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What if someone believed / hoped there was a higher existence.........but didn't believe in the bible? If that person believed that the bible was all written by man and under "their perception " of what / who God is?
What if a person was to think that the bible isn't " vast ' enough to explain all the wonders in the universe? Or life on other planets?
The bible ( to me anyways )......puts human beings as the center of the universe and everything revolves around them. To me this has always sounded extremely selfish and extremely arrogant.
This may sound weird.......but if God exists , I would think that the bible is a slight insult to him and his entire creation. The bible ( since it was written by man ) only focuses on Human beings on THIS planet.
But that's not the only strange thing about it........not everyone on this planet believes in one God. What about Buddha , Islam and other Gods which are worshiped by other ethnic groups around the world?
Each religion thinks the other ones are crazy. From the outside looking in.........they all seem a bit crazy.
The same can be said if we were just brains in a vat. We are still forced to deal with our reality on realities terms. If it ultimately is impossible for us to understand that's what we are, the most beneficial thing we can do is learn as much as possible about the reality we live in. As of now, the best method we have is science.
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Atheists tend to look at religion from a rational standpoint while the members of religion tend to look at it from an emotional standpoint.We live in the age of information, the age of space exploration and artificial intelligence. But its all part of God's plan no?
Personally I believe religion is man made,much of it has been used throughout history to control people,manipulate and extract money off them.The Catholic Church comes to mind,marketing Guilt,sin,fear,wealth and land in exchange for promise of going to heaven
If you look into it's history it's incredible how it's become the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence and how the 3 city states of the Vatican city,The (inner) City of London and the District of Columbia make up the Hidden Empire
Chris Hitchens once asked a Christian if other religions were valid and he said no. (I'm paraphrasing). Hitchens said then you are an atheist with regards to all other religions but yours. He agreed. Hitchens said me too, I just have one more than you.
I'll try to find the video.
Anyway, yours is an interesting question. You also make a couple of good points with regards to the bible actually being the word of God. I'm pretty sure it isn't. So, on the question of creation, you can either believe that a higher existence created the universe or you can wait for science to give you a satisfactory explanation. I doubt you will live that long.
As long as you stay away from the man made religions the higher existence theory makes it dead simple. You're done, move on. As for science, I am not willing to go through the years of studying theoretical astrophysics to keep them honest. I've heard "experts" in just about every thing I know about and many of them are just plain full of shit.
My advice is to go with the higher existence if you have to do one or the other. Personally, I don't feel compelled to hitch my wagon to any human's theories about creation. It wouldn't change my life one bit either way. Just something to wonder about besides how the Dodgers let the goddam Cards beat em.
Astronomy is a huge passion of mine as well. ( the most fascinating in fact ) It is mind blowing once a person first starts to understand how vast not only this galaxy is , but the entire universe. It's something that people 2000yrs ago didn't understand. I do find it incredible that every religion puts earth and it's people in the center of it all......and God made us in his image....basically saying , he put all his best creations on this one planet........there is nothing else out there.
It makes me chuckle a little inside when people say " If there is life on other planets....how come we haven't seen it? ". That is a lack of understanding the vastness of this galaxy and more importantly......the universe.
Out of the 300 billion stars in just this galaxy ( the milky way )........the closet sun to our sun........is 4 light years away. That's the closet one. never mind trying to see anything past that right now.
I once read a science article where a guy said......" You know how big the earth is.......now imagine it being 1 billion times this size "..........." Now pretend you walked outside your house for the very first time.....took a look around.....and proclaimed that you are the only one living on this planet.......and the entire planet was made for you and you alone ".
Because you can't see your next closet neighbor ( lack of understanding ).........does that mean it's not possible any other planet has life?
Here is another interesting fact. The Milkyway galaxy is also known to be a "young galaxy ". There are other galaxies out there that were formed a few billion years before ours. Meaning life on those other planets could be 1 - 2 billion years ahead of us. Makes you wonder what type of life could be living there?
These are only a few of the things that got me interested in Astrology. It's beyond fascinating for me. And one of the reasons why I haven't tried to find the answers to these questions in a book that was originally written 2000yrs ago.
It all goes back to.....exactly how special are we? " One grain of sand on an entire beech........is special compared to the rest? "That is basically the same comparison when we say " Earth is the only life out there ".
Crazy if you sit back and think about it.
The Drake Municipal Observatory is about 5 blocks from my place. They have a Public Night Series every friday running September through October. I've been too busy or just spaced it off for the last 5 weeks but the lady and I WILL be attending tomorrow night.
Description from their website:
"Drake Astronomy Lecturer Herbert Schwartz gives a short illustrated presentation at the observatory. After each lecture, attendees have the opportunity to observe celestial objects through the observatory’s refracting telescope and reflecting telescopes."
October 10: The Women of Astronomy
The Computers of Harvard. Draper’s Haram, putting the stars in order, finding little green men, and discovering the Dark Side.
To quote a scientist Richard Dawkins talked to: "Science is interesting, and if you don´t think so, you can fuck off!"
Really, just understanding the basic science they put forward, just the ideas they work with are mind blowing. Bringing a God or Gods into it just seems juvenile and medieval after reading about something as bizarre and big as for example the CERN laboratory.
This is my all time favourite Carl Sagan moment:
https://youtu.be/o8GA2w-qrcg
Sunhouse.......Oh man! yep Carl Sagan is THE man when we talk about bringing Astrology into the homes for all of us. He put things out there so as just about anyone could understand most of it , and had a really cool way of describing things. The new version of Cosmos with Neil DeGrasse Tyson is really amazing too. But doesn't seem to focus as much on the stars as much as Carl did. He talks a lot about stuff right here on earth.....but still very amazing show. I try to catch every show from both Carl and Neil when they come on.
Wood - must try harder!
I love his hypothesis of " a fascinatingly disturbing thought"
https://youtu.be/vUHM-XdYJQE
Pit Row
Sorry for bombing this thread with videos, but I like Tyson`s take on space and NASA in this compilation. Maybe he has realized that space research isn´t what it was back when Sagan was doing Cosmos, and that he is trying to first bring back the funds so they can actually get somewhere:
https://youtu.be/pUbOjZWjTLU
I won't argue astronomy with you because it's not something that I've studied past grade school. But, the Bible does say that man was created in God's image. I do believe that. Even if there is life on other planets, so far they haven't created the technology or figured a way to find us. So if there is life on another planet, so far, the Bible is accurate that Man is the dominant species.
I can recommend some good books if you'd like that kind of go between those lines of fundamentalism and give a different, much more acceptable view of belief in God.
Atheists have bought into the assumption of materialistic realism and by and large, take a very limited scientific view of the world in which, say, consciousness, is secondary to the stuff that makes up our brains. Consciousness is said to be an epiphenomenon. The atheist must insist that their assumptions be taken for granted, that the material world is all that exists because they need materialistic realism to support the idea of atheism, hence atheism is intellectually bankrupt because it will only allow its own assumptions about the world into the picture.
A great book on this is from noted theoretical physicist , Amit Goswami in The Self-Aware Universe: How Consciousness Creates the Material World.
In this book, Goswami exposes and challenges the assumptions of the materialistic realist and expounds on the oddities of quantum mechanics which lead to the conclusion that consciousness, and not matter, is the foundation for all of reality. Atheism is built on outdated, Newtonian mechanistic science. Now when these assumptions (such that the material world is all that exists and that matter, and not consciousness, is primary) are challenged, atheists will often become very closed-minded in their views and show off some of the true colors of their fundamentalist outlook.
But let's suppose that atheism is inextricably linked to science, your depiction of it, or I guess Amit Goswami's, is severely lacking. Science by it's nature is simply a tool of thought or reason that is not limited to "Newtonian Mechanistic science" or materialistic realism. To confine science in such a way is to miss the whole purpose of it. Science never claims to have all of the answers and is equipped to explore consciousness and other intangible phenomena.
Furthermore, I don't know how you can say that atheists must insist that consciousness is "secondary to the stuff that makes up our brains". So what if atheists deeply explore the meaning of consciousness, does that somehow make us believers in a god? That seems to be quite a leap. I don't see how the recognition of the primacy of consciousness equals theism? Science, and I guess atheism is up for exploring any possibility as long as logic and reason are employed. I just don't buy your main premise.
The bible is a blueprint for man to be pleasing to God and to lead a happy life as we interact with each other as family members, neighbors and of differant races and beliefs
That's a pretty sound philosophy to live your life by.
"Pretty sound philosophy?" Nonsense. A sound philosophy would have some basis in reality.
If everyone tried to live by the new testament's moral guidance the world would be a very different place - a very peaceful place.
This is especially bullshit. Jesus was an immoral thug that loved to threaten people with the threat of hell for the pettiest of things like simply not wanting to deal with his preaching.
Also, considering that christians have been following the new testament for quite a while now and still committing immoral acts on behalf of the bible, your argument has no basis. Hence, it was summarized by me mocking the threat of eternal torture. It illustrates in one sentence the hypocrisy of your claim.
@cr250rider
80% of the population in America is a Christian. 60% of the people believe in hell. Actions are a subset of beliefs, so whether I believe it or not is irrelevant. It still has a huge impact on me and everyone else in the country.
@eightbit
You're battling religious fundamentalism. Atheists are often just as fundamentalist as many theists in my opinion, and I think atheism is just as much intellectually bankrupt as fundamental Christianity is.
One of the major factors that separates atheists from any type of fundamentalism is that most of us base our beliefs on reason and evidence. This means that if evidence comes along to show that our beliefs are wrong, we change them to more accurately represent reality. We accept being wrong. If there were adequate evidence to show that any religion is true, I would accept that god does in fact exist. What I wouldn't do is worship the god. It's an immoral, petty, and vengeful god that is in no way worthy of worship.
@burn
Considering you quoted me multiple times in the other thread and didn't read or understand a single word of it, I really have nothing to say to you. You're delusional, and there is no point in trying to have a conversation with you.
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