Factory teams and tire changes

Edited Date/Time 5/1/2014 2:17pm
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special compound tires that are softer and less durable than what's on the shelf but it would still be interesting to know.

I'm guessing they run a fresh set for the main but does anyone have any idea of how long they will actually use a set for?
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Homey55
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4/30/2014 10:37am
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say that they are "off-the-shelf" tires!

As far as changing tires throughout the day, I'm sure its rider preference but I bet they put on a fresh tire for the main (the factory guys).
Motodave15
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4/30/2014 10:40am
Bro I put on a fresh tire before every practice day
dsmith
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4/30/2014 10:42am
thought I heard reed say after two races(that's 2 sx races/weekends) they are garbage to him...

The Shop

davistld01
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4/30/2014 10:48am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2014 10:49am
dsmith wrote:
thought I heard reed say after two races(that's 2 sx races/weekends) they are garbage to him...
If I had a tire sponsor that gave me piles of whatever tires I wanted whenever I needed them, and I could have a fresh set basically every time I rode/practiced...and was as fast as Reed and I could tell the difference in feel/performance even a slightly worn tire could make...

After two races they would be garbage to me too.
ML512
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4/30/2014 11:32am
Spongebob wrote:
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special...
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special compound tires that are softer and less durable than what's on the shelf but it would still be interesting to know.

I'm guessing they run a fresh set for the main but does anyone have any idea of how long they will actually use a set for?
It differs on the riders, quite a few lock in one tire for the day and choose to work around it, while others change tires throughout the day. Teams work closely with the guys from Dunlop when they do make a decision to change during the day though, also some riders go through tires more quickly then others. As mentioned above, the days of all proto tires is going away, the majority of the field are running production tires. Dunlop is very honest on who is running what, they post a sign at the races every week with what the whole podium ran for tires front and rear (sizing, tires pressure, and compounds).
BAMX
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4/30/2014 11:36am
Homey55 wrote:
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say...
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say that they are "off-the-shelf" tires!

As far as changing tires throughout the day, I'm sure its rider preference but I bet they put on a fresh tire for the main (the factory guys).
Off what shelf?Wink
BobbyM
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4/30/2014 11:48am
Homey55 wrote:
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say...
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say that they are "off-the-shelf" tires!

As far as changing tires throughout the day, I'm sure its rider preference but I bet they put on a fresh tire for the main (the factory guys).
BAMX wrote:
Off what shelf?Wink
The one right above the unobtanium shelf ....lol
SPYGUY
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4/30/2014 11:52am
dsmith wrote:
thought I heard reed say after two races(that's 2 sx races/weekends) they are garbage to him...
I just can't see there being any chance that Reed (or any other top guy) is running the same tire for more than one race.

As for how often they put on a fresh tire when it comes to practices, heats, etc....I'd like to hear this as well.

Do they throw on a brand new tire for a six lap heat race and then another new tire for the main?
Homey55
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4/30/2014 12:54pm
Homey55 wrote:
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say...
Lately, they have been making a point to mention what tire they are using, on the podium, and I'm pretty sure I heard several guys say that they are "off-the-shelf" tires!

As far as changing tires throughout the day, I'm sure its rider preference but I bet they put on a fresh tire for the main (the factory guys).
BAMX wrote:
Off what shelf?Wink
2 years ago, yes, the "other" shelf. But, it seems that Dunlop has changed their philisophy on selling tires and they are trying to point out that there is no more "factory" tire as ML512 has pointed out.

I really don't know any more than what I can read and hear in interviews and that's what it sounds like to me.

Here's an article I found on the subject...

http://www.motorcycle.com/products/dunlop-geomax-mx32-geomax-mx52-review

"While prototypes of the new tires garnered 62 AMA Supercross and Motocross wins in 2013, Dunlop officials will be the first to admit that the MX32 and MX52 are not exact copies of what the top-level pros are running today. There are substantial difference in rubber compound between the production tires and those used by the factory teams–racing is a big part of the R&D process after all. However, privateer pro Weston Peick cracked the top five in the Anaheim III and San Diego rounds of the Monster Energy AMA Supercross Series with off-the-shelf MX32s and MX52s, so they must perform well. After spending the day with Dunlop at Milestone MX Park in Riverside, California, to sample both models, we can say that they are impressive indeed."

As far a 5lbs per tire...no way! If that's true than it's crazy!
philG
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4/30/2014 12:54pm
Id be putting a fresh one on for the timed practice after the free's , and one on for the main too... when tracks start to slick up as the moisture comes out , you gotta have a fresh edge. Those worn tyres will do for free practice the following week, or riding in the week, with the amount of riding they do , they will always get used. No point skimping on rubber.
4/30/2014 1:25pm
Why does the AMA give a shit about fuel but doesn't give a shit about tire compounds?
Falcon
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4/30/2014 1:43pm
It is very likely that the factory bikes have brand new rubber every time they hit the track. They have several sets of wheels with new tires mounted, and all the techs do is change the wheels out between races and practice sessions.

If you saw how busy the Dunlop guys are all day, you'd know what I mean. They are always changing out tires that the mechanics bring over.
mxtech1
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4/30/2014 2:08pm
Not sure about supercross, but for the nationals the first thing I did in the morning was tires. I would take the race bike wheels over to the tire sponsor and they would put on a new set of tires. The tire sponsor would mount whichever tire they felt best for the track conditions and gave me a specific tire pressure front/rear. Typically we would run these tires all day unless we had excessive wear or the rider wanted a different tire.

The tire sponsor always had a technician in the start staging area. They had a list of all of the bikes they had their tires on and each time they came through the staging area the tire technician did a quick visual inspection on the tire condition. The tech kept notes on each rider as they passed and if he saw something he didn't like he would let us know to come back to their rig after exiting the session.

After race day, I would put the race day tires on the wheel set for the practice bike, and then put the worn out practice tires back on the race bike wheels for transporting and then to be disposed back to the tire sponsor on the next race weekend.

I imagine for 90% of the racers with a tire sponsor, their situation is similar to this. Obviously the big name guys are getting more attention and have access to all of the "special" tires. The bigger teams are sending over Mules or wagons filled with wheels to have tires installed. It's not anything to see a big team have a rack of 10-20 wheel sets ready to go with different tire combos.
Robgvx
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4/30/2014 2:40pm
For what it's worth in my day I would use a new front tyre at each GP but a used rear tyre for the two free practices. Then new rears for each of the two timed qualifying sessions and one for each moto. So that would be 1 front and 4 rears per GP. That's of course assuming that I used the same tyres (as in model/type) all weekend. Then those one-race tyres would become the used ones for the next weekend's practice sessions and also non-important races.

Riders like Thorpe would use new rears for every session and probably new fronts for each moto. However I really couldn't see the point in that. Using a new rear tyre just in practice seemed like a waste and fronts really didn't wear to a degree that I could feel.over the course of a weekend. But, if the tyre sponsor is saying that you can then I guess why not?

If conditions were changing or we weren't sure which tyre would work best then that number could double.
4/30/2014 2:56pm
Why does the AMA give a shit about fuel but doesn't give a shit about tire compounds?
Maybe to avoid using nitromethane, which can explode Smile
wow123
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4/30/2014 3:44pm
the only thing I know about tyres

is that for WSB about 12 yrs ago

if you weren't on 'factory tyres' you could never crack better than 7th or 8th

no matter the rider or bike
KMC440
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4/30/2014 4:02pm
Back in the waaaaay distant past a racer put a hole in his piston in the first corner of a race ... the following race the racers in the main were in staging and the ref's pulled everyone's float bowl off the carbs .... well well well .. come to find out there are some pretty exotic fuels that offer a lot more hp for the start that stay down low in the bowl as long as you don't wick the throttle on the sight/intro lap.
ImTheDude
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4/30/2014 4:10pm
Spongebob wrote:
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special...
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special compound tires that are softer and less durable than what's on the shelf but it would still be interesting to know.

I'm guessing they run a fresh set for the main but does anyone have any idea of how long they will actually use a set for?
softer?

yes.

less durable?

not a chance.

quicker wearing for sure.
kaboom645
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4/30/2014 5:19pm
When I was racing professionally I would get a fresh rear tire every race day. At the end of the race day, that rear would go on the practice bike for that week. Save changes in terrain (soft, intermediate, hard pack) I ran the same front tire for a season. Most teams are giving their rider a fresh rear tire every time they hit the track. The front will usually last the full event, save a rider wanting a change to a different tire or compound
GuyB
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4/30/2014 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2014 6:01pm
There was a little mis-info earlier, regarding a five-pound difference for proto tires vs. production tires. I figured that was way off, so after a bit of digging (and help from a friend), here you go...


The five pound claim...not even close! (To get a five difference you may be able to take the largest desert 6-ply desert tire and compare that to one of the lightest 110/90 race spec tires from a few years ago and maybe then you can come up with five pounds.)

In knobby tires, weight mostly depends on the pattern and size of the tire; meaning how many knobs and how big those knobs are, i.e. more material rubber translates to more weight.

In much lesser amounts, the construction can affect the weight but that usually stays within a one-pound variance.

Rear tires, comparing equal sizing, vary about 1.5 pounds covering all patterns regardless of whether it is a race/development tire or production tire.

Many years back and a few product cycles ago this variance was possibly as much as a three-pound range but it is not that way now. For example, the new MX32 and MX52 tires are basically the same weight in all specifications with a few race specs actually being a little bit heavier than production because of a stronger carcass.

The real light weight rear tire that some may be speaking of was a rear tire that was used for quite a few years but 95% of why it was so light was just that it did not have many knobs, so it had far less material. Again, less material = less weight.

The latest tire technology has improved a lot, and the performance differences of race tires vs. production tires is likely far less than it is now.
Crush
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4/30/2014 6:07pm
GuyB wrote:
There was a little mis-info earlier, regarding a five-pound difference for proto tires vs. production tires. I figured that was way off, so after a bit...
There was a little mis-info earlier, regarding a five-pound difference for proto tires vs. production tires. I figured that was way off, so after a bit of digging (and help from a friend), here you go...


The five pound claim...not even close! (To get a five difference you may be able to take the largest desert 6-ply desert tire and compare that to one of the lightest 110/90 race spec tires from a few years ago and maybe then you can come up with five pounds.)

In knobby tires, weight mostly depends on the pattern and size of the tire; meaning how many knobs and how big those knobs are, i.e. more material rubber translates to more weight.

In much lesser amounts, the construction can affect the weight but that usually stays within a one-pound variance.

Rear tires, comparing equal sizing, vary about 1.5 pounds covering all patterns regardless of whether it is a race/development tire or production tire.

Many years back and a few product cycles ago this variance was possibly as much as a three-pound range but it is not that way now. For example, the new MX32 and MX52 tires are basically the same weight in all specifications with a few race specs actually being a little bit heavier than production because of a stronger carcass.

The real light weight rear tire that some may be speaking of was a rear tire that was used for quite a few years but 95% of why it was so light was just that it did not have many knobs, so it had far less material. Again, less material = less weight.

The latest tire technology has improved a lot, and the performance differences of race tires vs. production tires is likely far less than it is now.
JT says your wrong. Pulpmx. Monday night.

Stamp it. (Please don't give me the flick)
Homey55
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4/30/2014 7:42pm
JT is talking 2010, not 2014. There is a difference now...
BobPA
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4/30/2014 9:40pm
KMC440 wrote:
Back in the waaaaay distant past a racer put a hole in his piston in the first corner of a race ... the following race the...
Back in the waaaaay distant past a racer put a hole in his piston in the first corner of a race ... the following race the racers in the main were in staging and the ref's pulled everyone's float bowl off the carbs .... well well well .. come to find out there are some pretty exotic fuels that offer a lot more hp for the start that stay down low in the bowl as long as you don't wick the throttle on the sight/intro lap.
So they checked everyone's carb because a bike blew up?

You must be incredibly stupid to think you could run a sight lap and not have all the fuel in the bowl sucked up...
Jt$
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4/30/2014 10:26pm
2010 and the light tire was the 762.. It was around 10 lbs and the mx51-71 was 14-15 lbs. The 762 doesn't get run in that form anymore but similar tires exist still. It was a huge difference that year though.
4/30/2014 10:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2014 10:30pm
GuyB wrote:
There was a little mis-info earlier, regarding a five-pound difference for proto tires vs. production tires. I figured that was way off, so after a bit...
There was a little mis-info earlier, regarding a five-pound difference for proto tires vs. production tires. I figured that was way off, so after a bit of digging (and help from a friend), here you go...


The five pound claim...not even close! (To get a five difference you may be able to take the largest desert 6-ply desert tire and compare that to one of the lightest 110/90 race spec tires from a few years ago and maybe then you can come up with five pounds.)

In knobby tires, weight mostly depends on the pattern and size of the tire; meaning how many knobs and how big those knobs are, i.e. more material rubber translates to more weight.

In much lesser amounts, the construction can affect the weight but that usually stays within a one-pound variance.

Rear tires, comparing equal sizing, vary about 1.5 pounds covering all patterns regardless of whether it is a race/development tire or production tire.

Many years back and a few product cycles ago this variance was possibly as much as a three-pound range but it is not that way now. For example, the new MX32 and MX52 tires are basically the same weight in all specifications with a few race specs actually being a little bit heavier than production because of a stronger carcass.

The real light weight rear tire that some may be speaking of was a rear tire that was used for quite a few years but 95% of why it was so light was just that it did not have many knobs, so it had far less material. Again, less material = less weight.

The latest tire technology has improved a lot, and the performance differences of race tires vs. production tires is likely far less than it is now.
Why would you delete my post about the 5 lbs?

Why are you calling JT a liar on the internet? I suppose you have had access to and weighed the factory tires vs production ones?

The one thing he could have meant is he could have weighed them as a pair so it's roughly 2.5 lbs per tire but don't come on here like you run the placeLaughing acting like you know what the hell your talking about. Because I will take JTs word over the Master Deleter any day.

Jees have you been drinking this week? First your posting dumbgeon material in the Moto forum now your calling ex champions like JT$ a liar on the internet....

Shame on you....

Lay off the boozeWink
rubarb
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4/30/2014 10:31pm
Nitrogen
BobbyM
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4/30/2014 10:38pm
Spongebob wrote:
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special...
I've always wondered how often the factory teams change tires (for wear not tuning reasons) on a typical SX race day. I know they use special compound tires that are softer and less durable than what's on the shelf but it would still be interesting to know.

I'm guessing they run a fresh set for the main but does anyone have any idea of how long they will actually use a set for?
1: factory mechanics don't change tires...they change wheels.

2: after practice...after heat. New tire everytime the bike hits the track I'd say.
Crush
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4/30/2014 11:18pm
Jt$ wrote:
2010 and the light tire was the 762.. It was around 10 lbs and the mx51-71 was 14-15 lbs. The 762 doesn't get run in that...
2010 and the light tire was the 762.. It was around 10 lbs and the mx51-71 was 14-15 lbs. The 762 doesn't get run in that form anymore but similar tires exist still. It was a huge difference that year though.
Thank you sir!

Tell Chad I'm sorry! haha

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