When will Yamaha abandon the YZF engine design?

Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 3/12/2015 7:54am
3/12/2015 7:54am
SweetDaddy wrote:
Good to ask a legit question and then get attacked! Yamaha initially changed the design for handling purposes, not HP, and now their bikes don't handle...
Good to ask a legit question and then get attacked!
Yamaha initially changed the design for handling purposes, not HP, and now their bikes don't handle any better than the others was the reason I asked.
Have you ridden one?

Jake said power deliver right off the bottom and much stronger throughout, plus way less effort to turn. Especially coming in faster and easier putting it to the inside rut.

Coming from 6 months racing a 12' to having ridden a couple of friends 14' and 15' bikes.
SweetDaddy
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SweetDaddy 3/12/2015 7:56am
3/12/2015 7:56am
newmann wrote:
When will Kawasaki abandon the KXF engine design? You know it's bad when not even Mitch Payton can get them up front anymore.
mmain62 wrote:
I was just thinking that same thing. Although I do think Yamaha has something figured out . That said every brand has their moments I feel...
I was just thinking that same thing. Although I do think Yamaha has something figured out . That said every brand has their moments I feel like its just a big circle it will all be different within a few years again.
holeshot100 wrote:
A couple other things that just were a fad for Yamaha...... Monoshock, water cooling, and four strokes.
Those were proven advantages so the competition copied them all BUT NOT THE NEW ENGINE DESIGN.
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motomike137 3/12/2015 8:09am
3/12/2015 8:09am
Ebs wrote:
Speaking of Yamaha engine design, when did they abandon the 5-valve head?
2010 for the 450
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motomike137 3/12/2015 8:11am
3/12/2015 8:11am
SweetDaddy wrote:
Those were proven advantages so the competition copied them all BUT NOT THE NEW ENGINE DESIGN.
It has nothing to do with the engine design. It is all about how the engine is located in the frame and the frame geometry. The engine is awesome.

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holeshot100
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holeshot100 3/12/2015 8:12am
3/12/2015 8:12am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2015 8:14am
mmain62 wrote:
I was just thinking that same thing. Although I do think Yamaha has something figured out . That said every brand has their moments I feel...
I was just thinking that same thing. Although I do think Yamaha has something figured out . That said every brand has their moments I feel like its just a big circle it will all be different within a few years again.
holeshot100 wrote:
A couple other things that just were a fad for Yamaha...... Monoshock, water cooling, and four strokes.
SweetDaddy wrote:
Those were proven advantages so the competition copied them all BUT NOT THE NEW ENGINE DESIGN.
Yamaha production bike Monoshock came out in 1975. Honda and Suzuki 6 years later....Kawasaki 5 years later

Yamaha four stoke YZ-1998...........Honda- 2002.............Suzuki and Kawasaki-2004

How many years went by?

Pay attention to history, and you can learn a lot in life.
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joeellis 3/12/2015 8:13am
3/12/2015 8:13am
The Yamaha engine(s) on the YZ's have only been around since fairly late 2013. The Japanese manufacturers typically don't make large changes but every 4 years. As for the handling, the engines did help with Yamaha's idea of centralizing the weight. While the engine does play a factor in handling characteristics, handling is determined more by chassis, suspension, and the critical dimensions of the bike. I've ridden a 2015 250F and was impressed enough that I will purchase one within the next few weeks. With handling, you have to give up something to gain something else. The 250F corners fine, just not quite like the Suzuki or Honda. With that said, it is more stable in a straight line at speed than those bikes (yes I've ridden them all). I don't race supercross and don't need razor sharp handling. I prefer more of a neutral handler. Every bike has certain issues. The Yamaha's are great bikes imo.
ML512
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ML512 3/12/2015 8:33am
3/12/2015 8:33am
joeellis wrote:
The Yamaha engine(s) on the YZ's have only been around since fairly late 2013. The Japanese manufacturers typically don't make large changes but every 4 years...
The Yamaha engine(s) on the YZ's have only been around since fairly late 2013. The Japanese manufacturers typically don't make large changes but every 4 years. As for the handling, the engines did help with Yamaha's idea of centralizing the weight. While the engine does play a factor in handling characteristics, handling is determined more by chassis, suspension, and the critical dimensions of the bike. I've ridden a 2015 250F and was impressed enough that I will purchase one within the next few weeks. With handling, you have to give up something to gain something else. The 250F corners fine, just not quite like the Suzuki or Honda. With that said, it is more stable in a straight line at speed than those bikes (yes I've ridden them all). I don't race supercross and don't need razor sharp handling. I prefer more of a neutral handler. Every bike has certain issues. The Yamaha's are great bikes imo.
450 gained the new engine in 2010, while the 250F received it in 2014.
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IWreckALot 3/12/2015 8:38am
3/12/2015 8:38am
Anyone know why yamaha abandoned the 5 valve design? I really liked my 08 Yz450.

As far as SX and MX racing, they're improving the newer yamahas with the reverse mounted engine, but it only seems like they're getting back to being competitive again. I think they could have found improvements from where it was prior to 2010 without reversing the engine.

There have been quite a few teams changing brands and it always seems like the Yamaha is low on the list of options. That is somewhat telling to me.

They do appear to be making it better now. I don't have any hate for Yamaha doing what they did. I like seeing new things tried and in theory, it didn't sound like a bad idea. And in practice, it seems like they're figuring it out.
loftyair
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loftyair 3/12/2015 8:48am
3/12/2015 8:48am
Why pick on yamaha, they're all making 4-strokes!
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/12/2015 8:58am
3/12/2015 8:58am
Whole Lotta CRAZY in here...
Silliker269
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Silliker269 3/12/2015 9:08am
3/12/2015 9:08am
OP is high , the 250 hauls ass !! The 450 is a rocket too
newmann
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newmann 3/12/2015 9:09am
3/12/2015 9:09am
The 5 valve design never worked well due to the placement of the fifth valve.



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DA498 3/12/2015 9:10am
3/12/2015 9:10am
MotoX85 wrote:
I love my 14 450 and really have no idea what they are talking about with cornering. I can corner that thing just fine (not as...
I love my 14 450 and really have no idea what they are talking about with cornering. I can corner that thing just fine (not as good as a Suzuki however). I know I am not a pro or ride pro speed but I am a Vet A rider with the ability to get into 3rd gear. Next thing I hear all the time is how the brakes suck, damn if my brakes worked any better I would not be able to use them, damn near throw me over the bars now. I must have got a one off bike because my brakes are monsters.

The only thing I would really change is the radiator shrouds could be a little narrower but Cycra makes a kit that is a full inch narrower per side. Just have not broke down and gotten one.

Was hesitant to get a new 450 because of all the negativity but after the first day on the bike I confirmed never listen to propaganda off of the websites.
I have a '13 450 and Right from the dealer I freaked out how light the front end felt, but after doing some suspension tweaks I was able to feel more comfortable, although still different than I was familiar with. Also not a pro but can hold my own against my peers. I hear the brake comments also and cant figure that out? What do people want? I had a KTM prior and yes they were good brakes but not that much better.

Also thought of getting the Cycra shrouds just to be cool, but in reality not needed, The engine design is unique and fun to have, the air filter stays cleaner for sure. I have the GYTR tuner and is also fun to play with. The power is amazing and way too much for mortals like me, and any 450 would fit that bill IMO.

All the bikes are awesome, and the shootouts are just reading material for techno dudes. Just ride the things and have fun. If your that good you wouldn't be reading this.....
yz414
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yz414 3/12/2015 9:13am
3/12/2015 9:13am
Ebs wrote:
Speaking of Yamaha engine design, when did they abandon the 5-valve head?
motomike137 wrote:
2010 for the 450
and 2014 for the 250

Had something to do with EFI, i dont think the advantages of the 5 valve were present without a carb
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Grizz 3/12/2015 9:15am
3/12/2015 9:15am
MotoX85 wrote:
I love my 14 450 and really have no idea what they are talking about with cornering. I can corner that thing just fine (not as...
I love my 14 450 and really have no idea what they are talking about with cornering. I can corner that thing just fine (not as good as a Suzuki however). I know I am not a pro or ride pro speed but I am a Vet A rider with the ability to get into 3rd gear. Next thing I hear all the time is how the brakes suck, damn if my brakes worked any better I would not be able to use them, damn near throw me over the bars now. I must have got a one off bike because my brakes are monsters.

The only thing I would really change is the radiator shrouds could be a little narrower but Cycra makes a kit that is a full inch narrower per side. Just have not broke down and gotten one.

Was hesitant to get a new 450 because of all the negativity but after the first day on the bike I confirmed never listen to propaganda off of the websites.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it's something to the effect of, "it's when you read information on subjects you know a lot about that you realize you should not believe everything you read on subjects you don't." Pertaining to the Internet of course.
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Patar57 3/12/2015 9:16am
3/12/2015 9:16am
If it were such a good design then why is the Dr.d engine relocation mod one of the hottest things to do to it?
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GuyB 3/12/2015 9:21am
3/12/2015 9:21am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2015 9:21am
TeamGreen wrote:
Whole Lotta CRAZY in here...
Yeah. Yamaha will abandon it...when Vital MX forum members become product engineers at Yamaha. Wink
DA498
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DA498 3/12/2015 9:38am
3/12/2015 9:38am
Patar57 wrote:
If it were such a good design then why is the Dr.d engine relocation mod one of the hottest things to do to it?
Did you read that in a magazine? or do it yourself?

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Patar57
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Patar57 3/12/2015 9:42am
3/12/2015 9:42am
Patar57 wrote:
If it were such a good design then why is the Dr.d engine relocation mod one of the hottest things to do to it?
DA498 wrote:
Did you read that in a magazine? or do it yourself?
I have a buddy that rides for a factory Yamaha supported team that has to do it to his practice and race bikes, without any sponsorship from DR.D. just saying....
walleyeguy
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walleyeguy 3/12/2015 9:51am
3/12/2015 9:51am
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they finish putting up all their trophies from 1st place shootouts. lol.
Patar57
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Patar57 3/12/2015 9:56am
3/12/2015 9:56am
walleyeguy wrote:
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they...
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they finish putting up all their trophies from 1st place shootouts. lol.
He's an off road rider, his practice bike has FC suspension a slip on exhaust and and engine relocation kit. Seems pretty stock to me
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Brad460 3/12/2015 10:26am
3/12/2015 10:26am
Heard KTM is going to ditch the new chassis..due to too many wins this season..Shocked
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mx965 3/12/2015 10:30am
3/12/2015 10:30am
walleyeguy wrote:
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they...
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they finish putting up all their trophies from 1st place shootouts. lol.
Patar57 wrote:
He's an off road rider, his practice bike has FC suspension a slip on exhaust and and engine relocation kit. Seems pretty stock to me
Whos your "buddy" and ive never even heard of that kit. All the pro ams i went to last year never seen one.
Patar57
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Patar57 3/12/2015 10:35am
3/12/2015 10:35am
Why would I tell you who my "buddy" is? I doubt his sponsors want to hear he has to buy his own shit to be comfortable on his bike. And never heard of it? Read a magazine? Or there is also a thing called google
moto0852
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moto0852 3/12/2015 10:36am
3/12/2015 10:36am
The concept of something not being good simply because other manufactures don't copy it seems logical but is highly flawed.

Two of the best developments to happen to dirt bikes lately have been hydraulic clutches and electric starts (KTM) and look how those get copied.
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Patar57 3/12/2015 10:37am
3/12/2015 10:37am
walleyeguy wrote:
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they...
Ummmmmmm........... You do know there are not to many "factory" stock bikes on the line right? I guess they'll start thinking about a redesign when they finish putting up all their trophies from 1st place shootouts. lol.
Patar57 wrote:
He's an off road rider, his practice bike has FC suspension a slip on exhaust and and engine relocation kit. Seems pretty stock to me
mx965 wrote:
Whos your "buddy" and ive never even heard of that kit. All the pro ams i went to last year never seen one.
And BTW I'm not hating on the Yamaha I believe they have the strongest engine by far in stock trim
moremoremore 3/12/2015 10:38am
3/12/2015 10:38am
holeshot100 wrote:
Yamaha production bike Monoshock came out in 1975. Honda and Suzuki 6 years later....Kawasaki 5 years later Yamaha four stoke YZ-1998...........Honda- 2002.............Suzuki and Kawasaki-2004 How many...
Yamaha production bike Monoshock came out in 1975. Honda and Suzuki 6 years later....Kawasaki 5 years later

Yamaha four stoke YZ-1998...........Honda- 2002.............Suzuki and Kawasaki-2004

How many years went by?

Pay attention to history, and you can learn a lot in life.
umm might wanna check your facts before handing out history lessons

you're using the term "monoshock" to describe completely different designs
and in that yamaha lagged well behind with linkages

now lets talk about radiators on the triple clamps, the various rear suspension designs from 82 to 87, the bass system, boost bottles, z spokes, air cooled 490s, thru the swingarm linkage pivots, the stupidly hard to start yz400f after a simple tip over in a corner, first gen reverse engine 450 handling issues, induction noise, girth, air filter servicing fun

selective memory me thinks
ChrisB10
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ChrisB10 3/12/2015 10:39am
3/12/2015 10:39am
Yamahas are the fastest bike on the track right now have you been living under a rock?
holeshot100
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holeshot100 3/12/2015 10:50am
3/12/2015 10:50am
holeshot100 wrote:
Yamaha production bike Monoshock came out in 1975. Honda and Suzuki 6 years later....Kawasaki 5 years later Yamaha four stoke YZ-1998...........Honda- 2002.............Suzuki and Kawasaki-2004 How many...
Yamaha production bike Monoshock came out in 1975. Honda and Suzuki 6 years later....Kawasaki 5 years later

Yamaha four stoke YZ-1998...........Honda- 2002.............Suzuki and Kawasaki-2004

How many years went by?

Pay attention to history, and you can learn a lot in life.
moremoremore wrote:
umm might wanna check your facts before handing out history lessons you're using the term "monoshock" to describe completely different designs and in that yamaha lagged...
umm might wanna check your facts before handing out history lessons

you're using the term "monoshock" to describe completely different designs
and in that yamaha lagged well behind with linkages

now lets talk about radiators on the triple clamps, the various rear suspension designs from 82 to 87, the bass system, boost bottles, z spokes, air cooled 490s, thru the swingarm linkage pivots, the stupidly hard to start yz400f after a simple tip over in a corner, first gen reverse engine 450 handling issues, induction noise, girth, air filter servicing fun

selective memory me thinks
Yamaha didn't actually design the first monoshock(One shock-thus mono), but they were the first manufacture to put it on a production bike..... that is a fact.

Yamaha was the first to use water cooling on a production
bike...fact

Were these systems improved upon....yes....but it still facts

Why am I even addressing you after you made such a ignorant post in the first place is beyond me.

erikcrvjl
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erikcrvjl 3/12/2015 10:57am
3/12/2015 10:57am
holeshot100 wrote:
Ignorant topic/ post of the year. Congrats...you are in first place!
His last thread was almost as idiotic as this one. Maybe he'll sweep the podium?

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