passes to the front when the whole track is a freeway. This can go either way for to much track prep or on natural ground not touched. Ruts slow people down and give you multiple passing lines in most sections. I can't think of anything better then good corner ruts with multiple lines.

These pics are from a thread on here from awhile ago, idk how some of you can say that this looks easy to years past. I raced red bud on pro weekend last year and the track was somewhat similar. Just long ruts going through straights and turns. Difference is you can come in so much faster and you just hop out of the rut if you come into it to hot. Dilla not so much, you come in to hot and cross rut. You're going down hard.

Here's something else to ponder. Watching that old vid from Dilla I'm going to bet most of us could make it around that track one lap without crashing. How many of you think you could do one lap around the track from the pictures below without crashing?

My last edit I promise. I guess the whole letting tracks get rougher this year because our recent trips to the mxdn is out the window. This is from 2012 before we even raced the lommel mxdn.





sandtrack315
Posts
2828
Joined
7/19/2013
Location
Philadelphia, PA US
6/4/2015 5:35pm
"So you're telling me the world isn't getting worse? I've seen kids today, all in black, wearing makeup, shit on their faces; everything's sex. Clinton!"

"You know, throughout history, I bet every old man probably said the same thing. And old men die. And the world keeps spinning."

I have rode at Glen Helen on Thursday at 3pm after everyone is gone and at Southwick after a week of rain. The bikes Hannah rode wouldn't even make it around those tracks.

There is safe rough--deep ruts and some acceleration and breaking bumps, long rolling whooped out sections--and there is unsafe rough--square edges in high speed sections. And safe rough does separate the riders. I think tracks have, in general, gotten rougher in the safer way (at least in America, don't know much about overseas), but Thunder Vallley looked unsafe rough. Probably why Tomac and Stewart both ended their seasons on the same section.
731chopper
Posts
4224
Joined
1/2/2015
Location
DFW, TX US
6/4/2015 6:03pm
njracer46 wrote:
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip...
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip it deep and hardly touch it through out the day. It separates people, exp when you only have 4-6 laps per race. Kinda hard to make up time or make passes to the front when the whole track is a freeway. This can go either way for to much track prep or on natural ground not touched. Ruts slow people down and give you multiple passing lines in most sections. I can't think of anything better then good corner ruts with multiple lines.

These pics are from a thread on here from awhile ago, idk how some of you can say that this looks easy to years past. I raced red bud on pro weekend last year and the track was somewhat similar. Just long ruts going through straights and turns. Difference is you can come in so much faster and you just hop out of the rut if you come into it to hot. Dilla not so much, you come in to hot and cross rut. You're going down hard.

Here's something else to ponder. Watching that old vid from Dilla I'm going to bet most of us could make it around that track one lap without crashing. How many of you think you could do one lap around the track from the pictures below without crashing?

My last edit I promise. I guess the whole letting tracks get rougher this year because our recent trips to the mxdn is out the window. This is from 2012 before we even raced the lommel mxdn.





Who ever said it would be a cake walk?
wreckitrandy
Posts
4204
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Granite Falls, NC US
6/4/2015 6:22pm
Bob Hannah would laugh in your face. I don't recall seeing many current tracks that look as rough as this one at about 3:40 Ruts are a challenge. Off cambers, steep hills,,,,,, and, jumps as well, are part of what drew me into the sport back in the '70's. Granted, you didn't see guys jumping 150' uphill. This video is what motocross was. I still dig it and plan to be at Muddy Creek but, I dug it more back then. 'Dilla doesn't look this rough to me these days. https://youtu.be/q_n2m0N3LpQ?feature=player_detailpage
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
6/4/2015 6:31pm
njracer46 wrote:
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip...
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip it deep and hardly touch it through out the day. It separates people, exp when you only have 4-6 laps per race. Kinda hard to make up time or make passes to the front when the whole track is a freeway. This can go either way for to much track prep or on natural ground not touched. Ruts slow people down and give you multiple passing lines in most sections. I can't think of anything better then good corner ruts with multiple lines.

These pics are from a thread on here from awhile ago, idk how some of you can say that this looks easy to years past. I raced red bud on pro weekend last year and the track was somewhat similar. Just long ruts going through straights and turns. Difference is you can come in so much faster and you just hop out of the rut if you come into it to hot. Dilla not so much, you come in to hot and cross rut. You're going down hard.

Here's something else to ponder. Watching that old vid from Dilla I'm going to bet most of us could make it around that track one lap without crashing. How many of you think you could do one lap around the track from the pictures below without crashing?

My last edit I promise. I guess the whole letting tracks get rougher this year because our recent trips to the mxdn is out the window. This is from 2012 before we even raced the lommel mxdn.





I don't see bumps/roughness I only see endless shitty ruts.
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
6/4/2015 6:34pm
Bob Hannah would laugh in your face. I don't recall seeing many current tracks that look as rough as this one at about 3:40 Ruts are...
Bob Hannah would laugh in your face. I don't recall seeing many current tracks that look as rough as this one at about 3:40 Ruts are a challenge. Off cambers, steep hills,,,,,, and, jumps as well, are part of what drew me into the sport back in the '70's. Granted, you didn't see guys jumping 150' uphill. This video is what motocross was. I still dig it and plan to be at Muddy Creek but, I dug it more back then. 'Dilla doesn't look this rough to me these days. https://youtu.be/q_n2m0N3LpQ?feature=player_detailpage
Hey look! A track that hasn't been watered/tilled to death, what a concept.
h&m_cycle
Posts
4410
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH US
6/5/2015 2:44am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2015 2:45am
We just have more ruts now a days, digging it deep... A guy can always slow down... You get arm pump you slow down...

when these ruts get so deep that you stick the bike, something needs to be done...

Jeremy Martin wouldn't have the points lead right now if GH was tilled before the moto... His bike wouldn't start, how would

he charge to fifth if there's no way to gain time?... He would pick them off here or there by late braking... But He would be

going down the straights about the same as all the others...
motodriller
Posts
158
Joined
2/13/2009
Location
Pasco, WA US
6/5/2015 6:31am
Good job DC, you got every minute of every Moto on TV. In my opinion, you had better do something to get racing closer. The tracks need to be easier so we can see some dicing back and forth. I really only want to watch the highlight show now because the racing is not close enough.
OldPro277
Posts
1875
Joined
11/9/2009
Location
Avonmore, PA US
6/5/2015 6:54am
hillbilly wrote:
Go eat a bag of dicks you cocksucker.
Very eloquently spoken.....and completely on point !! Once again ,Hillbilly is able to sum things up quickly and accurately Tongue You da man!
MR. X
Posts
6913
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
6/5/2015 7:10am
The racing would be more exciting if the riders could race each other instead of being locked into a 8 inch deep rutt through the whole turn. That's it,black top and street tires. Is there an In between that would work?
mimafia
Posts
328
Joined
5/17/2013
Location
Grand Rapids, MI US
6/5/2015 7:13am
njracer46 wrote:
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip...
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip it deep and hardly touch it through out the day. It separates people, exp when you only have 4-6 laps per race. Kinda hard to make up time or make passes to the front when the whole track is a freeway. This can go either way for to much track prep or on natural ground not touched. Ruts slow people down and give you multiple passing lines in most sections. I can't think of anything better then good corner ruts with multiple lines.

These pics are from a thread on here from awhile ago, idk how some of you can say that this looks easy to years past. I raced red bud on pro weekend last year and the track was somewhat similar. Just long ruts going through straights and turns. Difference is you can come in so much faster and you just hop out of the rut if you come into it to hot. Dilla not so much, you come in to hot and cross rut. You're going down hard.

Here's something else to ponder. Watching that old vid from Dilla I'm going to bet most of us could make it around that track one lap without crashing. How many of you think you could do one lap around the track from the pictures below without crashing?

My last edit I promise. I guess the whole letting tracks get rougher this year because our recent trips to the mxdn is out the window. This is from 2012 before we even raced the lommel mxdn.





I don't see bumps/roughness I only see endless shitty ruts.
I'm not saying the tracks are too rough in general but I know as a fan and spectator I'd much rather see the pros blasting around a nice loamy berm than tiptoeing through ruts like these! Boring. This is not enduro racing.
bents
Posts
3372
Joined
12/31/2009
Location
CA
Fantasy
6/5/2015 7:17am
I don't recall MX being a slot car race. I have no idea how you race another dude when all you can think about is staying in a 3 foot rut for 50-100 yards. That is when it gets to be a little ridiculous. Riding nothing but ruts for a whole Moto is not fun at all, period.
Zracer
Posts
1479
Joined
2/17/2013
Location
Saint Clair, MI US
6/5/2015 7:18am
njracer46 wrote:
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip...
Yeah because the new dilla would be a cake walk to ride compared to the one in the vid. I personally like when the tracks rip it deep and hardly touch it through out the day. It separates people, exp when you only have 4-6 laps per race. Kinda hard to make up time or make passes to the front when the whole track is a freeway. This can go either way for to much track prep or on natural ground not touched. Ruts slow people down and give you multiple passing lines in most sections. I can't think of anything better then good corner ruts with multiple lines.

These pics are from a thread on here from awhile ago, idk how some of you can say that this looks easy to years past. I raced red bud on pro weekend last year and the track was somewhat similar. Just long ruts going through straights and turns. Difference is you can come in so much faster and you just hop out of the rut if you come into it to hot. Dilla not so much, you come in to hot and cross rut. You're going down hard.

Here's something else to ponder. Watching that old vid from Dilla I'm going to bet most of us could make it around that track one lap without crashing. How many of you think you could do one lap around the track from the pictures below without crashing?

My last edit I promise. I guess the whole letting tracks get rougher this year because our recent trips to the mxdn is out the window. This is from 2012 before we even raced the lommel mxdn.





I don't see bumps/roughness I only see endless shitty ruts.
mimafia wrote:
I'm not saying the tracks are too rough in general but I know as a fan and spectator I'd much rather see the pros blasting around...
I'm not saying the tracks are too rough in general but I know as a fan and spectator I'd much rather see the pros blasting around a nice loamy berm than tiptoeing through ruts like these! Boring. This is not enduro racing.
Except the pros dont tiptoe through thise ruts. They go through them wfo. There seems to be a massive generation gap about how tracks should be built. Mosts youngsters just dont know or respect the history. If you think that blasting wfo through loamy berms to set up the 120 foot uphill triple is what what mx is all about, then Im referring to you.
6/5/2015 7:25am
It's terrain, not just roughness.

Different terrains develop in different ways - a hard packed blue grooved circuit littered with tiny squared edge bumps everywhere may not look anywhere near as rough as the above post National Unadilla pictures, but it's every bit (perhaps more) challenging, especially if you're not used to dealing with it and the bike isn't set-up accordingly.

This, along with many other things (i.e today's GP riders are just as good, different practice formats, different layouts, a degree of luck etc) is what has been throwing a curve ball toward Team America over the past few years. And personally, though I have also enjoyed the National tracks this year as a viewer; I don't think it's easily solved by just letting the tracks rough up a bit more (though that will help). What you really need is wider terrain variety imo. On the flip side, when the GP riders come to the USA for the MXDN or as a career move etc; the shoe will often be on the other foot. That's just the way it is.
DoctorJD
Posts
2971
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Somewhere in..., GA US
6/5/2015 7:31am
h&m_cycle wrote:
We just have more ruts now a days, digging it deep... A guy can always slow down... You get arm pump you slow down... when these...
We just have more ruts now a days, digging it deep... A guy can always slow down... You get arm pump you slow down...

when these ruts get so deep that you stick the bike, something needs to be done...

Jeremy Martin wouldn't have the points lead right now if GH was tilled before the moto... His bike wouldn't start, how would

he charge to fifth if there's no way to gain time?... He would pick them off here or there by late braking... But He would be

going down the straights about the same as all the others...
Right. In the old days, they didn't till the track 18" deep and water it for five days. Did they get rough (and dusty)? Hell yea, but there weren't axle-deep ruts running the entire length of the track like a f*cking slot car track. No way is it the same as it was back in the 70's and 80's.
6/5/2015 9:04am
h&m_cycle wrote:
We just have more ruts now a days, digging it deep... A guy can always slow down... You get arm pump you slow down... when these...
We just have more ruts now a days, digging it deep... A guy can always slow down... You get arm pump you slow down...

when these ruts get so deep that you stick the bike, something needs to be done...

Jeremy Martin wouldn't have the points lead right now if GH was tilled before the moto... His bike wouldn't start, how would

he charge to fifth if there's no way to gain time?... He would pick them off here or there by late braking... But He would be

going down the straights about the same as all the others...
DoctorJD wrote:
Right. In the old days, they didn't till the track 18" deep and water it for five days. Did they get rough (and dusty)? Hell yea...
Right. In the old days, they didn't till the track 18" deep and water it for five days. Did they get rough (and dusty)? Hell yea, but there weren't axle-deep ruts running the entire length of the track like a f*cking slot car track. No way is it the same as it was back in the 70's and 80's.
Yea and the technique and form you guys had in the 70s was pretty fucking boring.
machine
Posts
6404
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Collettsville, NC US
6/5/2015 9:15am
If you take into account the power, handlng and lack of suspension they were dealing with at the time, they were rough as hell, no doubt about it.
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
6/5/2015 9:33am
Zracer wrote:
Except the pros dont tiptoe through thise ruts. They go through them wfo. There seems to be a massive generation gap about how tracks should be...
Except the pros dont tiptoe through thise ruts. They go through them wfo. There seems to be a massive generation gap about how tracks should be built. Mosts youngsters just dont know or respect the history. If you think that blasting wfo through loamy berms to set up the 120 foot uphill triple is what what mx is all about, then Im referring to you.
Zracer, just because they can go fast on a slot car track doesn't make it fun to watch or fun to do. And just for the record I have been around since long before triples or even doubles Smile
DoctorJD
Posts
2971
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Somewhere in..., GA US
6/5/2015 9:46am
Yea and the technique and form you guys had in the 70s was pretty fucking boring.
What in the living hell does that have to do with anything I posted? Did you even read my post? I'm saying its rougher today than it was back then, because it's rough (read carefully) and to compound matters...rutted to hell.

ga_pike
Posts
2649
Joined
7/14/2011
Location
Valdosta, GA US
6/5/2015 10:03am
Personally, I feel like the endless ruts are the issue. Bumps and such are fine but the ruts get deep and never seem to end. They become dangerous. Only recently have we really seen top guys get tossed in a straight (Stewart first year on Zook comes to mind).

I'm thinking they till the dirt too deep. Why do we need 18 inches of loam? 4-6" is deep enough to get things started. Have some natural grass areas. But we have to fix the crazy long ruts.
Bosco
Posts
273
Joined
4/5/2012
Location
Toyota Hiace NZ
6/5/2015 10:33am
If some of the best riders in the world are turning around and saying "you know what guys, this is a bit much", then I don't think any of us have the authority to tell them they're wrong. Regardless of whether or not you walked to school uphill both ways, or your dad hit you when you failed maths, or you rode a rough track on a bike with drum brakes and 2 inches of suspension travel.
ChrisB10
Posts
2082
Joined
5/24/2014
Location
Plattsburgh, NY US
6/5/2015 10:36am
You have NO RIGHT to call someone a sissie until you ride that track in the condition it was in at the speed they go.

Which will never happen so zip it
LappedU
Posts
494
Joined
2/24/2011
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
6/5/2015 10:47am
If you practice in shit conditions you will be good in shit conditions, you practice on freeways and guess what? now you suck on tough tracks! they need to stop riding smooth tracks for practice during the week!
TailSoHard
Posts
1656
Joined
10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI US
6/5/2015 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/5/2015 12:29pm
"square-edge bumps in high-speed sections"

You realize that a high-speed section with a bunch of bumps in it is just called a slow-speed section, right??

Dungey is a perfect example. He knows that in order to go fast you have to be smooth. And to be smooth, you sometimes have to go slow. If a section is too rough to fast, slow the fuck down! DUH!?!

First people complain about the jumps being too big, so they knock the jumps down. Now the tracks are boring though, so they let them get all rutted up. Now they complain about the ruts because they can't go fast enough to pass someone or make it over that jump. Ok, so let's get rid of the ruts. Now that we can go fast, the jumps aren't big enough, so let's make bigger jumps. But then not everyone can make it over the jumps, so we knock them down again and the cycle starts over... You'll never make everyone happy no matter how much you try.
ChrisB10
Posts
2082
Joined
5/24/2014
Location
Plattsburgh, NY US
6/5/2015 1:41pm
Bob Hannah would laugh in your face. I don't recall seeing many current tracks that look as rough as this one at about 3:40 Ruts are...
Bob Hannah would laugh in your face. I don't recall seeing many current tracks that look as rough as this one at about 3:40 Ruts are a challenge. Off cambers, steep hills,,,,,, and, jumps as well, are part of what drew me into the sport back in the '70's. Granted, you didn't see guys jumping 150' uphill. This video is what motocross was. I still dig it and plan to be at Muddy Creek but, I dug it more back then. 'Dilla doesn't look this rough to me these days. https://youtu.be/q_n2m0N3LpQ?feature=player_detailpage
Except today's riders go 4x as fast...........
Titan1
Posts
9409
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
6/5/2015 2:41pm
You know what I really want to see? I want to see the best riders in the world straight hauling the mail over terrain I would be in survival mode on.

So yeah, maybe I want to have my cake and eat it too, but I want to see these guys riding the most gnarly, rough, rutted, steep, tracks they can throw at them...AND racing each. And its possible.

You don't have to be going mach 2 to have good racing. You can have riders racing each other while "tip toeing" (if anyone calls what the pros do through these ruts "tip toeing" you must be Stephan Everts or Ricky Carmichael...to me they are flying) through 12 inch deep, 200 yard parallel ruts. That's exciting to me.

I say never touch the national tracks...just leave them alone, add water, and let them race year after year.

Post a reply to: It seems some of the riders have been complaining about track conditions

The Latest