125's and teenagers

JoJmoto
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JoJmoto 7/2/2014 5:31pm
7/2/2014 5:31pm
oh and by the way, we went to Mini O's last November and made it in the main in the"450c" class on his 125! it was the only small bore two banger out there...... I always knew where he was on the track just by the sound!
JM485
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JM485 7/2/2014 6:45pm
7/2/2014 6:45pm
Shoot, I've been off the 125 for a few years now and have been riding a 250 two stroke and 450 four stroke, but recently I got the urge to pull out the old 125. I rode it a couple of times then parked it because I wasn't sure how old the piston was, and didn't want to risk it blowing up on a jump face. Now that I'm working for the summer, the old cr is getting pulled out again! New piston will be ordered tonight and I'm in the process of doing some light polish work on the cylinder ports. It's an 04 so it's slower than pretty much any bike out there, but my point in riding it again is to improve my cornering. I have noticed I am improving in this area a lot lately even on the 250, and I think that spending another summer on the 125 will only help my riding, so why not? I don't race moto anymore (only do weekend practice days) and am still only about 145 lbs even though I'm 6 foot, so I think it will be pretty fun! I couldn't believe how light that thing was last time I rode it, unreal.
mxtech1
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mxtech1 7/2/2014 7:02pm
7/2/2014 7:02pm
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here)

In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no reason a 125 is at a disadvantage. Heck, he should even be able to still pull holeshots if he is a good starter.

Put him on the right sized bike and let him learn to ride fast! If he complains that he HAS to have a 250f to race, remind him who's footing the bills.
BobPA
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BobPA 7/2/2014 7:20pm
7/2/2014 7:20pm
mxtech1 wrote:
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here) In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no...
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here)

In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no reason a 125 is at a disadvantage. Heck, he should even be able to still pull holeshots if he is a good starter.

Put him on the right sized bike and let him learn to ride fast! If he complains that he HAS to have a 250f to race, remind him who's footing the bills.
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to get good starts, etc. Stop huffing pre mix bro.

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racin mason
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racin mason 7/2/2014 8:26pm
7/2/2014 8:26pm
mxtech1 wrote:
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here) In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no...
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here)

In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no reason a 125 is at a disadvantage. Heck, he should even be able to still pull holeshots if he is a good starter.

Put him on the right sized bike and let him learn to ride fast! If he complains that he HAS to have a 250f to race, remind him who's footing the bills.
BobPA wrote:
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to...
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to get good starts, etc. Stop huffing pre mix bro.
How do you think a 62 cc 4 stroke would compare to a 125 two stroke? the 250 f is the worst thing ever for the sport of moto-cross.Its a shame that the powers that be are to STUPID to do anything about it
haber0051
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haber0051 7/2/2014 11:04pm
7/2/2014 11:04pm
Original 44 wrote:
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but maybe I am. My son just turned 14. He is 5' 7" and weighs 110lbs. He is...
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but maybe I am.

My son just turned 14. He is 5' 7" and weighs 110lbs. He is just too big for his 85. I have built him a supermini (super money) and have a new Yamaha YZ125 coming. The 125 is perfect for young kids to learn how to ride a big bike and are still somewhat inexpensive to maintain. The problem is there just isn't to many options when it comes to racing a 125. It seems like kids have to jump right on to a 250F.

Our local tracks run 250f and 125 together in schoolboy. In the 250 classes it's legal to run a 125, 250 and 250f together. The only class for the 125 at Loretta's is Schoolboy1 and Schoolboy2. Why is it that we are not trying to help develop young riders into the bigger classes. I believe this is still one of the reasons that motocross seems to be dying at the amateur level.


When I raced in the 70s and 80s the 125 class was the most packed class at the track. It was because teenagers were racing it.
im in the same boat they really need a 125 class,my son is getting to big for the supermoney . really don't want him hopping on a 250f from a 85 it just seems a little extreme
bd
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bd 7/2/2014 11:08pm
7/2/2014 11:08pm
mxtech1 wrote:
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here) In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no...
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here)

In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no reason a 125 is at a disadvantage. Heck, he should even be able to still pull holeshots if he is a good starter.

Put him on the right sized bike and let him learn to ride fast! If he complains that he HAS to have a 250f to race, remind him who's footing the bills.
BobPA wrote:
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to...
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to get good starts, etc. Stop huffing pre mix bro.
Agree 110% and I am 125T advocate. All being equal with rider "A", rider "A" will be much faster on a 250F.
bd
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bd 7/2/2014 11:10pm
7/2/2014 11:10pm
mxtech1 wrote:
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here) In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no...
If a kid can't win on a 125, he can't win on a 250f (just generalizing here)

In C & B district racing, there's absolutely no reason a 125 is at a disadvantage. Heck, he should even be able to still pull holeshots if he is a good starter.

Put him on the right sized bike and let him learn to ride fast! If he complains that he HAS to have a 250f to race, remind him who's footing the bills.
BobPA wrote:
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to...
Are you kidding me? Have you ridden the bikes? A 250f is wayyyy easier to go fast on, much easier to pass with, much easier to get good starts, etc. Stop huffing pre mix bro.
racin mason wrote:
How do you think a 62 cc 4 stroke would compare to a 125 two stroke? the 250 f is the worst thing ever for the...
How do you think a 62 cc 4 stroke would compare to a 125 two stroke? the 250 f is the worst thing ever for the sport of moto-cross.Its a shame that the powers that be are to STUPID to do anything about it
Disagree. It was very bad that racing bodies and manufacturers did not promote the 125T. That said, the 250F is a viable and exceptional MX weapon.
chump6784
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chump6784 7/3/2014 3:47am
7/3/2014 3:47am
Why not just bore the 125 to a 144? Unless you go around telling everyone that it is a 144 no one would be the wiser and from what I understand, unless you are racing with the pro rules you can run the 144 legally anyway
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 7/3/2014 5:39am
7/3/2014 5:39am
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class.

Halfast816 7/3/2014 5:48am
7/3/2014 5:48am
Bike or the human brain the average mxer uses far less than the full potential of either. If nothing else starting on the 125 is a valuable life lesson. The harder you work the better your results. Young kids react to parental influence. Egos of fathers make it hard to accept junior isn't going to turn pro or make a living. The illusion drives him to want the best for his kid even at the expense of riding time or equipment do to the cash outlay. We did work for a local kid that was fast but nothing phenomenal yet his father would spend piles of money on the latest accoutrements. When told not to waste any more money on go fast stuff and start spending it on fuel to practice he went down the road to another guy that would sell him every gizmo in the Pro Circus catalog. The dad that listened to our advise left the bike stock and maintained it so his boy could practice is now faster than the 'prodigy'. The quick fix isn't always the best fix. Yes more HP will get you better starts but so will better technique through practice. If you can't beat some one on a 125 you need to work harder than them and that ladies and gentlemen is how you get ahead, in racing and in life. Maybe your kid will turn into an upstanding member of society instead of the turds a lot of you are raising.........
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 7/3/2014 8:12am
7/3/2014 8:12am
Halfast816 wrote:
Bike or the human brain the average mxer uses far less than the full potential of either. If nothing else starting on the 125 is a...
Bike or the human brain the average mxer uses far less than the full potential of either. If nothing else starting on the 125 is a valuable life lesson. The harder you work the better your results. Young kids react to parental influence. Egos of fathers make it hard to accept junior isn't going to turn pro or make a living. The illusion drives him to want the best for his kid even at the expense of riding time or equipment do to the cash outlay. We did work for a local kid that was fast but nothing phenomenal yet his father would spend piles of money on the latest accoutrements. When told not to waste any more money on go fast stuff and start spending it on fuel to practice he went down the road to another guy that would sell him every gizmo in the Pro Circus catalog. The dad that listened to our advise left the bike stock and maintained it so his boy could practice is now faster than the 'prodigy'. The quick fix isn't always the best fix. Yes more HP will get you better starts but so will better technique through practice. If you can't beat some one on a 125 you need to work harder than them and that ladies and gentlemen is how you get ahead, in racing and in life. Maybe your kid will turn into an upstanding member of society instead of the turds a lot of you are raising.........
Excellent!!
BobPA
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BobPA 7/3/2014 10:33am
7/3/2014 10:33am
Jakes Dad wrote:
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class. [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SteveinSpringHill/media/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/SteveinSpringHill/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class.

One instance of the thousands proves nothing. You and I both know that a 250f has a large advantage on a start. You are over inflating your kids 3rd place, out of 19, start.
09 YZ250F 7/3/2014 11:09am
7/3/2014 11:09am
Lots of good points in here... And here's my opinion:

When I was 15 I jumped on a brand new leftover 2009 Yamaha YZ250f, I was super pumped. My first ride on it I could barely hang on, it was way too overwhelming of a jump to a 250f. I was stuck with the bike though and I made the best I could out of it. After a season of being uncomfortable and learning how to ride it properly I was finally getting the hang of the thing, I still couldn't get over how heavy it was, that thing would push the front end in the corners and I always rode scared. I was only 120lb's and 5'7'' without gear, so I think it was just too much of a bike for anyone this small. The next year I raced the bike in a small not very competitive race series, my good friend who I also raced against had a CR125. He was always a little bit faster then me but not by much, maybe a second or two a lap. Half way through the race season he switched to a 250f exactly like I had, I couldn't believe how much faster he had gotten. He was beating me by half a track! The transition for him from a 125 to a 250f was crazy, he was just that much faster. Anyways, the year went on and I never improved that summer, I finished 3rd in the standings.

It was now going to be my 3rd year on the 250f, and I had well over 100 hours on it so I figured I would rebuild it, I looked into the cost of doing so and I really just couldn't afford it . My bike was extremely minty, but just had lots of hours on the engine. I ended up selling the bike.

About a week later I was bike shopping once again, I was looking at finding another new 250f and riding it for two years like the other one. While I was doing research about which bikes I could get I just couldn't help but look at some used 2 strokes, hearing that riding a two stroke will make you a better rider, and how they're the perfect transition bike, I just knew a 125 was the bike I should have bought. So after looking around, I found myself two little 125's to take a look at, a 2002 CR 125 and a 2005 YZ 125 with a 144 Athena kit. I ended up getting a super deal on the YZ, I had to do a little bit of work and stuff, but that expected with any used bike. I enjoy working on my bikes so this was a bonus for me haha.

My first ride on the 144 and I was shocked, I couldn't believe how fun and light this bike was, and how I could just turn that throttle and hold it wide open and not feel like I was going to hit the ground, after a few rides I began to get even more comfortable then I was on my 250f. I could hit my corners faster, choose any line I wanted to since the bike was so light, and I could rev that bike to the moon and it was such a dream to ride. I'm already feeling faster on it then I did on my 250f... My race season starts Wednesday the 9th!

In conclusion, a 125 is a bike everyone should own, everyone should have the pleasure of riding that light weight, high revving 2 stroke, theirs nothing else like it, it's just so much FUN.

The pictures are of my 144 when I picked it up, and then a picture of it as it sits now.





Adam43
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Adam43 7/3/2014 11:24am
7/3/2014 11:24am
A kid and his dad used to be able to go racing by spending $1500 on a good used 125.

If I was 14 today there is no way in hell that I would be able to race.

BobPA
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BobPA 7/3/2014 11:58am
7/3/2014 11:58am
Adam43 wrote:
A kid and his dad used to be able to go racing by spending $1500 on a good used 125. If I was 14 today there...
A kid and his dad used to be able to go racing by spending $1500 on a good used 125.

If I was 14 today there is no way in hell that I would be able to race.

Why? You can get a descent 125 around here for 2k or less. Ama, district, entry fees have not gone up an insane amount in the grand scheme of things. Racing has been, and always will be an expensive sport...there is no way around it.
Tokyo_Tiddler
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Tokyo_Tiddler 7/3/2014 1:50pm
7/3/2014 1:50pm
125 2sts are making a huge comeback at my local track. there are many YZ125s suddenly appearing with young riders. They are beating 250Fs and certainly don't seem to have much of a handicap... and by the big grin on their faces, they are having way more fun. I decided to get my son one and told him no more 4 strokes. 125 2 strokes make so much sense for amateur riders.. fun, fast, light, cheap, easy to maintain. Yamaha is really cashing in these days by hanging on to its old 2 stroke line.
mgifracing 7/3/2014 2:49pm
7/3/2014 2:49pm
My son has been wanting a 150r forever. I keep saying no fn way. He's gonna ride the 85 and go to my fleet of 125's until he is old enough to buy his own 4 smoke.

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Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 7/3/2014 3:14pm
7/3/2014 3:14pm
Jakes Dad wrote:
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class. [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SteveinSpringHill/media/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/SteveinSpringHill/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class.

BobPA wrote:
One instance of the thousands proves nothing. You and I both know that a 250f has a large advantage on a start. You are over inflating...
One instance of the thousands proves nothing. You and I both know that a 250f has a large advantage on a start. You are over inflating your kids 3rd place, out of 19, start.
I wish I had the shot of him handle bar to handle bar a couple months back, oh that would be with Freye on his factory KTM.

My point being an experienced kid can be competitive on a 125. And I love to tell the other Dads I don't have more than $2K in that bike against their $8K+ bikes.

Now for all the truth to come out, Jake does have a ride on a 2012 YZ 250F. Not my bike and he has very limited time on it. Anyway he did holeshot and led until 2 corners to go, in his very 1st race on that bike. He likes it and once he gets the engine braking down I think he'll be faster on it.
dss496
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dss496 7/3/2014 6:20pm
7/3/2014 6:20pm
Jakes Dad wrote:
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class. [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/SteveinSpringHill/media/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/SteveinSpringHill/1378749_10151725672333299_1048625321_n_zps0309cd02.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Not competitive? 18 250F's on the line with him on his Suzuki in the Schoolboy class.

BobPA wrote:
One instance of the thousands proves nothing. You and I both know that a 250f has a large advantage on a start. You are over inflating...
One instance of the thousands proves nothing. You and I both know that a 250f has a large advantage on a start. You are over inflating your kids 3rd place, out of 19, start.
So what your saying is that a 250 is faster than a 125. Daaaaannnngit! I didn't know that
Crisp BRAAAP! 7/3/2014 6:30pm
7/3/2014 6:30pm
I am 44 and have ridden since I was 4. Never graduated to anything bigger than a 125. I have ridden a few bigger bikes but don't have as much fun although I am sure I would be fast. I ride to have fun.
ReturnofJorddo 7/3/2014 7:53pm
7/3/2014 7:53pm
Im 17,6'3 and 175lbs without gear and ride an 03 KX125. Im into it for $1500 and I love the bike. I plan on getting 250f or 250 2t this summer but keeping the 125. I love the bike to death, its so fun to ride. I still need to get fully used to being able to hold it wide open in one gear for longer than you can on a 4 stroke (came from 4t trail bikes a couple years ago) but I love it. I plan on practicing on both my 125 and whatever I end up with at the end of the summer and racing the 125 and said newer bike. I know alot of people who race, all of which tell me not to get on a 250f until I can finish mid-pack in Junior (starting beginner next year cause money isnt there now but many friends who i ride with and race say I'd be mid-front pack beginner). They say this because if I get comfortable with railing on a 125, braking later in a corner than a 250f and holding it wide open 24/7, I'll be fast on a 250f from the get go. I've olny ridden 2 250f's before for only a few laps cause I dont want to yard sale other peoples bikes but I instantly felt faster. I found myself lugging it down low in the corners and wide open (just keeping under the limiter) on the straights. I just love the 125 so much, I dont plan on selling it ever. Even if you do get straight to a 250f off minis, buy a cheap blown 125 for $400. New top * bottom end ($500), new bearings ($250) and new plastics ($100) and the bike will be like new, and you'll have a fun as hell bike to ride for right around ~$1000. You cant go wrong there, its a win win.
Flatliner
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Flatliner 7/3/2014 10:24pm
7/3/2014 10:24pm
I'm 225 on a 125. Tons of fun around the track, makes me feel fast which is what I want at 32 years old.
Chu
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Chu 7/3/2014 11:52pm
7/3/2014 11:52pm
CBailey306 wrote:
Couldn't agree more. 125's are hands down the best bikes to learn on and are a very important stepping stone when moving up to big bikes...
Couldn't agree more.
125's are hands down the best bikes to learn on and are a very important stepping stone when moving up to big bikes. They teach you throttle/braking control, corner speed, and how to effectively use a clutch. You cant just put a kid from an 85 to a 250f.
Worst mistake the manufacturer's ever made was discontinuing 125's...
no it was'nt..people voted with their wallets and bought the crap.

They could make a bike that runs on bananas...if pro's rode one then most wannabe's would want one.
Here in the uk it is unbelievable how many spoilt kids have the latest 4/ bike or newest kit, and are completely shit at riding.
Always makes me laugh when a old smoker kills everyone on a practice track.
aFACEdismembered 7/4/2014 8:14am
7/4/2014 8:14am
motoarmageddon wrote:
125s are fun but they aren't competitive in racing. People figure it out the hard way. and yeah they are cheaper to maintain than a 250f...
125s are fun but they aren't competitive in racing. People figure it out the hard way. and yeah they are cheaper to maintain than a 250f, but I have seen how many top ends and clutches mini dads buy for 2 strokes, they are changing top ends like trans oil!
newmann wrote:
Aren't competitive in racing? Racing what, a bike that is 100% larger in displacement and revs to 13,500 rpm stock? Well, I would hope not, otherwise...
Aren't competitive in racing? Racing what, a bike that is 100% larger in displacement and revs to 13,500 rpm stock? Well, I would hope not, otherwise people would realize the 250F is a complete worthless tub o shit and they wouldn't sell at all. The 125 however is a highly competitive bike. Some of the best racing ever in the history of the sport.

But history? Meh....fuck that ~AMA
The RPM thing is a good point. When a bike has double displacement and fires half the time but revs out twice as much it negates any disadvantage that less spark creates. Lower the RPM and up reliability at the same time. That should also lower cost for less F1 type technology to make them rev so high and it might make them play nicer with the 125. I'm dreaming though.

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